How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 McChrystal replaced as Head of US Comman
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

McChrystal replaced as Head of US Command in Afghanistan

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


0 posted 06-23-2010 01:48 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

General David Petraeus is replacing McChrystal.  It was done with due respect to General McChrystal, as he has been an admirable general in his service.  Those bars on their jackets - each little square represents 6 months of service, so McChrystal served his country well. Who knows why he did what he did?  

Here is the Rolling Stone article that lead to his dismissal.

The Runaway General

New Head of US Command in Afghanistan General David Petraeus

However, it is a good move on the part of Obama, and the only move that could have been done in my own opinion.
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


1 posted 06-23-2010 03:52 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Petraus faints and McChrystal goes rogue, maybe they’ve both been in the hot seat a little too long. The pressure must be incredible.

Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


2 posted 06-23-2010 04:29 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

No kidding Jennifer.  Obama's hair has sure gone from black to the usual color of stress and worry.  I sure wouldn't want to be in his shoes, with all the crap he takes.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


3 posted 06-23-2010 06:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, the stress of battle-tested generals taking orders from a community organizer who doesn't know what he's doing must be stressful, indeed.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


4 posted 06-23-2010 06:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


McChrystal was already in trouble with his
own men on the ground.  


.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


5 posted 06-23-2010 07:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I don't disagree with the firing...what is disconcerting is why he (the general) did it.
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


6 posted 06-23-2010 09:12 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I read the full report in Rolling Stone as shown on line:

quote:
McChrystal is a snake-eating rebel, a "Jedi" commander, as Newsweek called him. He didn't care when his teenage son came home with blue hair and a mohawk. He speaks his mind with a candor rare for a high-ranking official. He asks for opinions, and seems genuinely interested in the response. He gets briefings on his iPod and listens to books on tape. He carries a custom-made set of nunchucks in his convoy engraved with his name and four stars, and his itinerary often bears a fresh quote from Bruce Lee. ("There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.")



~*~

quote:
In March, McChrystal traveled to Combat Outpost JFM – a small encampment on the outskirts of Kandahar – to confront such accusations from the troops directly. It was a typically bold move by the general. Only two days earlier, he had received an e-mail from Israel Arroyo, a 25-year-old staff sergeant who asked McChrystal to go on a mission with his unit. "I am writing because it was said you don't care about the troops and have made it harder to defend ourselves," Arroyo wrote.

Within hours, McChrystal responded personally: "I'm saddened by the accusation that I don't care about soldiers, as it is something I suspect any soldier takes both personally and professionally – at least I do. But I know perceptions depend upon your perspective at the time, and I respect that every soldier's view is his own." Then he showed up at Arroyo's outpost and went on a foot patrol with the troops – not some bullshit photo-op stroll through a market, but a real live operation in a dangerous war zone.


~*~

quote:
The rules handed out here are not what McChrystal intended – they've been distorted as they passed through the chain of command – but knowing that does nothing to lessen the anger of troops on the ground. "[Expletive], when I came over here and heard that McChrystal was in charge, I thought we would get our "(Expletive) gun on," says Hicks, who has served three tours of combat. "I get COIN. I get all that. McChrystal comes here, explains it, it makes sense. But then he goes away on his bird, and by the time his directives get passed down to us through Big Army, they're all "(Expletive) up – either because somebody is trying to cover their ass, or because they just don't understand it themselves. But we're "(Expletive) losing this thing."


~*~

Even a patriot in uniform is dismissed by the current President, who was doing what was touted at the beginning of his reign:  
quote:
When Barack Obama entered the Oval Office, he immediately set out to deliver on his most important campaign promise on foreign policy: to refocus the war in Afghanistan on what led us to invade in the first place. "I want the American people to understand," he announced in March 2009. "We have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan." He ordered another 21,000 troops to Kabul, the largest increase since the war began in 2001.


[Accentuations/bold face/italics added]

Sorry, folks…this was a blunder by directive on the coattails of President Obama’s own dictatorial of what he wanted to have done, and a good man was put in there to do it. One that even voted for him. Snake eating rebel? By George, I hope so!

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


7 posted 06-24-2010 03:35 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Keith Obermann suggested that McChrystal be retained as general in command in Afghanistan on his show on Tuesday, 6/22/10.  He made a decent case for it, I thought.  I hadn't known at the time about McChrystal's previous encounters about similar issues with the President.

quote:
  Mike suggests:
Yes, the stress of battle-tested generals taking orders from a community organizer who doesn't know what he's doing must be stressful, indeed.



     In this country, generals are supposed to take orders from elected officials.  My understanding is that there was no disagreement on policy between President Obama and General McChrystal, nor between President Obama and General Petraeus, for that matter.  They are all supportive of counterinsurgency as the appropriate method for dealing with the situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

     The problem was that while General McChrystal gave lip-service to the cooperation necessary for counterinsurgency, he was — if the reports in the Rolling Stone article are true — undercutting that cooperation by bad-mouthing the people whom he needed to help put those policies into effect.  Those people included the Vice-President and Mr. Holbrook.

