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I'm Not Surprised!

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Denise
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0 posted 07-03-2010 09:56 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

By Bill Kristol:

quote:
"They are overwhelmingly white and Anglo, although a scattering of Hispanics, Asian Americans and African Americans combine to make up almost one-fourth of their ranks."

This is from today's long (and on the whole not bad) USA Today article on the tea parties and tea partiers. But there's something a little odd about that term "scattering." That "scattering" is (as is suggested later in the same sentence) pretty hefty—23 percent of tea partiers are, according to the survey, non-white Anglos. How does this compare to the nation's adults as a whole? They're 25 percent non-white Anglos. So tea partiers are—in this as in other respects—a startlingly representative demographic group.

And I, for one, look forward to chatting and picnicking with fellow tea partiers at the Proud to be American July 4th Tea Party on Independence Mall in Philadelphia on Sunday.


http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/tea-parties-look-america


I couldn't agree more! and I get to meet him tomorrow too!  
Balladeer
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1 posted 07-03-2010 05:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The word "scatter" should surprise you, Denise. It's the first part of a hypenated words describing today's media
Denise
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2 posted 07-03-2010 05:11 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Aaahahahahahahahahaha...you're right, I should have thought of that!
Bob K
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3 posted 07-03-2010 07:37 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I was looking at some material on the subject here, and was pleased to find out that you're right about the demographics.  I was interested in the research, and was struck particularly by the odd article by the Al Jazeera blog site.  It made at least an attempt to deal with The Tea Party with some sort of decency and I was wondering what anybody there thought of the criticisms the writer raised.

     The blog responses were fairly left wing and I think that you would only be a bit upset by looking at them, but I thought the article itself seemed remarkable for what seemed at least an attempt to be straightforward.

     Thoughts?
JenniferMaxwell
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4 posted 07-03-2010 10:56 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"the odd article by the Al Jazeera blog site"

Checked the blogs and can't seem to find. Got a link? Thanks!
Bob K
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5 posted 07-04-2010 06:19 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Got so interested in running my mouth, I forgot to post the references.  


http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/15/the-life-of-the-tea-party.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html

http://www.conservativecabbie.com/2010/02/17/tea-party-demographics/

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/americas/2010/02/05/storm-over-tea-party


     The bunch of them are posted above.  Al comes last.  Always liked that name:  My grandfather was named Al.  Different last name, though.
JenniferMaxwell
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6 posted 07-04-2010 06:34 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Thanks Bob!

Quote from a blogger re the tea partiers:

"I understand all right. You said and did nothing when the republicans nearly destroyed our economy with their borrow and spend, no regulation/deregulation policies that took a budget in surplus to a $1.4 trillion deficit and added over $5 trillion in debt. All of a sudden in Jan. 2009 you act like deficit spending started with Obama and were instantly outraged. Obama received a $1.4 trillion projected deficit from the republicans, which is the one we're operating under this year. Obama didn't add anything of substance to what he inherited. The economy has improved under Obama, albeit gradually, from the disaster he was handed. These are easily checked facts. Not this Obama has already run up three times the debt that Bush did his entire presidency BS. When the teapartiers have to make stuff up, then you have to question their underlying morality. When they said and did nothing when Bush ran up trillions in debt, not to mention the mismanagement and incompetence of the entire administration, then you have to question their underlying motivation. When they say we didn't say anything because of the war on terror, which I hate to say is still ongoing to this day, you have to question their honesty. Why aren't they being quiet now because of the war on terror? It's about party before country. Tea partiers are just plain old republicans who are too embarrassed to admit they're republicans, but will ALWAYS vote republican no matter how bad the republicans mess things up. That's why I don't respect them and don't believe them when they say they want their country back. They had their country and the administration they voted for during the previous regime and totally messed it up. All we hear is excuses and blame on why nothing was their fault under their watch. Ain't buying it and anyone with half a brain isn't either."


Denise
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7 posted 07-04-2010 07:48 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Even left-wing bloggers are entitled to their opinions.
Balladeer
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8 posted 07-04-2010 10:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

YOUR FIRST LINK

The Gallup findings say that tea-party members are more like the rest of the country than one might expect. Of the 28 percent of U.S. adults who call themselves supporters of the tea-party movement, the survey surmised that they skew right politically, but demographically and ideologically they are generally representative of the mainstream public.

YOUR SECOND LINK

Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin  is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers. They actually are just as likely as Americans as a whole to have returned their census forms, though some conservative leaders have urged a boycott.

Tea Party supporters’ fierce animosity toward Washington, and the president in particular, is rooted in deep pessimism about the direction of the country and the conviction that the policies of the Obama administration are disproportionately directed at helping the poor rather than the middle class or the rich.

The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves. More than half say the policies of the administration favor the poor, and 25 percent think that the administration favors blacks over whites — compared with 11 percent of the general public.

