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"A Uni-Tea, Bi-Lateral, Tri-Sermon"

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JenniferMaxwell
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0 posted 08-02-2010 09:27 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


“Yesterday, in what was billed as the largest gathering of gaggling geese, Tea Baggers combined farces with the likes of Matt Drudge’s personal rectal thermometer, Andrew Breitbart and held an immense, successful,  huge Uni Tea conference. According to two intrepid TPM reporters, the number of iced water bottles stacked up for conference attendees, greatly outnumbered the actual conference members. If 500 people showed up, the Tea Baggers should be proud.

What happened?

A couple of things. First, try organizing a disorganized set of people whose only similarities include an utter ignorance about government policies, history, grammar and spelling. Just like the roulette wheels in Vegas, if at first you do succeed, trying and trying again may not bring you the same result.

Next, provide secret seed money from some incredibly rich and unbelievably conservative GOP underwriters. (See generally, Koch Bros, Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation,  Wyly Bros, Freedumb Works, Americans for Prosperity,  and more) Then, when you sufficiently scare people with ideas like Death Panels, or Black Muslims from  Kenya taking over America and forcing kids to attend mosques, gather them up with misdirection, lies, deceit, and by underwriting fleets of buses, bring them together. Next step? Declare victory, declare the creation of a new and powerful grass roots movement, and watch the MSM trip over its own feet, trying to get the story.

Those first meetings were something else, weren’t they? Lots of bodies, a sense of “being,” and a wonderment at how it all happened. A real grass roots movement? In the day of remote control HDTV? Amazing.

So far, so good. But then reality begins to set in. Despite the best washing of brains that a wayward, lazy MSM and an evil Koch Foundation can buy, having the likes of Newt the Gingrich, Dick the Armey, C. Boyton Gray, and other NeoCons, and ultraconservatives start talking about the People’s movement as though it was their own, can shock and awe people in unexpected ways.  Sarah Palin, the people’s refudiated twit on twitter, Michele Bachmann, Rand Paul and Sharron Angle added fools to the fire, in their own special way.”
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/31328

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (08-04-2010 10:33 AM).]

Ron
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1 posted 08-02-2010 10:01 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I'm curious, Jennifer. Do you honestly feel this garbage is any better than the garbage often put out by the Tea Bag proponents?
Stephanos
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2 posted 08-02-2010 10:17 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I just have to say, I always love the independence of Ron.  
Bob K
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3 posted 08-02-2010 11:33 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Which material, Ron, is the material you have identified as garbage put out by the tea party folks?

     I feel that some of this material might legitimately be called garbage, by the way.  While I am a Liberal and while I am happy with that, parts of the quotation Jennifer offered were from the same level of discourse that some of the Tea Party material comes from.  Some also came from the literary tradition of word play we all draw upon. "Matt Drudge’s personal rectal thermometer," seemed to me to be garbage, as was calling the gathering — without clear evidence, at least —" a disorganized set of people whose only similarities include an utter ignorance about government policies, history, grammar and spelling."

     Much of it was time wasted because it was name-calling, which raises animosity and doesn't settle much of anything in return.

     Some of it, however, like the comments about the seed money from the Koch Foundation and the Cato People and some of the other groups mentioned was material that was simply true but unsubstantiated in this context.  It should have been substantiated, but it wasn't wrong, and it wasn't garbage.  The nature of the statements made by some of the luminaries mentioned, such as Andrew Breitbart, Rand Paul, Michelle Bachman and Newt Gingrich might well have proven informative and might well have illustrated the points the author was trying to make.  

     I don't know, because they weren't followed up, and the sort of comments these folks have on many occasions made revelatory of their — to my own mind — fundamentally inhuman and inhumane intentions were not drawn out.  I do not share Dr. Gingrich's view on the sterling merits of orphanages, for example.  I also find his comments on the need to pass laws banning sharia law in this country to be divisive and racist and unnecessary.  Nobody has suggested that it be implemented here, any more than that we should implement Anglo-Saxon Law and govern with the Althing, and we still have vestiges of that left over.  

