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Passions in Poetry

Well that's all right then

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moonbeam
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0 posted 05-02-2011 06:23 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Now even Mike and Denise will have to acknowledge Obama the hero!

Bin Laden dead thanks to your President's extraordinary perception and decisiveness - and all's right with the world again.
Balladeer
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1 posted 05-02-2011 08:38 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

moonbeam, spoken like a man desperate to find something good to say about the man and relieved to finally have found something

I DO applaud Obama for his actions.

Four years ago, the United States learned the man's identity, which officials did not disclose, and then about two years later, they identified areas of Pakistan where he operated. Last August, the man's residence was found, officials said.

"Intelligence analysis concluded that this compound was custom built in 2005 to hide someone of significance," with walls as high as 18 feet and topped by barbed wire, according to one official. Despite the compound's estimated $1 million cost and two security gates, it had no phone or Internet running into the house.


Obviously, the wheels leading up to discovering the location of Bin Laden were put in place before Obama took office but he was the one who gave the order and deserves credit for doing so. It was risky, doing it without advising the Pakistani gov't beforehand, and I give another salute for that.

It couldn't have come at a better time for Obama. He needed something to slow down his nose-diving poll numbers. This will do that very nicely until people get back in their cars and drive to their local gas stations.

So, yes, Obama gets kudos for this. He done good.
Huan Yi
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2 posted 05-02-2011 08:41 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"Obama the hero!"


I didn't know he was a Seal.

The lead was followed for four years.

When the military came with the plans
was Obama going to say no?


"It was risky, doing it without advising the Pakistani gov't beforehand"


The site was a short distance from their West Point . . .  


Balladeer
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3 posted 05-02-2011 09:24 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's interesting the mixed feelings I get over this. Am I glad we got Bin Laden? Yes.Am I glad he is dead? Yes....but somehow I find this euphoria, these "WE KILLED HIM!" headlines, these wild celebrations to be distasteful. I'm just not comfortable with the celebration of the loss of life or of killing someone, even a Bin Laden.
Margherita
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4 posted 05-02-2011 10:44 AM       View Profile for Margherita   Email Margherita   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Margherita

quote:
but somehow I find this euphoria, these "WE KILLED HIM!" headlines, these wild celebrations to be distasteful. I'm just not comfortable with the celebration of the loss of life or of killing someone, even a Bin Laden.


My thoughts exactly.

Unless we - as humans - will not be able to stop the "circle of hatred" there will never be justice or peace. It's time that we evolve into higher beings, where love rules and where there is the awareness of being all ONE.

The only thing we all should do with the greatest passion is to make this world a better place, by eliminating poverty and hunger and providing a dignified life for all. Other causes of revolution, terrorism and war, like material greed and religious fundamentalism would also have less reason to persist, if we could achieve this goal for humanity.

Evil pursuing people should be given the chance to change their attitude, by being shown constructive means to improve human conditions. In killing them there is no gain really.


Love and peace.
Margherita
Denise
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5 posted 05-02-2011 11:19 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I was typing the same thing earlier but didn't post it, Michael.

I didn't celebrate when Sadaam was hung, and I'm not celebrating now with the death of bin Laden and some of his family, nor for the deaths of Gadhafi's family members.

I don't see death as something to celebrate, even the death of bin Laden.

Huan Yi
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6 posted 05-02-2011 01:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


You really have to murder in the millions
these days for people to feel happy
about you being dead.


.
moonbeam
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7 posted 05-02-2011 01:58 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Mike.

Also nice to hear three US citizens with reservations about some of the over the top celebrations of a death.  It somewhat restores my faith in perspective.

  
Huan Yi
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8 posted 05-02-2011 02:06 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"in perspective"


as in no innocent I cared about had to
choose between jumping or burning to death. . .