YOUR  THIRD LINK

Is the tea-party a southern based movement? No not really. 31% of those polled who support the tea-party movement come from the south. That compares to 29% in the mid-west, 28% in the west and 13% in the northeast. Aside from the NE, that’s a very even spread.

Is the tea-party a predominantly white movement? Well yes, but not really any more so than the American electorate generally. 80% of those supportive are white compared to the 74% who voted at the last election who are white, a fairly even match to the American electorate. It’s true that only 2% of African-Americans support the tea-party movement, much less than their general representation amongst the population, but 10% of tea-party support comes from hispanics compared to 11% of the electorate.

Is tea-party support gained mainly from the elderly? No. And that’s quite emphatic. By far the largest group represented are 30-49 year olds at 40% whilst 18-29 year olds constitute 20% of tea-party support. In fact 18-29 year olds are over-represented in the tea-party movement, they only make up 18% of the electorate.

18-29 years old 20%
30-49 years old 40%
50-64 years old 29%
65 and older 12%

It’s time for the left to put aside their smears about the tea-partiers. What’s that quote they like to use of Daniel Patrick Moynihan?

    You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Unfortunately for the left, the facts as represented by this poll don’t tally with the liberal spin. The tea-partiers represent a normal cross-section of society except in two areas. They under-represent blacks (hardly surprising given the level of support amongst blacks for Obama) and they under represent urban communities being a movement of the suburbs and rural America.

ALJAZEERA


At the registration and welcoming address on Thursday night, it was hard to ignore the one-sided demographic of the attendees.  There's virtually no one under the age of 45 and almost no African-American or minority group represented.  This is very much a white, middle-aged gathering.  And there's a lot of anger in the room too.


The links, Bob, seem to support the demigraphics of the Tea Party as being that of the country in general, all except for Aljazeera, who loves to transmit audio tapes of Bin Laden to his supporters. So you want to go with them, and ignore the American news agencies? Well, you DID have a grandfather named Al....guess that counts for something.
Grinch
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9 posted 07-04-2010 10:59 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

What's Gallup’s definition of ‘Tea Party supporter’?

Is it an active member of the Tea Party movement or someone that has answered a few questions that broadly reflect the ideals of the Tea Party movement?

Bob,

Do you want lower taxes?
Less interference by ‘big government’?
Less waste in government departments?
Tighter controls on spending?
Free beer and ice-cream?

Did you know that the AFM party does and is actively working to get those things implemented; do you support them in their effort Bob?

(this was a Grinch survey carried out on behalf of the AFM party (All For Me) and has an accuracy level of +/- 100%)

.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (07-04-2010 11:56 AM).]

Denise
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10 posted 07-10-2010 12:19 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hardly the AFM Party.

quote:
We come in the Spirit of Martin, of Ghandi, of Jesus- Jeremy Hoop

Full Lyrics Here: http://jeremyhoop.bandcamp.com/track/rise-up-2

Video Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zntBAkzGaM

My people and I'm proud of 'em!

I'll never forget that day in DC on Sept. 12, 2009. I was one of those little dots, of about 1 1/2 million that day, that you can see on the video beginning at the 3:13 marker.

This was the first, but certainly won't be the last.
Grinch
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11 posted 07-10-2010 01:42 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

The AFM held a rally at my local pub Denise, 5 people attended but we rounded the figure up to 2 million for the press release – I heard Fox rounded that up to 1.9 gazillion, which, I think you’ll agree, is a heck of a lot of supporters.

1.9 gazillion people can’t be wrong.

What do we want?

Free beer and ice-cream.

When do  we want it?

Next Friday or Saturday would be nice.


Denise
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12 posted 07-10-2010 04:42 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I've never tried that combination, beer and ice cream, free or otherwise. Do you mix it together like a rootbeer float? It doesn't sound very appetizing, but to each his own.

But free...such an interesting concept...would the ingredients magically appear from the grain and dairy faeries or be sent down from the Creator like manna from heaven? That one might tend to be a bit messy though, so it's most likely the faeries!

Given time I'm sure you guys will increase in number, especially if that free milk and honey, oops, I mean beer and ice cream, doesn't start flowing from those incorrigible sprites!  And if you chaps decide to leave the pub and march on the grain and dairy gnomes, it might be a good idea to have a 'people meter' counter installed enroute to the Land of Hops and Moos on the outside chance that the grain and dairy owned media imps attempt to deflate you. I wouldn't trust those rascals for two swishes of a cow's tail!

quote:
That’s a pretty wide range. To summarize:

Rumored number:   2 million
“People meter” count:   1.5 million
Eight “Pennsylvania Avenues” full of people:   800 thousand
Grant Memorial area by Park Service method:   250 thousand
Legacy media reports:  70 thousand

Average all of those and we get 900,000 plus (924,000). Throw out the outliers, we get 850,000. And remember that the 1.5 million was a real count; it’s inherently a more believable number. Our estimate should be “pulled” upward by that.

