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The View on Race - or Vice-Versa?

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Balladeer
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0 posted 07-30-2010 08:56 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Obama urges a dialogue on race after Sherrod case
,
Despite great progress on race relations, "we were reminded this past week that we still got work to do when it comes to promoting the values of fairness and equality and mutual understanding that must bind us together as a nation," Obama told the Urban League, a 100-year-old civil rights group, which was meeting in Washington.

Obama said there's no need to have "a bunch of academic symposia or fancy commissions or panels" on race. Instead, "we should all make more of an effort to discuss with one another, in a truthful and mature and responsible way, the divides that still exist, the discrimination that's still out there, the prejudices that still hold us back."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-07-30-obama30_ST_N.htm?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomWashington-TopStories+%28News+- +Washington+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

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Left Admits: Racism Charges Against Tea Parties a Tactic, Not a Truth
.
Washington, D.C. – Members of the Project 21 black leadership group are condemning the left's false use of the accusation "racist" as a political tactic, saying they recognize the strategy from the teaching of left-wing organizer Saul Alinsky.

Former U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Chairman Mary Frances Berry, a long-time prominent liberal activist, has admitted in an interview with Politico that the left is trying to smear the tea party movement as "racist" for strategic reasons, not out of genuine concern that the movement is itself racist. Berry called the tactic an "effective strategy" and chose not to denounce it.

"As an active participant in the tea party movement, I know the movement's motivation is about Obama's policies and not his race," said Deneen Borelli, a Project 21 full-time fellow who has spoken at many tea party rallies and is scheduled to speak at the "Uni-Tea" rally in Philadelphia on July 31. "Race card politics is the last-ditch effort to shift the debate away from President Obama's harmful policies such as the government's takeover of health care and his failure to create jobs -- both of which are having an impact on his popularity. This diversion may also help Obama to try to jam through cap-and-trade legislation through Congress. It's a grand distraction from policies and may unfortunately increase racial tensions."

Berry, now the Geraldine R. Segal Professor of American Social Thought and History at the University of Pennsylvania, was asked, "will branding the tea party 'racist' work?"

Berry replied:

    Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness.

"This is exactly the kind of thing that has irked me all of my adult life, to put it mildly," said Project 21 member R. Dozier Gray. "This willful and purposeful use of the race card for nothing more than political gain is toxic to race relations, and Mary Frances Berry must know that. But she evidently does not care. Based on her comment, political posturing takes primacy over whatever real issues regarding race that she might pretend are her calling cards. I have seen this all before. I find it shameful."

Project 21 member Bob Parks added: "What's most disturbing about this very public quote? Not only is Mary Frances Berry making this comment without fear of admonishment, and that progressives have apparently embraced and are employing these very shameful, race-baiting tactics -- but Berry is likely teaching this 'social thought' hate to children."

Left-wing organizer Saul Alinsky, whose tactics have been studied and followed by Barack Obama and his followers, taught his activists to "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." The Tea Party movement has unnerved the left and energized supporters of smaller government, causing the left to target it, as per Alinsky's method, with bogus racism charges.


The Politico interview with Berry is available at http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/mary_frances_berry.html.
.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21PR-Tea_Party_Racism_072910.html


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Perhaps Obama should have given that speech to Mary Francis Berry instead of the ladies of the View??
Denise
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1 posted 07-30-2010 09:12 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I plan to be there tomorrow to hear these fine speakers!
http://www.uni-tea.com/

Love the new pic, Michael!
Ron
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2 posted 07-30-2010 09:51 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

This borders on silly, Mike. The only thing "members of the Project 21 black leadership group" can condemn with any authority are the activities of Project 21. The cannot, as the headline implies, speak for The Left.

They recognize the strategy from the teachings of some left-wing organizer? So, if someone called the KKK racist it would necessarily be because of those teachings?

The points expressed may very well be true. Or not. There is absolutely nothing in your post, however, providing evidence for either view.


Mysteria
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3 posted 07-30-2010 12:54 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Balderdash.  Another political move, with no truthful foundation I think Michael.

This is the very thing Obama was referring to when he spoke on "The View", about people who get the gossip and run with it before getting the facts.  He included his own staff of this.  Such is the life of the media, and unfortunately, all races.

Whatever side you place your loyalty on, there will always be some media propaganda to bash the other side. Political verbal warfare I call it.  

In the end, I still will put my dollar on the American public to do the right thing (for them.)
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4 posted 07-30-2010 01:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Silly and balderdash...I couldn't agree more.

