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Balladeer
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0 posted 04-08-2011 08:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


“In one of the bills before us, 6 million seniors are deprived of meals — homebound seniors are deprived of meals. People ask us to find our common ground, the middle ground. Is middle ground 3 million seniors not receiving meals? I don't think so. We've got to take this conversation from a debate about numbers and dollar figures and finding middle ground there to the higher ground of national values. I don't think the American people want any one of those 6 million people to lose their meals or the children who are being thrown off of Head Start and the rest of it.”

— House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), April 4, 2011

In a city with overheated rhetoric, Pelosi’s statement ranks high on this year’s list of bloviated bluster. It’s bad enough that she repeatedly mixed up 6 million meals and 6 million people — and made no effort to correct the record after her statement was reported in the media. But the figure she used appears to have been invented itself, with little basis in fact.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/nancy-pelosis-absurd-math-on-senior-citizens-losing-their-meals/2011/04/06/AFUf51rC_blog.html?hpid=z1


Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) once again attacked Republicans’ budget proposal on Wednesday, claiming its cuts target “little children” and “poor little boys and girls.”  

He added that the spending bill, which will face a vote in the Senate later on Wednesday afternoon, is “insulting” to the American people.

“H.R. 1 is a mean-spirited bill that would cut the heart out of the recovery that we have in America today,” said Reid. “It goes after little children, poor little boys and girls ... we want them to learn to read.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/148319-reid-republican-budget-goes-after-little-children
Is there any wonder why these two clowns are considered by many to be the worst politicians to ever head the House or Senate? They have no shame at all. Even the Democrats are denying these statements.
Ron
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1 posted 04-08-2011 09:02 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

The Republicans could take a lesson from them, Mike, and stop linking everything on their agenda to jobs. Both parties are just trying to push the right buttons, and both parties are equally transparent about it.

There are bozos to spare on both side of the aisle.
serenity blaze
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2 posted 04-08-2011 01:26 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"A pox on botha yer houses."

I'd give credit to whomever just said that, but I was listening to the news from the next room. *shaking my head*

Our troops aren't going to get paid--insulting enough to them and an embarrassment for our nation, and the talking heads are fussing about who is going to take the blame.



Clowns...are creepy. *shudder*
serenity blaze
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3 posted 04-08-2011 02:20 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ooh. Here's another quote I like:

Sen. Mark Udall:

"It's as if we are arguing over the bar tab on the Titanic, frankly."

Some of 'em know they are wearing rubber balls on their nose.
Balladeer
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4 posted 04-08-2011 04:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not even a good attempt, Ron.

Pelosi fabricated figures, lied about them and presented the idea that millions of seniors would be deprived of food, due to the republicans. Reid followed her by stating that poor little boys and girls would not be able to learn to read, due to the republicans.

These people are supposed to be adults, for God's sake. They are supposed to have at least a drop of integrity and self-respect. I can't believe that even democrats would have any pride in these two despicable creatures. You want the republicans to share the blame with such atrocious behavior? I cannot respect a thought process like that. Yes, there are bozos on both sides but Pelosi and Reid go beyond the limits of decency. They do not deserve positions of authority.
Bob K
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5 posted 04-09-2011 02:02 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Former speaker Pelosi was wrong about the number of seniors affected if the Washington Post article is correct.  It certainly appears to be correct.

     The actual hold-up appears to be  here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/budget-impasse-puts-focus-on-planned-parenthood-womens-health/2011/04/08/AFgm6a2C_story.html


     After the Democrats have agreed to 38 Billion dollar in budget cuts, the Republicans are giving a lot of trouble because they want to cut funding for women's health care, cancer screening and so forth, as detailed in the article cited above.  Hopefully the Speaker of the House may be able to say something to the more radical Right Wing folks in his constituency.  

     I think that the Democrats are making a mistake by agreeing to any cuts at all, since the issue is not with spending but with income, and the Republicans have given tax breaks giving away substantial parts of the country's income to the most extraordinary wealthy of the very wealthy of us.  The wars they've started have committed us to ruinous spending for the forseeable future, and the cut backs on direct aid to the poor and suffering, such as the limits of unemployment insurance passed in some Republican States such as Michigan, have limited the stimulus effect that such programs have had on the economy, digging the citizenry deeper rather than out of the hole we're in now while, at the same time, the Republican monied base as reflected in corporate profits seems to have been doing pretty well for themselves.

