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The big lie that Obama can't lead is crumbling

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moonbeam
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0 posted 05-30-2011 05:15 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

This article pretty much summarises what I've been banging on about for months.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Walter-Rodgers/201 1/0527/The-big-lie-that-Obama-can-t-lead-is-crumbling/%28page%29/2

In summary:

"The big lie that Obama can't lead is crumbling

Prizing bravado, we’ve undervalued President Obama's brand of quiet competence."


and:

"Some of this maligning simply reflects the same savage partisan attacks leveled against every president (except Ronald Reagan) since Watergate. Some of it reflects darker bigotry toward Mr. Obama. But it also shows our outdated and wrongheaded notions of leadership."

Those two statements imo go to the heart of why some Americans just can't stand Obama or handle his popularity.

In this very forum, let alone all over the right wing media, the notion has been put about that Obama is an "embarrassment" a "bumbling fool".  Peculiar that, when most of the civilised world thinks he is a magnificent statesman.

I think right wing America need to wake up to the fact that they are the minority - the odd ones out in the world, living in the past in an era of machismo all-American brashness where the competence of a President is measured by the size and brassiness of the bike he/she rides.

Obama to me marks a "last chance" for America to avoid the clutches of historical precedent and save itself from the fate of all over-confident Empires.  Is the US as Biden boasts "the greatest nation on the face of the earth".  Maybe.  Maybe by some measures.  But it sure as hell won't be much longer if the Palin tea party gains a foothold in power.

Obama has demonstrated how power and influence should and can be used to help to influence the future.  Quiet competence and humility are more potent weapons than any amount of loud posturing and power boasts.

Hopefully there will be sufficient people in the US who can see that to gain him an further term.

............

This:
http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpres s.com/2011/05/21/the-difference-between-sarah-palin-allen-west-and-barack-obama-in-pictures/

says it all really.

A picture tells a thousand words.

Incredibly the people on this site are actually celebrating the gas guzzling macho idiotic antics of Palin and West - while denigrating the sober pictures of Obama on a bike.

Yep, god help us if these people get to choose your next President.  
Balladeer
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1 posted 05-30-2011 07:46 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Incredibly there are people on this site  using phrases like the gas guzzling macho idiotic antics of Palin and West and thus erasing any creditability they are trying to achieve. Incredibly there are people on this site who believe that anyone against Obama and his policies are hate-mongers and bigots and not just people who believe his policies are damaging to the country.

I think everyone believes Obama can lead. After all, he has led us into the biggest national debt in the country's history. Nice going, Barack
moonbeam
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2 posted 05-30-2011 08:12 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Well Mike, you have a perfect right not to answer a single one of the points made in the article, or even to address the point that there may be something wrong when people ridicule a President for riding a bike while praising his opponents for behaving irresponsibly.  People will have to form their own judgements about your stance.

I think the writer was exactly right when he said, "American culture mistakenly prizes bravado and arrogance as sure signs of leadership".  The photos pretty much say it all too.

And there was I thinking that the debt originated with the Republicans leaving this President the near impossible task of digging the country out of the mess they got it into.  Oh well, silly moi - it was all Barack's fault obviously.
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3 posted 05-30-2011 09:29 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No  need to apologize, moonbeam. I wouldn't expect your bias to head in any other direction. Happy Memorial Day.
moonbeam
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4 posted 05-30-2011 01:33 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

And to you Mike.  I was just listening to the 6 o' clock news and hear that Obama has appointed Army Gen. Martin Dempsey as his new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  A "combat tested" officer.  Combat tested recently in Iraq.  It's already getting a good reception, and sounds like yet another good decision.

What was the national debt when Bush left office by the way?

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5 posted 05-30-2011 02:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I don't understand. You refer to the mess Bush left the country in and the debt he piled up and you don't know what it is? I suggest you find out if you want to make such statements.

