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Girl With Nose Cut Off On Time Mag Cover

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Huan Yi
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0 posted 08-08-2010 05:20 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html


Think that changed any minds?


.
Grinch
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1 posted 08-08-2010 06:24 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Changed minds about what?

.
Juju
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2 posted 08-08-2010 06:42 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

So many questions...

Perhaps humanity's weaknesses come in all shapes and sizes.

-Juju

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thoughts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos
Denise
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3 posted 08-08-2010 09:26 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

This is an example of how Sharia values women. It is utterly barbaric and shouldn't be countenanced in any society.
Bob K
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4 posted 08-09-2010 04:07 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Changed any minds about what, John?

     Whether or not we should be fighting in countries that oppress women?

     Some people, myself among them, feel that the United States oppresses women in many ways, and is seeking ways to oppress them more completely.  Are you suggesting we should be fighting a government that tries to roll back abortion rights?

     I suspect not.

     What about Female circumcision, such as is the custom in some countries that are allies of The United States, such as Egypt?  Should we declare war on Egypt?

     Perhaps you believe we ought to.

     What about countries that offer unrestricted abortion rights?  Don't you believe that that is something that is murder?  Don't you believe we should be fighting people who do that?  Perhaps we should declare war on, say, Canada or some of the Scandinavian countries?

     We are already at war with the Taliban, as far as I understand things.  Perhaps we could pass a law that would make a Super Duper at war with the Taliban?

     Nobody says you have to like sharia, but it is only the law in those parts of Afghanistan that are controlled by the Taliban.  We are working as allies of the Karzai government there, and it is up to them what accommodation they intend to reach with the Taliban unless we wish to say that the Karzai government is not legitimate.  That government is certainly more legitimate in their country, however we may feel about them, than we are.

     Why not offer some sort of justification for some set of actions in Afghanistan rather than simply suggesting that cutting off somebody's ears and nose are barbaric.  I agree that these actions are hideous and barbaric.  I want to know what you suggest we do about it, and why.

     Suggesting the picture and the actions behind the picture are repulsive doesn't distinguish your position from mine, and I see no need to change our actions in Afghanistan on the basis of this repulsive picture.  If you do, what changes do you suggest?  And why do you suggest them?
Balladeer
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5 posted 08-09-2010 08:35 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Some people, myself among them, feel that the United States oppresses women in many ways

Quite a comparison..

I guess the inference is that we are no better, John..
Juju
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6 posted 08-09-2010 09:53 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I think (I could be wrong)the problem is instead of going after the men who maimed this poor young lady, we are making her a marter to spread fear "amongst ourchildren."

Not everyone who Islamic thinks this is right, contrary to what the media says, however far to many think it is. I am shocked that these men are not being hunted down for war crimes. That is what should be happening.

Disgusting.

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thoughts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos

JenniferMaxwell
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7 posted 08-09-2010 10:25 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

We lost the moral high ground when Bush ordered the Shock and Awe bombing of Baghdad, a city with a population made up of approximately 50 - 60 % of children under the age of 16,
http://www.the7thfire.com/Iraq_War/us_war_crimes_in_iraq.htm

when we dropped clusters bombs on civilian areas “liberating” children from their limbs, eyes and very lives.


“The horror. The horror. And unlike Apocalypse Now, there are real, not fictional images to prove it. But they won't be seen in Western homes. The new heart of darkness has emerged in the turbulent history of Mesopotamia via the Hilla massacre. After uninterrupted, furious American bombing on Monday night and Tuesday morning, as of Wednesday night there were at least 61 dead Iraqi civilians and more than 450 seriously injured in the region of Hilla, 80 kilometers south of Baghdad. Most are children: 60 percent of Iraq's population of roughly 24 million are children.

Roland Huguenin-Benjamin, a spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in Iraq, describes what happened in Hilla as "a horror, dozens of severed bodies and scattered limbs". Initially, Murtada Abbas, the director of Hilla hospital, was questioned about the bombing only by Iraqi journalists - and only Arab cameramen working for Reuters and Associated Press were allowed on site. What they filmed is horror itself - the first images shot by Western news agencies of what is also happening on the Iraqi frontlines: babies cut in half, amputated limbs, kids with their faces a web of deep cuts caused by American shellfire and cluster bombs. Nobody in the West will ever see these images because they were censored by editors in Baghdad: only a "soft" version made it to worldwide TV distribution. “
Juju
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8 posted 08-09-2010 10:32 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Would you mind clarifying the point of your example? I am not sure what this has to do with this girl in afganistan.  Sorry. I am not to smart.

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thoughts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos

JenniferMaxwell
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9 posted 08-09-2010 10:49 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The point is, we have maimed women and children too.
Huan Yi
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10 posted 08-09-2010 11:42 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Terrible things happen even to good people all the time.
There are mass graves and severed heads just south of our own border
yet no one suggests we send in the Marines, (let alone lose some of them),
until those decapitated bodies start showing up in Dallas.

We are over there not because of what they do there
but because of what they want to help export here.

