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Denise
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75 posted 07-11-2010 12:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I've never been involved on either side of the law in having to use an attorney so I can't speak from personal experience on that one, Ron. But in this case I guess we'll never know now since Holder ordered it dropped.

The determination in the Voting Rights Division since Holder took over, according to the sworn testimony of Adams, to not prosecute cases when blacks are the offenders and whites are the victims is unconscionable. Justice should be color blind, as I'm sure you would agree.
JenniferMaxwell
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76 posted 07-11-2010 12:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

J. Christian Adams:

- longtime conservative activist
- 2004 Bush campaign poll watcher in Florida
- volunteer with the Republican National Committee’s National Republican Lawyers Association
- hired by Bradley Schlozman who was at the center of the U.S. attorneys scandal
             “Schlozman discussed hiring "right-thinking Americans" and ridding the Civil Rights                        Division of "pinkos", "commies", and attorneys perceived to be unacceptably liberal.”

Bartle Bull:

- Calls himself a Democrat but supported McCain/Palin in 2008 and other Republican candidates now.
- Spoke out against Obama before the election
- Lives/practices in New York but in 2008 went to PA on Election Day to support/poll watch for McCain

The attorneys supporting Adams’ claims re the DOJ

- Were also Scholzman hires
- No longer at the DOJ
- Now working for Right leaning firms

Just curious, Denise. What do you think would have been the appropriate punishment/sentence for the three New Panthers? And in the case mentioned below, do you think the Bush DOJ was wrong to drop the lawsuit? Is a glock less lethal than a nightstick? Is confronting Hispanic voters, while carrying a gun, taking names, photographing them while waiting to vote less intimidating than using a racial slur I won’t repeat?

“Fox News refuses to report on Bush-era DOJ decision that undermines GOP activist's claims”
...
“Bush-era DOJ chose not to prosecute a similar case against Arizona Minutemen
Perez: "[T]he Department declined to bring any action for alleged voter intimidation" in 2006. In his May 14 testimony before the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Thomas Perez, assistant attorney general for the DOJ's civil rights division, highlighted a case that completely undermines the notion that the DOJ's decisions in the Black Panthers case were unprecedented or racially motivated. Perez testified that in 2006, the DOJ "declined to bring any action for alleged voter intimidation" "when three well-known anti-immigrant advocates affiliated with the Minutemen, one of whom was carrying a gun, allegedly intimidated Latino voters at a polling place by approaching several persons, filming them, and advocating and printing voting materials in Spanish." [U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 5/14/10]”
... http://mediamatters.org/iphone/research/201007050005

Brown's a color, isn't it?
.

"And sent him homeward, Tae think again."
Denise
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77 posted 07-11-2010 02:46 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

All cases of voter intimidation should be investigated and prosecuted if warranted. The DOJ should be investigated and purged of any and all racially motivated determinations. ALL the people should have equal protection under the law. Race or ethnicity should not enter into the decision making process in whether to pursue a case or not in any way shape or manner, wouldn't you agree?
Denise
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78 posted 07-11-2010 02:52 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

This should be investigated as well: Democratic Primary fraud perpetrated by Obama camp against Hillary campaign:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwewillnotbesilenced2008.com%2Fvideo%2Findex.htm&h=3f39ccU0hMSowxF70890oNyX6uA

Won't be holding my breath, though.
Ron
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79 posted 07-11-2010 05:17 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
All cases of voter intimidation should be investigated and prosecuted if warranted.

I would certainly agree with that assertion, Denise, so long as your "if warranted" qualifier was meant to cover both prosecution AND investigation? There's not enough resources in the world to investigate every kook who yells fowl whenever things don't go their way. I can't imagine anyone wanting us to waste time and money pursuing allegations with no hope they'll ever lead to anything concrete.

There, however, is where we run into problems.

Every decent American, Denise, wants voter intimidation eliminated. But where we are in complete agreement on that, it's always going to be much more difficult (impossible!) to agree which claims are credible and which are not.
JenniferMaxwell
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80 posted 07-11-2010 06:05 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Sorry Denise, I don't go anywhere near facebook. Could you give me just a clue what you're referring to? Thanks!
Balladeer
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81 posted 07-11-2010 06:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

it's always going to be much more difficult (impossible!) to agree which claims are credible and which are not.

Feel free to call me a simpleton, Ron  but, in my book, a fellow in Black Panther garb, beating a nightstick against his hand while making racial slurs at whites entering to vote, is really not that difficult to call credible.
JenniferMaxwell
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82 posted 07-11-2010 07:10 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Allegedly “beating a nightstick against his hand while making racial slurs at whites entering to vote.” Where are the videos showing shabazz at the polls  “beating a nightstick against his hand while making racial slurs”, where are the statements from “whites entering to vote” alleging shabazz slurred or intimidated them? They simply don’t exist, do they?
.

"And sent him homeward, Tae think again."


Balladeer
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83 posted 07-11-2010 08:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jenn...the videos  with the nightstick are clearly visible. You did better when suggesting he was a republican plant.
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84 posted 07-11-2010 08:26 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Carrying a gun in the open is allowed in PA, what’s the law re nightsticks?