As far as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs being combat tested, I can't readily recall one who hasn't been.
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6 posted 05-30-2011 02:32 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, I'll help you out, Moonbeam.


09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005  7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004  7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003  6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002  6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001  5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000  5,674,178,209,886.86

Bottom line? When Bush left it was 10,024,724,896,912.49. After the first two years of Obama it was 13,561,623,030,891.79...without pulling out my calculator that's around a 30-35% raise.

Whereas, from 2000 - 2008 the average in increase was 500 billion per year,from 2008 to 2009 it increased close to one trillion 900 billion. From 2009 to 2010 it increased over one trillion 600 billion.

SInce the democrats took control of congress in  2006 the debt has gone from 8 1/2 trillion to 13 1/2 trillion, an increase of close to 60%.

We're not even taking into account yet the incredible cost of implimenting Obamacare.


Heading for golf...have a good day.  
Uncas
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7 posted 05-30-2011 04:38 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
from 2008 to 2009 it increased close to one trillion 900 billion. From 2009 to 2010 it increased over one trillion 600 billion.


Interesting.

According to your figures Mike the Bush budget (2008/2009) raised US debt by one trillion 900 billion and Obama reduced that by 233 billion in his first budget (2009/10).

moonbeam
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8 posted 05-30-2011 04:50 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

No I didn't know the precise figure, I did however know that Obama inherited a mountain of debt, but more important a situation that was naturally dynamic with the dynamics pushing the debt skyward thanks to Bush (not that he had much choice in fairness).  Much the same situation as Brown handed to Cameron over here.

He (Obama) had a choice, he could have followed the course adopted by our Tory government of restricting expenditure wherever possible, or the opposite course advocated by Brown and his outgoing cronies, of encouraging growth by spending.  

Time will tell which course was/is right - maybe both are potentially workable.  Maybe, as some economists argue, there is no "right", there is only tinkering, and recovery in fact depends upon physiological factors which cannot be influenced by fiscal or monetary manipulation.

I'm suggesting that, if the best you can do is point the finger at Obama for increasing debt, that is, firstly a rather lame accusation when we don't yet know the outcome of his policy, and secondly, rather missing the much bigger point, that it was the previous administration and the world recession that forced unenviable choices.  In other words, he's doing his best to unwind the messes of his predecessors, and the jury is out.

Nice to see you aren't castigating him for his choice of top brass.    
Denise
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9 posted 05-30-2011 05:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

We're living his outcome, moonbeam. We're hurting bad and things get worse every day. We are forced to practice austerity measures in our household budgets, but the government seems to think it is exempt from the suffering that their policies inflict on us.

Uncas
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10 posted 05-30-2011 07:04 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
We are forced to practice austerity measures


I agree, the move towards austerity measures while still in a recession is crazy economics. What's even crazier is that both the Republican party and the Tea party plan to introduce even more austerity measures - the same type of austerity measures that are failing miserably in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain.

.
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11 posted 05-30-2011 08:03 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Denise, you're talking to someone who can bathe in  the glow Of Obama's charisma without having to live with the consequences of Obama's actions. Nice work if you can get it.

In other words, he's doing his best to unwind the messes of his predecessors, and the jury is out.

He's done nothing more than multiply the messes. The "blame Bush" chant is an excuse that's not doing too well these days. He's had the big chair for a couple of years now with nothing to show for it than more debt and a higher unemployment rate. We can all cry for the poor fellow who inherited such a mess, but he's the one who said "Yes, I can!" He's the one who looked at the situation and said he had the answers. Now, two years later with nothing to show for bravado  talk, all he and people like you can come up with is "Bush's fault." That dog ain't huntin' any more.
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12 posted 05-30-2011 08:31 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
all he and people like you can come up with is "Bush's fault." That dog ain't huntin' any more.


I don’t get it Mike, given the figures you supplied  how can you not believe Bush created a heap of debt for Obama to deal with? Or are you saying that the debt created under Bush was somebody else’s fault? If so whose fault was it?