Isn't it funny, though, that when leftists accuse conservatives of racism or paint the tea partiers as racists radicals, no one calls it silly balderdash? Or when Obama discusses racism, it's normally aimed at the right? I wonder why that is..

Did either of you follow the link to this woman's credentials? Not talking about a right wing kook here....just the opposite. She outlines the dem policy of going after the tea partiers by using racial accusations, knowing they are false, and it's just silly balderdash.

Fine with me....next time one of our more zealous lefties come out with their ridiculous accusations, branding the tea partiers as racist dolts, I know now that I can count on you two to repeat you descriptions of the nonsense. Thank you both  
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5 posted 07-30-2010 01:27 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

The Politico interview with Berry is available at http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/mary_frances_berry.html.
.

That is a dead link, and I am hunting the internet to find the interview, any more sources Michael please?
Ron
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6 posted 07-30-2010 03:06 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Did either of you follow the link to this woman's credentials?

No, Mike, I didn't, because that's not the point.

Her credentials may be impressive, even impeccable, and that may lend a lot of credence to her accusations. She still isn't "The Left," nor can she speak for them. Your headline reads, "Left Admits ..." and is the kind of silliness I expect to see in the National Enquirer. It doesn't even pretend to be accurate. Just sensational.


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7 posted 07-30-2010 03:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ron, I believe the headline is referring to Mary Frances Berry, who could be described as a member of the Left. Project 21 is not speaking for the Left. They are merely pointing to a statement made by her, a member of the Left, that making baseless charges of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for the Democrats.
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8 posted 07-30-2010 03:55 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here's another article about it:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2010/07/30/left-wing-black-activist-acknowledges-race-attacks-tea-party-are-bog
Mysteria
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9 posted 07-30-2010 04:14 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

There are tons of sites carrying this story now, and they are the ones I would expect to.

I couldn't find one reference to it on CNN, which I rely on for more accurate information but that is neither here or there.

quote:
Did either of you follow the link to this woman's credentials?


I did not have to research her, she is one of 75 women in a book I keep on my coffee table, and I respect, and honor each one of them in that book.

She is just one person, with one opinion, and not speaking for an entire sector or on behalf of an entire sector, which is what that article you referred to seems to intend, that is all I was trying to say.  A tiny bit of straw, and one match can start huge fires in the political arena I guess.  I just wish in my "rose-colored glasses" world everyone would play nice, and honestly.  

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10 posted 07-30-2010 08:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Former U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Chairman Mary Frances Berry, a long-time prominent liberal activist, has admitted in an interview with Politico that the left is trying to smear the tea party movement as "racist" for strategic reasons, not out of genuine concern that the movement is itself racist. Berry called the tactic an "effective strategy" and chose not to denounce it.

That's not an opinion, Mysteria. It's a statement of fact, according to her. Feel free to ignore the implication. No problem
Ron
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11 posted 07-30-2010 09:38 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Mike, it's neither opinion nor fact. It's just propaganda. It became that when someone decided to put "admitted" in there as a verb.

Berry might well have made some telling points. One might argue that her contention doesn't appear to take into account tea party activists like Mark Williams, but at least Berry's arguments would have been heard. Someone wasn't content with that, though, and it's a shame.

Instead of presenting Berry's opinions as the opinions of someone with a great deal of credibility, someone decided to twist them into something they definitely are not. Instead of arguments demanding recognition, her words became someone's propaganda. I can't even trust that Berry's words were honestly reported? Not when the writer clearly intended to twist them.

Berry can't "admit" to anything except what she herself has done. To pretend her allegations are admissions is simply yellow journalism at its worst.


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12 posted 07-30-2010 09:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not when the writer clearly intended to twist them.

...and you base that on what?
Bob K
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13 posted 07-31-2010 03:05 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     How about the use of the Verb "admitted," Mike?  Asked and answered already.

     Where is the full article and where is Ms. Berry's full statement?  I really would like to see for myself if there has been anything that might be accurately described as an "admission" made, which to my mind at least suggests an interrogation or cross examination.  Perhaps it means something else to you.

     As for racism, my experience over time has been that the right wing has been considerably more biased about issues of race and religion than the left wing.  If my eyes and ears don't mislead me, even as we speak, the right wing is drumming up anti-muslim feeling, conflating "muslim" and "terrorist" and trying to drum up phony anti-muslim fervor by bringing up an issue that nobody but the right has even suggested has any reality.  Speakers for our Right wing tell us the the U.S. needs to pass laws against the establishment of Shari'a law in the United States.

