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I Don't Get It

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Denise
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75 posted 02-10-2011 03:22 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Poor attempt at a cop-out on addressing the facts I presented about Beck's program and on not addressing Obama's blatant lie, Rob.

My not agreeing with Obama doesn't speak to my credibility, it speaks to my not agreeing with Obama's policies and actions.

Exactly what have I 'twisted' in order to fit in with an opinion? Do you have any examples?

I don't care to debate either. I'm just sharing my opinions. Others can to if they wish to....or not.

Yes, I suppose their old habits die hard, Michael. And I guess they really don't care that they look like fools.
Uncas
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76 posted 02-10-2011 04:00 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

Denise\Mike
You don't think Obama and the Democrats have done anything good at all, not one solitary single thing that has any merit?

Either you're right, and Obama is some sort of demon spawn of the devil, or you hate him so much you're unwilling to give him any credit whatsoever.

Of course there's another option - perhaps your knowledge of what he's done is incomplete.

This may help if it's the latter, here's some of the legislation that Obama and the Democrats have managed to put into place, do any of these have any merit?

Congressional pay raise, none for 2010
Congressional pay raise, none for 2011
Credit card regulations, tighten
Derivatives, government regulation of over-the-counter markets
Haiti, debt relief
Hate crimes, expand federal definition to include gender, sexual orientation, gender identity and disability
Iran, broad range of sanctions and penalties
PATRIOT Act, extend certain provisions

quote:
they really don't care that they look like fools.


I don't think Moonbeam, Bob or Reb look like fools Denise, mind you I've never met them so perhaps they do.

Balladeer
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77 posted 02-10-2011 04:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obviously, you are having a little tongue-in-cheek fun with Denise, since it is obvious her comment was aimed at my examples of Obama, Clinton and Gore, not at our esteemed fellow Allyers.

Your comment about the possibility of our hating Obama is equally off the mark. Has anyone ever said about hating him? I think he's a fairly nice enough fellow. I'd have a beer with him or even shoot a few hoops. I can call him incompetent and unqualitied in his job performance without hating him.

I'll be happy to concede to your examples, especially since I know you put in time trying to find something. I don't recalled any of those being brought up in the Alley as being virtuous decisions on Obama's part but that's fine, too.

You can put all of those things on the plus side against what we have put on the negative side and I would welcome the comparison. He's quadrupled the national debt but not given a raise to congressmen. Ok. He's brought a large range of sanctions against Iran (which have not seemed to have any effect) while he tried to slip in cap and trade. I'll be happy to stand by my list as you stand by yours. But that's not the point, is it? Since we said, there was nothing we felt he had done in a positive way to generate applause, you decided to find something, anything, that would prove that to be invalid. Ok, mission accomplished.

I'll add something else I like about him. He failed to close Gitmo, after swearing to do so over a year ago...another good decision on his part.
Huan Yi
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78 posted 02-10-2011 05:00 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/10/nbcs_richard_engel_clappers_comment_was_a_head_snap_moment.html


.
Uncas
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79 posted 02-10-2011 05:48 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Obviously, you are having a little tongue-in-cheek fun with Denise


Guilty as charged Mike, I couldn't resist making light of the possible double entendre. I knew Denise's target was really the type of folk who say stuff that's untrue and look like fools when they correct themselves when pressed.



quote:
Your comment about the possibility of our hating Obama is equally off the mark. Has anyone ever said about hating him?


Maybe hate is too strong a word Mike, what would be a good word for the act of believing that someone never did anything good or of any merit in spite of the fact that there are obvious examples to the contrary?

quote:
I'll be happy to concede to your examples


Does that mean your previous statement was untrue Mike?


Balladeer
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80 posted 02-10-2011 06:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Still the game player....some things don't change, do they?

Ok,I'll give you more. Obama dresses well. His hair is always combed. He gives good speeches, whether they are true or not. He always keeps his shoes shined and it appears he has a good hook shot.

My statement was incomplete, based on levels of importance with regards to the good of the country, in my opinion. Had I known there was going to be an expedition to find anything at all, regardless of how minute, he may have done with positive results I wouldn't have made it....and I should have known better, based on previous discussions we have had, where you came with the same tactics.

