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Passions in Poetry

Enough said...and not by an American...

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Denise
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25 posted 07-10-2010 05:18 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:

This is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2054258/posts
Mysteria
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26 posted 07-10-2010 06:18 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Interviews With Peter Hammond

I knew saving this link would come in handy one day.  I especially like the Nelson Mandela interviews.  You can see what a "devout Christian" this man is, and just as he stands up for his beliefs, and his "God," so do others with a strong belief in their faiths, non-faith, or their "way of life."  I have been following this man for some time due to his thoughts on anti-abortion.  

It is all just so simple really.  What we have to do is simply starting finding our similarities, instead of through ignorance, or fear, finding our differences. We are just so lucky to have freedom come to us in so many forms, and still each day we abuse it.

Religion will always be a good excuse for dissension between men and nations to create wars, and divide us.  Until greed of money and power are lessened instead of being shared, and our indifference and fear takes second place to understanding,or sharing and loving our fellow man replaces turning our backs on each other, places like this "Alley," and all the other allies out there on the internet feeding and fueling this propaganda to the innocent out there will continue to flourish.  The more you read, the more you realize it is all just words, just words.  One day we are simply going to wake up and realize what we have become and what we have done to ourselves.

I have seen and personally know devout Catholics who move abroad, and simply cast away a life time of their religion, for the one that appealed to them where they now lived, forsaking all else.  It happens all the time.  It is a matter of geography.

Back on topic:  Did anyone ever check to see the money the City of New York would make from the new Muslim Mosque?  We had one built where I used to live, and the residents fought that to for months at City Hall, but now that it is up and running, they sing the praises of all the money that community now brings into the neighbourhood.  Go figure right?  They all managed to get along and live together, and still are doing it very well.

I think getting all this CRAP out there before an election in the US is good marketing, but at what expense? If everyone, and I mean everyone, got behind the current administration NOW and became part of the solution instead of the problem, it may help a country seriously in need of some unity, but that is just my opinion.  You will get another chance to do this all over again soon enough I suppose.

I am certainly no great brilliant mind that is for sure, but I do know one thing for certain that my grandmother taught me, "you can get more with honey than you do with vinegar!"  That simple rule can apply to anything, big or small in our life.

Just my thoughts on a Saturday afternoon folks. I wish it were all just that simple.


We must use time wisely and forever realize that the time is always ripe to do right.
Nelson Mandela
Denise
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27 posted 07-10-2010 09:28 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks for sharing the videos, Sharon. I admire Dr. Hammond's faith, his pro-life stand for the protection of the pre-born, as well as his speaking out against the evils of marxism, socialism and communism due to the hundreds of thousands who have suffered deprivation of human rights and been killed under those systems in history.

They could build the mosque anywhere else in the city they wish if the City of New York wants their money so badly. Many see their site selection and grand opening date as a particular affront to the sensibilities of those who have suffered so much from the attacks there and ask why. They don't need to build it there, nor open on that date. They know the pain that they are causing and still plan to move forward with their plans. Not very considerate or loving, in my opinion.

Unity at what price? The majority in this country don't believe that this current administration has the right solutions and won't get behind it for the sake of unity at the expense of its deeply held convictions. This administration and Congress have shown non-stop for a year and a half now that they have a blatant disregard for, and no intention of listening to, the will of the people they supposedly serve. Unity is not a one-way-street. Unity is not a goal in and of itself. Unity is a byproduct of mutual respect.
Mysteria
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28 posted 07-10-2010 09:38 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Just to set the record straight, as I was unclear I guess.  I do not agree with Peter Hammond on anything much really. I like to read about people with an opposite view than I myself have, that is all really. It's good to read both sides.         

[This message has been edited by Mysteria (07-10-2010 10:19 PM).]

Denise
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29 posted 07-10-2010 10:36 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The biggest difference I see between the Canadian mosque and the one proposed at Ground Zero is that the Canadian one wasn't being built on what many consider sacred ground, being where their loved ones died such a horrific death. Why were they protesting it so vehemently? The only reason I see for the protest of this project in NY is the site chosen and the date chosen for the grand opening.
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30 posted 07-10-2010 10:41 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Is the same Peter Hammond you’re talking about, the Peter Hammond who took his wife and four children out to shoot paint balls at trick or treating children, the same Peter Hammond who “quickly drove away” after his son hit another child in the face with a paint ball injuring him?


“Controversial pro gun campaigner and ardent Christian evangelist Peter Hammond stated that he was charged with assault after organizing an anti-Halloween paintball gun shooting spree.”
...

“He has also been accused of gun- running for rebels in Sudan, and of assisting the Renamo movement when it was fighting a South African-backed civil war against Mozambique's Frelimo government in the apartheid years.”

http://www.gunslot.com/blog/paintball-gun-spree-pastor-targeted-halloween-kids


“And sent him homeward, Tae think again”
Denise
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31 posted 07-10-2010 10:41 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ooops, I see you've edited your post and deleted the part about the protests being the same thing as happened with the Canadian mosque. I see a big difference unless you had the same situation with site and date issues.
Denise
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32 posted 07-10-2010 10:55 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Well that was certainly a stupid thing for him to do with the paint balls, I agree.

