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Peace Loving Progressives in Action

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Balladeer
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0 posted 02-04-2011 01:04 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.breitbart.tv/peace-loving-anti-capitalist-progressive-protesters-call-for-lynching-of-clarence-thomas/
Uncas
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1 posted 02-04-2011 01:16 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


I'm not sure about Clarence Thomas but I could have lynched number one son this week, he had a couple of friends round working on his car and left my garage in a right mess - tools everywhere and not one of them where it should be. I still can't find my 10mm spanner.

Just to cap things off I got a parking ticket today - I was only there two minutes  - damn  parking wardens, hang them all I say.


Denise
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2 posted 02-04-2011 05:33 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I guess they didn't get the message to tone down the heated political rhetoric. Oh, that was only directed at conservatives who don't actually call for people to be strung-up and other assorted acts of physical violence? My bad. I should have known that.
Uncas
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3 posted 02-04-2011 06:12 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


Personally I didn't buy all that hype about the right wing rhetoric being to blame for tragedy in Tucson , my guess is that the folk in the video didn't either.

Maybe they got the message and simply chose to ignore it.

Balladeer
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4 posted 02-04-2011 09:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

There was certainly enough conversation and finger pointing about the tea party and their evil, threatening, racial tactics. Where's Rachel, Chris and Keith to condemn this?

Never mind. We know.  
Denise
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5 posted 02-05-2011 07:25 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

They only 'report' as fact what they wish those on right would do. When those on the left actually do what they accuse the right of doing, all you here are *crickets chirping*. No surprise.
Uncas
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6 posted 02-05-2011 08:04 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

I'm not sure what your point is.

It can't be that what the people in the video are saying is dangerous rhetoric - we both agree that it isn't.

It can't be that the people in the video are somehow being hypocritical; that they railed against the rhetoric when it came from the right but are now using the same language themselves. To believe that you'd need evidence that they agreed, and voiced the opinion, that using such rhetoric was a bad thing before they did it themselves.

I suppose you could be criticising the folk who believed that the right wing rhetoric was bad, for not voicing the same opinion about what those left wing folk in the video said, but that doesn't make much sense either. You can't criticise them for voicing an opinion in the first instance and then in the next breath admonish them for not voicing the same opinion - that's like telling your kids to look both ways before crossing the street and then punishing them when they do what you ask.

Maybe they got your message the first time.

Personally I don't think this left wing rhetoric or the right wing rhetoric is a big deal, after all the alternative is to diminish free speech but if I were to grade them I'd say that based solely on who was voicing the rhetoric the right wing stuff was less excusable.

Maybe that's why those who claim that the right wing rhetoric was out of order aren't jumping up and down, perhaps they see a difference between public figures using such rhetoric and the local wingnut voicing the same rhetoric. That you need to point out the former and ignore the latter.

A chirpy cricket.

  
Denise
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7 posted 02-05-2011 08:56 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

They weren't just voicing an opinion the firt time around...they were outright lying. But when they have an opportunity to point out actual hate speech, they are silent.
Uncas
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8 posted 02-05-2011 09:19 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

So the right wing stuff wasn't dangerous but the left wing stuff is dangerous?

Sounds like a fip-flop to me Denise, either rhetoric that involves metaphors of violence is acceptable or it isn't. Allowing or disallowing it based on which side of the political fence it comes from sounds suspiciously similar to the accusation you were trying to pin on the chirping crickets.


Jack
Denise
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9 posted 02-05-2011 11:40 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, the right wing speech, while it can get heated, as it can on both sides, is not hate speech, is not calling for death or physical harm. This left wing stuff is.
Uncas
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10 posted 02-05-2011 12:39 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

Is my first post hate speech Denise? Or just a figure of speech?

I don't think the right-wing politicians actually intended for their supports to take them literally and I don't think those left-wing folk in the video actually intend to lynch anyone either. Could it incite someone else to act - sure - but anyone likely to do violence is just as likely to do it because their dog farted or it was a rainy Monday.