That's fine. If you wish to begin a thread extolling the virtue of his freezing congressional pay raises, I promise to jump in with an "Attaboy, Obama!! Way to go!!"  

Say goodnight, Gracie...
Uncas
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81 posted 02-10-2011 07:49 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

quote:
Still the game player....some things don't change, do they?


If you mean that I'm still pointing out the difference between what people say and the actual facts then yes, some things don't change.

You see I'm with Denise on this one, when people say stuff with firm conviction that they know is blatantly untrue they tend to look a little foolish when, after they're called on it, they start backpedalling as if it's an Olympic event. I'm a firm believer that we should judge ourselves by the same standards we judge others and that it's a little hypocritical to criticise what others are doing while busy doing the exact same thing ourselves. It makes us look.. well foolish.

By the way, I believe the actual quote you were aiming for was "Say goodnight Gracie" (edit: I see you've changed it   )

"'Say goodnight, Gracie' has later been used as a jokey remark, spoken as if by George Burns, after some utterance that might have been said by the scatterbrain character that Gracie Allen adopted for the Burns and Allen shows."

I openly admit to being a little scatterbrained Mike, but I still recognise an "incomplete statement" when I see one.

  
Balladeer
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82 posted 02-10-2011 07:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, actually, "say goodnight, Gracie" was followed by a "goodnight, Gracie", signifying the end of the show.
Denise
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83 posted 02-10-2011 08:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hahaha..good one, Chirpy! You are quite the jokester at times!

As to any so-called good they have done (something ususally involving even more government regulation and intrusion, which then usually makes it bad) is far outweighed by the bad they have done.

If someone is smashing you over the head with a hammer would you notice, or even care, that he doesn't beat his wife and is kind to his dog?

Thanks for sharing that link, John. I also did a head-snap when I heard James Clapper make that ridiculous statement that the Muslim Brotherhood is mostly secular in nature. I can't believe we have such imcompetent people in our intelligence agencies. Can they really be that ill-informed?

And then we have our President again today with a message to the Egyptian people, particulary those leading the protests:

"What is absolutely clear is we are witnessing history unfold. It's a moment of transformation taking place because the people of Egypt are calling for change."

Noting that "extraordinary numbers" of Egyptians from all walks of life have joined the protests, Obama told an audience at Northern Michigan University that "it's young people who've been at the forefront, a new generation, your generation, who want their voices to be heard."

He is using his influence, which is fueling the fervor of the revolutionary element that is already threatening to explode and topple the government leaving a power vacuum that could lead to chaos, instead of siding with the plan for elections in September that would lend order and stability to a transition.

And it's strange that he 'hears the Egyptian people' when he can't even hear the people in his own country.


Denise
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84 posted 02-11-2011 06:07 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Have a look at some of the behind-the-scenes goings-on. I don't know why I was surprised, but I was.

quote:
Soros himself last Friday made public statements in support of the protests in Egypt, which the Mubarak government has warned will result in the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in the country.

In a Washington Post editorial entitled, "Why Obama Has to Get Egypt Right," Soros recognized that if free elections were held in Egypt, "the Brotherhood is bound to emerge as a major political force, though it is far from assured of a majority."

Soros fingerprints on Mideast chaos

The International Crisis Group, or ICG, which includes Soros among its eight executive committee members, long has petitioned for the Egyptian government to normalize ties with the Muslim Brotherhood.

The ICG also released a report urging the Egyptian regime to allow the Brotherhood to establish an Islamist political party.

The ICG includes on its board Mohamed ElBaradei, one of the main opposition leaders in Egypt, as well as other personalities who champion dialogue with Hamas, a violent offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

In a June 2008 report entitled, "Egypt's Muslim Brothers Confrontation or Integration," Soros' ICG urges the Egyptian regime to allow the group to participate in political life.

The report dismisses Egypt's longstanding government crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood as "dangerously short-sighted."

