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JenniferMaxwell
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25 posted 07-07-2010 08:38 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Oops, double post, sorry.
JenniferMaxwell
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26 posted 07-07-2010 08:41 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You don't have to do more than you can, Karen, no one expects it. Just start the thread and pop in when you feel up to it.

There is a sense of hopelessness. Perhaps the bickering is a defense/escape mechanism, a way to put the fear aside if only for a little while?

serenity blaze
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27 posted 07-07-2010 10:07 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I don't even know where or how to start.

I AM SO FILLED WITH RAGE.

I want BP to face charges of manslaughter.

I live here--I know these guys, I know their families....and they KNEW.

Guys don't go out on a rig that's shaking like a virgin on her wedding night without people knowing--those guys were scared to go to work and scared NOT to--scared they would be fired--and they would have been....

"Not enough mud goes dat deep."

"Dat" is a quote, too.

I am so enraged---people keep saying that we are unlucky--UNLUCKY?

Our levees failed after numerous previously filed complaints, (records under water) and now evidence shows, that the BP corp. also knew that they were operating a "shaky" rig--the evidence mounts that AGAIN, deregulation played a major part in the O.S. of BP--with ties to Halliburton with ties to our former Commanders-in-Chiefs, and we, the citizens of Louisiana have been screaming, for fifty years, regarding the loss of our (YOUR) wetlands for nearly a century-as storm after storm wiped out our natural barrier islands, and YES, our own local government officials pocketed monies while we took the nation's toxic waste up the olr wazoo, and Federal Government also failed us, because, yanno? I think somebody should have said something regardikng the RICO law and the Marcellos family, because if you think that the fact that we are a port city that docks SHIPS doesn't factor into graft--well..I'd have a story to write if I could get half of these old folks to talk about it. But I digress and they are...dead.

Let me explain something about where I live--it's called the Westbank, but it is actually EAST. That is how screwed up we are. I have recipes in my head from people who lived their entire lives here and only saw the lights of New Orleans.

They never crossed the river and never wanted  to do so...

I'll stop. I am starting to sound like James Carville.

But I do warn you all--a documentary (don't everybody groan at once) by the name of GASLAND shows, on a map, the damage done to the land of our nation by natural gas wells, and there were only two places I could spot that remained "green"


One was Florida. (Congrat's Floridians) and the other was The Grand Canyon.

And damn.

I've forgotten the question...

OH

I wanted a thread about an ecological revolution....

I want more, yes MORE government incentive, for wind turbines, solar panels, I am sitting here wishing I could afford all the cool technology other countries have--hell, I live in a swamp and I want a water conservation unit thingie.

I want our communities to start co-opting these empty lots into community gardens. I want..gasp..hydroponics, so we won't have to worry so much about Bad Boy Benzines and all of his Easy Ethyl girlfriends.

I'd also like to borrow some gonads so I can say this stuff out loud, because um, me and my family are already the Liberal Atheists Who Despise All That is ... not government.

And I am not getting this?

People who enjoy tea bagging, resent being called tea baggers, reset being called ignorant although the terminology was already encultured, and now, NOW? Even NOW, they demand smaller gov't and deregulation of corporate BULLIES, YEP, DRIL BABY DRILL., yer gonna need that petroleum when you get bent over your non existent tax deducts...cause really, all the government is trying to do is make people pay more to get rich.

If you REALLY REALLY believe that supporting that plan is supporting a socialist/marksist<---I swear I saw someone spell it that way--and let's all gasp and say COMMUNIST--let us follow the freaking money.

If you went to WalMart in the past week, chances are you just threw your MONEY, your energy--IN GOD WE TRUST--you probably spent at least 36 hours of your time, supporting a communist regime that supports forced abortion, and child labor. Taiwan must be amazing. EVERYTHING is made there.

And they don't really believe in Jesus, they prefer their money in Euros.

There's a lot of stuff to be ticked off about...

Pick a card, Jen, any card...You too, Denise.

I say we have a budget crisis. So we start, at home, and we start properly fixing things so that we don't have to keep buying very pricey ineffective duct tape--no offense to duct tape. I like the stuff very much.