     I wish Jennifer had chosen quotes to deal with these things because they would have been more specific and more difficult to dispose of.  

     However, in the criticism offered her comments, I notice that the central issue taken by  the speaker was not dealt with, and it really should be.  It's actually reasonably short and to the point and not garbage at all, once stripped of the rhetorical razzle dazzle of the speaker wishing to show off how smart he or she is.  It is this:

quote:

According to two intrepid TPM reporters, the number of iced water bottles stacked up for conference attendees, greatly outnumbered the actual conference members. If 500 people showed up, the Tea Baggers should be proud.



     Most of the rest of the piece is simply puffery.

     Stripped of it's puffery, though, the posting is worth looking at because it suggests that the Tea Party Movement was not a grass roots movement, but an Astroturf movement.  It names those who it believes funded the movement and who continue to fund it.  It questions how important the movement will actually be in the election cycle.

     I don't think it did so well.  I don't think it did so with the sort of politeness I'd favor.  I think it requires a little thinking to see beyond the rough exterior.  But yeah, I do think that this garbage is, on the whole, better than the garbage put out by the Tea Party folks; and I've made a good faith effort to show where, why and how.
Ron
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quote:
Some of it, however, like the comments about the seed money from the Koch Foundation and the Cato People and some of the other groups mentioned was material that was simply true but unsubstantiated in this context.

It's not just unsubstantiated, Bob, it's also -- by itself -- irrelevant. Those same people contributed money to the defense of this country. And to the bailouts. And to the stimulus plan. So what?

quote:
(The central issue is) actually reasonably short and to the point and not garbage at all ...

Someone is supplying people with more than ONE bottle of water? Heaven forbid, Bob.

Garbage, pure and simple.


Essorant
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5 posted 08-02-2010 04:40 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Garbage-pickers!
Bob K
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6 posted 08-02-2010 06:40 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



As Stephanos says,

quote:

I always love the independence of Ron.  



     Doesn't mean that I have to agree, of course.

quote:


It's not just unsubstantiated, Bob, it's also -- by itself -- irrelevant. Those same people contributed money to the defense of this country. And to the bailouts. And to the stimulus plan. So what?



     What is that for the items you mention, these sterling folks were taxpayers and had to do so.  I did so myself, and I agreed with more of them than I suspect the Koch foundation does, especially the bailouts and the stimulus, as I believe you're pretty much aware as well.

     When the issue of supplying aid to small businesses came up over the last few days, it was ditched because of the threat of philabuster, and this was done pretty much along party lines.  All the Republicans voted against, and some of the Blue dog Democrats as well, I believe, even though the package was paid for by closing a loophole in the tax code that allowed American companies that picked up their mail overseas to get away without much of the tax bite that regular old American firms must deal with.  Budget neutral, and a stimulus where we need the budget stimulated most right now, in the small to medium business sectors.

     These folks are operating contrary to the interests of the majority of the country, and they have the money to buy Astroturf organizations to help them get away with it.
To me that is substantial and relevant.  It might help turn around the unemployment problem, for example, by supplying stimulus where it is needed.  The fortune 500 seem to be doing all right for themselves in terms of profitability and cash, and I don't see them hiring more folks now.

     Perhaps you do.

     So while you might be right about the substantiality and relevance of my point, I don't think that you've actually shown it in any substantive way.

     I know that myt wife and I have paid taxes, for example, but I have no idea whether the Koch people have, or whether they are in fact some sort of tax write-off for a parent company that enables them to do lobbying at taxpayer expense.  For all I know, your defense contributers may not contribute at all, when their tax attorneys are done with their magic, while I'm reasonably sure that both of us have.