The ICG report called on Mubarak's regime to "pave the way for the regularization of the Muslim Brothers' participation in political life," including by allowing for the "establishment of a political party with religious reference."

The ICG specifically stressed allowing the Brotherhood to serve as an Islamist party several times in its 2008 report.

The ICG and its personalities also long have petitioned for the Muslim Brotherhood to be allowed to join the Egyptian government.

ElBaradei suspended his board membership in the ICG two weeks ago, after he returned to Egypt to lead the anti-Mubarak protests.

U.S. board members include Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was national security adviser to Jimmy Carter; Samuel Berger, who was Bill Clinton's national security adviser; and retired U.S. ambassador Thomas Pickering, who made headlines in 2009 after meeting with Hamas leaders and calling for the U.S. to open ties to the Islamist group.

Another ICG member is Robert Malley, a former adviser to Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign. He resigned after it was exposed he had communicated with Hamas.  Malley long had petitioned for dialogue with Hamas.

The ICG defines itself as an "independent, non-profit, multinational organization, with 100 staff members on five continents, working through field-based analysis and high-level advocacy to prevent and resolve deadly conflict."

Meanwhile, Soros also has other ties to opposition groups in the Middle East.
His Open Society Institute's Middle East and North Africa Initiative has provided numerous grants to a wide range of projects that promote so-called democratic issues across the region, including in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood stands to gain from any future election.

Soros' Open Society also funded the main opposition voice in Tunisia, Radio Kalima, which championed the riots there that led to the ouster of President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali.

In September, Soros' group was looking to expand its operations in Egypt by hiring a new project manager for its Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, which is run in partnership with the Open Society Justice Initiative. The group is seeking to develop a national network of legal empowerment actors for referral of public-interest law cases. Such organizations in the past have helped represent Muslim Brotherhood leaders seeking election or more authority in the country.

Soros himself last Friday made public statements in support of the protests in Egypt, which the Mubarak government has warned will result in the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in the country.

In a Washington Post editorial entitled, "Why Obama Has to Get Egypt Right," Soros recognized that if free elections were held in Egypt, "the Brotherhood is bound to emerge as a major political force, though it is far from assured of a majority.

He stated the U.S. has "much to gain by moving out in front and siding with the public demand for dignity and democracy" in Egypt.

He claimed the "Muslim Brotherhood's cooperation with Mohamed ElBaradei … is a hopeful sign that it intends to play a constructive role in a democratic political system."

Soros did not mention his ties to ElBaradei.

Soros did, however, single out Israel as "the main stumbling block" in paving the way toward transition in the Middle East."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=262077


Bob K
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85 posted 02-12-2011 03:07 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Thank you for your posting, Denise.

     Perhaps you disagree, and Feel instead that Obama does not have to get this right in Egypt?

     My impression has been that you in fact do agree, and that you too believe that President Obama does have to get it right in Egypt.  I suspect that most political parties would generally agree with that opinion.

     My understanding is that your disagreement is with what, exactly, it means to get things right in Egypt.

     You go ahead and speak at some length about what is wrong with Mr. Soros, as is your right.

     If the Egyptians want to have The Muslim Brotherhood represented in their Government, why should they not have The Muslim Government represented in their Government.  It is not the United States Government we are talking about, after all; it is the Egyptian Government, and we are not part of that electorate.  We do not get a vote.

     You sound outraged to me that we do not get a vote about this.  Perhaps I mishear you.  

     You don't have to like Egyptian public opinion.  I often do not.  But the Muslim Brotherhood has more of a legitimate role in Egyptian public opinion than either of us.  President Mubarak does not want to include the Muslim Brotherhood for very good reasons.  One of them happens to be that they oppose him politically, and when and if they vote, it is likely they will help vote him out of office.  That does not in itself make Murbrak right and The Muslim Brotherhood Wrong.

     My own opinion is that they're both probably wrong, for what my opinion's worth.

     If you don't think Israel isn't a disruptive force in middle eastern politics, you probably haven't been paying attention.  Almost everybody's a disruptive force in middle eastern politics.  I include the Iranian''s, The Iraqis, The Jordanians, The Israelis, The Egyptians, the Saudis, The Syrians, The Turks, The Russians, The Americans, The French, The Brits and the Penguins.  The Chinese are players as well, I'm reasonably certain.