Hmmm...who makes it, though?
Denise
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28 posted 07-07-2010 10:24 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

He was identified in the news pieces that I have heard about him as one of the poll watchers, Jen. If he technically wasn't on one of the official lists, he was at least there with the consent of one who was on the list, a fellow radical New Black Panther who was hired by the local Democratic Party.

That everyone isn't outraged over this blatant display of racism and its subsequently being swept under the rug by the DOJ is beyond my ability to understand.

On another note, I sympathize with your plight Karen. You and the others harmed by this BP disaster are in my thoughts and prayers daily. And I sincerely pray that BP and the Administration get their acts together and do everything possible to alleviate the devastation and suffering.

serenity blaze
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29 posted 07-07-2010 10:35 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Thank you Denise.

I know I'm off topic, but you've always been kind to me, and I appreciate that very much.

Now. I'm sorry. Racism?

*smile*

I just discovered what real picante' tastes like--what racism? Me and Andrew Bordain are gonna get bloaty-beer-pigged together one day.

Ain't got no racists here, man. Just gumbo.


JenniferMaxwell
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30 posted 07-07-2010 11:23 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

ďIn recent years, many minority communities have tended to align with the Democratic Party. Over the past two decades, the Republican Party has launched a series of 'ballot security' and 'voter integrity' initiatives which have targeted minority communities. At least three times, these initiatives were successfully challenged in federal courts as illegal attempts to suppress voter participation based on race.

The first was a 1981 case in New Jersey which protested the use of armed guards to challenge Hispanic and African-American voters, and exposed a scheme to disqualify voters using mass mailings of outdated voter lists. The case resulted in a consent decree prohibiting efforts to target voters by race.

Six years later, similar 'ballot security' efforts were launched against minority voters in Louisiana, Georgia, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Indiana. Republican National Committee documents said the Louisiana program alone would 'eliminate at least 60- 80,000 folks from the rolls,' again drawing a court settlement.

And just three years later in North Carolina, the state Republican Party, the Helms for Senate Committee and others sent postcards to 125,000 voters, 97 percent of whom were African American, giving them false information about voter eligibility and warning of criminal penalties for voter fraud - again resulting in a decree against the use of race to target voters.Ē
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Jim-Crow-Intimidation26aug04.htm


ďPerhaps the Panthers should have been prosecuted under section 11 (b) of the Voting Rights Act for their actions of November 2008, but the legal standards that must be met to prove voter intimidation ó the charge ó are very high. In the 45 years since the act was passed, there have been a total of three successful prosecutions. The incident involved only three Panthers at a single majority-black precinct in Philadelphia. So far ó after months of hearings, testimony and investigation ó no one has produced actual evidence that any voters were too scared to cast their ballots. Too much overheated rhetoric filled with insinuations and unsubstantiated charges has been devoted to this case.Ē

- Abigail Thernstrom, National Review

I found the language in the video you posted very offensive, Denise, and yes, I'd call it racist. But that video has nothing to do with what happened at the polling place. Unfortunately hate radio jock Beck has been implying that particular hate speech occurred then. That seems very dishonest and an attempt to distort what actually happened. And why would he want to do that?

ďHereís something about national news. When itís potentially bad for, or could be misconstrued to blame, liberals, and itís real, Fox News does a great job researching and hyping it. At the same time, Media Matters does a great job adding controversy to the way Fox reports its news. And in the end, the New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case, which began on Fairmount Avenue in 2008, may end up being a backdoor campaign tool for the GOP in 2012.Ē

http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow/2010/07/07/new-allegations-statements-and-hope-for-gop-regarding-new-black-panther-case-in-philly/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_c ampaign=new-allegations-statements-and-hope-for-gop-regarding-new-black-panther-case-in-philly
Denise
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31 posted 07-07-2010 12:23 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Jen, in addition to the video, eyewitnesses also produced sworn affidavits attesting to the racist inflammatory comments directed toward whites as they were entering and leaving the polling place by the Panthers. So, yes, hateful, racist speech like you heard on the tape did occur at the polling place. It shouldn't matter that they were unsuccessful in their intimidation attempts. But maybe that is why only civil charges were filed. Maybe criminal charges would have been filed if they had been successful in scaring any voters away. But I guess Holder would have ordered those dropped as well, who knows. But it is disgraceful that the civil charges were dropped even AFTER winning a default judgement when the Panthers failed to appear for their hearing.
JenniferMaxwell
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32 posted 07-07-2010 02:46 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