     The uniform Code of Military Justice encourages military personnel to be respectful and to show proper subordination.  General McChrystal might well have been court-martialed for his comments about the Vice-President alone, and he is fortunate that he was allowed to tender his resignation rather than go through that humiliation.

     More importantly, the General's remarks undercut the strategy itself.  If you believe in what the country is doing in Afghanistan and the middle east in general, then you might take a more serious view of the general's actions than the somewhat flip and dismissive one that Mike suggests in the quotation I offer above.  Especially since that strategy is essentially the same as the one set out by the Republicans during the previous two administrations, though perhaps taken more seriously.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


8 posted 06-24-2010 11:03 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

I don't see how General McChrystal could
not have known there would be consequences.
He wasn't talking to Reader's Digest.



.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


9 posted 06-24-2010 07:38 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     He'd spoken out of turn before and hadn't been fired.

     Do you think that might have had something to do with it?

     as in the " Anything not forbidden is encouraged" principle?  A guy can start to feel more important than he is sometimes, that way.

     What do you think, though, John?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


10 posted 06-25-2010 11:30 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't see how a magazine article outweighs the good things he has done for the country.  He has done those good things, only to end up being judged by a magazine article instead?   To me it seems a sorry overreaction.   It would be different if he hadn't proved himself and was just beginning, for which one didn't know anything else about him, but people do know much more, therefore how should a magazine article get to have more determination than much more important things we know about him?
  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


11 posted 06-25-2010 03:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“Gen David Petraeus, the new US commander in Afghanistan, is to review the controversial doctrine of “courageous restraint”, according to Pentagon sources.
He is to re-examine the rules which some soldiers believe have prevented them from defending themselves.
“There will be no change in overall policy but all aspects of tactics and implementation will be looked at afresh,” a Pentagon official told The Daily Telegraph. “The issue of ‘courageous restraint’ is a controversial one on the ground and there may be ways it can be modified.””

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/230283/great-news-petraeus-rev iew-courageous-restraint-afghanistan


A step in the right direction. . .


.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


12 posted 06-25-2010 04:58 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
A step in the right direction. . .


It’ll certainly be interesting.

If he instigates a more aggressive stance from USFOR-A, which is diametrically opposed to the ISAF hearts and minds tactic, then I’ve a sneaky suspicion that the US will be all on their lonesome in pretty short order. Most of the countries are looking for a good reason to pull out – this may just be the excuse they were looking for.

It can’t happen too quickly in my view.

.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


13 posted 06-25-2010 06:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"then I’ve a sneaky suspicion that the US will be all on their lonesome in pretty short order."


Obama pretty much assured that with his
July 2011 schedule. Enemy attacks are going to ramp
up to make it look like a retreat.

.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


14 posted 06-25-2010 11:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's interesting that, when Bush put Petraeus in charge of Iraq, he was called General Betrayus by our left-wingers. When Obama puts him in charge of Afghanistan, it's a "brilliant" move.
Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


15 posted 06-26-2010 12:05 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I am thinking there is a motive for putting him there actually.  Not only did Obama have to act fast on this one because he has appeared not to react too fast for some, but politically, whomever orchestrated this choice had an agenda, and a good one.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


16 posted 06-26-2010 12:11 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

They always have an agenda, Mysteria.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


17 posted 06-26-2010 04:13 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Most everybody has an agenda most all the time, and sometimes more than one at the same time, conflicting.  Like brains, for example; brains have multiple agendas.  They want to have enough information to make decisions, and they want to be able to make decisions without being overwhelmed with more information than they can handle.  These are agendas in conflict.

     I want to have a discussion about Afghanistan, Counterinsurgency, McChrystal, Petraeus and Obama, but that means that I need to go beyond trying to make quick points off of anybody else.  Can I do that here without getting bogged down in a score-keeping attempt at making points?  Or will the discussion be limited to just that sort of thing?

     Again, conflicting agendas.

     I don't think McChrystal was doing a terrible job running the war, so far as I know.  He did seem to have trouble with subordination and cooperation with non-military resources, not simply his Commander and Chief, but the folks who were trying to work out the diplomatic side of things and the (whatever nation-building may be) Nation Building side of things and the Cultural side of things.  Would he have been able to stretch to deal with that stuff well?  Honest, I don't know; he seemed busy cutting his own throat much of the time, so he's made it difficult for us to be able to find out.

     Is the President Obama's fault?

     Possibly, though he seems to be doing at least as well with the military as President Bush did.  It's still possible that President Obama didn't work it correctly.  My thinking is that President Obama left him in about as long as he possibly could have, but perhaps others have a rational disagreement with me about that.

     Heck, I'd rather not be over there at all, and I'd need some understanding to be clear about why we're there right now anyway.

     But given that we have no goals in the area that I can tick off on my fingers, counterinsurgency seems a good way to go, and Petraeus is apparently the guy who wrote the book on it, 21st century version.

     What do other folks think our goals are over there now in foreign policy and military terms?
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> McChrystal replaced as Head of US Comman Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors