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The big lie that Obama can't lead is crumbling

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Ron
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25 posted 06-01-2011 02:36 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Should they not act on it on time, would a president say, "don't ask me. I did my part." or would a president pick up the phone and say, Hey, homies, what's the holdup on the budget?"

Shouldn't that be OUR job, Mike? Those homies, after all, don't have to listen to the President because that's not the way the "checks and balances" of government have been designed. They damn sure better listen to a collective us, though.

They're not his homies, Mike. They ARE ours. And yea, I think that makes them our responsibility.


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26 posted 06-01-2011 07:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, I'm not buying that one, Ron. Our job was to vote in a leader of the country who would do that. So we vote them out every four years if he doesn't. Big whoopee....and in the meantime?

That's our job...to vote them in. Once they are there, it's their job. In this situation, it's the president's job. A budget for the country should be a big deal, I would think. It's not a situation where the president throws up his hands and says, "not my fault. I did what I was supposed to do". It's his job  to press on getting it done and holding people responsible for not doing it. Is it your contention then that Obama can just tell the American people, "Hey, not  looking out for you is not my job. It's yours. After all, you voted me and them in." ?

I don't think that will play in Peoria....

I've seen a lot of Obama excusing here to absolve him for all kinds of things but this one, this "It's our fault if he doesn't do what he's supposed to do", has to rank right down there with the weakest, will all due respect.
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27 posted 06-01-2011 08:06 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Those homies, after all, don't have to listen to the President because that's not the way the "checks and balances" of government have been designed.

You didn't really say that, did you, Ron? The democratic congress wouldn't listen to Obama? Pelosi and Reid would chisel his face on Mt. Rushmore if he wanted it done. Up until this last election, congress jumped through whatever hoop he held up. There was no check and  balance in operation. It was Obama saying "I want it done" and congress finding a way of getting it done. You know that. You contend that, if Obama had said, "Nancy and Harry, get that budget done", they would have responded, "We don't really have to listen to you" ? LOL! They both wear Obama pj's and give thanks to him  before eating a meal. I'm not sure any president has had more control over over a congress or two lackeys more devoted to him than Obama in his first two years.

Yes, we can make a difference every two or four years. All we have to do is learn how to hold our breaths that long. If we can't, I guess that's our fault, too

Ron
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28 posted 06-01-2011 09:34 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
That's our job...to vote them in. Once they are there, it's their job.

Really, Mike? Isn't that just an abrogation of our own responsibilities as citizens?

quote:
You didn't really say that, did you, Ron? The democratic congress wouldn't listen to Obama? Pelosi and Reid would chisel his face on Mt. Rushmore if he wanted it done.

Mike, I think you're confusing our Constitution with the political party system?

I have no idea how the Democratic party imposes its will on its members. I'd be more than happy to listen to someone's thoughts on the matter. More importantly, however, I'd love to hear which part of the Constitution gives the Executive branch dominion over the Legislative branch?

That's not to suggest, of course, that the President doesn't have influence in Congress. He does and I think if you look back over the last several decades you'll quickly conclude that his influence is almost always directly proportional to his popularity with the people. Congress, for all its transgressions, rarely loses sight of where the true power lies.

Sadly, it appears that we do.

quote:
I've seen a lot of Obama excusing here ...

That's not my intent, Mike. Indeed, I agree the President should have better used his influence to pressure Congress for a quicker resolution. But that's still not where the ultimate responsibility must lie. What is the most common strategy for a President to pressure Congress? He makes a speech and appeals to the electorate, Mike. That's where the power really lies, and I'm sorry, but that's also where the responsibility must lie as well.

How many letters, emails, or phone messages expressing your concerns over the budget did YOU send to your Congressional representatives, Mike? It's easy to say no one in Washington is going to listen to YOU, of course, but history (and damn recent history, at that) suggests they will certainly listen to US.

Voting every two or four years is just the start of our responsibility. It's not the end.