.
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13 posted 05-30-2011 10:19 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

He's not dealing with it very well, Uncas. He's making things worse. Ask any American who isn't sitting in his parents' basement blogging for media matters, you know, the people who actually have to pay the bills to run a household and put gas in the car to get to work, if they still have a job to go to.
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09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49

According to your figures Mike the Bush budget (2008/2009) raised US debt by one trillion 900 billion and Obama reduced that by 233 billion in his first budget (2009/10).


Obviously, I must be missing something very simple here but I don't see how going from 11.9 trillion to 13.5 trillion is a reduction of 233 billion.

Second, we have heard ad nauseum about "the past 10 years" as being when the ecomomy went to hell and spending spiraled out of control and yet  one can see that the first 6 years of Bush were standard years with a reasonably good economy, even more so by tossing in the incredible  losses incurred by 9/11. The last two years was when the increases jumped.

Interestingly enough, the last two years of his term was when democrats took control of congress. Do we ever hear from people like Uncas that it was the two years  in which democrats ran congress that things went downhill? Nope, we only hear it was the last two years of Bush.

I've earned one thing for sure in the many conversations we have had here... if there is a republican president and a democratic congress, it's the president's fault when things go awry. If there is a democratic president and a republican congress, it's congress's fault. Funny how it works that way.....

Goes to show how important the budget is to a democratic congress when they didn't even pass one last year. I can understand why, since one could have put restrictions on Obama's free-spending ways so they didn't even bother.

Ron
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quote:
Denise, you're talking to someone who can bathe in  the glow Of Obama's charisma without having to live with the consequences of Obama's actions.

Mike, that would have to be someone living on a different planet.

quote:
Ask any American who isn't sitting in his parents' basement ...

Denise, President Obama's current Approval Ratings from Gallup would indicate there must be a LOT of people still living in their parent's basement.

quote:
We're hurting bad and things get worse every day. We are forced to practice austerity measures in our household budgets, but the government seems to think it is exempt from the suffering that their policies inflict on us.

Consumers have little choice but to practice austerity in tough times, Denise. That's what makes them tough times, and it's exactly why recessions feed on themselves, becoming worse instead of getting better. It's a spiral too many homeless people know on a first hand basis.

Why? Because consumers, by and large, only spend money. That's the paradigm where they live, so it's only natural that every government expenditure they see is automatically labeled spending.

Businesses, unlike most consumers, don't just spend money. They also have to be willing to invest it. Spending is not the same as investing, although certainly both can be done well or either can be done poorly. The devil, as always, is in the details.

Do we really want our government to be just a consumer? Or do we want it to invest in the future of America? Anyone who advocates a tightening of government "spending" in tough times simply hasn't looked very closely at history. Deficit spending is the only viable answer to a recession. Period. Any alternative to deficit spending has historically and inevitably led to a deepening of the recession. That's not theory, folks, that's history.

Investment, I believe, has to be a part of government strategy. Which doesn't mean that I have to agree with every investment government chooses to make. The devil, again, is in the details. Voters, I think, should start concentrating on those details, analyzing the Return on Investment like the shareholders they truly are, and stop thinking like consumers.


Denise
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16 posted 05-31-2011 08:15 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

His ratings regarding the economy are not that rosey, Ron. His overall rating includes those people who seem to think he is such a charming fellow!
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/no-bounce-for-president-obama-on-economic-job-ratings-122492523.html
Ron
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Okay, Denise. We'll let you pick the poll.

So you're contention then is that 32 percent of all Americans live in their parent's basement? LOL.
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18 posted 05-31-2011 02:10 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, not at all, Ron, just showing that his overall rating is much higher than his grade on dealing with the economy. The 32% probably includes those in their parent's basements plus the hardcore Democrat older population who would give him good marks no matter what he does.  
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And how much of the negative rating, Denise, do you think comes from the hardcore Republicans who will continue to give him bad marks no matter what he does?
Uncas
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20 posted 05-31-2011 02:35 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Obviously, I must be missing something very simple here but I don't see how going from 11.9 trillion to 13.5 trillion is a reduction of 233 billion.