     Racist.  

     Thank you, Newt Gingrich.

     For some interesting video on the subject, you can check out the Rachel Maddow web-site for today or yesterday which showed a gallery of Republicans coming out in favor of such legislation.  How they managed to maintain straight faces while delivering such fairy tales is beyond me.  I was never that good a liar.

     No one that I know of has ever suggested that shari'a law be used here, but so what?  Not even Osama Bin Laden.  This bit of religious and race bating is apparently good right wing politics. As have been the Republican attempts to disqualify black voters from the voter
rolls in Florida, Michigan and Ohio, among other States, in some cases successfully enough to affect the course of elections.

     I would call that Racism as well.  The Republicans aren't trying to disqualify white voters, suburban voters or elderly voters.  They aren't trying to disqualify wealthy voters.  They aren't trying to disqualify any voter that seems dubious.  They are fairly selective and target voters likely to be Black.  We went over the evidence for this before, Mike; remember?

     Careful where you point your finger.

     We have discussed those states before, and your responses as to where there have been judgements against the Republican Party for their actions in those cases.  To me your responses haven't proven to be very convincing.  The only clear explanation that I have been able to see for the Republican actions; and that, apparently, the Federal government and the courts have been able to see for them is pretty clear:  That would be a pervasive pattern of racism not simply within the local party apparatus, but within the national party structure as well.

     Democrats can be racists, too, and they have been, from time to time.  

     I'm no happier about that than you are.  But it's not institutional and it's not pervasive and it's not a political tactic with the Democrats of today the way it was with parts of the Democratic party in the twenties and thirties and even into the mid-fifties.  And it does seem to be in active flower with the Republicans, pretty much as we speak.  Thank you very much Mr. Gingrich, thank you Mr. Limbaugh, thank you Mr. Breitbart.

     And, no, thank you very much, these are gifts that I don't wish to accept from anybody.

     I am aware of my failings, and I can tell the difference between my failings and the failings of the folks on the far Right.  I know the difference between my racism and their racism, and I refuse to confuse them.  I may be a guilty Liberal, but I am not a stupid guilty Liberal, thank you very much, and I do not fall over at the thought of having somebody notice my own racism.  I know where it is, what is is and exactly what it encompasses. I won't be told that it goes places that it doesn't go, because I know it's real and I know it's there and I know where it does go.

     It's time for my Right Wing Pals to deal with their own.  Stop trying to put the evidence everywhere but where it belongs.  If guilt is too uncomfortable, skip it and get straight to the taking responsibility part.

     The denial business is already far too shopworn for anybody but you to find it convincing in the actual light of day.
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14 posted 07-31-2010 07:41 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here is a Politico link that works:
http://www.politico.com/arena/bio/mary_frances_berry.html

While she can only speak for herself, that's true, she seems pretty confident in her claim that the Dems are playing the race card for political advantage.

Welcome back from your vacation Bob. I hope you had a good time. I imagine that it is refreshing to get away for a couple of weeks.

Although this is off-topic, and maybe you would like to start a new thread for it, but I'm wondering why you consider it racist to fight against the establishment of Sharia Law in the U.S. The U.S. has its own law that covers all its citizens/residents. And whatever happened to separation of church and state? Does that just apply to Christianity? Why would anyone even consider the establishement of another sytem of law that would have equal footing with, or supremacy over, our own law, especially one that subjugates women?

Can you supply evidence of racism by Gingrich, Limbaugh and Breitbart?


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15 posted 07-31-2010 08:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Speakers for our Right wing tell us the the U.S. needs to pass laws against the establishment of Shari'a law in the United States.

Racist.


Wow....that's one incredible statement, Bob. Are you sure you want to go there at all????
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16 posted 07-31-2010 07:39 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Thanks for welcoming me back, Denise.  Yes, I had a very good time visiting friends and family in Boston, Buffalo and Ithaca.  A beloved Uncle is a former John Birch Society Guy, but I missed the chance of talking to him this time.  It's a pity, because I scherish our conversations and because he is a great humanitarian and a warm hearted fella when it comes down to specifics, much as I hear President Reagan was as well.  Hal put in a lot of time doing very low paying work with the retarded and with psychiatric folks when he could have made a lot of money doing other stuff at full price in his private prasctice.