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29 posted 06-01-2011 12:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I don't see where that's an aborgation of our responsibilities at all. Our job is to put into office the people we feel will do the best to serve our interests. We basically put ourselves in their hands. If you were to hire someone to be CEO of your company and found that they were only concerned with serving their own interests and not yours, what would you do? If you couldn't change their minds, you would fire him. Well, what happens if you find you cannot fire him for 4 years and, until then, you just have to accept whatever he does? How palatable does that sound to you? Yes, I can say, "Your fault, Ron. You hired him" and I would be right but would that be completely fair to you? No - and it's not to us to have someone say the same to us.

I have no idea how the Democratic party imposes its will on its members.

Of course you do. Perhaps you just don't want to acknowledge it. Anyone who has followed Obama, Pelosi and Reid knows.

Congress, for all its transgressions, rarely loses sight of where the true power lies.

Unfortunately, this congress, before the last election, considered that the true power lied with THEM. Pelosi and Reid gave ample quotes to verify that. They did not care about public opinion. As Pelosi said, "We won the election. We're running things now." Obama, while claiming the same thing, graciously offered to let the republicans sit in the back while he drove. Did they care about public opinion? There was no poll that showed any majority of the population supported Obama Care.....didn't matter to them. They slid cap and trade through the house literally in the dead of night with no fanfare because they knew public opinion would be against it. There are many instances to show that no public opinion or sentiment has mattered to them. The only time they consider it important is before elections.....period.

What is the most common strategy for a President to pressure Congress? He makes a speech and appeals to the electorate, Mike.

Sounds reasonable. do you recall any such speech? I can't find one. Do you see anywhere that Obama tried to exert any pressure on congress in that regard? No, me neither. With Pelosi and Reid in charge, anything Obama wanted done would have been done and please don't pretend you don't know that. Everything they have done since assuming command verifies it.

Voting every two or four years is just the start of our responsibility. It's not the end.

So what do you do, Ron, when you tell congress what you want done, reminding them of the fact that they work for you.....and they say get lost? You vote them out whenever the next election comes up, yes, but in the meantime? Do we take to the streets? Do we flood DC with protest parades? Do we go on strike? (maybe she was right, after all). Is it right for someone to just wag their finger and say, "well, it's your fault", when we were taken in by a confidence man? Sorry, I'm not gonna wear that mantle or pretend that the people I helped put in office don't have the responsibility of doing what they said they were going to do.

Just ain't gonna happen....
Uncas
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30 posted 06-01-2011 01:46 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
So once he hands it over, he is done. Should they not act on it on time, would a president say, "don't ask me. I did my part." or would a president pick up the phone and say, Hey, homies, what's the holdup on the budget?"


My guess is that the President would ask Congress to get their respective houses in order and fulfil their responsibility as laid down in the Congressional budgetary process Mike. He'd probably do it both privately and in a public as Ron suggested - I don't know if he picked up the phone on this occasion but the record is clear that he did address the issue in public:

"For the sake of our people and our economy, we cannot allow gridlock to prevail,"

"I urge and expect [lawmakers] to find common ground so we can accelerate, not impede economic growth. ... Both sides will have to compromise,"

.
Ron
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31 posted 06-01-2011 01:51 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
If you were to hire someone to be CEO of your company and found that they were only concerned with serving their own interests and not yours, what would you do?

Probably the first thing I would do, Mike, is talk to them. Again, have you tried that yet?

Beyond making your sentiments known?

There's not a whole lot I like about the Tea Party, but even their most ardent critics have to admit the Tea Party has taken an active role in politics and, as a result, has brought out about a lot of change in government. In Michigan, the other side of the aisle is attempting to recall our newly elected Governor. They just might succeed, too. You and I are both of an age to remember with some clarity the ousting of Nixon. Political activism isn't easy (nor is it supposed to be) and it's rarely quick, but it's an option that was built into our Constitution for a reason. It's an important part of being American.

Again, Mike, I'm not saying we shouldn't hold our elected officials responsible. We should. But NOT at the cost of ignoring our own responsibilities.

In the specific instance you're talking about, Mike, I think public opinion was already pushing for budget legislation. That's why it got passed when it did. Frankly, I didn't follow that battle closely (I knew it would be passed eventually) and really don't know what the problems were. Or who caused them. I seriously doubt it was President Obama.

