How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Obama's Team in Action
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Obama's Team(sters) in Action

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


0 posted 09-06-2011 12:06 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Despite President Obama’s repeated claims to change the tone in Washington, the White House had no comment this afternoon after Teamsters Union leader James Hoffa, speaking at an event before President Obama, said of Tea Party activists that, come November, Democrats should “take these sons of "w"itches (my edit) out.”

“We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They’ve got a war, they got a war with us and there’s only going to be one winner. It’s going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We’re going to win that war,” Hoffa told thousands of workers gathered for the annual event organized by the Detroit Labor Council.

“President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march…Everybody here’s got a vote…Let’s take these sons of "w"itches out and give America back to an America where we belong,” he concluded.

The Tea Party Express has called on President Obama to “condemn this inappropriate and uncivil rhetoric,” saying it “has no place in the public forum.”

“Jimmy Hoffa’s remarks are inexcusable and amount to a call for violence on peaceful tea party members, which include many Teamster members,” Tea Party Express chair Amy Kremer said in a written statement.

The president has repeatedly called for increased civility in American politics. “Only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to the challenges of our nation,” the president said in January.

“I do believe there is hope for civility. I do believe there’s hope for progress,” Obama said after last November’s midterm elections.

At the time Obama admitted that he had neglected “some things that matter a lot to people,” including “maintaining a bipartisan tone in Washington,” and that he planned to “redouble my efforts to go back to some of those first principles.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/white-house-declines-to-comment-on-union-leaders-anti-tea-party-rhetoric-at-labor-day-rally-2/

White House: “No comment” after Jimmy Hoffa Jr. urged fellow union thugs to take out Tea Partiers during Obama campaign rally. When he took the stage, President Obama said he was "proud" of Jimmy Hoffa and other labor leaders.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/obama_says_he_is_proud_of_hoffa.html


Can you people really not see the two-faced insincerity of this man in the Oval Office? Are you that politically biased that you can not see what is happening here? Would you have the same passiveness if this were the Tea Party speaking and issuing threats and calling for war?  Maxine Waters calls on the Tea Party to "go to hell". Hoffa calls for  declaring war on the "sons of.....". Obama condemn neither one, while calling for civility. Yes, I can understand standing behind one's party but come on, people. Open you eyes and see what is happening here....and why. This is the man you are proud of...the party in whose integrity you applaud?  Pelosi speaks with trembling lips about reliving the protest eras and riots of the 60's due to Tea Party rhetoric. Does she have anything to say about the rhetoric of her own party? Not a word.....how strange....not!

Yes, everyone ignored a similar post a week ago over this basically same topic and you can ignore this one, too. That doesn't make it go away. It only goes to prove the point...
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


1 posted 09-06-2011 07:48 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

He is silent on these comments just as he has been silent on the flash mobs, the black on white violence in major cities across the country this past summer. His silence, when a well chosen word to those who look up to him would have sent the message to stop the violence, had the opposite effect. They are left with the impression that he condones it, rightly or wrongly. Couple that with the DOJ's policy since Holder took command, that no action will be taken when the victims are white and the perpetrators are black, reinforces the idea that they can act with no negative consequence to themselves.

He is at best a failed leader. At worst he is complicit.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


2 posted 09-06-2011 08:06 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course he condones it, Denise. He encourages it. That's obvious.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


3 posted 09-06-2011 08:32 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Like father . . .


.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


4 posted 09-06-2011 10:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

context please... and yes , Obama does encourage voting.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


5 posted 09-06-2011 10:32 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Mike did quote ABC news, too, LR, and deserves credit for that.

     I'm your basic pacifist, and don't like anybody making threats of violence.  I don't like Jimmy Hoffa suggesting physical violence in a speech.

     That's probably the only thing he said that I disagree with, however.  The Democrats have been taking a lot of bullying for quite a while, and I think the notion of a more militant stance is a good one.  I also like the idea of fewer compromises and harder bargaining positions and if possible more end runs around Republican road blocks.  I think that Hoffa is correct when he says that we didn't start this.  If noted at Republicans are quick to squeal noises that sound like class warfare when Democrats make noises about fighting back, but seem blissfully silent about the attacks they make against the poor, the working class and the middle class folks.  As if these were all in a day's work.