The left-wing stuff isn't hate speech for exactly the same reason the right-wing stuff isn't.

Jack
Denise
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11 posted 02-05-2011 05:20 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, your first post is not hate speech. In the context of the conversation you were obviously joking, Chirpy!

My point is that the right doesn't call for violence and death, some on the left do, and yet their pals in the media don't call them on it, and yet they are always attempting to portray the right in that light.
Uncas
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12 posted 02-05-2011 06:11 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
My point is that the right doesn't call for violence and death, some on the left do


Hmm..

Are you sure?

My guess is that it wouldn't take too long to find some examples of right wing folk making equally heated statements that they didn't actually mean.

Take this for instance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgec9WX21ik

The guy at the end sort of summed it up - people sometimes say stuff in the heat of the moment that they don't actually mean.

BTW - I found my spanner.



Jack
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13 posted 02-05-2011 07:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"After we impeach Clarence Thomas, put him back in the fields".
Roger? "kill the (unable to print)!"
Justice Hill? Cut off  the toes, one by one.."
Claerence Thomas? "String him up...and his wife, too."

Can you imagine, Denise, the coverage those comments would have gotten if they had come from a tea party rally instead of a progressive one? The $100,000 reward is still on the table for the mysterious "tea party spitter" (look at the coverage that one got). I guess racial comments against Clarence Thomas or discussing lynchings or murder, even for his wife, are not tht newsworth when they come from the left.

Balladeer
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14 posted 02-05-2011 09:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What DOES our esteemed right wing talk show hosts do with their time?

Rachel Maddow fooled by satirist blog, reports fake Sarah Palin story.
By Brooks On February 2nd, 2011


Unknowingly citing satirical website as fact source, ChristWire.org, Maddow reported Sarah Palin called for an American backed invasion of Egypt to protect America.

Because of many eye-raising things Sarah Palin has said in the past, itís temptingly easily and lazy to follow the momentum of an established narrative: Palin says crazy or woefully uninformed things. And, in that mindset be willing to believe a story because it sounds like something she might say.

This is not a common mistake for Rachel Maddow, but is is a common mistake for many in the media. But, for the moment, shame on Maddow and her staff for both falling into that mindset and for not checking with multiple sources to cross-check the story.  For the media, itís just another case of a story that sounds just too good for the media to fact check.

http://www.intellectualbubblegum.com/rachel-maddow-fooled-by-satirist-blog-reports-fake-sarah-palin-story/.html


In her show Maddow commented on Stephenson Billings of "Christwire" for his call for a US Invasion of Egypt led by none other than Sarah Palin.
The only problem is "Christwire" is a satire site similar to the Onion.
The clip was quickly pulled from the MSNBC site after the show. But, thankfully the internet never forgets so its out there on YouTube.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread658056/pg1



Afer being confronted with her gaffe, Maddow said, "Well, who's to know what is satire and what isn't?" Uh, perhaps someone who bothers to check out the facts before inserting foot in mouth? They don't make Rhodes scholars like they used to.
Bob K
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15 posted 02-06-2011 12:47 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The report you posted is not the report I recalled hearing, which very clearly stated that Sarah Palin had not made the comment, but that the Web Site was calling for her to make such a plea.

     I listened to the video, which actually did include the part that I remembered Ms. Maddow emphasizing.

     Ms. Maddow also mentioned as well that in the case of US foreign policy about Egypt these days, there was very much a centerist agreement on the matter that included large parts of both the Democratic and Republican Parties.  I personally felt this was an excellent thing, and was pleased to have Ms Maddow acknowledge a bit of BiPartisan activity in a U.S. Government that has felt to me as though it's been profoundly split and internally antagonistic for almost twenty years.  She did manage to talk about some folks who were outlier off the right coast, and to mind my, I thought that they were pretty much out to sea, including the guy who thought that this would be a wonderful time to stop all foreign aid.  

     I can't really see how that would improve anything.

     Did I mishear Ms Maddow on the original broadcast or on the rebroadcast that was offered as a source for the article?  Did the source distort the news and mislead Mike?  Am I misunderstanding something basic here that I should understand and need to be filled in on?