Could the President have gotten it passed earlier? Maybe. If he really wanted to use up favors, probably. I suspect President Obama could also get my nearest neighbor to stop letting errant trash blow into my yard. But I don't think that is Obama's proper job, either.  
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32 posted 06-01-2011 04:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, Ron, I;ve given quotes and specifics showing how Obama, Pelosi and Reid could care  less about public opinion or approval and it's gone unaddressed or responded to so I see little use in continuing it. We will just have to agree to disagree, I suppose.

Uncas, I assume the quotes you offered have to do with the budget we have been referring to here for hours, since it would make little sense to use them if they are not. Can you provide that link to the comments along with the date they were made? Thank you,
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33 posted 06-01-2011 05:03 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't think a budget was passed in the last Congress because the Dems didn't want to take a hit in the elections for making the cuts needed just prior to the elections, so they kicked it down to the next Congress. And now they will blame the Republicans as often as possible and as loudly as possible for any of the cuts that were made prior to the next election, even though they themselves would have had to make tough cuts also, if they had bothered to do their job instead of playing politics.

Ron I don't know anybody, myself included, who would not give Obama a good rating on the economy if he started implementing policies that would grow the economy. But I'm sure there are some who wouldn't give him a good grade no matter what he did.

And what's not to like about the Tea Party?

Uncas
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34 posted 06-01-2011 05:57 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


The quotes are from Obama's weekly address in February Mike.
http://www.wkyt.com/blogs/neilsnotebook/President_Obamas_weekly_address_We_cannot_allow_gridlock_to_prevail_117068128.html

quote:
I don't know anybody, myself included, who would not give Obama a good rating on the economy if he started implementing policies that would grow the economy


Have you any specific policies in mind Denise?

quote:
And what's not to like about the Tea Party?


Their lack of any detailed and specific policies perhaps?

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35 posted 06-01-2011 06:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Well, Ron, I;ve given quotes and specifics showing how Obama, Pelosi and Reid could care  less about public opinion or approval and it's gone unaddressed or responded to so I see little use in continuing it.

I didn't address it, Mike, because one, I didn't think it was relevant to the point, two, I disagreed with virtually all of your examples being "unpopular," and three, even were you to find an example we could both agree upon I suspect it would just be the exception that proves the rule.

What do I mean by that last? Elected politicians care what the voters think EXCEPT when the voters are wrong and the politician has the courage to vote his conscience. Civil rights comes immediately to mind. Ford's pardon for Nixon is probably an even better example. It made Ford unelectable and was hugely unpopular at the time; history and hindsight, however, have made vastly different judgments. It was the right thing to do, not for Nixon but for the country, and Ford did the right thing in spite of the cost to his political career. To me that's the proverbial exception that proves the rule.

Sadly, most politicians don't have that kind of integrity. Which is why I've said many times in these threads, the people generally get exactly what they deserve. Or, at least, what they think they wanted. Two thousand years later, it's still all about bread and circuses. And in some small part, Mike, I suspect it's because too many people think their only role as citizens is to cast their vote every two or four years.


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36 posted 06-01-2011 08:12 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I like Ryan's proposal, as do most of the Tea Party folks I know. Is that specific enough?

My question was directed at Ron, though, with all due respect. I already know your thoughts on the Tea Party, Uncas, and since Ron made that commment about not liking too much about them I was just curious as to what it is that he doesn't like.
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37 posted 06-01-2011 08:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thanks, uncas. That's about what I thought....and the comments have nothing to do with  our discussion of the budget Democrats ignored passing and Obama not pressuring them to do so. Those comments refer to the budget he is try to pass NOW, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. You can't take those comments and make any valid point except that it is what he is saying NOW.

There are many comparisons. He said republicans could ride in the back while democrats drove the bus. He said republicans and democrats must put aside political differences and work together. What happened between those two statements? An election that took the House  away from him. He said raising the deficit was dangerous and almost criminal. He said not raising the limit would destroy the United States. What was the difference? He became president and wants it raised.

Nice work if you can take a statement referring to something he wants currently and extend it to things in the past and pawn it off as "standard Obama thinking". It ain't so, Joe. Your examples mean nothing except to show how his mind constantly changes.....and we have plenty of those examples already.
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38 posted 06-01-2011 08:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Elected politicians care what the voters think EXCEPT when the voters are wrong and the politician has the courage to vote his conscience.