     I also feel that the President is a bit too low key for what the country needs right now, and that it might be useful to push for somebody a bit further left and a bit harder nosed about it.  Hilary is still too far to the right for my taste, but I feel she's got more of an understanding of the sort of toughness that's needed these days.

     That's simply my opinion, though.  


     John, I have absolutely no understanding of what "Like Father..." means in this context.  Most obvious is the possibility of a racial comment, which I would find exceedingly disturbing, so any clarification would be greatly appreciated.  I think Obama did a pretty decent job of walking through a potential political minefield, myself, and that he should gain points for not alienating major chunks of his party support.

      I'm sorry that Republicans were offended by Democratic electioneering.  I disliked the violent comment and condemn it personally; but the event was pretty clearly about getting out the labor vote, and I fail to see what bringing Obama's parentage into the mix has to do with it at all.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


6 posted 09-06-2011 10:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I'll answer for Huan because he is probably busy shaking his head. Put away the race pistols, Bob. He is referring to Hoffa senior and Hoffa junior. They are both the same race, I believe

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (09-06-2011 11:29 PM).]

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


7 posted 09-06-2011 11:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

and I think the notion of a more militant stance is a good one.

Now a militant stance is a good one, Bob?Interesting. Obama called for civility. I'm assuming that is out the window now. When Palin mentioned crosshairs democrats and the lame stream media went bonkers. Hoffa call for war on the SOB's, declaring his army is ready and he doesn't even get questioned on it and  Obama calls him a fine fellow. WHat part of his speech bears any similarity to Obama's call for civility? Close you  eyes for a second, Bob, and imagine Hoffa's words being said by a Republican, referring to democrats. Can you even imagine what you and others would be saying??? Would you be agreeing that a militant stance is the right way to go? WOuld it be getting silence on CNN? You want it both ways, Bob. You want civility when referring to the Tea Party and you want militant when referring to democrat stances. Nothing wrong with wanting it both ways, I suppose......
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


8 posted 09-07-2011 12:18 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Tea Party.... victims....
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


9 posted 09-07-2011 08:14 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

How about a fun video game, reb?
http://mrctv.org/blog/video-game-allows-players-slaughter-tea-party-zombies-sarah-palin-and-bill-oreilly
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


10 posted 09-07-2011 08:33 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sigh.

Again, Michael? Seems to me that when the denouncing shoe was on the other foot, you and Denise were able to find some humor in it.

Still, if that's the route you want to go, instead of asking people to denounce "left-handed men under six-foot tall who steal from church plates and throw beer cans from car windows," we should revisit an old but still very much remembered Bush issue. I would like to see all Republicans who hold office, or wish to ever hold office, publicly and forcefully denounce the way our last Republican President lied to the American people to build support for a war he couldn't otherwise justify. Any politician who doesn't condemn the lies not only condones them, but apparently would be willing to do the same if they thought it was the best way to get what they want. I'm not just being contrary, either, Mike. I sincerely wish all our politicians would officially distance themselves from tactics I consider horrific and evil.

And, as you previously said, Mike: They should condemn Bush's lies every day, just in case someone didn't hear them the first time.  

Or . . . we can both accept that no politician is likely to alienate every supporter who does or says something stupid. Most will continue to turn a blind eye to many things they find objectionable because, not only are there just so many hours in the day, but constantly denouncing everything and everyone who deviates from one's own narrow path doesn't win very many elections. I will be the first to say that's not the way it should be. It's not the ideal we should all struggle to reach. But that's the way the American voter (and human nature) has decided it will be. You and I can but acquiesce to the will of the people.


Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


11 posted 09-07-2011 08:44 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

no politician is likely to alienate every supporter who does or says something stupid. Most will continue to turn a blind eye to many things they find objectionable because, not only are there just so many hours in the day,

I see. Obama saw no reason to call Hoffa on his comments of calling the partiers SOB's or speaking of going to war because there are just so many hours in a day. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


12 posted 09-07-2011 09:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I'll agree that taking time to call down all the kind who say threatening things against the TP WOULD take take a considerable amount of time. Maybe he could do it on the way to the golf course?
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


13 posted 09-07-2011 10:35 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually, I should not be unhappy. Hopefully there are independents and fence-sitters out there who will recall Obama's call for civility, see that he is letting Hoffa's comments pass by without comment while praising him, and ask themselves if there is ANYTHING the man says that is sincere. Hopefully they will take that thought to the polling booth in 2012.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


14 posted 09-07-2011 10:47 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

You sort of missed the point, didn't you, Mike?

Do you agree with me that all politicians, especially Republicans, should publicly condemn the lies that led to the Iraq War? Why haven't they? Is it because all of THEM would also be willing to lie to the American people?

Or is there another reason?

And why haven't YOU condemned left-handed men under six-foot tall who steal from church plates and throw beer cans from car windows today? I'm sure you can squeeze it on your way to the golf course.


Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


15 posted 09-07-2011 12:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     What did Jimmy Hoffa's father have to do with this?  You were talking about what a bad person President Obama was in responses one through four, and Hoffa senior gave every Democrat in the White House a hard time that I can remember.  Bobby Kennedy was investigating him, he and LBJ hated each other's guts.  The teamsters were always giving the Democrats a hard time.  They may come through now, they may not.

     Why would I think you were talking about Jimmy Hoffa's dad?

     You've been spending the past three years making fun of Obama's dad, talking about Kenya, implying that Obama wasn't an American, you spend the first part of this thread talking about what a wretched leader Obama is, you don't specify the referent to the pronoun and suddenly I'm supposed to read your minds?

     If you changed the subject, how am I supposed to know?  Mindreading?  Psychic powers?

     And for that matter, how is Mike supposed to know without a specified referant?  It certainly isn't from context.  The Context of the thread was Obama for all the previous postings.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


16 posted 09-07-2011 12:42 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     In case you missed it, by the way, I did say that I thought threats of violence were wrong, and I denounced them here.  I did that because, oddly enough, I think threats of violence are wrong.  I though threats of violence were wrong when Republicans made them, and I think threats of violence are wrong when Democrats make them.

     I notice you are quick to denounce the Democrats here.

     Where are your denunciations for the Republicans?

     Our handy-dandy dictionary function suggests there are two definitions for the word "Militant," and the first one is "vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause: militant reformers."  It is this meaning that I was selecting in my use of the term because it is fairly close to that of the common phrase "the church militant," signifying the rallying of that non-military force into a more aggressive, active agency in pursuit of what it believes to be moral goals.  I don't confuse political parties, of course, with churches, unlike some churches and some political parties; but I chose to use the metaphor.  Only incidentally did I venture onto the secondary meaning of the term "Militant," which is, "engaged in warfare; fighting."

     It appears that Mike may be confusing "militant" with "military," which is a common error.  They are not the same word; they do not mean the same thing.

     And Mike should remember that I have been critical of The President for years now about his willingness to compromise when compromise was not to my view in the interests of the nation or the party.  I am saying nothing different here.

     My clarification was,     I also feel that the President is a bit too low key for what the country needs right now, and that it might be useful to push for somebody a bit further left and a bit harder nosed about it.  Hilary is still too far to the right for my taste, but I feel she's got more of an understanding of the sort of toughness that's needed these days.  