     The dangers of large flightless land birds are yet to be correctly evaluated in the balance of world power.

     Where I am afraid we get into trouble is when we start telling other countries who they should be allowed to have represented in their elections and political discussions.  I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the people I know will benefit from enforcing those rules are the foreigners who make them, and not necessarily the country for whom the rules are supposed to be made.  And that is asking for trouble where no trouble need be.

    

    

    
Uncas
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86 posted 02-12-2011 06:05 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
No, actually, "say goodnight, Gracie" was followed by a "goodnight, Gracie", signifying the end of the show.


At the risk of starting another bout of Olympic back-pedalling Mike - you're wrong.

Gracie Allen simply said "Goodnight".



quote:
As to any so-called good they have done (something ususally involving even more government regulation and intrusion, which then usually makes it bad) is far outweighed by the bad they have done.


Whether the bad that you considered they'd done outweighed the good wasn't the question Denise. The question, which both you and Mike answered with an absolutely definitive "NO!", was: "Have they done anything good or of any merit".

Denying the good people do isn't, unfortunately, that unusual, it happens so often in fact that a term has been coined to describe it - it's called demonization.

.
Balladeer
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87 posted 02-12-2011 07:44 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

At the risk of starting another bout of Olympic back-pedalling Mike

As was before, your personal insults are becoming tiring once again. Whether its goodnight, Gracie or just goodnight....it's goodnight to you.
Uncas
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88 posted 02-12-2011 10:21 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
You would think that people that visible in the public eye would know that everything they say and do is recorded somewhere but they talk so fast they must forget.


quote:
They act like they they can lie and not get caught, even in this information age. I guess old habits are hard to break.


I agree entirely Mike, Clinton and Gore should engage their brain before putting their mouth into gear.



quote:
As was before, your personal insults are becoming tiring once again.


I don't think it was a personal insult Mike and I can't recall insulting you previously either, however, I could be wrong. If you think it is a personal insult click the little inappropriate content button at the top right of my post and I'm sure that site administrators will look into it.

.
Denise
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89 posted 02-12-2011 10:40 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I didn't speak at length about Soros, Bob, Aaron Klein did. I can't take credit for his well reserached article.

We have no more right to a voice in Egypt than do the puppetmasters behind the scenes insinutating themselves into the affairs of Egypt with the intent to bring down the government to install a new one more in line with their agenda through their money and policital influence.

Saying that any good is so miniscule as to be of no consequence when weighed against the harm they are doing, isn't denying the good or demonizing the actors, Craig, it'a simply my opinion based on my worldview, which is the polar opposite of their worldview. I'd guess that the socialists, communists, Islamists and anarchists have a different view of this administration based on their own worldviews.

Here is an informative clip from the Glenn Beck show yesterday, and below it a pdf file on a report called the 'Red-Green Alliance'.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beck-warns-of-red-green-alliance-the-cairo-connection/
Essorant
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90 posted 02-12-2011 10:48 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


quote:
We aim to achieve reform and rights for all: not just for the Muslim Brotherhood, not just for Muslims, but for all Egyptians. We do not intend to take a dominant role in the forthcoming political transition. We are not putting forward a candidate for the presidential elections scheduled for September. [...]

As our nation heads toward liberty, however, we disagree with the claims that the only options in Egypt are a purely secular, liberal democracy or an authoritarian theocracy. Secular liberal democracy of the American and European variety, with its firm rejection of religion in public life, is not the exclusive model for a legitimate democracy.

In Egypt, religion continues to be an important part of our culture and heritage. Moving forward, we envision the establishment of a democratic, civil state that draws on universal measures of freedom and justice, which are central Islamic values. We embrace democracy not as a foreign concept that must be reconciled with tradition, but as a set of principles and objectives that are inherently compatible with and reinforce Islamic tenets.