I know you can’t take a gun into a polling place, but what’s the law re having one outside a polling place in PA? Does that law also apply to nightsticks?

After nearly two years, and all the recent Fox hype about the incident, still no voters have come forth to allege they were intimidated. Guess it was only the girly men Republican poll watchers who felt intimidated.

Balladeer
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85 posted 07-11-2010 08:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

aha...I see things are back to normal. Enjoy...
JenniferMaxwell
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86 posted 07-11-2010 08:44 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Guess that means you don't know the answer to those questions. No problem, Balladeer, Denise lives in PA, maybe she knows.

JenniferMaxwell
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87 posted 07-11-2010 08:55 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

And the Republicans did have a plant. Bull was there trying to look like a Republican poll watcher. Bad Dem!
Denise
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88 posted 07-11-2010 10:08 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

My only concern, Ron, is that race play no part in the evaluation, investigation, or prosecutorial decisions that are made. According to Adams' testimony it does. That needs to be addressed so that justice is applied equally to all.

Blackjacks (nightsticks, billyclubs) are prohibited offensive weapons anywhere and at anytime in PA.

Here is a complete list of offensive weapons that are prohibited in PA:

Under §908(a) (relating to Prohibited offensive weapons) of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code, a person commits a Misdemeanor of the 1st degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon.  A prohibited offensive weapons is defined as any of the following that can cause serious bodily injury and serve no common lawful purpose

Any bomb or grenade

A machine gun

A sawed-off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches

A firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge

Any blackjack, sandbag, or metal knuckles

A dagger, knife, razor, or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise

Any stun gun, stun baton, taser or other electronic or electric weapon

Any other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose

A license is required for concealed weapons in PA but not for open carry, except in Philadelphia where a license is also required for open carry.

Firearms, open carry and concealed, are allowed in all locations except:

Off-limits places in PA and what makes them off-limits:

1. Court Facilities - PA Title 18, Chapter 9, Subsection 913

2a.*Grounds and buildings of Elementary and Secondary schools(K-12 grades), whether the school is private or public. There is an affirmative defense for "other lawful purposes" however there is no case law determining on what that includes. To be safe, its wiser to assume it does not include our carrying "rights". - PA Title 18, Chapter 9, Subsection 912

2b. Within 1000ft of a school unless you have a license/permit issued by the state in which the school is located - US Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, Subsection 922(q)

3. Casinos - by regulation Title 58, Part VII, Chapter 465, Subsection 465a.13

4. Certain Department of State buildings - by regulation

5. ****Places off-limits by Federal Law or regulation, IE: military installations(exceptions for hunting at some bases), Federal Government buildings, after the security check point in airports,etc.

6. Any private property where a landowner, tenant or person so authorized to maintain property has asked you to leave because you are carrying, or where the property owner or tenant has placed signs or placards denoting that guns are forbidden - Title 18, Chapter 35, Subsection 3503

7. Detention facilities, correctional institutes, or mental hospitals - Title 18, Chapter 51, Subsection 5122

So unless a polling place is located at one of the above restricted locations, you can also open carry there.

Here is the previous link for you Jen, 'unfacebooked'.
http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htm
Bob K
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89 posted 07-11-2010 11:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     If there are criminal violations or civil violations of the law, bring charges or bring suit if you have standing in the case.  If you don't have standing in the case, get enough information to find the lawyers that represent those people who do and contribute to the cause.  You don't have to accept non-action by the department of justice, as I understand things; that's simply one means of approaching the issue.  The problem would be in finding some fashion in which you would be supporting a party that had standing in a case or the case that goes to the heart of the issue that gets you upset.

     I guess I'm speaking to Denise, here.  Complaining about the Department of Justice doesn't seem to be a particularly effective thing to do, except in terms of getting yourself angry.  If in fact there is discriminatory enforcement of civil rights laws, that's simply flat out wrong and it requires a legal means of redress, doesn't it?

     My feeling is that the civil rights laws are sloppily enforced overall, and that the majority of the discrimination has been and continues to be against minorities.  My feelings aren't worth squat.  Any discrimination is an abomination, and you have as much right to be upset as anybody else.  Having the sense of it coming in the direction of the majority is novel and upsetting for those of us occasionally on the receiving end of it because we really are NOT used to it.  We have a right to object as well, certainly, and we should.

     It should make us, among other things, all that much more zealous in eliminating all discrimination, no matter where it is directed.  Since it starts more easily against minorities, we should be at least as careful about discrimination against minorities as we are against discrimination directed against ourselves.

     Support civil rights lawyers who bring suit against discriminatory practices against situations that you believe to be unjust.  If you don't like the Situation with the Panthers, support bringing suit there; don't depend on the Department of Justice to do all the work for you.  Sometimes the government will not be on your side.  Minorities know this very well.  You should too.