     I hope I'm somewhere near as decent a guy.

     I also had another run in with the INS in Rochester while traveling down to Ithaca in Trailways this year, but the INS agent this time with a remarkablke man with a great deal of thoughtfulness to him, and we were able to have a good conversation about the poilicy.

     I must say thanks in part to some of the conversations I've had here with folks on the Right, but also thanks to the extraordinary openness of this particular guy, who had little in common with the folks I saw during my last go-around with the INS.  This was a remarkably thoughtful guy, as I said.  Good to see them no matter where they're found.

     1)  Thanks for the link.  I'll need some time to look at that, and I'd rather not react in advance of information.

     2)

quote:

...  I'm wondering why you consider it racist to fight against the establishment of Sharia Law in the U.S.

  

     Thank you for asking, Denise.

     Because nobody is trying to establish Sharia Law in the United States, just as nobody is trying to enshrine Ancient Mosaic Law in The United States.  

     Treating either as the Law of The Land would not work here.  Both are too Draconian for our culture in many respects, and I would be against both.  I feel that being told who would be appropriate slaves, for example, would be wrong, since in my country there are no appropriate slaves, and that, Denise, is in Mosaic Law.  Specifying the punishment for mixing linen and wool would be inappropriate because in my country there should be no such punishment.  Both Sharia and Mosaic Law specify stoning for some crimes, and I would fight against that in any case.

     But that isn't the issue, because nobody has asked that either be used as law of the land.

     To bring up either would only provoke racial ond religious strife, since neither would be permitted as the Law of The Land in My country.  Or in your, for that matter.  Our country has the firstr Ammendment which prohibits favor being given to one or another religious group, and since Sharia Law favors Muslims, it is illegal by constitution in our country, as the people who have moved to ban it already know.

     They depend on you not to know and to get upset at those Muslims about it, or potentially — in the case of Mosaic Law — to get upset at those Jews about it.

     You know very well that to get upset about something this stupid in relation to the Jews would be racist, and we'd call it anti-semitic, and for good reason.  It'd be a round-about way of stuirring up anti-Jewish feeling.  

     Same with the Muslims, Denise.  It's simply a way of stirring up anti-Muslim feeling by bringing up an issue that you'd be hard-pressed to find an American Muslim to support.

     Even President Bush, our last President Bush, was careful to draw a clear line between Muslims and the terrorists.  He was very clear about telling the American People that Islam was a religion of Peace, and the Al Qaeda folks were a bunch of very far out fringe folks who had and have today little if anything to do with mainstream Islam.  It's one of the Things that I agree with President Bush on.

     The folks who are bringing this Sharia Law issue up now, if they've any memory, know what they're doing, and it isn't pretty.  It's racist.  It's attempting to focus hatred on Muslims over a phony issue.

     Support it if you will, but support it with a full understanding of what you're being asked to stand behind and with a clear understanding of what you're doing.  It's racial and religious hatred, Denise.

3)
quote:


Can you supply evidence of racism by Gingrich, Limbaugh and Breitbart?



     The behavior of Breitbart through this latest brouhaha is enough for me, especially, for his putting forward of the edited and doctored excerpt of that speech and for his loathsome reactions at being found out and confronted.  The editing and distortion process seems to be a tactic that Republicans have grown fond of in recent years.  

     Mr. Gingrich for his attempts to stirr up racial and religious conflict in his comments about Sharia Law.  The man has a Ph.D. and acts as though he doesn't know about the first Ammendment.

     And Mr, Limbaugh for his comments about the President getting the Job of President because he's black.

     Does this mean that he thinks that the other Presidents wouldn't have been able to get the job if they weren't White?  That would be a comment equally as racist, and both comments are designed to stir up racial antagonisms.  His comments about the President not being able to get a job except as a black tour guide seemed racist to me as well, considering he was President of the Harvard Law Review.

     Do you have any idea what sort of job offers people who edit the Harvard Law Review get when they leave school?  If you don't, then you might consider that it's the top honor of the top law school in the country.  Nobody hands it to anybody simply because they're anything but smart and competent.

     Limbaugh?  Racist.

4)     Mike, nice picture, you're looking great, nice to see you again.

     About Sharia Law, I don't like it.  See above.  

     About the Republican use of the Issue — Racist.
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17 posted 07-31-2010 07:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOL! Only you, Bob, could take the reaction to a liberal's admission of employing racial tactics and call the reaction racial.

You have been missed
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     Really nice to see you again, too, Mike.