     In the meantime, should the impending government shutdown not happen tonight, as I suspect it won't, I look forward to the next time the Republicans try the same sort of blackmail, and attack the Planned Parenthood folks again, predictably.

     While Former speaker Pelosi may have gotten the numbers wrong in this case, she does seem to have the spirit right.  Not the elderly this time, it's be an attack on poor women and it may have been fended off — too soon to tell, really — but that doesn't mean they're safe.  And from the attacks that appear to be brewing on medicare, the assault on the elderly may only have been put off slightly.  Attacks on school enrichment programs have come from the Republican side of things ever since Headstart began.  The notion that education is safe in a Conservative era seems laughable to me.  Remind me to talk about that in some more appropriate venue sometime.  There are bozos enough, as Ron suggests, to go around.  

Huan Yi
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6 posted 04-09-2011 02:41 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


We're running out of other people's money
and there aren't enough rich to make up
the difference.  Running the printing press
is not the answer either.  At some near point
whatever money is taken in will largely go
to pay the interest on money
already spent.  Most of us Boomers will
be dead by then so we can not care.  As for
the others like Paul Ryan it's another matter.


.


Bob K
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7 posted 04-09-2011 07:31 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Might be interesting if the regular folks weren't paying the  the taxes and the loan payments on the debts that we've piled up and gone into debt to give the very very very rich and the corporations they run.  Many of those companies not only don't get taxed, they get subsidies from the government running into millions of dollars on top of the profits they make.

     That seems to me to be the sort of redistribution that conservatives are against when it prevents people from starving to death, but seem to favor mightily when it redistributes wealth from those who can't afford it into the pockets of those who don't need it.  It is class warfare declared on the poor and on the middle class by the wealthy and the powerful, and the economics suggests that the wealthy and the powerful are winning.
Balladeer
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8 posted 04-09-2011 08:03 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, you have a new favorite phrase with that "very very very rich". Would you define that, please, and put an amount on it, for example? As far as giving tax breaks to the corporations, why not tell Obama to stop?
Bob K
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9 posted 04-10-2011 06:35 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     Money bills constitutionally must start in the House, Mike.
President Obama is not in The House of Representitives.  The House of Representitives is run by Real Republicans, not Republican Lite folks.  Ergo, President Obama cannot originate a money bill.  QID  

     Revisions of the tax code must come from there.  
Balladeer
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10 posted 04-10-2011 07:15 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Up until the last election, the House was run by Democrats, who danced to Obama's tune, whatever he wanted. Why did they not revise the tax code then and smite the evil corporations? Or those very very very rich??
Bob K
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11 posted 04-10-2011 07:19 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Fair enough, mike.  I'd peg it as being those folks in the top one hundreth of one percent, who average about 27, 000,000 dollars a year or a touch more.  Some folks would start it at those who earn in the top one tenth of one percent, or 3,000,000 or a smidge more, and I could really see how you might build a case for including them, but I really wanted to focus on those folks who were earning a really enormous amount of money and whose earning would justify the number of adjectives I tended to throw in.  

     I have nothing against the money.  I simply want the folks who have it to pay a good chunk to help keep the country in decent shape, pretty much the same as middle class folks do but on a slightly larger basis.  No skimping on safety in the coal mines, for example, and the nuclear power plants.  No skimping on the safety for cars.  Support for health care and social security and the general welfare of people who are fellow citizens and who may fight for them in the army or help keep the streets safe or make sure that there aren't so many fires, and that the ones we have aren't as bad as they might otherwise have been.  You know.

     Is that the sort of information you wanted from me, Mike?  Is there something else?

http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/wealthiest-americans-dramatically-increase-income-16296/motherjones-average-income-per-family-feb-2011jpg/
Ron
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12 posted 04-10-2011 08:58 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
No skimping on safety in the coal mines, for example, and the nuclear power plants.  No skimping on the safety for cars.  Support for health care and social security and the general welfare of people who are fellow citizens ...

What about child rearing, Bob? That's the most important job in this or any country, I think, and heaven knows most people are doing it poorly. As long as you want to shift the responsibility for everything from people to the government, maybe we should at least consider the possibility of putting Washington in charge of raising our kids. All it will take is more money, after all, and surely the rich folk can afford to help raise our children for us, right?

And for what it's worth, I'm only being about half-facetious.  