     What percentage of the large companies actually end up paying taxes in the end anyway, at least taxes that aren't written off as expenses for the cost of doing business in one way or another?  Hmmm?  And if they are paying those taxes, shouldn't they be getting better tax attorneys anyway?

     Inquiring minds are curious how you manage to come up with such assertions?  Or an I simply being naive in some fashion I don't understand here?
Ron
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7 posted 08-02-2010 09:25 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Clearly, Bob, I wasn't clear enough. My analogy didn't make the point I wanted.

Forget the taxes. They also, I strongly suspect, contributed money to a church of their choice, if not as a group than probably as individuals. It doesn't mean they control the church, nor does it mean the church necessarily agrees with everything they do as individuals or as a group. And if you suddenly discovered that these same groups had contributed to Obama's campaign coffers in the past? It doesn't mean you would have to turn against the President and everything he tries to do.

Pretty much anyone in American can contribute money to pretty much any cause they want. That doesn't -- by itself -- create a cause and effect relationship. It's just the same kind of inferential implication garbage you've accused the Tea Bag party of doing in the past.


JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 08-03-2010 02:32 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

They had a Uni Tea Party only a couple of hundred or so Tea Partiers showed up.

Here’s a link to the advert promoting a “giant free event” showing the line up of speakers.
http://www.uni-tea.com/

And here’s video of the crowd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtxCW30TzZ4&feature=related


So what happened, why was this particular Tea Party an epic fail?

Denise
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9 posted 08-03-2010 10:39 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Epic fail? Really Jen? I guess you had to be there to know otherwise. It was a great day filled with great speakers and music. Thanks for sharing that clip. It's the only one where I've actually spotted myself in the crowd! The crowd estimate by the organizer was between 800 to 1000 for the 3 hour event. Not bad for one of the most liberal cities in the country for a local event on a summer weekend when folks are flocking to the Jersey Shore.

Here is another great speaker that day Vanessa Jean Louis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E67jVxmWXF8&feature=player_embedded#!


And Thomas Payne. Those familiar with Fox  know him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ8gwKQAgc8&feature=player_embedded

Both of these show a bit more of the crowd too, but not all.
Balladeer
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10 posted 08-04-2010 12:42 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Atta girl, Denise! You made tv!
Bob K
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11 posted 08-04-2010 05:49 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Ron, your points were about defense, the stimulus and the bailouts.  Forgive me if I thought you were talking about taxes there, since I have trouble imagining the Heritage Foundation or the Koch people or any of the organizations in question, for that matter, contributing to these causes in any other wise unless they could profit from the contribution in a concrete and immediate fashion.

     That is the way that most Americans contribute to such causes, through taxes.  I doubt if such programs could be or would be funded without them.

     When you suggest "They also, I strongly suspect, contributed money to a church of their choice, if not as a group than probably as individuals," you imply that these groups and the people that comprise them may pay taxes in addition to these contributions.  That may be a possibility, but with folks with very large incomes, such as the Koch folks and the Scaife people, I have no idea whether their tax attorneys have arranged things so that that have to pay any taxes at all, given the range of potential write-offs and deductions available to folks with such singular incomes.  And the churches that get tithes from such individuals must be blessed indeed.  Ten percent of a hundred million dollars a year is pretty substantial money for a little old church to get, and I strongly suspect that the money might be more likely spent in funding foundations such as, well, The Heritage Foundation itself.  The Koch people and FAIR and many of these Right Wing Organizations actually are charitable organizations which coincidentally happen to further the political, economic and social interests of the Large organizations and powerful people who run them.

     Oddly enough, they seem to tell us that we shouldn't reduce Federal oil Subsidies and that we should give tax breaks to the wealthy and that we should withhold extension of unemployment benefits because the poor and the unemployed are scamming us.  

     In short, the money the government takes in ought to be funneled to the rich and not to the poor, the way their version of religion seems to want things.