We’re not under any obligation otherwise to civilize the whole world,
(regardless of who is suffering though I would much prefer out of
political correctness that they were Western white men),  just to do
what we can in that part we call our own.

.
Balladeer
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11 posted 08-09-2010 02:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The point is, apparently, Juju, that our killing of women as casualties of war is the same as cutting off noses and ears of women who want to get away from their in-laws. When we start cutting off body parts of our own women from trying to get out of abusive relationships, I may buy it.
Grinch
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12 posted 08-09-2010 03:34 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I wonder, how often does extreme marital violence like this happen in Afghanistan? Is it commonplace or a rare event?

.
JenniferMaxwell
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13 posted 08-09-2010 03:53 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

No we don’t cut off body parts for leaving an abusive relationship, but we did (and still do) blow up innocent civilians, women and children, leaving a bloody trail of body parts across Iraq and Afghanistan damning us as the ashes from 9/11 damn those who committed that atrocity. Nine years in Afghanistan, civilians are still being killed by our troops and women like Bibi Aisha are still suffering. Heck of a job, Brownie.

Balladeer
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14 posted 08-09-2010 04:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Afraid I have to remain in the dark with Juju, in not knowing how this relates to the girl on the cover. I realize she has served as a springboard for going off on many tangents but, unless the bombing of Baghdad caused her relatives to cut off her nose and ears, I don't see it.
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15 posted 08-09-2010 04:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No need to wonder, Grinch. Just type marital violence Afghanistan in your search engine and you will get your answer. Here's one...http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/domestic_violence.html
Grinch
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16 posted 08-09-2010 04:55 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Do you think marital violence is less prevalent in the west Mike?

.
Huan Yi
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17 posted 08-09-2010 05:00 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Certainly less sanctioned

But the days of suttee ending are over.

.
Balladeer
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18 posted 08-09-2010 05:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It is certainly less tolerated....and punishable. It is not sanctioned.
Juju
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19 posted 08-09-2010 08:00 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

That has nothing to do with what I am saying.

I am simply saying that by maiming that girls face those poeple should be charged with war crimes and be hunted down.  

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thoughts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos

Bob K
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20 posted 08-09-2010 10:35 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     The woman was treated cruelly and immorally according to my values, but not illegally.  We allow children to be executed, which most of the rest of the world condemns as cruel and immoral, but which we consider legal.  The world has not declared war on us for our immoral treatment of children according to their values.  And we have not declared war on Afghanistan for their cruel and unreasonable treatment of women.  We should be involved in an international attempt to change afghani law on this matter, I believe, but we did not declare war and ship a hundred thousand plus troops and a like number of contractors over there because of this.

     If we had, there would a declaration of war, and there isn't, with that reason written across the top.  

     We went over because the Taliban gave sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden.  Bin Ladin is gone.  The Taliban left and then came back.  We may be there now because we have a quarrel with the Taliban, but if that is so, it's a pretty pathetic quarrel because reportedly Karzai is treating with them, and he is our ally.  The business about the woman who has been mutilated is horrific, but mutilation of women happens in Pakistan as well, and Pakistan is our ally.  

     If John's logic is true logic, we should be invading Pakistan and all of the other countries in which is custom hold sway.  We haven't dome so and aren't even pretending to do so, since that would put us in conflict with, among other countries, Russia, wouldn't it?  The argument is specious, though the practice is hideous and we should be involved in attempting to curb it.

[Edited - Ron]

[Edited - Ron]

[Edited - Ron]

[This message has been edited by Ron (08-10-2010 10:31 AM).]

Huan Yi
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21 posted 08-09-2010 11:25 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

  "If John's logic is true logic, we should be invading Pakistan and all of the other countries in which is custom hold sway."


?


.  
Bob K
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22 posted 08-10-2010 02:06 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     If not, then changed any minds about what, pray tell?

     Income tax?

     If not trying to justify policy in Afghanistan, what is the purpose of your posting?  Perhaps in hope of finding somebody foolish enough to support the sort of barbarism illustrated in that terrible photo?  Whoever might that be?

     Please.

     Of course if there is some other point to such a posting, I am open to being informed and considering such a thing.  Was there another reasonable intention to the proposal of  your posting?  One I might have reasonably missed?
Mysteria
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23 posted 08-10-2010 12:58 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

In answer to your question, "No, this won't change any minds in that country."  This is a sanctioned atrocity that happens every day, and will keep happening, until it becomes against their law.  There are similar things done to women and children all over the world.  Hopefully in years to come with knowledge, they will eventually do better.  It would have to be passed as being against the law to break this chain. Abuse is a disease more often than not, passed down from one generation to the other.  
Denise
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24 posted 08-10-2010 03:48 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

We can expect this type of sanctioned savagery to escalate, from rapes and mutilations to 'honor' killings, since, unfortunately, Sharia law will also now be legal in Kenya, thanks in part to the push for it and dollars from Obama. Way to go. Does this make sense to anybody? Everything should be done to eradicate this barbarism, not promote it.
 
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