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Passions in Poetry

Right to Know

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Huan Yi
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0 posted 06-05-2011 09:38 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“But by far the biggest impact has been on the debate over the public's right to know.

Outsiders almost unanimously take the view that the Strauss-Kahn affair is proof of a shameful dereliction of duty on the part of French journalism.

Mr Strauss-Kahn's predatory attitude to women was well-known to the Paris media, the argument goes, but went unreported because of a tacit collusion with the political elite.”

As in JFK


“Most people agree that national newspapers should take a tougher line towards authority - and that the web of interests linking journalists and politicians is harmful to democracy.

But there remains an extremely resilient strand of thought, which resists any move towards an information free-for-all a la Anglo-Saxon.

In the view of the overwhelming majority, the right to privacy is sacrosanct.

And even if the Strauss-Kahn fiasco shows the risks of taking this principle too far, this is preferable to the opposite: a moralising, tabloid culture which (for the French) is the ghastly reality in the UK and the US.”


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13641624


As in John Edwards


.


Bob K
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1 posted 06-06-2011 08:58 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I find it difficult to see whether the subject here is the trouble that a French politician has when his actions overseas run into a different cultural mindset than the one that he is used to at home, or whether it is the actions of a liberal U.S. politician who was processed and rendered by our domestic mores.

     If it was Senator Edwards, he was a fool who is still attempting to recoup what dignity and reputation he may have available to him.  I feel his actions were additionally sad and perhaps tragic, perhaps amounting to hamartic; and that he had some potentially visionary leadership ability that was lost to his party in the process.  Perhaps I'm wrong.

     If John was talking about Strauss-Kahn and the distinctive embellishments of French culture, I cannot judge their value to the French themselves.  Mr. Strauss-Kahn did seem to show an interesting blindness, however, in assuming that the rules that apply in Paris must apply in other places as well; and that other places actually might attempt to assert their news organizations and their legal capabilities in such a way that the reports might be distinct enough and loud enough to reach French ears.
Balladeer
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2 posted 06-06-2011 09:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Rape is a different cultural mindset?? Interesting take....
Balladeer
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3 posted 06-07-2011 07:37 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Btw, my comment does not suggest Bob has that mindset…..rather DSK and the French public, in general, based on the following excerpts.

I find it difficult to see whether the subject here is the trouble that a French politician has when his actions overseas run into a different cultural mindset than the one that he is used to at home,

Mr. Strauss-Kahn did seem to show an interesting blindness, however, in assuming that the rules that apply in Paris must apply in other places as well;


No,  he has not been found guilty yet but the evidence seems to be pretty overwhelming. For the French to complain that he is getting shoddy treatment or for him to complain  that it’s all politically motivated and the result of a “different cultural mindset” is ludicrous, akin to O.J.  claiming that a double homicide attributed to him was only because he was black. Hmmm….maybe that’s why he is using it, since it worked for the Juice.


Bob K
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4 posted 06-07-2011 05:39 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Thanks, Mike.  I agree.

     As far as I know there was no mention of an actual rape in the papers.,  Mention of an actual victim according to New York law would be pretty difficult anyway, and I made a point of not using the word.

     From what I did catch on the news during my trip, I heard that Strauss-Kahn set off a whole wave of upset back in France, poilarizing opinion there.  Did anybodyt hear anything about that?
Ron
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5 posted 06-07-2011 06:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
As far as I know there was no mention of an actual rape in the papers.



http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Strauss-Kahn+attempted+rape

Balladeer
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6 posted 06-07-2011 06:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Rape and charges of sexual assault (rape) were certainly mentioned in the papers, Bob.

PARIS — The new lawyer for the maid accusing Dominique Strauss-Kahn of attempted rape appealed Tuesday to "any woman" who was assaulted by the fallen IMF chief to contact him.
"If there is any woman out there, whether in France or in Africa, who have been sexually assaulted or sexually abused by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, I ask them to please call me to contact me," Kenneth Thompson told France 2.
Thompson announced his role in the case on Monday outside the Manhattan courthouse where Strauss-Kahn had just pleaded not guilty to the alleged sex attack against the maid who was cleaning his New York hotel room on May 14.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jTXtdHplj12_rGVQkq5Cvm5KZyZQ?docId=CNG.5c44c5b3fd006a7d0117d0dbdf4c58f1.271