Balladeer
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13 posted 04-10-2011 03:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So 27,000,000 a year is the very very very rich in your estimation, Bob, and you feel that if these handful of people were to pay more in taxes it would make a huge difference in the economy? Bob, we don't have a tax-receiving problem. We have a spending problem. We have a kid in a candy store sitting in the WHite House.

I simply want the folks who have it to pay a good chunk to help keep the country in decent shape

One must wonder, then, how you feel about Kerry trying to get around the tax laws to avoid paying his fair share...or how you feel about Gore, doing the same thing - or how you feel about Holder and Rangel, trying to avoid paying taxes altogether, until they got caught. You don't need to look for the 27 mil a year folks to bring more money into the economy. Tell your fellow democrats to do their share instead of doing what they can to get out of it.
Huan Yi
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14 posted 04-10-2011 03:28 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

I'm curious.  If you took every dime
from every billionaire in the country
how much of a dent would that make?


.
Uncas
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15 posted 04-10-2011 04:20 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
we don't have a tax-receiving problem. We have a spending problem.


The reality is that you have deficit problem Mike. The US spent 3456 billion last year and took in 2162 billion in tax revenue.

Cut spending?

To simply balance the books you'd need to cut spending by 1294 billion, the difference between what you spend and your revenue, that doesn't even touch the accrued debt mind you but that's another story.

So what are you going to cut?

193 billion is the interest on your debt
416 billion is mandatory spending
793 billion is Medicare and Medicaid
701 billion is social security
689 billion is defence spending

Leaving 660 billion in discretionary spending, Congress just agreed to cut that by around 5% - if they can find the other 190% or so you're home and dry.

Back in the real world there's another option, as well as cutting spending you can increase revenue to reduce the difference between spending and revenue.

.
Uncas
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16 posted 04-10-2011 04:27 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


Huan,

The net worth of the 1010 billionaires in the US was $3.6 trillion in 2010 - up 50% from 2009.

Seems some folks are doing ok.

Bob K
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17 posted 04-10-2011 04:58 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

As long as you want to shift the responsibility for everything from people to the government[. . .]



     You forgot to show me the place where I said I wanted to shift everything from the people to the government, Ron.  I looked hard for the place where I said that, because I couldn't remember having done so.

     As I recall, I was attempting to give Mike a straight answer to a straight question about who might those people be whom I thought were were the very, very, very very wealthy people in this country.  I do admit that I think they are getting unfair tax breaks, but that's because they own a disproportionate amount of the country.  

     Should you wish to propose a feminist thread, I'd probably agree with most of what you have to say.  Are you suggesting the Republicans are in the wrong here for putting women's health issues on the chopping block as a way of blackmailing the Democrats into cutting services for women, children, elderly and the poor?  I'd suggest that it shows a poor sense of ethics but an excellent sense of politics.  I'm reminded of Shylock in the Comedy, saying "My Daughter!  My Ducats!"  That's the sort of bind the Republicans are striving to put the Democrats into.

     Of course, it's the Republicans who are putting the choices up, though, isn't it, and then pretending they have nothing but goodness in their hearts by doing so?  It's the tax cuts that have in large measure forced the situation, though.
Balladeer
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18 posted 04-10-2011 05:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

We have a deficit problem BECAUSE we spent 3456 billion last year..yes, increasing revenue is the right thing to do. One doesn't do it by raising corporate taxes so high that companies move their operations overseas.

Some folks are doing ok? I don't begridge them that. How much in taxes did they pay?
Balladeer
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19 posted 04-10-2011 05:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's the tax cuts that have in large measure forced the situation, though.

A democratic chant very short on validity, Bob, and getting shorter. The "let's blame the rich" isn't really fooling anyone anymore, in my view. Get some of the democrats, like the ones I mentioned, to pay their fair share and your call will at least be a little more believable.
Bob K
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20 posted 04-10-2011 05:19 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


quote:


So 27,000,000 a year is the very very very rich in your estimation, Bob, and you feel that if these handful of people were to pay more in taxes it would make a huge difference in the economy?



     Ah, Mike,  while I agree that these folks are a handful of people in terms of their number, you have only asked about whop they are and how much they make per year to get into the club.  You are begging the question, and suggesting that those folks at the bottom of the heap are all there is to this club and that there is no more significance beyond that.  In order for you to establish there is no significance beyond that, you would have to establish how very small a proportion of this country and other properties this small fraction of the population of the country own or control, even though some of that inbformation was included in the citation I included in my response to you.