.
Local Rebel
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9 posted 05-02-2011 02:38 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Wow!  Mike and Denise have a liberal bias!
Denise
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10 posted 05-02-2011 03:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

His death doesn't undo those deaths, or the unspeakable, unfathomable, agonizing, horrific situation they faced, John. And to be sure they suffered much more than he did in his death. I'm sure everybody has differing convictions  on it. I'd have been satisfied with his being locked up in a maxium security prison for the rest of his life, which I'm sure he would have been if he hadn't resisted.  The Navy Seals did what they had to do and they deserve our gratitude.  
serenity blaze
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11 posted 05-02-2011 05:07 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I understood those who felt the need to go to Ground Zero, or the White House.

As for the facts? I'd like to know if the breaking news did actually interrupt the ever-captivating end of Donald Trump's show "The Apprentice"?

Now that I would find amusing.
Huan Yi
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12 posted 05-02-2011 05:21 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


When Baron von Richthofen was shot out of the sky in April 1918, there
were a number of Allied comments about him being a knight of the sky
and a worthy opponent,  (he in fact had little silver cups made to celebrate
each of his victories).  A combat pilot asked his opinion simply responded:
“I hope he burned all the way down.”

By the way, it was a “kill” operation, which saved a lot of legal fees.


.
Uncas
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13 posted 05-02-2011 05:58 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
By the way, it was a “kill” operation, which saved a lot of legal fees.


That's a novel way to save money but I guess if you're going to ignore the right to a free trial it sort of makes sense. The government could set up facilities to exterminate the prison population en masse - that would save an absolute fortune.

I'm amazed nobody has thought of it before.

.
Denise
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14 posted 05-02-2011 06:47 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

That's funny Karen! It wouldn't surprise me!

Oh, John, please don't tell me the Administration is lying AGAIN? A spokesperson just said not 15 minutes ago that they were instructed to take him alive if at all possible, but since he resisted it wasn't possible. What to believe, what to believe? Experience tells me to believe you, John.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not upset over his death. I just can't get in a celebratory frame of mind over any death.

And kudos to President Bush for implementing the policies, and to President Obama for having the common sense to continue those policies, that led to Osama's downfall.
Balladeer
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15 posted 05-02-2011 08:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Agreed, Denise. His death is not to be mourned at all and may he catch the clap from every virgin waiting for him in his promised land. It still makes our public celebrations distasteful to me in some ways.
Denise
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16 posted 05-02-2011 10:19 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It was a strange day. I'd never felt so disconnected from what I had seen and sensed around me.

Denise
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17 posted 05-03-2011 09:53 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Wouldn't it be a great sign of graciousness if Obama were to invite Bush to NY with him this Thursday to share in the spotlight?

If he did I might even gain a measure of respect for the man.
Huan Yi
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18 posted 05-03-2011 11:15 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Has there ever been a more contemptible leader from behind, or a commander who authorized more blanket death sentences on bystanders?”


http://www.slate.com/id/2292687/


PS
If you’re interested there are some great moments of Hitchens taking on and down Maher and his audience
on youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlEdtRZJCQ


.


Balladeer
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19 posted 05-03-2011 01:03 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Denise, it would indeed be a sign of graciousness but don't hold your breath. Obama is going to wring this one out for all he can get and he ain't sharing the spotlight with anyone!

A little ironic that information from a prisoner at Gitmo, which Obama opposes, extracted by waterboarding, which Obama opposes, led the the action that Obama is taking bows for....
Balladeer
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20 posted 05-03-2011 01:18 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I think M. Luther King summed it up very well....thanks, Martie

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr.
Ron
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21 posted 05-03-2011 02:57 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Why in the world would Bush be put in the spotlight? Bin Laden wasn't found in Iraq, was he? LOL.

quote:
A little ironic that information from a prisoner at Gitmo, which Obama opposes, extracted by waterboarding, which Obama opposes, led the the action that Obama is taking bows for....

That's speculation from Rumsfeld and, frankly, a lot of crap. These guys have been behind bars for most of a decade, remember? Their information isn't exactly current. And somehow I have trouble crediting that the nick name of a courier provided literally years in the past was nearly as key as Rumsfeld and others might like to believe.

And if it was key?

Then it could (and no doubt was) obtained more reliably and without turning us into them. If the death of a monster shouldn't be celebrated, and I agree it shouldn't, neither should it be used to justify torture.