Sadly, most politicians don't have that kind of integrity.


Thank God we have omnipotent politicians and what a shame they don't have integrity.

Do you REALLY think Obama is doing what he has done because he is so much smarter than the majority of voters who disagree with him and he knows he is our savior? Is this one of those Dad saying, "Son, this will hurt me more than it hurts you" as the paddle whizzes through the air toward his son's bottom? Guess what? It's not hurting them at all. They are fine. They are not going to be under the same health care programs the rest of us will be. Their salaries will not be reduced. There will be no food stamps in their future. Can you honestly look at Pelosi's actions since she took over the House and say all that she has done, she has done for the good of the country....or for the good of Pelosi and the party? You don't have three saviors, Ron, three sages blessed with mind power so superior to the masses that they know what's good for them, even as they make thme suffer. You have three people drunk with the new found power they have and feel they don't have to respond to anyone for their actions. By the time the consequences of their actions come to fruition, Obama will be gone and simply mutter, "Well, I did my best but Bush left me too much of a mess" as he heads for the golf course.

I simply find it incredible that otherwise intelligent people cannot see what is happening before their eyes, or can see it but refuse to acknowledge it.

SOunds like I feel that I know much better than those who disagree with me. Well, since you applaud politicians who feel that way, I'll take it as a good thing!

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39 posted 06-01-2011 08:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"During the summer of 2009, in the early stages of the health care debate, a frustrated Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., lamented that he wasn't getting any cooperation from Republicans. ... This 'Party of No' rhetoric was parroted by nearly every liberal writer. It is less common today, now that the tables have turned. The new Republican House majority has passed a serious proposal to reform the broken entitlement system and avert national insolvency. Not only has Reid refused to work with the GOP on a budget, but he said it would be 'foolish' for Democrats to release one of their own. And last Wednesday, Senate Democrats gave new meaning to the label the 'Party of No' when they held a series of four budget votes. Not a single Democrat voted for any budget proposal, including Obama's own plan, which was rejected by a unanimous 97-to-0 vote. Democrats have settled on a political strategy of isolating and attacking the Ryan plan instead of offering constructive solutions that could leave them open to attack. If history is any guide, this is a winning election strategy. But it is not necessarily responsible governance. The nation faces an unprecedented debt crisis that makes the problems in the health care system pale in comparison. ... As tempting as it is for Republicans to blast Democrats' inaction, they would do much better to go on offense and attack the bad ideas Democrats have already embraced." --The Washington Examiner
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40 posted 06-01-2011 08:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"Senate Democrats haven't passed their own budget plan in more than two years, despite having strong control of that body. Meanwhile, the nation is teetering on bankruptcy. I don't make that statement lightly. Our national debt is $14.3 trillion, and our federal deficit is $1.65 trillion. ... Republicans will make a mistake if they continue to be in counterattack mode, waiting for the latest Democratic broadside to respond. They should be on the airwaves every morning and every night presenting the nightmarish facts and their proposal to end the nightmare and exposing the Democrats for the reckless rogues they are. Time's running out." --columnist David Limbaugh
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41 posted 06-02-2011 09:03 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Do you REALLY think Obama is doing what he has done because he is so much smarter than the majority of voters who disagree with him ...

Yea, and I stopped beating my wife, too. You're asking loaded questions, Mike, and apparently expecting me to walk right into them.

Obama doesn't have to be smarter than the majority of voters who disagree with him unless we first acknowledge there really IS a majority who disagree with him. I don't think that's the case, at least not on any of the issues you've mentioned so far. Your question, therefore, makes little sense.

In the abstract, however . . .

Thomas Jefferson believed the average person was ill-equipped to handle the complexities of politics. I tend to agree with that sentiment. People are short sighted and easily convinced by really silly propaganda that rarely stands up to even the slightest scrutiny. Apparently if you say "death panel" often enough, people start to believe it. People, by and large, have forgotten how to think for themselves.

The role of a good leader is to counter the silly propaganda and convince the people to support the leader's agenda. When the agenda is a good one, we end up with Winston Churchill. When it's a bad one, we get Adolph Hitler.