There was a judgment against shabazz, the DOJ dropped the suit only against the other two. This happened well over a year ago, why are you bringing it up now? Did you mention it a year ago when the suit was dropped? Has something changed since then? I hope youíre not going to be beating Gracie, too.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/cityhall/Feds_Quietly_Drop_Suit_Against_New_Black_Panther_Party.html

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33 posted 07-07-2010 02:59 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes I did bring this up here when it first happened. I'm bringing it up again now because it just seems to have made the national news with the testimony of the attorney who resigned so that he could testify in front of the Civil Rights Commission, having been forbidden by the DOJ to comply with a lawful subpoena, as were the other attorneys who chose to keep their jobs and ignore the subpoenas.

[This message has been edited by Denise (07-07-2010 04:24 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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34 posted 07-08-2010 08:35 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ_dt5KjCmo
Denise
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35 posted 07-08-2010 11:56 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It's no surprise to me that they play 'kill the messenger' when they can't defend the activities in question.
JenniferMaxwell
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36 posted 07-08-2010 02:18 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I didnít get it, why anyone would post that offensive, foul language, racist video in #1 on a family site in a G rated forum? Why not just post the video taken at the polling place? Was it because the polling place video wasnít inflammatory enough? Was it because it didnít show shabazz or Jackson threatening or interfering with voters in any way? Was it because all it showed was a rather mild incident, a Republican poll watcher questioning shabazz who didnít at that time use threatening, racist or foul language? I didnít get it but now I do,  fanning the flames of racial hatred.

I have reported the video as containing rule violations, profanity (bleeping in audio is like @#$%) and advocating harm to human beings. Will await the mods and admins decision on it.

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37 posted 07-08-2010 05:01 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Serenity:
quote:
I beg you. Work together.



That's all I wish for Serenity. Is that we, as a United Nation...a United States...would work together.

Yes, we had a Civil War.

One would think we might have learned something.



We seem determined to divide ourselves. I find myself praying constantly.

Bob K
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38 posted 07-08-2010 08:29 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Standards of proof in criminal cases are higher and the cases are more difficult to make.

     In lawsuits, the standards can be as low as "the Preponderance of the Evidence," meaning just of 50%.  If the suit was won against Shabazz, it was carried with that level of proof.  If it was dismissed against his confederates, it was dismissed because it was unlikely that that level of proof could be met.  It would seem logical because the discussion so far has indicated that the suit against Shabazz was followed through.

     If there is evidence that Shabazz was in fact an agent of the Democratic party, then it should appear in competent press reports.  Why not quote them?  Why not talk about this in terms that can be dealt with as concretely as possible?

     If Denise is worried that she won't get a good ear here, she must understand that the last time we had to deal with this sort of stuff was when Fox news and the Republican Party attacked a perfectly decent community organizing group and produced doctored tapes that forced them out of business.  The Republican Party lauded the  fraudulent film makers, and the Community organizing group has not recovered.

     The Republican Party has a history of this sort of stuff, including election fraud in Florida and in other situations that Jennifer mentioned earlier in this thread, resulting in judgements against the party and its affiliates.  To believe new Republican allegations of this sort requires more than the smears and allegations the Republicans customarily put forth.  It actually requires some solid proof.

     I am willing to listen to it, but I really expect it to be solid enough to overcome the historical handicap the Republicans have lamed themselves with other the years.

    

    
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39 posted 07-08-2010 09:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Another, "Well, the republicans did it..." to justify everything. Why am I not surprised?
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40 posted 07-08-2010 09:51 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Bob:
quote:
The Republican Party has a history of this sort of stuff


and the Dems don't?

Really, Bob. At this time, and arena, we all need to disengage in cynicism, and really see the problems at hand. We need to quit undermining one another. I'm not asking that you agree with one side or another; I am asking, however, that we all work together. I think as a whole we have an entire community that is far more intelligent than the people who have been elected to benefit themselves.

I am for the United States. Aren't you?

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41 posted 07-08-2010 10:56 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



    
quote:


and the Dems don't?

