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Passions in Poetry

While We Suffer

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Essorant
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25 posted 06-09-2010 11:58 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
This has the makings to be the greatest ongoing concert series ever to be seen on this Earth just to entertain one man … all paid for by the American taxpayer



So another article that was a big lie?

Can't people do a little research and confirm an issue before they post in the spirit of treating it as substantial or true?  

Denise
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26 posted 06-09-2010 04:23 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Not necessarily, Ess. We don't know how many of these 27 concerts were actually "In Performance at the White House" affairs underwritten by corporate sponsors, or even how much of those costs, when they are, are underwritten by the corporations. I haven't been able to find a breakdown of how much is paid by the corporations for these things and how much by the taxpayers, I would assume the corporations pay for the expenses of the entertainment personality and maybe their entourage. I doubt they pay for the food, drinks, security, etc.
serenity blaze
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27 posted 06-09-2010 06:29 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Oh Jenn...this is one of those times that I hate the distance between our screens.

I wish I could "beam" you here, somehow. My neighbors are generous with their pool, and I can't say for sure how things are elsewhere, but here? There are musicians in every other house, our people know how to cook, and I do mean COOK. Our jokes are tired at times, but the improv makes up for that. I do wish you were here.

Sure it's hot, but a few shots of cuervo (especially for you, since I'm not allowed) and some cannonball off the deck?

I've said it many times, but we really are a bunch of hobbits.

Ths culture cannot, will not die. And to my lovely friend, Denise--I know it's just a mind game of comparisons I play to make me feel better, but honestly, on the whole, I'd rather not be in Africa--where decades of genocide are so commonplace that it does not even make the evening news...

I do love my country and the legacy I have inherited. I do not love certain moments, though. *peace*peace*peace*

please

JenniferMaxwell
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28 posted 06-09-2010 10:34 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Sounds like a plan, Karen, thanks!
Me too, very grateful to live in this wonderful country no matter who’s sleeping in the White House.

Denise
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29 posted 06-09-2010 10:54 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I hope the country that we love does survive, Karen, I truly hope you are right. To see that it does we have to be vigilint to protect it from folks who want to 'level the playing field', so to speak, by redistributing our wealth, not only here, but globally. The standard of living of the third world countries won't rise to match ours in this scheme; ours will decrease to match theirs. And nobody wins but the power brokers and elites (those in government and 'private industry') of the world. We will become just another third world country and if that happens we may just as well be in Africa.

*liberty* *prosperity* *peace*

I don't worry about who's sleeping in the White House, Jen. I worry about those times when he isn't sleeping!  


*spelling and grammar used to be my strong suit*

[This message has been edited by Denise (06-10-2010 08:36 PM).]

Bob K
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30 posted 06-10-2010 08:22 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


quote:

Not necessarily, Ess. We don't know how many of these 27 concerts were actually "In Performance at the White House" affairs underwritten by corporate sponsors, or even how much of those costs, when they are, are underwritten by the corporations. I haven't been able to find a breakdown of how much is paid by the corporations for these things and how much by the taxpayers, I would assume the corporations pay for the expenses of the entertainment personality and maybe their entourage. I doubt they pay for the food, drinks, security, etc.



     I know it's not as exciting in the original posting to say all these things, Denise.  And I suspect that when you did the original posting, you hadn't actually thought about this sort of stuff and were probably too upset about the statements and claims in the original article to be much concerned about them.

    The people who published the original article should have covered those bases in the original article for you.  You were left hanging in the wind by people who were interested in a good lead and a good headline and not with the reality to back that sort of stuff up.

     Some of your assumptions may be absolutely true.  The fact that I don't happen to think so merely makes me a Democrat and doesn't make me right.  I admit that.  But your sources are treating you badly because they aren't giving you the extra details that you need about stuff like this, and that's unfair to you.  They have you repeating allegations that they haven't shown you evidence to back up.

     Even if the Bushes paid for the cost of their own family  food , and it's a great story and may even be true, do your really think that makes much of a difference?  The First Lady, should she be foolish enough to go out shopping for that food herself, would risk the lives of several Presidential Protection agents from the Secret Service without a lot of justification other than saving a few hundred back a week.  Do you really think that's worth it?  The possibility that she may be assassinated or others may die protecting her so she can buy groceries for the family?  And do you really think that the food that's bought for the White house all comes from one particular store on a predictable schedule?  

     I don't think so.  I think they probably have to buy a great deal of many varieties of food  for safety, in case somebody was trying to poison one or more members of that family, so that several different versions of several different meals would have to be prepared, simply for safety.  Again, the secret service would have to vet the vendors and potential vendors and the cooks.

     Do you understand the cost and the risks involved in the security alone?  We're not simply talking about the cost of five or six meals here;  the first family couldn't even begin to cover the cost, given the security and safety questions involved.  If there's company, the whole things complicates itself astronomically.
JenniferMaxwell
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31 posted 06-10-2010 10:30 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Right-wing blogosphere, where tabloids serve as credible news sources"


“This is what it has come to. The right-wing is so desperate to attack Obama that they'll actually resort to citing tabloids as credible research.”
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201006080004

....................................

“President Barack Obama has blown $10 million on drunken White House parties”
http://www.globemagazine.com/story/454
http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/0608-globecover.jpg


Denise
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32 posted 06-10-2010 08:31 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Facts can come from the most unusual sources, even tabloids. A good example of that would be the National Enquirer, which broke the story of John Edwards affair and love child.

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that the Obama White House has held 27 concerts in 17 months. What is fuzzy is what the breakdown of the costs are, what is underwritten by corporations and what comes out of the taxpayers' pocket (and yes, Bob, the annual entertainment allowance afforded Obama by Congress does come out of the taxpayers' pocket).