The tyranny of autocratic rule must give way to immediate reform: the demonstration of a serious commitment to change, the granting of freedoms to all and the transition toward democracy. The Muslim Brotherhood stands firmly behind the demands of the Egyptian people as a whole.

Steady, gradual reform must begin now, and it must begin on the terms that have been called for by millions of Egyptians over the past weeks. Change does not happen overnight, but the call for change did — and it will lead us to a new beginning rooted in justice and progress.

[From the Muslim Brotherhood's English website: ]http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=28004]
Uncas
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91 posted 02-12-2011 11:44 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

Thanks for the link Denise.

Beck is always good for a laugh but this time he's surpassed himself. There's a link between all the groups who don't like the suppression of Palestinians by the Israelis? Don't tell me, let me guess - is it perchance that they are all opposed to Israel and it's apartheid policies?

It must be a conspiracy - I mean, lots of disparate organisations and groups couldn't, independently, all come the same conclusion that some of the stuff Israel does isn't very nice.

Unless of course some of the stuff Israel does is, in fact, not very nice.

Come to think of it I don't think Israel cover themselves in much glory most of the time - does that make me a Muslim Brother?

Denise
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92 posted 02-12-2011 11:53 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

A more in depth look comes from the words of their leader, Mustafa Mashhur in his book, “Jihad is the Way”, the last of a five-volume work, “The Laws of Da’wa”.
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=207415
Denise
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93 posted 02-12-2011 12:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Not at all, Craig, unless of course you are a member.

The point is that all the disparate groups are banding together, to maximize their political clout against what they perceive to be their common enemy, Israel, capitalism, and Westernern civilization in general, to inflame discontent and breed instability and eventual insurrection worldwide. Only when they achieve that goal will they turn on each other.
Uncas
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94 posted 02-12-2011 12:50 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Not at all, Craig, unless of course you are a member.


Beck may disagree, according to his crazy conspiracy theory there are hundreds of groups and individuals all pulling together to overthrow Israel based on the flimsy evidence that they all share a common dislike of some of the actions of Israel.

Beck points to an open conference in Egypt organised  to discuss Israel's suppression of the Palestinians and lots to the groups and individuals who turned up. According to Beck people with common beliefs banding together to discuss them is clear evidence of an evil pact to take over the world.

quote:
The point is that all the disparate groups are banding together, to maximize their political clout against what they perceive to be their common enemy


And?

I don't see anything wrong with people banding together in a common cause Denise, I take it that, deep down,  you don't either if your support for the Tea Party movement is anything to go by. I may not agree with the cause of any group, or individual for that matter, but I don't have an issue with like minded folk getting together and pursuing that cause via legitimate means. Why should I discriminate against one group amongst many simply because I don't agree with them?

Dave
Denise
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95 posted 02-12-2011 02:43 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The goal of the groups banding together is what should be focused on, not merely the fact that they are banding together.

They are in an entirely different category, goal-wise than the Tea Party. The Tea Party does not call for destabilization, chaos and insurrection, as the other groups do. And yes, Beck featured clips of several of them in their own words calling for just such revolution. That doesn't qualify as a conspiracy 'theory' when the proof is presented. That takes it from theory to fact, in my mind.
Uncas
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96 posted 02-12-2011 04:21 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
Beck featured clips of several of them in their own words calling for just such revolution


Well if Beck showed a couple of clips I guess revolution must be a bad thing then.

You had a revolution if my memory serves me right Denise. How do you think that worked out for you? Pretty good I guess. So why is it automatically bad if other folk decide to have one of their own?

quote:
That doesn't qualify as a conspiracy 'theory' when the proof is presented.


Beck's theory is that all the groups and individuals who attended a conference on Israel's continued suppression of the Palestinians are conspiring to overthrow Israel. Granted some of the groups think that overthrowing Israel would be a good thing, others though simply want Israel to stop suppressing the Palestinians and some just want peace and love and for everyone to get along.

Beck shows a couple of clips of radicals as evidence and paints anyone and everyone with the same brush. Sound familiar? Republicans want people to shoot Dems and all progressives want to hang Republicans?

In Becks head CND,  the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, Jews against Palestinian suppression, Canadian gays against apartheid, the Muslim Brotherhood, Communists, Socialists, the unions, Liberals and uncle Tom Cobley and all are huddling in a corner conspiring to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

Bob K
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97 posted 02-13-2011 01:32 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     What are the Right Wing groups banding together for, Denise?  The comments of the various Right Wing Folk seem to be talking  about what Egypt does and doesn't have a right to do with its own government.  We can say what we want, but the determination ought to be Egyptian.

     If any actions are taken that impinge on us or our allies in military terms, then we have cause for action on our own part and, potentially, in support of our allies.

     I have several problems with the way that Israel is managing its affairs.  I disapprove of its internal notions of civil rights and civil liberties, but I am not part of that society.  I can disapprove and write letters and urge action and that's about it.  I believe that Israel's external actions have on several occasions brought us very close to war, once, in 1956, with the Soviet Union.  And its foreign policy since '67 has skirted war with several other middle eastern countries.  Sometimes the other middle eastern countries have the majority of the fault, sometimes I believe Israel has.  They have been a difficult ally.  I have had family and friends living there, and some of them have had difficulty with that government from time to time, and some of them think things have been managed well by the Israeli side.

     I refuse to believe, however, that, simply because a country is an ally of the United States, it can do no evil.  I've had trouble with other US allies as well, including Great Britain, France, Turkey, Spain, Mexico and Canada.  And they have had trouble with us.

     Being an ally means that our political interests run in the same direction and that our governments treat each other as friends.  Sometimes the two populations treat each other in a friendly fashion as well.  I've never seen anything about the notion of being allied that suggests that one is supposed to pretend that one's allies can do no wrong.  

     I believe that we have been somewhat remiss in our pretense that Israel is more perfect in some way than other allies, and that its faults should not be acknowledged and that on occasion serious pressure should not be applied.  

     Keep in mind that their notion of being a US ally has included running espionage operation against the US government and its interests, from time to time.  I like the notion of a Jewish State.  I admire the Israelis in many ways.  I simply suggest that we like and admire them on a more realistic basis.
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98 posted 02-13-2011 05:54 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Actually it was kind of refreshing Mike, to see you making some positive comments about Obama - thank you  

Denise, still entrenched in unreality though!  Even citing Beck again - which, given that the sane conservatives in the US are now openly questioning his mental state, rather confirms where you stand.  
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/Vox-News/2011/0212/W hy-is-Glenn-Beck-freaking-out-over-Egypt-and-a-caliphate

Of course, you are perfectly entitled to hold extreme right wing views if you want to, you are equally entitled to take the line that everyone else is always wrong, and to never see any good in the left, or what you call the "socialist" agenda.  But there's little point in arguing with a rock, and I am not sure the rock would be reasonable in labelling it a "cop out" if people didn't want to waste time debating with it.

It's kind of weird for me actually because by UK standards I'm conservative/Conservative - I actually wanted Bush to be elected and I supported his attack on Iraq for instance (later I became less sure that it was right, mainly due to the lack of post occupation planning).  But the views of some on your right wing in the US are truly frightening.  Not a million miles way from the motivations of some of the worst dictatorships the world has seen imo.  And if Palin, or anyone like her, ever gets near the White House, I shall believe that 100 years is enough to wipe out the memories of two World Wars.

moonbeam
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"Of course, the conspiracy goes deeper than Beck has yet revealed,” writes Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic. “I'm hoping that, in coming days, if the Freemasons, working in concert with Hezbollah and the Washington Redskins, don't succeed in suppressing the truth, that Beck will reveal the identities of the most pernicious players in this grotesque campaign to subvert our way of life.”

“I can't reveal too much here,” Goldberg writes. “But I think it's fair to say that Beck will be paying a lot of attention in the coming weeks to the dastardly, pro-caliphate work of Joy Behar; the makers of Little Debbie snack cakes; the 1980s hair band Def Leppard; Omar Sharif; and the Automobile Association of America. And remember, you read it here first.”

Now! do you get it Denise?
 
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