     If you are going to play fairly with those who may be paying attention to our discussion, it would be a good idea to supply that information so the rest of those who are paying attention will know that I actually did supply it to you.  That would be fair, I believe.

     Those very few people own a very lange part of our economy, and are getting tax breaks and rebates paid for by the rest of us for doing so in many cases.  Certainly in the case of the corporate citizens.  BP paid no taxes and got a really great tax rebate.  So did Fox's NewsCorp, among our corporate citizens.  I'd really like to see some of them pay taxes, by the way, at an appropriate level, like at the level that a middle class citizen pays.

     But for those guys who earn minimum of 27,000,000 per year, I'd like to see them pay as well.  Because that level is just to get in the front door, and it goes up from there.

quote:

Bob, we don't have a tax-receiving problem. We have a spending problem. We have a kid in a candy store sitting in the WHite House.



     Spending bills originate in the house of representitives, Mike, not in the White House.  The White house can spend less than appropriated, not more.  That's the way the constitution set it up, that's the way it runs.  

     The kid in the candy store has an allowance set by the House.

     No matter how many times you say otherwise, thems still the facts, and doubly so with a Republican House.  Even without a Republican house, for the previous term, the Republicans did everything they could to bring everything to a coimplerte and utter standstill there, and took pride in doing an excellent job in doing so.

quote:

One must wonder, then, how you feel about Kerry trying to get around the tax laws to avoid paying his fair share...or how you feel about Gore, doing the same thing - or how you feel about Holder and Rangel, trying to avoid paying taxes altogether, until they got caught. You don't need to look for the 27 mil a year folks to bring more money into the economy. Tell your fellow democrats to do their share instead of doing what they can to get out of it.
[


     I'm sorry, Mike, was there someplace in my presentation where I said that I only wanted to make Republicans who made more than 27,000,000 dollars a year pay their fair share?  I must have missed that part.  Would you point that out for me or appologise for suggesting that I said something that stupidly partisan, please?   I have nothing against wealthy people.  I object to people who descry redistribution of wealth to keep other people alive and healthy without materially damaging their own level of comfort and safety.  When some sort of religious justification is added into this, I tend to get not only upset but nauseated as well.

     In those circumstances, it seems to me that they have no actual objection to redistribution, but that their actual objection is that the redirtribution not be specifically to themselves.  That strikes me as hypocritical.
Uncas
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21 posted 04-10-2011 05:26 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
One doesn't do it by raising corporate taxes so high that companies move their operations overseas


How would you raise revenue Mike?

.
Denise
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22 posted 04-10-2011 06:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

If more jobs are created in the private sector tax receipts would increase. Maybe we should give that a try.

We can elimate the deficit by cutting spending and increasing revenue without increasing anyone's taxes.

Maybe it would also help to close the loopholes for corporations like GE so that they will never again pay less taxes than I do while shipping jobs and potential tax receipts overseas.
Balladeer
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23 posted 04-10-2011 06:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Even without a Republican house, for the previous term, the Republicans did everything they could to bring everything to a coimplerte and utter standstill there, and took pride in doing an excellent job in doing so.

I'm afraid that falls under the category of balderdash, Bob. A democratic senate, House and WHite House could do anything they wanted. Whatever you allude to that the republicans did to stop them did not exist. There was nothing to stop them, as long as they stuck together. When there was a chance that a filibuster could tie up the health care bill, Obama simply kicked over the table and brought it in anyway, eliminating the filibuster possibilities.  All three majors - senate, House, and WHite House and you still blame republicans for stopping them...an amazing statement.

But for those guys who earn minimum of 27,000,000 per year, I'd like to see them pay as well. It's your contention, then, that they don't pay, Bob?

As I said, the "tax breaks for the rich" chant is used by the democrats to rile the masses and turn one segment of society against the other while, in reality, it means nothing. Double or triple the taxes against your "rich" and we still have the same problems. I brought up Kerry, Gore, Rangel and Holder simply to show that Democrats who use that same tired chant don't even follow it themselves, which makes it even more fake in it's delivery.

Uncas
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24 posted 04-10-2011 06:39 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


Ok Denise that's a start.

The GE thing? I'm with you 100%.

On the increased jobs? How many jobs do you think would be needed?

.
 
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