The role of a great leader is to convince the people to not only support his agenda, but to actually believe in it. It's important, however, to convince through persuasion and oratory, as we saw abundantly during the first 100 years of American history and sporadically since, not through brute force and lies. Aluminum tube centrifuges don't cut it.

When we don't have good leaders, when we go too long without finding a great leader, the people . . . end up getting pretty much what they we deserve.

None of which is to suggest that the people should be (or can be) ignored. Politician have to listen to them, and I think most do. Leaders, however, have to lead them. Essentially, the leaders have to tell the people what to say to the politicians.

quote:
Can you honestly look at Pelosi's actions since she took over the House and say all that she has done, she has done for the good of the country....or for the good of Pelosi and the party?

First, Mike, let me say that I don't particularly like Nancy Pelosi, but I also don't really follow "all that she has done" in Congress. At best, I get the highlights. Why? Because she doesn't represent me in Washington. Pelosi represents a relatively small number of people in Northern California. They voted for her, while I can't vote either for her or against her.

Second, let me reiterate feelings I've expressed in the forums a few times in the past. In our current political atmosphere, "For the good of Pelosi and the party" has become very difficult to separate from the good of the country. Nixon wasn't out to destroy this country; he just believed HE could do more good for the country than anyone else. That kind of attitude leads too many politicians to do what ever it takes to get and stay in office. It's certainly not an attitude that is limited to Pelosi or even just one political party.

However, it is exactly that same attitude that makes our politicians listen to the voters. But the voters first have to speak up and, lately, the Tea Party seems to be the only group willing to do that. Personally, I think it's very clear that both parties have at least been listening to what the Tea Party has to say?

I think I'll take a pass on your sound bites, Mike. There's actually a few good points in them, but the good points are buried beneath histrionics and partisan back stabbing. Responding to someone else's propaganda is a waste of time if only because there's SO much of it out there.
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42 posted 06-02-2011 02:54 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Thanks, uncas. That's about what I thought....and the comments have nothing to do with our discussion of the budget Democrats ignored passing and Obama not pressuring them to do so. Those comments refer to the budget he is try to pass NOW, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. You can't take those comments and make any valid point except that it is what he is saying NOW.


I think you're getting confused Mike, which is understandable given the overlap of the 2011 budget and the 2012 budget.

The 2011 budget was the one we were talking about, the one that got stalled in Congress and went past the allotted deadline of Sept 2010. That budget was presented to Congress by Obama, on time, at the beginning of 2010, The radio address from Obama I linked to was directly related to the 2011 budget - urging Congress to get their finger out and present him with a budget to sign, which they did shortly after.

The budget discussions currently underway are twofold, the first is whether to raise the allowed debt ceiling so that the government can actually spend the money that's just been agreed in the 2011 budget.

The second is a debate regarding the 2012 budget, which was presented to Congress in Feb this year by Obama and won't be overdue until the deadline of Sept 2011. Obama can't pressure them to pass that budget until after that date.

.
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43 posted 06-02-2011 03:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

unless we first acknowledge there really IS a majority who disagree with him. I don't think that's the case, at least not on any of the issues you've mentioned so far.

Really? You will show me in some way, I suppose, where the majority was in favor of ObamaCare? That's an issue I've mentioned so far? Then perhaps you will show me where a majority was in favor of cap and trade, another issue I've mentioned so far?

Thomas Jefferson believed the average person was ill-equipped to handle the complexities of politics.

Trust me, Ron, you don't want to reference Thomas Jefferson unless you want the dozens of his quotes which would blow Obama out of the water.

The role of a great leader is to convince the people to not only support his agenda, but to actually believe in it.

Obviously then, we don't have a great leader since the majority of the peopl do not approve of the way Obama is handling the economy.

Because she doesn't represent me in Washington. Pelosi represents a relatively small number of people in Northern California. They voted for her, while I can't vote either for her or against her.

I see. So you don't feel the Speaker of the House has any power to influence decisions concerning anyone but her own constituents? That's a pretty amazing statement. Pelosi almost singlehandedly got Obamacare through the House. Does that mean ObamaCare only concerns the people who voted for Pelosi? Pelosi has power over decisions that influence you, Ron, whether you voted for her or not.

