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If You See My Country...

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Denise
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0 posted 06-22-2011 03:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

tell it I want it BACK! NOW!


More Fascism from our ruling elite:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/22/feds-look-to-regul  ate-food-similar-to-tobacco-with-hopes-of-saving-money-on-health-care/

Is this what our armed forces have shed blood for in the past? I don't THINK so. This current administration spits on their sacrifices and memory.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa-swarms-8000-bus-stations-public-transit-  systems-yearly


Huan Yi
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1 posted 06-23-2011 09:18 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


”especially among African-Americans. . . .

The professional campaign is aimed chiefly at African-Americans,”


Racial profiling?


.
Denise
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2 posted 06-23-2011 12:44 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Imagine that.

People eat that cheap, fattening food primarily because that is what they can afford.

We told them we didn't want their stinking healthcare system takeover. This is one reason. More intrusion into people's lives, meaning a loss of individual freedoms.

Huan Yi
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3 posted 06-23-2011 05:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


And what if African-Americans just like to eat;
are not into looking like some French model
walking in Paris?


Have those business devils made food more
fattening than fifty years ago?


.


Ron
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4 posted 06-23-2011 07:24 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Why are the two of you concentrating on Denise's first link? All it appears to do is mandate more information so that people can perhaps maker better choices (they probably won't, but that's another issue entirely).

And yea, Denise, of course it's an intrusion into people's lives. Yes, of course it's a loss of an individual's freedom (to be ignorant). That's what happens when you ask others to take care of you. When your health hits their pocketbooks , they start feeling they should have some say in how you live your life. Frankly, it's hard to argue they're wrong.

To me, the second link is the more troubling.

It demonstrates the inevitable extension of our willingness, since 911, to surrender freedom in hopes of finding greater personal safety. It's important, I think, as the first step on a longer journey as America discovers the real cost of feeling secure.


Bob K
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5 posted 06-23-2011 08:38 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I wish I kept track of my postings better than pretty much not at all.

     I posted a thread a couple of years back about being stopped by ICE people — myself as well as the entire bus of people I was traveling with — between Buffalo and Ithaca New York, both directions.  

     It's interesting to see that there is at least some upset about similar actions today on the part on at least some of the same agencies.  

     What I fail to see today, as I failed to see at that tikme was any concern about the legislation that empowered the government to undertake such measures.  Among that Legislation is The PATRIOT ACT, first disgracefully proposed by people of my own party, and overwhelmingly passed by a bipartisan vote.  This legislation was a bad idea from the beginning whose downsides have become only more obvious as time has continued.  Those Republicans who thought it might provide a useful spine stuffening measure in the War Against Whatever appear to be noticing that it is written in such a way that it may be applied against citizens as well people who we may consider enemies of the moment.

     Those who originally wondered whether it had any downside in terms of loss of personal freedoms might  be at a point where they are more able to consider their initial positions on the matter.  Or perhaps not; there's no telling, really, about what perspective time can bring.
Denise
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6 posted 06-23-2011 10:16 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

More 'information' from the government generally leads to more 'regulation' which generally leads to higher costs to the companies being 'regulated', who then pass the costs onto the consumer and then additional 'sin' taxes being levied. It's more than 'education', it's an attempt at behavioral control through the purse.

Most of us never asked the government to take over healthcare. We never asked the government to take care of us. It's none of their business. We don't want their 'entitlements' or their control tactics in our lives.

Yes, the second link is more outrageous. The TSA is a private organization which has ramped up its outrageous airport molestations of travelers to bus terminals, subways, trains, and traffic stops. Is this the Civilian National Security Force that Obama promised?

serenity blaze
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7 posted 06-23-2011 10:25 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Denise? I'll ask you very gently, because I do love you and value your friendship--do you really think that when you speak for "most of us" you speak for majority?

I worked both sides of the government desk.

I needed help and I was damned glad it was there and I understand now that my taxes will go to pay that help forward.

But I might be a minority.



I just don't know.

And seriously, a transformer blew when I typed that.

wow.
Huan Yi
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8 posted 06-23-2011 10:37 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"It demonstrates the inevitable extension of our willingness, since 911, to surrender freedom in hopes of finding greater personal safety. It's important, I think, as the first step on a longer journey as America discovers the real cost of feeling secure."


The alternative being?


.
Ron
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9 posted 06-23-2011 11:05 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
We never asked the government to take care of us. It's none of their business.

Didn't we, Denise?