     What's the deal, commonweal?
Balladeer
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16 posted 02-06-2011 01:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You must have misheard, Bob, or perhaps formed your own interpretation of what was said. The simple fact that the network pulled it and Maddow had to follow with an excuse for her goof says it all.

She simply messed up. She went to a satirical website, took their satire as fact without bothering to substantiate it and reported it as news, a decision I feel fairly sure she regrets. No doubt MSNBC does.
Bob K
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17 posted 02-06-2011 04:48 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Perhaps: If so, I didn't see it.  And where does it say that the Network pulled her show, or even that edition of her show?  And at no point in her broadcast did she attribute the information from that site to Sarah Palin.  Even on the replay you cited, it was the same way.

     I have no objection to being corrected, I really do know I make mistakes.  In this case, though, I haven't seen any correction.  The quotes you offer seem to be in contrast to the actual statements that you're citing as evidence and I have no idea how to reconcile the difference.
Denise
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18 posted 02-06-2011 09:04 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Drop that spanner! Put your hands in the air and step slowly away...lol

I would guess that out of over millions who have participated in peaceful tea party demonstrations over the past 2 years it wouldn't be hard to find a few who lose it. But as the guy at the end of the video said, they aren't indicative of the attendees.

Yes, I can imagine, Michael. It would be splashed across the headlines and be the feature story on every program for days on end. Heck, they did that even when there was no evidence of right wing culpabiity in the Tucson tragedy.

Balladeer
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19 posted 02-06-2011 09:12 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

And where does it say that the Network pulled her show, or even that edition of her show?


It's right there in my above entry, Bob.

The clip was quickly pulled from the MSNBC site after the show. But, thankfully the internet never forgets so its out there on YouTube. " www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread658056/pg1  


Also, in that above entry you will see the quote Because of many eye-raising things Sarah Palin has said in the past, itís temptingly easily and lazy to follow the momentum of an established narrative: Palin says crazy or woefully uninformed things. And, in that mindset be willing to believe a story because it sounds like something she might say.

This may indicate to you that the site is not a right-wing rag. Actually, looking at it's topics, it's quite even in presenting both sides of issues. It knocks Palin and still says shame on Rachel for her non-verification.
Balladeer
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20 posted 02-06-2011 09:45 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You got that right, Denise. Why stop there? Answer these questions..

If George W. Bush had doubled the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?
  
If George W. Bush had criticized a state law that he admitted he never even read, would you think that he is just an ignorant hot head?
  
If George W. Bush joined the country of  Mexico  and sued a state in the  United States  to force that state to continue to allow illegal immigration, would you question his patriotism and wonder who's side he was on?
  
If George W. Bush had put 87000 workers out of work by arbitrarily placing a moratorium onoffshore oil drilling on companies that have one of the best safety records of any industry because one company had an accident would you have agreed?
  
If George W. Bush had used a forged document as the basis of the moratorium that would render 87000 American workers unemployed would you support him?

If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a TelePrompTer installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how  inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of  England  an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of  Saudi Arabia  , would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had visited  Austria  and made reference to the nonexistent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a  minor slip?
If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had stated that there were 57 states in the United States , would you have said that he is clueless?

If George W. Bush would have flown all the way to Denmark to make a five minute speech about how the Olympics would benefit him walking out his front door in Texas , would you havethought he was a self important, conceited, egotistical jerk.

If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May (Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?

If George W. Bush had misspelled the word "advice" would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoes as proof of what a dunce he is?

If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?

If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low  over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown   Manhattan   causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually  get what happened on 9-11?

If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in  New Orleans , would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue  with claims of racism and incompetence?

If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in  America  , would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved? He's done all this in 17 months.  

Are some of these silly? Of course. Would Bush have been barbequed for them? Of course.  
Uncas
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21 posted 02-06-2011 10:42 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in  America  , would you have approved?