Really, Bob. At this time, and arena, we all need to disengage in cynicism, and really see the problems at hand. We need to quit undermining one another. I'm not asking that you agree with one side or another; I am asking, however, that we all work together. I think as a whole we have an entire community that is far more intelligent than the people who have been elected to benefit themselves.

I am for the United States. Aren't you?



     I was talking about legal judgements against the party and the way the party did business, Sunshine.  To the best of my knowledge, the Democrats have no judgements against them, nor have they been found legally responsible for election fraud.  They have screamed loudly about the Democrats and made many accusations, and many of those many accusations have been aired in these pages.

     Those accusations have been largely for voter fraud, particularly upsetting to the Republicans because it threatens to allow new voters onto the rolls.  New voters have by and large proven to to have been Democratic voters.  As have minority voters, by and large.  Sadly for the Republicans, while they have made many many accusations of registration fraud, they don't seem to have have much success in obtaining convictions.  The refrain heard in these pages is, "Just wait!" but the convictions never seem to materialize.

     On the other hand, the judgements have  gone against the Republicans in Florida, Ohio, Michigan and other states for systematic attempts to strike Democratic voters from the rolls, and, in South Carolina, for example, to try to intimidate them to stay away from the polling places by use of legal threats.  Attempts to use these tactics have affected tens of thousands of especially black and other minority voters.

     I certainly am a Democrat from personal conviction, but if you've followed by comments in these pages, you should be reasonably clear that I am not an uncritical Democrat.  You can check for yourself about what my quarrels are with this administration and with the direction the party has been taking.  You should also be aware that I have admiration for the occasional Republican or Republican position, and that I've said as much in these pages as well.

     Your appeal that we all work together should be familiar to you as one that has come from my pen as well, and with reasonable frequency.

     Yes, I am for the United States.

     No, I do not believe that getting voters thrown off the voting rolls by what has been legally determined to be fraud, is anything that I should support, and I find it upsetting that you would support such activity.  Or that you would consider it to be identical or even equivalent of being accused of getting Mickey Mouse registered to vote when the company that has been accused of trying to do so pointed out the bizarre violation itself, and only turned the registration in to the registrar because it was legally mandated to do so anyway.

     Because that's the way the election laws happen to be written.

     Suggesting that I'm anti-American because I don't agree with your way of seeing the two Parties in this country, I hope, is not your idea of how we need to stop undermining each other.  If it is, you might consider a thread that would discuss the subject on a more serious level rather than one that suggests that I'm anti-american for not agreeing with your presuppositions or having different information.
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42 posted 07-09-2010 12:09 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Civil Rights Commissioner: "[N]o citizen has even alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting." In an April 23 hearing on the DOJ's decision in the case, Civil Rights Commissioner Arlan Melendez noted that "no citizen has even alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting," which "was clear to the Justice Department last spring, which is why they took the course of action that they did." From the April 23 Civil Rights Commission hearing:

MELENDEZ: My remarks are going to be brief because I think far too much of our time has been consumed on this seemingly unnecessary investigation. Citizens should be able to vote without intimidation, and it is our Commission's duty to investigate complaints from citizens that their voting rights have been infringed.

In this case, however, no citizen has even alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting at the Fairmount Avenue Polling Station in 2008. This absence of voter intimidation was clear to the Justice Department last spring, which is why they took the course of action that they did.

This absence of voter intimidation was clear to the members of this Commission as well, or at least it should've been. Our investigation has been going on now for the better part of a year. We have wasted a good deal of our staff's time, and the taxpayers' money.

Main Justice: "[N]o voters at all in the Philadelphia precinct have come forward to allege intimidation." A July 2 article on Main Justice reported that "no voters at all in the Philadelphia precinct have come forward to allege intimidation" adding, "The complaints have come from white Republican poll watchers, who have given no evidence they were registered to vote in the majority black precinct. "
http://mediamatters.org/research/201007060063

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43 posted 07-09-2010 04:24 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

That's a serious accusation you are making against me concerning my intent, Jennifer. Care to rethink that?

I posted this not to fan the flames of racial hatred but to shine a spotlight on those who actually do, and on the hypocrisy of those in the administration who condone it by sweeping their wrongdoing under the carpet.