Are you one of those rare individuals who advocate refusing help to people who are sick or dying if they are unable to pay? I can understand how you might feel that way, but honestly, I think you'll find you are in a very small minority.

quote:
The TSA is a private organization which has ramped up its outrageous airport molestations of travelers to bus terminals, subways, trains, and traffic stops.

So you don't believe airport security is necessary any more, Denise?

quote:
The alternative being?

The alternative, John, is to accept that ideals rarely come without risk or cost. The alternative is to choose freedom over absolute security, control over comfort, independence over the warm cuddly feeling of living in an old folk's home where everything is always done for us because we can't be bothered to do it ourselves. The alternative is to stop being afraid and start getting mad.

In short, John, the alternative is to do what Americans have been doing for well over 200 years.


Balladeer
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10 posted 06-23-2011 11:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's important, I think, as the first step on a longer journey as America discovers the real cost of feeling secure.

Right you are, Ron. Since the beginning of civilization countries have had to make changes due to changes in the world. That;s where we are now. We have been fortunate to have had the freedoms we have for so long. Now we are basically at war, We are the target of people who want to kill us. Adjustments have to be made. Imagine how much of a chance countries like Israel would have, if it were not for stringent security. The phrase snowball in Hades comes to mind. Whether we like it or not, more controls need to be implemented. The big question is....what controls? Any controls put into place are subject to abuse or misuse. That's the rub.

Personally, I think that those who are offended by the Patriot Act are wrong. It was necessary. Yes, Obama badmouthed it and used getting rid of it as a campaign too but, when he got into the Oval office chair, he kept it going, realizing the necessity of it in today's world.

Face it, people. The internet has changed the world in many ways and not all of them good. Do I think the actions Denise has pointed out are necessary? No, but I believe we are past the day when people say, "I don't have to stand for this. I'm an American!" and acknowledge that we do need enhancements of security. It's not your grandpa's world any longer. Continuing to do what we have done for the past 200 years is a clear path to extinction.

How the government can do that without creating the opportunity for misuse of power is the million dollar question.

Bob K
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11 posted 06-24-2011 12:04 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Apparently Franklin was able to identify the same conflict that Mike is identifying here.  Franklin's solution was to suggest that those who favored surrendering liberties for safety seemed to come up shy on the safety and managed to lose the liberties anyway has always seemed to  be a pretty fair call to me.  Simply because President Obama seems to agree with President Bush on the matter doesn't been adequate reason to accept that Americans should give up their rights to travel within their borders without having to show papers like Germans before the Gestapo.  Nor should Americans have to tolerate having to be stopped at Roadblocks without probable cause for a display of papers and as an excuse for an inspection for drugs and whatever other mischief the government seeks to impose.

     That kind of reasoning is a surrender of civil liberties and is an imposition on our freedoms.  Having been stopped myself, it is a personal imposition on my freedoms.  On two occasions it was done without grace or civility or compassion for myself or for my fellow passengers.  On a third occasion, I was fortunate enough to have the same thing done with some civility and compassion.  While It felt better, I can't say in any real terms that it was better in terms of what the actual events meant in terms of abridgment of freedom.  I suggest that it merely implies that it may be possible to be a more comfortable prisoner in one's own country.

     The theory about being an American is that rights derive from the basic nature of people, not that people are granted rights at the whim of the government, and that they may be arbitrarily taken away as well at the whim of the government, Correct?  That is what John Locke's thinking was, and where the basic thinking around the Constitution came from, isn't it?  As well as some of the other 18th Century Philosophes?

     I'm interested to hear the suggestion that we simply put these aside because they're not modern enough for the internet.  Exactly why the internet means that we should have an authoritarian government is a piece of reasoning that seems to have been skipped over in the earlier discussion, however, and I ask to be forgiven for remaining unconvinced simply at hearing the proposition put forth as though it were obvious.

     It seems more foolish than obvious to me.

     But should anybody tell me why I should give up my freedom because of the internet, and make a solid and compelling case, I will certainly make a point of listening attentively.

     I will also ask the person making the argument to let me have their vote.  If they don't know what to do with their freedom, I have some fairly good ideas, and apparently they seem to be trying to con me out of some fairly basic rights.  They shouldn't mind too much if I return the favor.
Balladeer
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12 posted 06-24-2011 01:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

As I said, people who can't accept that it's not grandpa's, or Franklin's world, are evading reality. It's easy to claim the sky is falling, or that we have lost all of our personal freedoms, based on how we live today. Is checking for weapons at large sporting events or such venues meaning that our personal freedoms are now in the trash? I don't really think so. Nor do I think you, Bob, or anyone else can submit proof that your own personal liberties have been taken away. Ok, you were checked three times in your 50+ years. Live with it. You do not go through checkpoints to get from town to town. The gestapo doesn't knock on your door at midnight for no reason and take you down to "headquarters".To look at life in the US and make references to nazi Germany is silly. As I said before, it's all in the implementation. You felt personally abused when being checked. That;s regrettable and, if so, the people doing the checking should have used methods to not have you feel that way or faced the consequences from their superiors. That doesn't mean the system was wrong, only the people employing it. There is always the danger of that happening. We still have the right, as citizens, to complain or report such actions to authorities, which I assume you must have done.