I don't like the whole idea of Czars, it was a big mistake when the Republicans first introduced them as far as I'm concerned so I'm not too happy to see that Obama has appointed 41 and I was equally unhappy that Bush appointed 49.

Back to the topic:

Denise,

I'm still not clear what your point is.

You didn't think that the left should infer a connection between rhetoric and violent actions but you don't seem to be happy when they don't.

It's almost as if the left couldn't do anything right in your eyes, that you'd always try to find an angle to take pot shots at them.

That, and Mike's shopping list, got me thinking. Is there anything at all that the left has done, any idea they've come up or policy or legislation they've put in place that you actually agree with?

Jack
Denise
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22 posted 02-06-2011 11:11 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think it should be clear that I'm unhappy with the left's agenda and their hypocrisy. They project onto the right what they themselves actually do, while ceasely slandering those on the right, accusing them of things that they don't do.

No, I can't think of anything the left has done, policywise, that has strenghtened individual liberties or financial well-being in this country. Take a look at any major city in this country that is on the verge of bankruptcy. They are all controlled by the polices of the progressives, and they are all failing. Just take a look at my city, Philadelphia. When they were at the height of economic downturn, threatening to layoff police, firefighters, and paramedics, what do they do? They raise our real estate taxes by 10 percent, they raise the sales tax an additional 2 percent, bringing it to 8% (temporary, of course...lol), they freeze the wages of city employees at 2007 levels, freeze the city's portion of pension contributions (to be made up at a later date...lol), while still canceling police, firefighter and paramedic classes, they then START a program of paying for the college tuitions of 50 financially challenged city residents, per year. Talk about screwed up priorities. They don't even have enough money budgeted for adequate snow and ice removal for public safety, but they spend money we don't have on free college for people who are already eligible for grants, scholarships, and low interest loans.  
Local Rebel
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23 posted 02-06-2011 04:32 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

But it wonít do to dig up stray comments by Obama, Allen Grayson, or any other Democrat who used metaphors of combat over the past few years, and then try to claim some balance of responsibility in the implied violence of current American politics. (Most of the Obama quotes that appear in the comments were lame attempts to reassure his base that he can  get mad and fight back, i.e., signs that heís practically incapable of personal aggression in politics.) In fact, there is no balanceónone whatsoever. Only one side has made the rhetoric of armed revolt against an oppressive tyranny the guiding spirit of its grassroots movement and its midterm campaign. Only one side routinely invokes the Second Amendment as a form of swagger and intimidation, not-so-coyly conflating rights with threats. Only one sideís activists bring guns to democratic political gatherings. Only one side has a popular national TV host who uses his platform to indoctrinate viewers in the conviction that the President is an alien, totalitarian menace to the country. Only one side fills the AM waves with rage and incendiary falsehoods. Only one side has an iconic leader, with a devoted grassroots following, who canít stop using violent imagery and dividing her countrymen into us and them, real and fake. Any sentient American knows which side that is; to argue otherwise is disingenuous.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2011/01/tucson-revisited.html#ixzz1DDVJibKW



Denise
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24 posted 02-06-2011 05:58 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The liberals are still trying to tie Tucson to conservative speech but this guy takes it even further by excusing Obama for his rhetoric against the right as only lame attempts to bolster his base, while castigating Palin for not issuing a mea culpa after the tragedy! No, I don't see any twisted thinking there!

He also bemoans the fact that the AM airwaves are dominated by conservative speech, but there must be a reason why liberal talk radio always fails, like maybe nobody wants to listen to it? But no worries, the FCC is already pressuring local stations to use more local commentators in their lineup. Beck & Hannity were already taken off the air in Philadelphia, and Beck was already taken off in N.Y. The libs will get their Fairness Doctrine with or without Congress. Yep, that's the Obama way! Besides he fails to mention that the REST of the news media is owned lock, stock and barrel(oops...was that imagery too violent?), with the exception of one cable channel, by the left. But no problem there at all.

No, I wouldn't waste my time, energy or money subscribing to the New Yorker, if this guy is an example of what they offer. I prefer at least a modicum of intelligence in the analysists that I read.
 
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