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Fact-checking Obama's speech on Libya

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Bob K
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125 posted 04-13-2011 01:31 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     As I understand it, G.E. is a corporation.  Corporations have many of the advantages of individuals, and if I understand the law around the subject, which I well may not, it is an individual in many important ways.  It may not hold office, though there has been talk of running corporations for office if some changes to the law can be made.

     To my mind, a corporation is a legal fiction behind which lawyers cower to protect the interests of the wealthy and those who would be wealthy.

     That is, however, only when I am in a prickly mood.  When I am not in such a mood, I simply don't care.
Denise
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126 posted 04-13-2011 06:06 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't know very much about the tax code either. My head swims just filling out the stuff I have to fill out.


moonbeam
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127 posted 04-13-2011 07:24 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

To my mind, a corporation is a legal fiction behind which lawyers cower to protect the interests of the wealthy and those who would be wealthy

Wow Bob, you need to get yourself on some of the anti-capitalist marches around the world .  That has to be about the most cynical definition of a Corporation (assuming Corporations are broadly the same as our Companies (Uncas?)).

Actually though, I know what you mean, Companies/Corporations can be misused like any other human invention can be misused.  Problem is that when the corporate structure and the protections it affords to individuals, is abused, a LOT of people can get hurt, and hurt badly.  It's kinda like handing a felon a AK47 and saying, "do what you want with it, and there will be no comeback on you!".

On the other hand, without the concept of limited liability, I do wonder whether capitalism itself, which largely relies on risk taking, could survive.

Would it be a bad thing if it didn't?

Just a few quick random thoughts. Sorry if I'm way off thread.
Uncas
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128 posted 04-13-2011 01:48 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Corporations are broadly the same as our Companies (Uncas?)


The American term Corporation is equivalent to the UK's term Limited Company.

Both are legal entities in their own right separate from the owners, meaning that both have limited liabilities - if a Corporation goes belly up the shareholder(s) only lose the amount invested in the company and the company loses all its assets, they are not required to reimburse creditors above and beyond that liability.

.
moonbeam
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129 posted 04-13-2011 04:21 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Thanks Uncas - I thought that was the case; always better to check with Uncas or Wiki though

Bob K
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130 posted 04-15-2011 02:31 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Actually, I am not anti-capitalist.  I am pro-democracy, however, and people often confuse the two.  I even own a little bit of stock.  I simply believe that companies have a responsibility not simply to their stockholders but also to the society and the environment.  Some companies take that responsibility seriously, others seem oblivious to even the notion that such a responsibility might exist.  BP acts responsibly in terms of its stock-holders, for example; but in terms of the environment and the society as a whole, I don't believe that it does.

     Some of the banks in the credit card business, to my mind, act in the same way as BP.  They seem predatory rather than cooperative with the needs of the economy and the country.  Banks that charge more than 20% per year interest on credit card debt, and some of them charge much more than that, closer to 30%, to my mind approach the ghoulish, and their rates are designed to victimize the poor and the middle class.  What they are doing is a milder version of the loan shark business.

     Certainly the Limited Liability Corporation is very useful for those protected by it.  It also helps protect against the consequenses of unethical behavior by management.  I can see why management and ownership is fond of it.  It serves useful purposes there.  It does not, however, encourage good citizenship.
Balladeer
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131 posted 04-15-2011 05:47 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

A milder version, Bob? When I was in the service, a fellow named Charlie would loan out cash between paydays for a 10% fee. It had to be done on the QT because it was illegal. Now, credit card companies charge up to 30% and it's not. Go figure...
moonbeam
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132 posted 04-16-2011 07:58 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Bob

I agree with just about all you say, especially about the antics of banks and their so called "financial products".  I hate the use of the word "product" in relation to what they offer - it denigrates the efforts of centuries of hard working people who actually DID produce things.

On limited liability - it offers personal protection to encourage risk taking, and like any other device of that nature it is easily open to abuse by the unscrupulous.  Our UK law is tightening all the time, especially where environmental issues are concerned, to "pierce the corporate veil" in instances of blatant negligence or deliberate recklessness.  But as things stand, I still feel that on balance it's a good thing.  25 years ago I (my company) borrowed 5m, and using it, we have provided small workspaces to hundreds of embryo businesses since that time.  There is no way I would have risked taking that loan in my personal capacity, and therefore no way that we could have provided that service.  That would have been a loss to us, sure, but also I believe a loss to society.  Depends whether you believe the good outweighs the bad I suppose.  And believe me, I have plenty of first hand knowledge of the bad - like the tenant who did a "moonlight" last month leaving a huge debt and a stack of illegal weedkiller in his unit for us to clear - and then put his company into liquidation.  Despite many such incidents over the years I am still broadly in favour of LL.  Unless you know of an alternative of course!?
 
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