It's a reduction in accrued debt Mike.

In 2007/2008 the Bush budget added 1.017 trillion to the US national debt
In 2008/2009 the Bush budget added 1.885 trillion
In 2009/2010 the Obama budget added 1.652 trillion

He managed to reduce the amount of accrued debt by 233 billion less than Bush added the year before. Where I come from that's call a reduction and generally considered an improvement especially given the fact that the US is in the teeth of a severe recession.

He actually did better than it first seems, mandatory spending was 280 billion more in 2010 due to increased interest and entitlements so he had to find that before any reduction kicked in.

Does that mean that the whole 13.5 trillion Bush's fault? Heck no. The national debt is an accumulated amount, every year the total is either added to or reduced based on the deficit or surplus created by that year's budget.  Bush is only responsible for the debt he added during his term in office (6.1 trillion).

Likewise, Obama is only responsible for the total amount created during his term in office (so far 1.6 trillion), the rest was created before his first budget by his predecessors.

Who is responsible for the budget? Unless the President uses his veto - he is. He creates the budget and submits it to Congress they amend it and he signs it or uses his veto.

.
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21 posted 05-31-2011 03:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So Obama was responsible for not having a budget then?
Uncas
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22 posted 05-31-2011 05:21 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


Obama has a budget for 2011 Mike. It was compiled and presented to Congress on time in February 2010 and was enacted on April 15th 2011. Was he responsible for Congress missing the deadline to amend and approve it? No, that responsibility resides solely with Congress.

The President's responsibility during the process to agree a budget is to present a budget on time and either sign it or veto it once it's passed through the Congressional process - he's fulfilled his responsibility in that regard.

.
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23 posted 06-01-2011 12:06 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I saw this thing on CNN regarding "the death of the american dream..."

This life of austerity?

DESCRIBED THE VALUES MY PARENTS TRIED DESPERATELY TO IMPRINT ON ME.

and I do live it--we have a few credit cards now, but only for emergencies. We don't buy diddly on credit. Never did.

My kids always knew they'd have to work for scholarships/pay their own way.

We never bought a family plan cellphone package. Our landscaping is what just happens to survive.

Why is the rest of the country so outraged that they must live within their means? Even if that means living in the poverty range, it's not exactly the same as the poverty range of, say, my grandparents.

I have a bit of brain damage which happens to affect my mood and memory, but I do recall that the prior administration didn't exactly leave us in a kind place with the budget.

I'd like to see a grassroots movement of ordinary citizens, who actually live their conscience...

Support corporations who do not outsource jobs. Start reading the fine print of the contracts we sign--and make them live up to it. Be vocal--be radically vocal.

It took me five days and ten zanax to explain to a company that they were charging us for being in violation of a contract, when in fact, they had violated their own terms to begin with.

(Um, should we decide to change internet service? They OWE us about fifty bucks.)



And all that cost me (and my family) was the daily migraine of listening to me rant on the phone, both patiently and impatiently, for five straight days.

Not five days straight.

Just five days in a row...

we need to pay...attention.
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24 posted 06-01-2011 12:20 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The Teflon President,Uncas? Nothing sticks to him at all.  He's never responsible, I am being asked to understand. How nice for him.

Let's see. You, as father, husband and head of household, give your family a budget you want followed. They decide not to act on it. You go to work and tell buddy Joe  that the family ignores or doesn't act on your budget. What do you suppose Joe's answer is? Think hard....

So once he hands it over, he is done. Should they not act on it on time, would a president say, "don't ask me. I did my part." or would a president pick up the phone and say, Hey, homies, what's the holdup on the budget?"

Think about that one, too...
 
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