Conclusion: probably well more than 850,000 in the crowd.

Which is a lot of people.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/how-big-was-the-crowd/?singlepage=true

Bob K
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13 posted 07-10-2010 04:48 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Mike, you seem bothered when I post facts that don't fit with my avowedly Liberal positions.

     Part of being a liberal is having a loyalty to the facts, not to the positions; and trying to learn from the facts.

     I posted the facts because that's what they were, and I didn't have to like them.  I may keep looking for a different way of looking at them or for ways in which these facts may not be accurate, but for now, this is what the facts say.  

     When they say things things I like better, I post those, too.

     If you checked my references more often, you might see things like this more often.
Bob K
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14 posted 07-10-2010 04:50 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Free beer and Ice-cream NOW!

     I like your party, Grinch!

     Can I join?
Grinch
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15 posted 07-10-2010 05:46 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


You can’t have a party without beer and ice-cream Denise – beer for the up grown and ice-cream for the munchkids.



Bob,

Sure you can join - go to weareasubsidiaryofbritishpetroleum.com - the subscription fee is $99.99 unless you’re Sarah Palin in which case we’ll pay you to turn up at one of our rallies to waffle on about stuff you don’t understand.



Bob K
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16 posted 07-11-2010 03:28 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Great Britain is behind the United States in many things ice cream.  When Elaine and I first went to London on our honeymoon, it was during what the Londoners called "a heat Wave."  That meant 75 farenheit.  We wanted ice cream.  We located an ice cream truck outside Westminister Abbey and each of us ordered a cone, which we promptly spat out.  Inquiring about the flavor, we were told that it was "Regular."

     I was very happy they didn't give us "Short."

     Things have gotten much better since.  The faux Lowland Haagan Das has hit your shores, but I suspect you've not yet had the ice-cream soda.  Or the Root Beer Float.  The Root Beer Float is a scoop or two of ice cream floating in a frosty mug of Root Beer, which is non-alcoholic and very sweet, in case you're not familiar.

     When you mentioned beer for the adults and ice cream for the kiddies, I was shocked.  Thoughts of a Guiness-Float has passed through my fevered brain.  I was probably in the grips of a depravity I should never have even confided, but —  as they say — Bob's your Uncle, and there it is.
Denise
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17 posted 07-17-2010 07:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The Heart and Soul of the Tea Party Movement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4bhGEtm4-U&feature=player_embedded
Grinch
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18 posted 07-17-2010 07:40 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


What's Gallup’s definition of ‘Tea Party supporter’ Denise?

Is it an active member of the Tea Party movement or someone that has answered a few questions that broadly reflect the ideals of the Tea Party movement?

.
Denise
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19 posted 07-17-2010 07:48 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

There is no 'official' membership, Grinch. So I guess you could include everyone who supports the principles and values that they advocate.

Grinch
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20 posted 07-17-2010 08:27 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


So they simply asked a bunch of people general questions like “do you want lower taxes” and because they sort of match the vague principles and values put forward by the Tea Party anyone who answers yes is defined as a Tea Party supporter?

No wonder they got results that mirrored national demographic figures – they weren’t questioning Tea Party supporters they were questioning a cross section of Americans.

Free beer and ice cream anyone?

Denise
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21 posted 07-17-2010 09:36 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't know what the questions were that were asked or how they were framed. Were you able to find the link to that the poll for me yet? I couldn't find it in the article.
Denise
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22 posted 07-17-2010 10:25 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think this may be the one:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx
Grinch
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23 posted 07-18-2010 08:00 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I don't know what the questions were that were asked or how they were framed.


Wow!

That’s a heck of an admission there Denise. What you’re saying is that you’ve absolutely no idea whether the poll suggests that Tea Party supporters follow the same demographic trends as the rest of the country. You simply read an article that seemed to back up your claim and then you tried to palm it off on us as if it was actual evidence without verifying the information.

That might work at an afternoon Tea Party Denise but we’re a slightly more sceptical bunch in the Alley.



That’s not the part that disappoints me the most though. The bit I really can’t understand is that I’ve mentioned a few times that the claim in the article is flawed, that it wasn’t a poll of Tea Party supporters but a mis-definition based on vague similarities of core values, and yet you still insist that it’s evidence to back up your claims.

It ain’t.

.
Denise
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24 posted 07-18-2010 08:38 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I presented the article and mentioned I wasn't surprised by the results of the poll. I didn't make claims first and then latch onto something that backed me up.

The poll is at the link I finally found after searching through several pages of google junk, when I concluded that you weren't going to share with me the one you were citing after a couple of requests.

The poll speaks for itself. It isn't a mis-definition of anything: Tea Party Supporters/Tea Party Opposers/Tea Party Neutral.
 
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