     And, Gosh, I notice you're responding to me, wonderful me, rather than the points I raised, which you haven't seemed to have find a way of addressing.

     This is often the place where you tell me that the points I raise are ridiculous, by the way, and I have to go through the routine of saying that you still haven't addressed them.  Why might that be, because if they are so ridiculous they should be simple to dispose of, undsoweiter.

     I thought I'd save both of us time and energy by collapsing the process into a summary, so we could get past calling be cute and not worth paying attention to, and so you might actually try addressing some of the points I raised.

     Unless you actually want to go through the business formally.  It reminds me of Diplomacy.  

     You do look well in this current picture, and I hope you feel as well as you look.  Best wishes from the Left Coast.
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19 posted 08-01-2010 03:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course you are right, Bob. Calling your points ridiculous serves no purpose. It is more appropriate to simply not respond to the ones I consider to be so. So, if you find a point I do not respond to, you will know why.

It's like a message I used to have on my answering machine. "You are getting this message because there is someone I don't wish to talk to. Leave your message and, if I don't return the call, it's you."
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20 posted 08-01-2010 06:23 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

There are racists and there are also those who attempt to play the race card for political gain and there are those who try to expose them. I would put Breitbart in the latter category. Here is his speech from yesterday:
http://www.blip.tv/file/3951537


Here are the two clips that he released of Sherrod. You will notice that in the first clip, her 'redeeming' moment, her 'epiphany', if that is what you want to call it, is included at the end of the first clip. He didn't edit or doctor the tape. He aired what was given to him. He was trying to show, not her admission of racism years ago, which was somewhat mitigated by her 'epiphany', that "it's not about black and white, well it is about black and white, but it's more about the poor, the have-nots against those who have", but the NAACP audience members reaction of approval to her admission prior to her 'epiphany'.
http://biggovernment.com/abreitbart/2010/07/19/video-proof-the-naacp-awards-racism2010/#more-145962

Here is the entire tape that was finally released by the NAACP, which they had all along, which they could have looked at prior to their condemnation of her, which Vilsak could have looked at prior to his sacking her, which the White House could have looked at prior to demanding her resignation.

She seems like a nice enough woman. Very engaging and very warm. She still does make racist comments, though, as well as classist comments, in this complete tape.

The moral of the story to the NAACP is clean out your own house first of the racists before you go looking for them somewhere else.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/full-video-of-shirley-sherrods-speech-at-naacp-event/

As for Gingrich and his statements on Sharia, just because we have a Constitution and a First Admendment, that doesn't mean that there won't be those who try to violate them and circumvent them. Islam has gotten Sharia elevated to legal status in other countries, like they are trying to do now in Kenya. It's not impossible that they would try it here. Issuing a warning to be on guard against that happening here is not fanning the flames of religous and racial hatred.  It's wise.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2562371/posts

I don't think Limbaugh is a racist for saying that Obama was elected because of his race. I agree with him that it at least gave him an edge, an edge that Obama played up masterfully during the campaign, of the young, hip, cool, good looking, good dancing, citizen of the world, black guy with the exotic background. Too many people fell for the suave, superficial Madison Avenue hype. He certainly wasn't elected because of his executive experience.
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21 posted 08-01-2010 09:55 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Beg pardon, Denise, but Why after being a nation for so long does being black give one the edge in being elected president for the first time in 2008, and previously give one the edge in being sold or hanged or whipped or discounted or called stupid?  You might recall that this is not the first time a black has run for the office.  Why weren't platoons of Blacks and other minorities elected if being Black or minority gives candidates such an edge?

     I don't believe it does; not even remotely.

     By your reasoning, it would seem that being White gives the edge, and the first time a Black is elected, the victory must be imputed to some sort of unfair advantage rather than to the fact that the man ran a better campaign than his opponents, seemed to work harder, and seemed to make more sense to more people.  I understand that he didn't convince you, Denise, but I suspect that most Democrats would have a difficult time convincing you, though I may certainly be wrong there.

     I remain unconvinced that whites have sustained racial damages at the hands of blacks in any other than an anecdotal way or from slave uprisings and such since the settling of this continent, whereas the same cannot be said the other way around without ripping the very fabric of reality.  Of course if you have any substantive and scholarly data that suggests otherwise, I'd be glad to give it a look.  But please, nothing by any neo-nazi hate groups or eugenics organizations or folks of that sort; a little background research on the folks you're using, first, please.

     Right wing or neutral is fine as long as they have their facts straight.  FAIR, and Neo-nazis, and such-like, please, no, unless you can tell me why these facts are more reliable than other facts these folks have offered in the past.
Bob K
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22 posted 08-01-2010 10:17 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

quote:

As for Gingrich and his statements on Sharia, just because we have a Constitution and a First Amendment, that doesn't mean that there won't be those who try to violate them and circumvent them. Islam has gotten Sharia elevated to legal status in other countries, like they are trying to do now in Kenya. It's not impossible that they would try it here. Issuing a warning to be on guard against that happening here is not fanning the flames of religious and racial hatred.  It's wise.



     That's an interesting logic.  Let's try another example of the same sort of logic and see how sensible it seems, shall we?

     Simply because Christians haven't tried to Burn heretics in this country yet, doesn't mean they don't intend to.  They've done it in other places.  In Kenya, they're trying to kill homosexuals.  We should make sure that we outlaw Christianity and all vestiges of Christian influence on our legal practice here.  Only in this way can we be sure that we won't have inquisitors burning people who disagree with their rigid and unhealthy practices in our streets.

     Support the new legislation to ban christianity in our dear country.

     That's roughly the same train of reasoning, isn't it?

     Down with the Judeo-Christian threat!


     Except nobody's suggesting that we burn heretics in the streets.  In my more provocative moments, I'd perhaps suggest that the Far Right might be trying to, but, for the most part, even most main stream Republicans don't think of such things.  

     Nero-cons like Mr. Gingrich, Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Breitbart, however, do, on occasion, leap to defend what no man attacks, in the hopes that they might sew discord and racial and religious disharmony where there need be none.  As I have suggested in my previous post.  Wisdom such as this is in the interest of their partisan political policies and not in the health of their country.  The reasoning is specious, and they do not appeal to our more generous natures.  Nor do they ask us to use our more critical faculties in estimating the threat they seek to conjure from swamp gas and sulfurous imaginings.

     I find them more of a danger to our way of life and the freedoms it offers than the fictions it seeks to warn us against.  Racists, the bunch of them.
rachaelfuchsberger
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23 posted 08-03-2010 01:39 AM       View Profile for rachaelfuchsberger   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rachaelfuchsberger

I don't usually get involved in conversations about politics or racism, but I'm making an exception this time.

Perhaps the fact that this is coming from someone who isn't heavily involved or invested in politics will bring a fresh perspective. Even if a little naive. First of all, no I haven't read any of the links at all. I don't care for boring speeches and childish finger pointing. Hence my lack of interest in politics in general. Secondly, I would like to point out, in case anyone forgot, that most of the states where racism is still an issue have been voting Republican for the better part of the last century. This leads me, a non-political person, to believe that most of the racism in the country stems from the Right winged, conservative morals that are shoved in the face of the entire country on a daily, if not hourly basis. Thirdly,why are 90% of the posts in this particular forum about the oppression of racism or right wings oppressing left wings or vice-versa? Has anyone stopped to consider the other forms of oppression still rampant in this country? I.E. the constant discrimination against the LGBT community. Those of us who are gay and in love are constantly told by a country that's not SUPPOSED to be run by religion that our love is an abomination against God. That we don't deserve to have the same rights as a married heterosexual couple. That we would be inherently bad parents. And while it's ok for us to LIVE in the US, we're not allowed to FIGHT and DIE for our country that we love just as much as the heterosexuals, because we're viewed as automatically having lower morals and standards of behavior. Does anyone bother to discuss THAT oppression? Not that I've seen of late.

Just two cents from a politically disinclined individual.


-Arana Darkwolf
Like a cat, I'll land on my feet. I always do.
JenniferMaxwell
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24 posted 08-03-2010 05:57 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Married same-sex couples are blatantly discriminated against under federal tax law, among other areas...” - Paul Sousa, co-chair of Join The Impact MA.

“Despite living in committed relationships, same-sex couples--even those married in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and California--must file as individuals, forgoing over 1,100 federal rights granted to heterosexual married couples.”

“Among the most egregious policies is the federal government's denial of social security benefits and inheritance rights to same-sex couples. LGBT individuals are blocked access to their partner's social security benefits, often making retirement financially difficult, if not impossible. They are also denied access to the lump sum given to survivors which can make it hard to cover hospital and funeral expenses for their loved one”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/10/lgtb-tea-party-planned_n_185780.html

 
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