I think I'll take a pass on your sound bites, Mike. There's actually a few good points in them, but the good points are buried beneath histrionics and partisan back stabbing. Responding to someone else's propaganda is a waste of time if only because there's SO much of it out there.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Ron. I don't present them as sound bytes, partisan back stabbing, hysteria or propaganda. There is sincerity in those lines, whether you can see it or not, along with love for my country and sadness for what this administration is doing to it. If you see it as nothing more than ranting, then that's my fault not yours. I know you don't mean your comment as a personal insult but it shows how conversations like this are basically little more than a waste of time.  I'll try not to waste your time in the future.

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44 posted 06-02-2011 04:26 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
You will show me in some way, I suppose, where the majority was in favor of ObamaCare? That's an issue I've mentioned so far? Then perhaps you will show me where a majority was in favor of cap and trade, another issue I've mentioned so far?

Are you suggesting that people aren't interested in their health care, Mike? Or in the price of gas? What kind of proof do you need in order to recognize that people want those problems solved?

No doubt you want to talk about the details of the solutions proposed? I'm on record for not liking the health care solution that passed and for liking the (start of a) solution to the energy problems we face. However, like the vast majority of Americans, I wanted to see SOMETHING done.

And it was.

quote:
Obviously then, we don't have a great leader since the majority of the peopl do not approve of the way Obama is handling the economy.

The majority of the people don't approve of the economy, Mike. Period.

The problem with polls is that, by and large, they are meaningless. Not only do the answers depend on the questions, the answers require absolutely no effort and not a great deal more thought. The other day, I asked a fellow in the restaurant up town whether he thought people should still be smoking. It came up because Michigan only began disallowing smoking in public buildings (like the restaurant) last year. The fellow pursed his lips, shook his head slowly, and finally answered, "Prob'ly not," in that slow drawl common to farmers in the Midwest. Fifteen minutes later, as I pulled out of the parking lot, I saw him standing on the street corner lighting a cigarette.

What people say matters a great deal less than what they do. If the Presidential election was this November, Mike, instead of eighteen months away, who do you think would win? THAT is how many people disapprove of Obama today. (And, sure, it could change by next month, let alone next year.)

quote:
So you don't feel the Speaker of the House has any power to influence decisions concerning anyone
but her own constituents?

Didn't say that. I said I have no control over what she does, so I don't track her every move -- which is what you were asking me to comment on in the earlier post.

quote:
There is sincerity in those lines, whether you can see it or not, along with love for my country and sadness for what this administration is doing to it. If you see it as nothing more than ranting, then that's my fault not yours. I know you don't mean your comment as a personal insult but it shows how conversations like this are basically little more than a waste of time.

I think (hope) you misunderstood what I meant by sound bites, Mike. I was referring to your quotations that were posts number 39 and 40, apparently words written by The Washington Examiner and David Limbaugh. Without links, I might add, though I suspect I could find them if I wanted. If those folks want to come to the forum and register, I'll be happy to explain why half of what they say is wrong (and which half I might agree with).

I have never questioned your sincerity, Mike, nor your good intent. We actually agree on more things than we disagree on . . . but no one ever sees me nodding my head when that happens.


Denise
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45 posted 06-04-2011 04:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ron, what's not to like about the Tea Party?
Ron
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46 posted 06-04-2011 07:08 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sigh. Sadly, Denise, I don't have time to write a book. Or to go back through the Alley and dig out all the threads where rumor and innuendo promoted by the Tea Party has been posted and then refuted for the garbage it usually is. While I often admire their passion, passion without critical reasoning is extraordinarily dangerous. Not to mention darn irritating.

The best I can do to answer your question is to say . . . just about everything.
Huan Yi
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47 posted 06-04-2011 09:46 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"While I often admire their passion, passion without critical reasoning is extraordinarily dangerous. Not to mention darn irritating."


Pretty much sums up my gripe with the Left.
.
Denise
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48 posted 06-05-2011 12:11 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't remember any rumors or innuendo being put forth by the Tea Party or of any instances where such alleged rumors or innuendo had supposedly been refuted.
Bob K
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49 posted 06-06-2011 08:42 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

Pretty much sums up my gripe with the Left.



     I'm not entirely certain I agree, John.  But, tell me, what do you think of the Left, itself?
 
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