But I don't have a problem with him helping to fight against communism or working to protect the unborn.
JenniferMaxwell
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33 posted 07-10-2010 11:03 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Protecting fetuses but shooting at children and running away after they've been wounded.

What kind of "Christian" does something like that?
.

“And sent him homeward, Tae think again”
JenniferMaxwell
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34 posted 07-10-2010 11:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Have to wonder how many pre or post born were killed with the guns he helped supply. How can a person possibly be "pro-life" if they encourage their own children to assault others and provide arms that kill?

“Controversial right-wing Christian leader and pro-gun lobbyist, the Rev Peter Hammond, has been arrested and charged with treason and insurrection in Sudan, according to his Frontline Fellowship organisation.”

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=1&set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=ct20020410232557138S350799
.

“And sent him homeward, Tae think again”
Stephanos
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35 posted 07-10-2010 11:18 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Jennifer:
quote:
In one of his videos I watched, he mentioned something about the religion/God you believe in now might be the one you condemn had you been born in a different part of the world.


This is quite an inconsistency in his own web of views isn't it?  The problem with this kind of statement is that it could be said of any view religious or otherwise.  The ideology you believe in right now might be the one you condemn had you been born in a different part of the world.  Of course there's some post-modern truth to this, in that many are blind followers, and that everyone is so entwined with their culture that pure objectivity is impossible.  And yet, there are still those who are critical of their own gods, demons, or nations ... embracing something else entirely.  It also misses the fact that religions, like ideologies, really are different in content, and may be analyzed and judged based on that propositional content.  It's just hard to see something for what it really is, from an inch away, or from the other side of the planet for that matter.


Stephen    
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36 posted 07-10-2010 11:25 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I don’t know if it’s an inconsistency or not, Stephen, it’s just something that jumped out at me, something I’d thought about many times myself.

Mysteria
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37 posted 07-10-2010 11:29 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I did edit my post about the protest in New York and the protest about our mosque here.  They can't compare.  The people up here were just afraid, and looked at every single Muslim walking our streets like they were a terrorist, or the ones who bombed New York. Fear does that to you sometimes, clouds our good judgment.  Most of the Muslims were born in Canada, and therefore Canadian Muslims, and deserved the right to their freedom of religion.  

The mosque in New York is opening old wounds that are raw and circumstances are totally different.  I can't even pretend to understand how "those" people feel.  It is unfathomable to me the pain suffered to friends and family of those killed.  The only thing I can understand is that moving forward is always progress.  Those folks are mostly American Muslims in New York, and if you read the articles, second generation American Muslims, who only want the same rights as anyone else - Freedom Of Religion.  However strange, they see it as extending an olive branch.  We will see if it gets built.  I found this article interesting:   Illume - New York Protest


JenniferMaxwell
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38 posted 07-10-2010 11:48 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I'm wondering how far away the proposed mosque would actually be from Ground Zero. Read some where it was two blocks, but I have no idea how big a block is in NYC. Tried Google maps and it looked like a little less than half a mile but I'm not good at that sort of thing so I could be way off.

Is the mosque actually going to be visible from Ground Zero or will there be other buildings blocking view of it?

I think it's  a risky thing to do, it's sort of like asking for trouble. Lots of loose cannons on the streets of New York. Out of concern for the safety of those who would use the facility, I might give it a rethink. But I guess they own the building now, so maybe that's why they chose that particular location? Tough call.
Sunshine
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39 posted 07-10-2010 11:53 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I'm going to hijack my own thread. I believe I'm allowed to do so.

First of all, I'm going to apologize for the following:

1. For not reading about or doing research on and/or doing a thorough background of an individual who strikes me favorably, even if from a forwarded email from a trusted friend;

2. And I will probably never again [note, probably] base an Alley thread on an emotional front;

3. Nor will I ever post a thread in the Alley without giving it more than an emotional basis; i.e., thinking it through [note the difference from above];

4. Nor will I give my PiP friends the idea that I might be insensitive [when speaking from the heart on basically and only on one point, especially when I didn't consider how the rest of the message might hit them]

For you see, I am not an intolerant jerk who doesn't believe that all religions might not coincide and reside by one another peacefully - it could be done, it can be done...respectfully, with consideration and tolerance and understanding.

Ironically, I have been learning from this thread. I thought I had posted this commentary strictly as a kudo to someone I admit I do not know, but to which I will admit to admiring his one point in fact, of the building of anything over Ground Zero, which bothered me greatly. Still, I didn't take into consideration the other points that he was making, and that could be considered, "my bad". However, I did listen to the entire feature and didn't turn it off in the middle or near middle or the first two minutes. I listened all the way through. My bad was in not thinking it through all the way on how it would affect everyone on this site, and most particularly those folk who frequent the Alley.

I actually thought I might be doing a service.

You see, I'm still greatly distressed, personally, by the ill manners we, as a nation, portrayed to the American Native decades ago, and on many levels.