    

    
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


17 posted 09-07-2011 01:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What has the Tea Party done to become the target of the left? They espouse fiscal responsibility and limited government. Why the vitirol from the left, from "the Tea Party can go to hell", to "the Tea Party wants us hanging from trees", to "let's take those s.o.b's out"? If they philosophically disagree with the beliefs of the Tea Party why not just debate them, present an argument to rebut them? Could it be that they couldn't win an argument on the actual issues?
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


18 posted 09-07-2011 05:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Why haven't I condemned left-handed men under six-foot tall who steal from church plates and throw beer cans from car windows today if I criticized Obama for not objecting to Hoffa calling for war on the SOB's of the Tea Party? Gee, Ron, I'll have to think about that one
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


19 posted 09-07-2011 05:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, sometimes when one makes a boo-boo, as we all do at times, it is better to just say OOPS! instead of trying to do a justification dance which simply makes it more nonsensical. Hoffa senior and Hoffa junior....both presidents of the Teamsters, both big-mouth jerks who use forceful speech to incite the masses. Yes, one can see how Huan's statement refers to the pair of them. How in the world can you connect the possiblity of Obama's father being referred to? How on God's green earth can you come up with anything, anything at all, that can put BO's father in this thread?

MIndreading? Psychic powers? No, Bob, just common sense. How is Mike supposed to know? By looking at it clearly while not looking for something derrogatory that isn't there, and inventing it instead? You say  that was the "most obvious" thing you could come up with. You could not come up with a better example of how your mind takes comments and twists them into something you want them to be. I do not think that one person in one hundred could think that comment referred to Obama senior - except you. Yes, we are all biased in our thinking, but it appears you take it to a level that supercedes reason.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


20 posted 09-07-2011 06:55 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I'm interested in anybody else's point of view here.

     It's entirely possible that I'm off base in my reading.  On the other hand, the referent and the topic was President Obama, and to see Jimmy Hoffa seems a reach for me.


     As for how on Earth I could see President Obama and his father being spoken of here, I detailed that in a prior post.  If you missed that, you might go back and check it out.  It has to do with unspecified pronouns, immediate subject matter and stuff that you have to deal with every day as a poet, and seem to deal with quite competently.  To have you pretend ignorance of these pieces of good clear writing suggests that you are pretending a degree of ignorance that is not yours at all.  Politics can make many of us silly, but I haven't noticed it make anybody ungrammatical who didn't seem to have the issue beforehand.

     You're no prissy schoolmarm when it comes to grammar, but you know about making sure referents are clear, and you know what happens when they aren't.

     I must say, however, that this is the most savage response I've managed to get to a response for clarification in a long time.  My original comment was, in case you've forgotten, a request to John, to clear up my reading or misreading of his statement.  The savage attack on my since that point has made fun of the initial perception, apparently without input from John, and has been a somewhat nasty set of comments on me personally suggesting that my perception was more biased than one out of a hundred people.

     I have to wonder which hundred people would Mike choose for a sample and how he's going to frame the question on the questionnaire, or will he be unknowingly choosing a biased sample himself somehow?  How would he test such a rash assertion, and how would he break down the question operationally so that it might actually be tested formally?

     How does he construe the term "bias" for the purposes of his questionnaire, and does this hold up with other more commonly used definitions of the term?

     Will he fund this research himself, or will he be applying for a grant from some other source?  Will he include the funding sources in his findings, so that we may have some understanding of how these might have biased his research methodology?  Will he be doing his own statistics, or will he be bringing in a research consultant to help him out, and what will he be using for statistical measures of validity?

     Wide as I believe that Mike's knowledge is, intuitive as I believe Mike is and I credit Mike with a great deal of intuitive insight into a lot of things, and I respect that insight though I may not agree with all of it I don't believe that Mike's able to give an answer to my question to John with the degree of surety, simplicity and directness that John himself is able to.  Even if Mike is correct, and he may well be, Mike cannot speak for John any more than I can unless John tells us that we can.

     Even then, I'm dubious.  It's too easy to get something that apparently simple wrong.

     John can stay silent without any bias one way or the other as far as I'm concerned.  Having expressed my concern, unless Mike wants to drag this out further, I have no reason to do so, and John has an absolute right to silence without assumptions being made about that silence as far as I'm concerned.  I'd still like to know, but that's my problem and not John's; I don't need to get an answer here or to get one at all.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


21 posted 09-07-2011 07:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Bob, there will be no more dragging out. It was silly of me to waste even this much time on it. Believe what you like, sir, and have a nice evening.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


22 posted 09-07-2011 08:28 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Thank you, Mike.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Obama's Team in Action Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors