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Stuxnet

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Stephanos
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since 07-31-2000
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Statesboro, GA, USA


25 posted 10-05-2012 09:54 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Ess:
quote:
No one is preventing Israel from existing as a state, it is Israel that is preventing Palestine from existing and taking every step to make sure it never will exist.


That's not true Ess ... in the history of Israeli / Palestinian negotiations, a two-state solution has almost always been accepted by Israel, though they've been unwilling to give as much land as the Palestinians have demanded.  The Palestinian position has been much more unyielding, since they've stated over and over that Israel should not exist as a state.  Many times negotiations were refused on part of the Palestinians, because of Israel's demand for recognition of statehood.  The Palestinian "right to return" ideas, have typically been about getting enough Palestinian population into Israel that Israel would be dissolved by population majority.  Anyone who thinks dissolution of Israel is not the Palestinian goal, is fooling themselves.

I can cite many of these things to back them up.  

Stephen      
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


26 posted 10-06-2012 03:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
That's not true Ess ... in the history of Israeli / Palestinian negotiations, a two-state solution has almost always been accepted by Israel, though they've been unwilling to give as much land as the Palestinians have demanded.


You need to look at the reasons from the Palestinian perspective as well Stephanos.    We don't get things from that side very much because our media is lopsidedly pro-Israel.   Here are some interesting articles about Camp David negotiations and another about the Palestinian Papers.

http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0309.htm
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles3/0545.htm

Israel has always tried to monopolize and determine what the Palestinians should accept as their "state." And the history of the negotiations and the actions on the ground always moved in the same direction: less land for the Palestinians and either little difference in lack of freedom, the same, or more Israeli intereference, walls, checkpoints, etc. in the occupied territories. The proposals haven't been for a true state but for the Palestinians to give into something that would mean sacrificing more land and accepting something far less than true freedom and self-determination for something still essentially occupied by Israel but expected to be considered their own "state."

quote:
The Palestinian position has been much more unyielding, since they've stated over and over that Israel should not exist as a state


They have unambiguously acknowledged Israel as a state in recent decades Stephanos.     The problem is with acknowledging it as "Jewish" state.    The founding of Israel wasn't just the founding of a state, but the founding of an apartheidic state that forced as many Palestinians out of the way as possible to establish a Jew-dominated land.  The Palestinian refugees simply wish to be able to return to their homeland just as Jews today and many that weren't even born there have a right to it as their homeland.   Why can't they?  Because Israel will only let Jews be the majority.  Two peoples, Jews and predominately non-Jewish Palestinians can't live equally together in their homeland when Israel only allows Jews to be a majority in more than 80% of the land that is the homeland of both peoples.

The majority of Palestinians aren't just locked out of the majority of their homeland but out of having a state of their own on the little left to them.  Israel continues its military occupation and taking more and more land which is supposed to be for a Palestinian state for its own illegal settlements.   It doesn't allow co-existence between the two majorities as one state but it doesn't allow two states to exist for the two people either; it only allows an apartheid where the land of the Jewish majority always gets to expand but the land left to the Palestinian majority only gets to shrink along with the hope for any Palestinian state.     Anyone with understanding can see where that set up is going - it follows the direction of the Zionist claim that Israel has an inherent right to all of the land formerly called Palestine, not just some of it, and will stick to it as long as it takes to get it.  

Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


27 posted 01-16-2013 05:35 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Siemens control systems run most of the nuclear facilities in the US, the Hydro electric generators, industrial infrastructure in manufacturing plants, temperature and climate control in hospitals and public facilities - the list goes on and on.

Right now some sixteen year old C++ programmer in Bosnia or Egypt is probably working out how to modify Stuxnet to blow up the boiler in a kindergarten, Mosque or Synagogue near you.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414371,00.asp
 
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