Those who complain that their rights are being taken away sound like Robert deNiro's character, chanting, "Me? You talking to ME??" They are also loud in screaming how could the government let this happen when incidents like 9-11 occur. Everyone wants security, they just don't want to be inconvenienced by it.

My reference to the internet meant that, thanks to the technology that allows me to send this to you, it is much easier for terrorists to work together and carry out terroristic endeavors. Do you feel that 9-11 would have occurred without the internet? Do you feel that the current uprisings in the middle east could have, either? Terrorists aren't in caves anymore, relying on couriers or telephones to keep in touch or work together. It is all instantaneous and available. That makes threats of terrorist attacks much more likely. That makes terrorist cells working together much easier. If the Indians had had the internet, we could all possibly be living in teepees now. Had Hitler had the internet, we could all be goose-stepping to the tune of Deutchland Uber Allus. The internet has changed the playing field. It's not realistic not to recognize that. I think even Ben Franklin and Thomas Payne might agree.

I repeat, I am not for giving up our personal freedoms but I AM for realizing that we are in a period of time where terrorist groups have vowed to bring our country down, where they have already killed thousands of Americans on our own soil, where they have attempted many such efforts since, like airplane bombings, which we have evaded, largely through intelligence and some very good plain dumb luck. To think there will not be more is foolish. To not try to prevent them, even at the cost of "inconveniencing" someone, would be criminal.
serenity blaze
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13 posted 06-24-2011 02:08 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Hi! I just knew ya'll were worried but I wanted ya'll to know I am fine and dandy.



It sure seemed like Old Testament wrath at the time though. (Well it did.)

g'nite gracie!



(I had lotsa candles, the neighbors had beer)

*blap*
Ron
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14 posted 06-24-2011 05:28 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Glad to hear you're okay, Karen. I thought you were joking about the transformer blowing. It's probably safe to assume it was a coincidence, though?  

quote:
We have been fortunate to have had the freedoms we have for so long. Now we are basically at war, We are the target of people who want to kill us. Adjustments have to be made.

Yea, Mike, like Ben Franklin had such a safe and secure life and all that. His personal safety was probably never at risk, right?  

There have always been people who wanted to kill us, my friend. From Chief Pontiac to General Cornwallis, from Jesse James to Al Capone to David Berkowitz, Americans have rarely been without our fair share of very real, very personal threats. We didn't bow to those threats, though, we didn't cower in fear or abandon the liberties that were so dearly purchased in blood and tears. We sucked it up, 'cause that's what Americans do.

Don't get me wrong.

I agree with you that adjustments have to be made. For example, I fully support increased security at airports. And sorry, Bob, on buses and subways, too. When you crawl on a vehicle with ME, it's going to be at the cost of a little comfort and convenience, 'cause I just plain don't trust you. Deal with it.

My personal lack of trust, however, doesn't give me the right to infringe on your personal liberties. Patting you down or scanning your shoes when you board a public transport vehicle is one thing. Doing it when you crawl into your own car is another matter entirely. Taping private conversation without due process is wrong. And when I stop scanning your shoes for explosives and start looking for drugs or immigration papers, I've crossed the line from "adjustments" to undue search and seizure.

It's okay to be afraid. It's not okay to panic, though, and I think much of the Patriot Act is far too close to panic mode. Adjustments can be made without surrendering the protections afforded us by the Constitution. Yea, security is easier when personal liberty can be ignored. And the most efficient form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. I don't think either option is an acceptable risk, though.

Unfortunately, America disagreed with me. The Patriot Act was passed and the risk was taken. Denise's second link, I think, epitomizes that risk. We gave 'em an inch. Be well assured they will try to take a mile.


Denise
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15 posted 06-24-2011 06:16 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The majority I was speaking of, Karen, were the ones voicing their opinions against the government takeover of healthcare.

No, Ron, I'm not one of those who would deny government care to the sick and dying. That's called a safety net. That's a far cry from what the government has become today.

No, I'm not against airport security. I am against molestation.
Huan Yi
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16 posted 06-24-2011 06:35 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"The alternative, John, is to accept that ideals rarely come without risk or cost. "The alternative is to choose freedom over absolute security, control over comfort, independence over the warm cuddly feeling of living in an old folk's home where everything is always done for us because we can't be bothered to do it ourselves. The alternative is to stop being afraid and start getting mad."


And what are the chances of that?

Mad at who?

.
Denise
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17 posted 06-24-2011 08:23 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Bob, our rights don't derive from the basic nature of people, but are 'endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable (unable to be sold, transferred or revoked) rights...'

But you are right that they don't come from government. The Bill of Rights doesn't grant us our rights, it merely acknowledges those rights.

Ron
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18 posted 06-24-2011 08:45 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
No, Ron, I'm not one of those who would deny government care to the sick and dying. That's called a safety net.

Did you really think the people paying for your safety net wouldn't want some voice in how and when it's going to be used? Your safety net means that people who are sick and dying because they don't know how to take care of themselves become everyone's problem.

I firmly believe, Denise, that every American has a right to be an idiot if that's what they truly want. I wouldn't dream of interfering with that right . . . UNTIL the cost of their idiocy starts coming out of my pocket. If they can't pay for their mistakes they lose the right to make those mistakes without interference. It's just a slightly different twist on the old saw, Denise: Their right to swing a fist ends where my nose begins.

If you want health care to be a completely private affair, Denise, then you have to be willing to make it a completely private affair. I don't think you're cold hearted enough to do that. I would hope no one is.

quote:
No, I'm not against airport security. I am against molestation.

What you're saying, Denise, is that you want the security but want to be the one to determine how it is applied. I suspect that's not a bad paying job if you can get it.

I'm not sure we can really blame them, Denise; it's probably just human nature to try to take that mile. We should remember that the next time we get scared enough to give them an inch?

quote:
And what are the chances of that?

Fifty years ago, John, it would have been inevitable. Now? You tell me.


Balladeer
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19 posted 06-24-2011 11:13 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

There have always been people who wanted to kill us, my friend. From Chief Pontiac to General Cornwallis, from Jesse James to Al Capone to David Berkowitz, Americans have rarely been without our fair share of very real, very personal threats. We didn't bow to those threats, though, we didn't cower in fear or abandon the liberties that were so dearly purchased in blood and tears. We sucked it up, 'cause that's what Americans do.

True enough, Ron, but will refer you to my internet point. Never has it been easier. Never had the “bad guys” had such ease of communication or synchronization, just as the uprisings as Syria and Libya were facilitated and made possible by  the internet. Ben Franklin didn’t have to deal with that. Never has a terrorist organization been able to have contact with followers around the world in the blink of a keystroke. I consider this, by, far, to be the most dangerous time to date.

Patting you down or scanning your shoes when you board a public transport vehicle is one thing. Doing it when you crawl into your own car is another matter entirely. Taping private conversation without due process is wrong. And when I stop scanning your shoes for explosives and start looking for drugs or immigration papers, I've crossed the line from "adjustments" to undue search and seizure.

Again,I agree….and I feel that, were we ever to reach that point, the public would rebel. We are not at that point and to make the case that we may get there based on the actions taken today has no basis in reality. It’s like saying, “A policeman can ask for my name but he can’t ask for my birthday, bank account number, social security card, oe wife’s measurements.” Well, he’s not so why assume he will just because he can ask for your name? As I stated earlier, it’s not the controls but the abuse of controls we need to be concerned about.


Americans have rarely been without our fair share of very real, very personal threats. We didn't bow to those threats, though, we didn't cower in fear or abandon the liberties that were so dearly purchased in blood and tears. We sucked it up, 'cause that's what Americans do.


That’s right. There is no better example of that than how we handled ourselves after 9/11. We have not cowered in fear, nor have we abandoned liberties. We sucked it up and moved forward. Interestingly enough, by every survey or poll I have seen, Americans fully supported the Patriot Act with regards to wire-tapping and keeping an eye on persons or organizations that the government felt had possible ties to terrorist organizations. To me it would be insane not to. To have persons in the US that have cast reasonable suspicions that they may be involved in activities detrimental to the US, have the capability of monitoring their overseas connections, and not doing so would be inane. This knee-jerk reaction that it will carry over to granny sharing her recipes with the neighbors is just silly. Law enforcement agencies have used wire-tapping for many, many years. Police have gone undercover, wired. Do we then say that, wow, if they do that, they may just start wiring every house in the country and our personal liberties are out the window? Of course not.  I don’t see the “panic” mode you refer to. If you do, perhaps you can point it out to me.
Denise
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20 posted 06-24-2011 12:14 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Getting sick and dying is part of the human condition. One doesn't have to necessarily engage in unhealthy behavior to fall victim to either one. And someone doesn't deserve to have the government take away their liberties because they are poor and can't afford insurance of their own and have to avail themselves of a safety net.