I am only "native American" by way of generational progression. I am a Heinz 57 variety human. There is so much about my own heritage I can't point out, but God Bless the US, should I run for government, I'm pretty sure there would be a whole slew of folk out there who could factor in my heritage that I would either be worthy, or not, of running for office.    

That being said, I won't apologize for posting the link. I will apologize, however, if I offended anyone from my short-sightedness of not researching the speaker, his origins, his right for saying what he wants to say, and that alleged fact that he may be an atheist is not yet something I've researched, but if some of you say so? Well, then, it could probably be true.

What I will stick by to, like oatmeal on a spoon, is the thought in this day and age of a ceremonial site being given over to any church/religion. It is the City of New York's site, and yes, I guess they, with the factors and politicians who are governing the city, well, they can do as they please, but it strikes me wrong that any New Yorker who considers themselves an American who suffered such a slaughter should allow ANY faction, religious or otherwise, to park their butts over this monument of loss.

I know for a fact that various American Indian sites that have been showcased as an archeological site over the more insensitive years have been closed down. I live very close to such a site. Very close.

To those who might have thought for a brief moment that I don't tolerate all religions, please know that the brief instant you thought that was my error in my wording in the original post. It was my point, although not briefed well, that nothing other than a remembrance to those lost on that site, should be the only building of monuments erected.

Now, if I can just have a quick swift kick in the behind if I ever again ignore the rules I set above for myself from any of my friends before I ever post in the Alley again, I give you my profuse thanks ahead of time. Not that I won't post...but I will make sure I do my research ahead of time.

Thank you.

P.S. I also noted, just before I posted this thread, that some folk among us are now actually thinking how this link might have hit me...

And I thank them for posting their thoughts.


[This message has been edited by Sunshine (07-11-2010 12:01 AM).]

serenity blaze
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40 posted 07-11-2010 12:00 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

We're not supposed to be emotional in here?



The word passion is in the very name of this place, and try as I might, I still don't know how to get to passion without emotion.

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41 posted 07-11-2010 12:03 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Ahh, my friend...I do get emotional about certain things...and don't always have my head above and/or out of my otherwise wide behind. But I do try.

To be sensible, and sensitive, that is.

serenity blaze
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42 posted 07-11-2010 12:11 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I just made Chicken Lo Mein with Ramen noodles.

That has nothing to do with anything, but I just thought I'd add that.

*laughing*

Oh. And I tried some of that Sunshine stuff. I think my eyeballs are peeling.

(Sorry for the hijack of the thread, but that guy has been getting wayyyy too much press.)

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43 posted 07-11-2010 12:24 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

You're more than welcome....

Essorant
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44 posted 07-11-2010 12:24 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Christians I think should be the last ones to stereotype Islam so wrongly.  Have they not faced enough stereotypes of their religion and their book, based on misconceptions and examples of abuse/malpractice of Christianity?  It is much hypocrisy if they will turn around and commit the same thing on Muslims that they have complained about being done to them.

Sunshine
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45 posted 07-11-2010 12:26 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

And you just reminded me of something, Sis Serene One...

This is exactly why my folks taught me, "never talk about 'Sex, Politics, or Religion' in the presence of company." They never told me about what might happen when doing it in the midst of

....

Family!

Essorant
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46 posted 07-11-2010 12:38 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
Have a hug, Ess.

You must have some kinda neutralizing pheremones for me lately. *chuckle*  


Thanks Serenity    If I can recognize misled thoughts/confusion, it is because I have struggled with so much of my own!  Thankfully discussing things as reasonably as possible at this site has helped me overcome them much over the years.

 
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47 posted 07-11-2010 12:50 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It's just..cumulative despair.

I'd sigh, but every time I exhale, something else happenss.
Mysteria
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48 posted 07-11-2010 01:11 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Jennifer, the location of the proposed Cordoba Center and mosque is in the old Burlington Coat Factory on Park Place. They bought that building in 2009.

Go to Google maps, and type in 45 Park Place to Ground Zero.  It is not all that close really in distance, but only close in too many other ways.

Kari, I can't tell you the number of times I "jumped the gun" as it were, and posted something I thought was just wonderful,  Later I would find out it was not all that great.  You are certainly not alone in having done it, and surely won't be the last.    

Oh goodie, I have time to put a link in here again     If you have time also have a read of The Downtown Express link on that page, as it says a lot.

Cordobian Initiative Article
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     Ground zero is already being built on.  Construct has been going on for a while now.  I believe the buildings are mostly office buildings, but much more solidly built than before, and there have been momument and memorial spaces reserved on that site.  Nobody is interested in forgetting 9/11 as far as I know.  I know I'm not.  

     But there are protections on Freedom of Religion, and I am alarmed at how quickly those protections are forgotten or how quickly we are willing to put them aside.  I suspect there were people of every faith lost in the World Trade Center explosions, including Muslims.  Muslims have a right to have a place of worship of their own, especially in a country that says that it respects freedom of religion.

     Same as anybody, if they break any laws there, charges should be brought.  But there is no need to assume that laws will be broken any more than one would make that assumption about a Quaker Meeting Hall or a Catholic Church.

  
    
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