     It has a lot in common with the version that the Left advocates in that it suggests that the money is better spent with Our Constituents.  I suspect that the version advocated by the Left is generally healthier for the country as a whole, that is where my own sympathies lie for sure and I think the religious ethics of the country would go that way.

     Definitely a loser position, of course; and I'm all for it.

     If I discovered these same groups had contributed to Obama's coffers in the past, I'd be very surprised.  The Koch Folks, The Scaife Folks, the various Right Wing organizations are pretty much Right Wing Organizations and don't throw a lot of cash toward Obama unless it's to try to cause problems for the Obama folks.

     More business-oriented organizations, such as the NAM might split their donations, as might some of the Oil Companies, the Coal Companies, the Car Companies and so on so as to cover their bets.  They're businessmen.  But the Right Wing Power broker guys, who might be businessmen as well, they're more interested in conservative and even further Right Wing politics, and they aren't particularly concerned with keeping their bets covered.  The CATO Institute knows where its bread is buttered, and the Democrats are not up for the high saturated fat diet the comes with the use of that much butter.

     If you believe that I am against everything and everyone Republican, I think you've been misreading me.  It's simply that I don't think that there are very many Republicans left, at least Republicans of the sort that I grew up with.

quote:

It's just the same kind of inferential implication garbage you've accused the Tea Bag party of doing in the past.



     You are going to need to be specific about what sort of inferential implication garbage you think I've accused the Tea Party of doing in the past.

     Exactly what have I said that is "just the same kind" of inferential implication garbage that the Tea Party is Using?

     When you can give be some specifics about that, then I may be able to respond to you more directly on a case by case basis.  If I have been doing that, I'll try to own up.  If I haven't, or think I haven't, then I'll have a better idea of where the discussion is going, at least.  Best from here, Bob Kaven.  
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12 posted 08-04-2010 09:13 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
You are going to need to be specific about what sort of inferential implication garbage you think I've accused the Tea Party of doing in the past.

Who made up that rule, Bob? And more importantly, who has the authority to enforce it? [Edited - Ron] Forgive me, please, if I have better ways to spend my time.

I haven't asked you to "own up," Bob. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, except perhaps the inane lunacy of Jennifer's propaganda. As difficult as it might be to believe, my posts weren't about you.
JenniferMaxwell
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13 posted 08-04-2010 10:07 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"A “Uni-Tea,” Bi-Lateral, Tri-Sermon"

What happened to the thread title? Not the way I posted it.
JenniferMaxwell
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14 posted 08-04-2010 10:35 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Never mind, I fixed it myself. Please don't mess it up again, it's a direct quote. Thanks!
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15 posted 08-04-2010 11:01 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ummmm...who would have messed up your title, Jen? More than likely it was just some sort of computer glitch.
Ron
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16 posted 08-04-2010 11:23 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Actually, Jennifer, it IS the way you posted it.

When you copy and paste, especially from a Microsoft product (like Word), you often get some "special" characters instead of the standard ASCII ones. In this instance, you had what MS calls smart-quotes around the phrase Uni-Tea, i.e., the first quote faces to the right and the second closing quote faces to the left. What is seen on the screen after posting those special characters is going to depend on the PC; not every browser supports them, not every computer has the char set loaded, even the cache can change the way they're displayed.

In this instance, the change was initiated by an edit to the thread; our software doesn't understand those special chars and will typically replace them with their ASCII equivalents. That's not really a bad thing, in my opinion, because it forces those who use copy and paste in this manner to see what a lot of other people, those who don't have Office installed, see all the time.

Make sense now?


JenniferMaxwell
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17 posted 08-04-2010 11:30 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Thanks for the info. Now I can cross paranoia off my personal defects list.

So when an item in the thread was edited, the thread title went kaplowy?
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     Ron, when you begin a post by addressing me by using my name and give no notification that the person being addressed has changed when you reach the end, you are in fact addressing me, whether or not your intention was to do so.  English requires markers of one sort or another for this sort of thing to keep clarity.  My reading of the text as your address as being to me rather than to the public is an appropriate one.