More on the DOJ:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/lawlessness-at-the-doj-voting-section-told-not-to-enforce-purging-the-dead-or-ineligible-from-voting-rolls/?singlepage=true
JenniferMaxwell
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44 posted 07-09-2010 05:09 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I have been thinking about it, thinking about it a lot, Denise. I have class tonight, don't have time to get into it very much right now.

Something for you to think about. Do you really believe that video is appropriate for a G rated forum on a family site? Do you think posting something that contains profanity and advocates killing people/babies isn't a rules violation?

Even I don't post stuff like that. Not that I haven't wanted to on occasion, but I haven't - unless I inadvertently missed something.

I said what I felt and I'll stand by it no matter the consequences.

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45 posted 07-09-2010 07:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Do you think posting something that contains profanity and advocates killing people/babies isn't a rules violation?

Ignorance is not always bliss. No one here advocated killing babies...someone the DOJ gave a pass to, did. SHould people be aware of it? Yes. Would your complaint be as adamant if it had been a thug with republican ties saying things like that? I find it unlikely. You may find it irritating that a person you have made excuses for is being exposed for what he really is but throwing allegations at Denise is a sad way to show it.

The video has been on national tv in prime time, assuredly while children were still up. The stations had no problem with that. Your complaint is subterfuge, nothing more. The man is a hate-mongering sleazebag...period.
JenniferMaxwell
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46 posted 07-09-2010 10:08 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You donít know me at all Balladeer, if you think Iíd give racism a pass under any circumstances.

Now letís clear up something, Iím not calling Denise a racist nor was I implying she advocated anything. What I said, or tried to say, was that posting video like that when it was unnecessary is fanning the flames of racism, and that the content of the video, just like the content of a poem or prose piece, again, in my opinion, violated site rules.  That issue has been sent to the mods/admins and they will decide on it. Iím sorry I didnít object sooner and Iím even sorrier that no one else has come forth to object. Does whatís aired on tv set the standard for whatís allowed here on the site? If it does, I sure didnít get the memo.

Shabazz is indeed, in my opinion, a racist and a hate monger, but more than that heís a  nobody. He had his day in court, the case is over. Why post his racist rants? What purpose does that serve?

ďIn this case, however, no citizen has even alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting at the Fairmount Avenue Polling Station in 2008. This absence of voter intimidation was clear to the Justice Department last spring, which is why they took the course of action that they did.Ē

It would be entirely possible to discuss Adamsí claims, the DOJ decision, etc. without posting the video. Whether shabazz is a hate mongering racist has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he attempted to keep voters from casting their ballot. That was what the lawsuit was about.


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47 posted 07-09-2010 10:16 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
I said what I felt and I'll stand by it no matter the consequences


You could have easily voiced your displeasure with the video, Jen, without pronouncing, mistakenly, that my intent in posting it was to fan racial hatred.

quote:
Do you really believe that video is appropriate for a G rated forum on a family site? Do you think posting something that contains profanity and advocates killing people/babies isn't a rules violation?


No, I didn't find it a rules violation. If I did I wouldn't have posted it. I view it as a slice of life. Sometimes life is ugly. There was no profanity that could be heard, and only one word that was bleeped out, with no way to discern what that word might have been, unlike here, in a written format, where one can decipher by rhyme or number of asterisks used in an attempted disguise. But I'll defer to the consensus of the moderators on that since you have chosen to lodge a complaint.

I do think, though, that his racist rant shown on that video relates directly to the charges against him of his attempted intimidation of WHITE voters. It shows the content of his character, and it shows the types of people that this administration deems worthy of its protection. In this case it wasn't the victims.
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48 posted 07-09-2010 11:03 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

What victims, Denise?

"In this case, however, no citizen has even alleged that he or she was intimidated from voting at the Fairmount Avenue Polling Station in 2008. This absence of voter intimidation was clear to the Justice Department last spring, which is why they took the course of action that they did."

How can you possibly go forward with a case of voter intimidation if there are no victims? Thatís like charging someone with robbery when nothing has been stolen. Itís bogus.
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49 posted 07-09-2010 11:29 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I would have felt intimidated - Jennifer
 
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