Dominique Strauss-Kahn denies all seven criminal charges relating to his alleged sexual assault of a hotel chambermaid at the Sofitel on May 14. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/

Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who was once a contender to be president of France, pleaded not guilty today to charges that he sexually assaulted a New York hotel maid, but a lawyer for the woman vowed that she would take the witness stand and "tell the world" what he allegedly did to her. http://abcnews.go.com/US/dominique-strauss-kahn-pleads-guilty-sexual-assault-charge/story?id=13768569
Balladeer
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7 posted 06-07-2011 06:16 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

As far as French feelings, you can go here, Bob..
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/world/europe/29france.html
Bob K
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8 posted 06-07-2011 09:44 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     You might google the distinction between "sexual assault" and "rape," guys.  The law makes a distinction, and it should.  Both are loathsome, to my mind, but they are different.  To my mind at least rape is significantly more severe and is far more likely to end in some sort of tissue damage.  Check it out for yourselves.

     Ron, I can't get your link for some reason.  I'll give it another shot later.

     In looking at what you have posted I see:
quote:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Strauss-Kahn+attempted+rape



     The term used here is "attempted rape" and not "rape".

quote:


Rape and charges of sexual assault (rape) were certainly mentioned in the papers, Bob.

PARIS — The new lawyer for the maid accusing Dominique Strauss-Kahn of attempted rape appealed Tuesday to "any woman" who was assaulted by the fallen IMF chief to contact him.

"If there is any woman out there, whether in France or in Africa, who have been sexually assaulted or sexually abused by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, I ask them to please call me to contact me," Kenneth Thompson told France 2.
Thompson announced his role in the case on Monday outside the Manhattan courthouse where Strauss-Kahn had just pleaded not guilty to the alleged sex attack against the maid who was cleaning his New York hotel room on May 14.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jTXtdHplj12_rGVQkq5Cvm5KZyZQ?docId=CNG.5c44c5b3fd006a7d0117d0dbdf4c58f1.271




     In paragraph one, the phrase used is "attempted rape," and not "rape."  In paragraph two, the lawyer puts forward a request for information.  Such tactics are regularly used in legal wrangling, and are not legal charges.  They are, however often seen as smear tactics.  Even so, the lawyer does not request information on "rapes."  His phrases are "sexually assaulted" or "sexually abused," which do not exceed the severity of the actual charges.

     When the actual news source reports the situation, they are much more careful to get the thing nailed down correctly:  They say, "Strauss-Kahn had just pleaded not guilty to the alleged sex attack."  There was an attack of a sexual nature.  It was an allegation.  There was no mention of a rape.  And Strauss-Kahn has denied it.

quote:

Dominique Strauss-Kahn denies all seven criminal charges relating to his alleged sexual assault of a hotel chambermaid at the Sofitel on May 14. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/



     Again, what is reported is a "sexual assault," and not a "rape."

quote:

Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who was once a contender to be president of France, pleaded not guilty today to charges that he sexually assaulted a New York hotel maid, but a lawyer for the woman vowed that she would take the witness stand and "tell the world" what he allegedly did to her. http://abcnews.go.com/US/dominique-strauss-kahn-pleads-guilty-sexual-assault-charge/story?id=13768569



     Once again, the allegation is of "sexual assault."  "Rape" is not mentioned.

     Both are loathsome.  If proven, both should be punished.  It's a good thing that somebody with this much power can be tried for sexual assault.  It seems likely that the prosecutor feels that there is enough evidence to offer a decent chance for conviction, otherwise the trial would be an expensive and obvious waste of money.  By the same logic, it seems likely that if the prosecutor felt there was evidence to support a rape charge, one would have been filed as well.  It would look better for the prosecutor.

     No actual rape charges, sufficient actual evidence of rape is unlikely to be there.  The Prosecutor is going to have to work to convict on sexual assault, and is starting pre-courtroom antics very early in the hope of  swaying the jury pool.

     That's at least the sense that I make out of it.
     You might google the distinction between "sexual assault" and "rape," guys.  The law makes a distinction, and it should.  Both are loathsome, to my mind, but they are different.  To my mind at least rape is significantly more severe and is far more likely to end in some sort of tissue damage.  Check it out for yourselves.

     Ron, I can't get your link for some reason.  I'll give it another shot later.

[This message has been edited by Bob K (06-07-2011 10:21 PM).]

 
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