Huan Yi
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22 posted 05-03-2011 03:10 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"If the death of a monster shouldn't be celebrated, and I agree it shouldn't, "


I don't understand that.

.
Balladeer
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23 posted 05-03-2011 03:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Why in the world would Bush be put in the spotlight? Bin Laden wasn't found in Iraq, was he? LOL.

I';ll defer to John's comment... I didn't know Obama was a Seal

That's speculation from Rumsfeld and, frankly, a lot of crap. A strange statement, coming from you, Ron. You have no way of knowing if it's crap or not. You may WISH it is but I'd like to see the proof that it isn't.

These guys have been behind bars for most of a decade, remember? Their information isn't exactly current. Yes, I remember, Ron, and that's why I say where is the acknowledgement to Bush? Obama doesn't have to put Bush in the spotlight but acknowledging that the results stemmed from actions that Bush put into effect would seem to be appropriate.

Then it could (and no doubt was) obtained   Really? No doubt? At the time democrats were screaming bloody murder that waterboarding was going on, you claim there is no doubt waterboarding was NOT used?

You want to think that waterboarding turns us into them? Be my guest.
Ron
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24 posted 05-03-2011 05:01 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I don't understand that.

Which part confuses you, John? That bin Laden was a monster or that I don't take joy in his death?

quote:
I';ll defer to John's comment... I didn't know Obama was a Seal

What does either Obama or the Seal team have to do with crediting Bush, Mike?

The Seals took on a dangerous job and should be applauded for both their loyalty to country and their courage. They did their jobs and did it proudly. But, uh, they didn't find the target, Mike, and that's kind of what we were talking about.

Need I even say it? I didn't know Bush was a Seal.  

quote:
Yes, I remember, Ron, and that's why I say where is the acknowledgement to Bush? Obama doesn't have to put Bush in the spotlight but acknowledging that the results stemmed from actions that Bush put into effect would seem to be appropriate.

I believe the Administration already did exactly that, Mike, when they publicly announced that President Bush was one of the first people called. I think that was acknowledging Bush's part and I definitely agree it was appropriate. But it certainly didn't have anything to do with crediting Bush for torturing men some ten years ago and then going after Iraq instead.

quote:
Then it could (and no doubt was) obtained   Really? No doubt? At the time democrats were screaming bloody murder that waterboarding was going on, you claim there is no doubt waterboarding was NOT used?

My pronouns could no doubt have been more clear, Mike. "It' doesn't refer to waterboarding, but rather to the nick name of someone obtained from waterboarding. My contention is that the name could have been obtained without torture -- and no doubt was. It could never have been trusted without that confirmation, Mike.

quote:
That's speculation from Rumsfeld and, frankly, a lot of crap. A strange statement, coming from you, Ron. You have no way of knowing if it's crap or not. You may WISH it is but I'd like to see the proof that it isn't.

LOL. Mike, everything coming from Rumsfeld has always been a load of crap.

No, of course, I don't have any proof. Simply the logical conclusion that men who probably don't know who won the last World Series or the (outrageous) price of gas probably didn't know bin Laden's location in 2011, either.

If we look only at what Presidents Bush and Obama have publicly said the conclusions are inescapable.

Obama publicly claimed one of the first things he did when taking office was to tell the appropriate people that capturing Osama bin Laden was their number one priority. Bush, on the other hand, publicly claimed he didn't care where bin Laden was and spent the greater part of eight years dismissing the leader of Al Qaeda as unimportant.

Honestly? I don't believe either man. One was trying to take credit, the other trying to escape blame, and both were simply playing politics as usual. The bottom line, however, is that Bush didn't find bin Laden within the scope of two four-year terms, whether his failure was from not caring, as he repeatedly claimed,  or from really bad luck. Obama did find bin Laden, either because he pushed harder as he claimed or from really good luck. I have very little doubt that luck played a part for both men (which probably shouldn't detract from Obama's willingness to take action when the opportunity presented itself).

I just don't see any reason someone would expect Bush to get credit for Obama's luck?
 
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