     Simply because I'm more on the side of the minorities in this business doesn't mean that the rules of community organizing shouldn't be useful to you as well.  You feel you have a legitimate gripe.  You have others of a like mind.  You can use the legal system and the political system, too; and you should.

     It's American as all get-out.

     We have occasional disagreements about the facts, and we have occasional massive differences of opinion, but I don't see that anybody want something bad (at least in their own frame of reference) for the other folks.  It's simply that the other folks disagree.

     And we all know that those other folks are like, don't we?  

     Makes me shudder to even think of them.
JenniferMaxwell
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90 posted 07-11-2010 11:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

This case gets stranger by the minute. According to the info you posted Denise, and thanks very much for that, it seems that in PA possessing a nightstick is a first degree misdemeanor yet the police must not have thought so since they didn’t arrest shabazz. The injunction against shabazz prohibits him from brandishing a weapon outside a polling place until 2012. Does that mean that AFTER 2012 he can?  Not making sense to me, seems like there’s something missing.

As for the other link, really couldn’t get much out of it because of all the screaming in the background. I’m guessing that you’re trying to show there were irregularities at some of the Dem caucuses. But there were also irregularities at Republican caucuses. Do you want those investigated also? Guess I’m missing your point.


Denise
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91 posted 07-11-2010 11:36 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It costs money to bring law suits, Bob. Unfortunately I have none. Well, I have some, enough for living expenses, but that is shrinking daily as well.

The Civil Rights Commission is holding an investigation, so we'll just have to hope they do the right thing.
Denise
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92 posted 07-11-2010 11:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Sometimes the police give people a pass. They asked him to leave and he did. If he refused I'm sure they would have charged him with the weapons offense.

That ruling prohibiting him from carrying a weapon outside a polling place until 2012, didn't make any sense to me either. It sure seems like it could be interpreted that he can in 2012. I guess the Justice Dept. wasn't familiar with PA law when they came up with that doozy.

The videos are easier to watch on the individual YouTube videos, further down. The screaming only lasts a few seconds and then it goes into the interviews. 2000 complaints of fraud were reported in the Texas Caucus alone. They were all ignored by the DNC. Yes, I think all instances of fraud should be investigated, regardless of party.

Denise
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93 posted 07-13-2010 09:00 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Letter to the President:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=177957
JenniferMaxwell
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94 posted 07-13-2010 12:09 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I don't know about the Philadelphia police, but where I live, anyone actually threatening another person with physical harm doesn't get "a pass" from the police. Did those Republican poll watchers file complaints with the police alleging they were actually threatened or saw others being threatened? If so, what was the outcome?
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95 posted 07-13-2010 01:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The "brandishing a weapon" part of the injunction made no sense to me. Checked a little more and read that the actual injunction banned shabazz from being within 100 feet of any polling place through 2012, there was no mention of limiting it to "brandishing a weapon" within 100 feet. Wonder which is true?
JenniferMaxwell
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96 posted 07-13-2010 02:48 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Found it:
http://www.slideshare.net/LegalDocs/findlaw-voting-rights-new-black-panther-party-figure-shabazzs-weapons-order
Denise
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97 posted 07-13-2010 08:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I've personally seen the police give people passes who should have been arrested. I think sometimes they just want to try to placate a situation if at all possible and only take stronger action if the situation can't be resolved any other way. It may also have something to do with being understaffed and overworked too. They seem even more reluctant to make arrests when they didn't actually observe something themselves, but only arrived after the fact. Shabazz probably wasn't shooting off his mouth when he saw the police heading his way. Since the police got him to leave the scene, maybe the eyewitnesses decided to just report it to the Voting Rights Commission, or maybe that it what the police advised would be the best course to take.

quote:
The defendant King Samir Shabazz is
ENJOINED from displaying a weapon within 100 feet of any open polling location on any election day in the City of Philadelphia, or from otherwise violating 42 U.S.C.§  1973i (b);

This Court shall maintain jurisdiction over this matter until November 15, 2012 to enforce this Order as necessary;



Although the weapons enjoinment is redundant, since his weapon of choice is always and everywhere illegal in PA, at least now there is no way he could legally open carry a gun (not that he could even obtain the required license, having been on tape advocating murder), and the enjoinment is not restricted by date. It is for any election day in the City of Philadelphia. The date is merely when the Court's jurisdiction over the matter will terminate.

A slap on the wrist.
Balladeer
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98 posted 07-13-2010 09:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course it is, Denise. Any attempt to not recognize the DOJ as being racially biased is to deny reality. The race card has been played ever since Obama became president, normally by Obama, who began it even during his presidential campaign. Now the NAACP is picking up the torch for support. Get used to it. It will be used for as long as Obama occupies the Oval office, and probably even beyond that to excuse his failings.
Denise
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99 posted 07-13-2010 09:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And now we hear from the slanderous racists known as the NAACP:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=178801

Unbelievable. Clean your own ranks of its racists before you go looking for them elsewhere.

These people are trying to push back the progress made in race relations in this country by more than 100 years. It's no wonder we have groups like the Panthers and Farrahkan's group.
 
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