     It is not difficult to believe your comments were not about me..  I'm not that important, nor am I that interesting, except to myself. I would hope.  You simply didn't indicate, after addressing me, that you'd decided to address Jennifer — if your "you" was second person singular — or a group of other readers including us all — second person Plural.

     You quoted me:
quote:

You are going to need to be specific about what sort of inferential implication garbage you think I've accused the Tea Party of doing in the past.



     Then you asked:
quote:

Who made up that rule, Bob? And more importantly, who has the authority to enforce it? [Edited - Ron] Forgive me, please, if I have better ways to spend my time.



     It appears I was communicating poorly here.

     My assumption was that the unspoken part of my sentence was clear, and it obviously was not.  Laid out more fully it would have read "You are going to need to be specific about what sort of inferential implication garbage you think I've accused the Tea Party of doing in the past if you want me to offer you a proper response.  Perhaps you think I am under the illusion that my power here lies in some sort of administrative context.

     Furthermore, should I have excised evidence of your exercise of that power when it came up as part of a quotation that I was using?  You don't seem touchy about asserting a reminder of that now to suggest I shouldn't have allowed  mention of its earlier exercise by including the marks of its presence.

     You may well have been right in editing out the passage.  I trust that you were.  I tend to trust editors as making useful choices for the publication, which is what I believe you are doing as best you can.  That doesn't mean that I don't get petulant about them from time to time.

quote:
    
      
I haven't asked you to "own up," Bob. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, except perhaps the inane lunacy of Jennifer's propaganda.



     But I made a point of saying exactly where I thought that quote was off-base.  If my observations weren't in many cases close to yours, I'd be surprised.  I am not refusing to face up to the "except perhaps" of those elements.  I made a point of agreeing with criticisms about those elements I thought were outrageous.

     Didn't  I?

     Your conversation with me is about the rest of it, where I disagreed with you in your evaluation, and it is on those points I wanted clarification, so I could consider more closely what you had to say.

     And it is on those points, as I understand the conversation, that you have decided that you have better things to do than to reply.  Perhaps at some point in the future you might have run through some of those things and decide to pick up the discussion.
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quote:
So when an item in the thread was edited, the thread title went kaplowy?

Yep. Of course, for those individuals without the necessary fonts already installed on their computers, the title was kaplowy even before it was edited.

quote:
Ron, when you begin a post by addressing me by using my name and give no notification that the person being addressed has changed when you reach the end, you are in fact addressing me, whether or not your intention was to do so.

I was, indeed, talking to you, Bob. I was not, however, talking about you.

quote:
You don't seem touchy about asserting a reminder of that now to suggest I shouldn't have allowed  mention of its earlier exercise by including the marks of its presence.

I'm not entirely sure what you just said, Bob, but I think perhaps you are mistaking my [Edited - Ron] tag as a reminder of something? If so, that's not the case at all. I posted a couple of sentences there as a Member, then about 15 minutes later came back and removed them as a Moderator. I left the tag so that anyone who read my post in that 15 minute time span wouldn't be confused when the sentences disappeared. And, no, the sentences weren't nasty. But neither were they about the thread. So . . . I edited me.

quote:
Your conversation with me is about the rest of it, where I disagreed with you in your evaluation, and it is on those points I wanted clarification, so I could consider more closely what you had to say.

And it is on those points, as I understand the conversation, that you have decided that you have better things to do than to reply.

No, those points were asked and answered, Bob. Your request, albeit phrased as a demand, was for a citation of you accusing the Tea Party of inferential implication garbage. While that's my characterization of several recent disagreements about the Tea Party, I honestly don't have the time to justify it. Nor do I think I need to for most readers.


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20 posted 08-04-2010 06:45 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
Atta girl, Denise! You made tv!


Hahahahahaha!!!

♫ ♫ I'm a star, ♫ ♫ I'm a star! ♫ ♫  
Bob K
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21 posted 08-04-2010 06:50 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Ron, if they were answers to the questions I posed, they certainly didn't get through.  Perhaps I should know that I'd been answered somehow.

     I don't get the business about to me and about me.

     That's a weak point in the structure of the language, and people who use it need to be careful to mark those transitions to avoid this sort of confusion.   Ecverybody makes those mistakes when they don't have time for multiple drafts and even sometimes when they do.  We just tend to think other people understand the transitions that seem natural to us and forget to say things like, "Changing the subject..."  or "on another tack."  Or we forget to address the specific people last, to distinguish them from the more general audience we address first.

     I'm sorry that you experienced my request as a demand.  That's an example of careless writing on my part, and your irritation seems warranted.  I certainly might be in your shoes.  It was poorly done on my part.
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22 posted 08-04-2010 11:10 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

This was one of the performers at Uni-Tea,
Ava Aston:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jut7s68pnpg&feature=player_embedded

The video of her live performance at Uni-Tea won't be available until later this week due to sound problems during the recording. I'll post it when I get it.
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23 posted 08-06-2010 08:57 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Memo to the media: The Tea Party movement has collapsed

“Like rubberneckers on the misinformation highway, let’s slow down and gawk at the wreckage from last Saturday’s Tea Party rally in Philadelphia.
The Saturday event was dubbed Uni-Tea, and was designed to feature mostly minority speakers as a way to send a message that not only isn’t the Tea Party movement racist, but that it seeks diversity amid its ranks.

Optimistic organizers, who boasted that their website had attracted 2 million hits during the run-up to the big rally, predicted a crowd of 3,000-4,000 people for the Philadelphia event. And they had every reason to be confident. After all, right-wing celebrity Andrew Breitbart, fresh off his Shirley Sherrod star turn, was scheduled to speak at the event, which was held on a gorgeous summer day in downtown Philadelphia on Independence Mall, where throngs of tourists would already be milling around.
But how many people actually showed up last Saturday for the national Tea Party rally? One local report put the number at 300. That’s right, 300, or less than one-tenth of the expected turnout. In fact, it’s possible more people showed up in Philadelphia last week to commemorate the opening of the new Apple computer store than showed up at the nationally promoted Tea Party rally featuring Andrew Breitbart.

I don’t know why Tea Party events, like the one in Philadelphia, are now failures. Maybe people are turned off by the obvious and odious racial element that permeates parts of the movement. Or maybe people are disappointed at how little the Tea Party has been able to accomplish. Of course, it failed in stopping Obama's health care reform, a legislative initiative that Tea Party leaders and supporters rallied against.

The Tea Party also failed in stopping Obama's stimulus package, as well as the White House's push to bail out Detroit automakers and to reform financial institutions. So maybe that’s why people now stay home instead of creating Obama-hating posters and marching around.”
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201008050003


Tea party attendance dwindling because "co-sponsor" Fox has "stepped back"?
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201008050043
Denise
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24 posted 08-06-2010 11:26 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I was there, Jen. It was a great event. The organizer estimated the attendance at between 800 to 1000 people. If only a few African Americans who happened to be passing by stopped and listened to some of the fantastic speeches by the African American presenters, and if perhaps some seeds were planted that may eventually germinate and free them from the nanny-state mentality that so many are locked into, then it was a great success! One mind at a time.

It was the second largest gathering that I have been to in Philadelphia to date. The largest was July 4th 2009 with an estimated 2500.

TPM, Mediamatters and any other liberal rag you can quote are simply trying to dismiss and diminish the impact that the various Tea Parties ARE having across this country. They also said that the 9/12 DC rally had only about 3000 people. The low end estimate was 800,000 and the 'people meter counter' clocked in at 1 1/2 million. The rags can say whatever they want. We are there at these events, and we know the truth.
 
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