I think there are abuses going on right now with the TSA. First with the outrageous physical molesting of people, putting their hands up bras, down pants, etc., and body scans that are a virtual strip search at the airports and now with their expanding their 'operations' to train, bus, subway, and roadside traffic stops. It's insane, degrading, dehumanizing, and it is way over the line to be considered appropriate 'security' measures.
serenity blaze
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21 posted 06-24-2011 03:03 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It was a coincidence, but coincidences are awesomely cool in their serendipity.

I love the stuff, m'self.

And just note how things turned out--

"I had lotsa candles, the neighbors had beer"

and that's how community works.

That's the America I know, Denise.

But I have lived life on that downside of trickle down, too. Bartering and community has been essential for me. And paying stuff forward is pretty much all I have to give...

*sad shrug*

I'm sorry you're so unhappy, lovie.

Truly I am.

(And thanks Ron)
Denise
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22 posted 06-24-2011 06:22 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks Karen. Yes, community is important. Most of us have benefited from our neighbors and vice-versa. That's how it should be, private citizens coming together to help each other. But community is not big government. The problems start when 'they' try to 'help'.

I'm not unhappy. I am alarmed at what I see happening in our country. Hopefully soon more people will have their eyes opened before we don't have a country worth having any more.

serenity blaze
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23 posted 06-24-2011 07:10 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I'm happier knowing you're not unhappy.

And forgive me for dwelling on my little story of coincidence last night--I know, I know, I'm notoriously self-absorbed. *smile* But I happen to be the only instrument I have to process information so not acknowledging myself seems ridiculous.

Now to address your preceding post?

When "they" try to help?

Please smile with me as I relate this- while the lights were out and we were drinking that beer fast so it wouldn't get hot? Entergy was busy, on the way, and by the time they got to us? We were a teeny bit tipsy, and the workers had trouble finding the source of the  outage. That's because the blown transformer was hidden in one of the few trees that survived Katrina. So me and my neighbor stood on my front lawn, and stood in hunting dog "point" posture--wagging our fifty year old tails. (*wince* I hope that's not on youtube.)

My point is, though, that there is now a stricter code enforcement regarding trees and other potential storm hazards in the New Orleans metro area.

We can plant trees in our yard, but not under power lines.

A wise decision that some might object infringes on their freedom to hug trees, but I happen to hug trees and appreciate the stricter enforcement of code that benefits the entire community.

I hope that helps. (and yes'm, I know I could be more serious and make my points without resorting to anecdote, but I don't know how to not be me--I tried and failed miserably.)



Be happy.
Bob K
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24 posted 06-24-2011 07:53 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     I was talking specifically about the Constitution, Denise, if you’ll check my posting.  The Constitution, if you have a quick reviewing look, is rooted firmly in the preamble, which in essence, states in a nutshell, the presuppositions involved:

     “Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

     As you can see, the Constitution begins with “We the People,” not only figuratively but quite literally.  Everything that follows is set up grammatically and apparently legally as well from what “We the People” “do ordain and establish.”

     The quote that you offered above is from the Declaration of Independence, also a splendid document, but not the document I was speaking about, and not one with the same place in our history.  It could support, for example, The Articles of Confederation, which did not work and which were put aside as well as The Constitution, which has been reasonably robust.

     Rather than suggesting that I know more than I do about the subject, I have a suggestion which might be of some interest.  While doing some browsing from my reply to you, I ran across a book that seems to be reasonably new and reasonably well reviewed by a guy that seems to be a generally well regarded expert in the field.  Here’s the listing for it.
http://www.amazon.com/Novus-Ordo-Seclorum-Intellectual-Constitution/dp/0700603115

     I thought that it might be fun to either buy a copy or get a copy on interlibrary loan and read it together, however many of us want to have a look.  Whatever it says has got to disagree with something each of us believes in some way or another, and will probably agree with other things we do believe.  None of us have to end up agreeing with everything the guy says, or even anything he says; but it’s bound to challenge all of us in some way or another.

     Because it’s probably available on interlibrary loan from someplace, money doesn’t have to be an issue.

     I know it’s an unusual notion, but what do people think?  If I learn something new, it’ll probably be worth it, so I’ll probably do it anyway.

     Have a look at some of the reviews further down the page for a more detailed idea of what it seems to be about.



          
 
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