If the White House refuses to release details then it will remain an unknown. But any expenditure that isn't necessary in this economic climate is wasteful, and I believe that a bit of restraint should be shown out of respect for all those 'regular folks' who are suffering. Maybe cut it down to one party a month, or one party every other month, that's all. And maybe the entertainment budget would then have a surplus which could be used to reduce the deficit. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

JenniferMaxwell
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33 posted 06-10-2010 08:56 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that the Obama White House has held 27 concerts in 17 months."

If I do can you list them?

Working on trying to figure out how to send you those 47 copy and paste pages of the discussion draft, Denise.
Bob K
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34 posted 06-11-2010 05:01 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Not really, Denise.

     If you want to cut the deficit, cut the tax cuts to the wealthy, which actually loose the government and the treasury money.  Not the entertainment budget, which is approved by congress for a purpose.  

     If you don't like that, then you might try writing some of your representatives and ask why they have voted for the budget that includes this money, not only during this administration, but, say, during the period of the first Bush recession, or the Reagan recession and stagflation period or at other periods of time when the economy was either up or down.

     I suspect the amount is small compared to the tax cuts for billionaires.  You are right that the congress votes taxpayer moneys for entertainment, but you haven't said how much is spent, nor have you said how much is spent from private sources, so your insinuations of profligacy are themselves profligate and based on lack of knowledge.  Near as I can tell, your source thus far has been information I've supplied saying that congress budgeted money for entertainment.  You haven't really done any research at all in support of your claim; or if you have, you have yet to offer it with any attributions.

     After all, I'm reasonably clear what I said.  And according to your rules, you're the one who should be supporting your assertion with facts.  I'm willing to believe there may be some, I'm simply curious about what they may be.  
Denise
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35 posted 06-11-2010 04:14 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I can't know how much is spent, Bob, if the White House won't release that information.
Bob K
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36 posted 06-11-2010 05:43 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     You would certainly have the information to write about that, then, wouldn't you?  Think of how much was written about the information V.P. Cheney didn't re;lease about his energy policy conference at the beginning of the first Bush administration to good effect.  The more Cheney kept quiet, the worse he looked.  Even today.

     You can write about how quiet today's White house is being about entertainment expenditures with perfect justification, so long as you keep your focus on that story, about which you do have information, and which makes the President look hinky.  You have a right to do that (as you do about this story, as well, but without facts here, your point doesn't seem as solid) and you have information about that on an ongoing basis.  It's a solid hook into a real story, that accomplishes much the same as the one that piqued your interest in the first place.

     Except this is probably where he's a bit weaker.

     I don't know for sure.  It might be worth thinking about, anyway.  Unless there are other places where you could get information about what money the president spends on entertainment and how it comes in.  Would there be some sort of tax trail on the part of the people making donations.  Would this show up on the President's tax return.  What does he have to declare?

     I guess it depends on how interested you are in following up on the facts of this sort of thing to see what the facts really are?  Depending on how you're put together, it could be a fascinating puzzle or it could be a terrible bore.
Denise
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37 posted 06-12-2010 11:37 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I do have a full time job, Bob. My time is limited.
Bob K
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38 posted 06-12-2010 09:01 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Terrible bore it is, then, Denise.

     Nobody said anything about time deadlines, you know, only about relative importance to you.
Denise
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39 posted 06-12-2010 09:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Not at all, Bob. If I had that kind of time to get involved in that level of investigation, with not even having a clue on how to go about obtaining some of the information needed like tax record trails, etc., I might add, I'd jump in with both feet. But what would be the point in the end? To find out the extent to which taxpayer money is being wasted? It's enough for me to know that any of it is being wasted at all.
JenniferMaxwell
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40 posted 06-12-2010 10:14 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You mentioned “Obama White House has held 27 concerts in 17 months” several times, Denise so you must have that information. Could I have that list please? Thanks!
Denise
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41 posted 06-12-2010 10:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It came from the article I shared earlier, Jen. I don't have a list.
JenniferMaxwell
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42 posted 06-12-2010 11:01 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

That’s ok, Denise, not a problem, just that when I googled couldn’t come up with anything near 27. Which reminds me, has anyone read Ashbery's collection "Chinese Whispers"? Reviews are rather mixed, not sure if I should buy to keep or just pick it up from the library.
Bob K
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43 posted 06-13-2010 08:18 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     No, I'm not up to date on Ashbery, I'm sorry to say.  I'm reading The Mitchell translation of Rilke right now, and enjoying it.  It makes me wish I actually had some German beyond the barest of bare essentials, or a little less.
Bob K
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44 posted 06-13-2010 08:28 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Your assumption that taxpayer money is being wasted is not proven, Denise.  Your animus toward the man is.  If you want the luxury of having proved something, the best course is to prove it and not simply insinuate it.  If you don't wish to put the time and effort in to prove your point, then asking other people to prove their points is hypocritical on your part, isn't it?  Blaming other people for your inability or unwillingness to prove your point  seems, by the standards that you've set here, to be less than what you require of others.

     This appears to be a difficulty in your position.

     I offered a possible way out of the contradiction, which is too much effort for you.

     What now?
Denise
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45 posted 06-13-2010 10:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What part of "I have a full time job" to attempt do in-depth investigative work, as you have suggested, which would probably consume every waking hour for the rest of my life and even then would not yield anything acceptable to you because each thing I did manage to uncover, you would want sourced ten different ways from Sunday. Life would be so much simpler, wouldn't it, if we actually had an open, honest and transparent administration?

There are enough other ways that this administration is wasting taxpayer money every day, even if the concert schedules for the past 17 months are nothing out of the ordinary, which I tend to doubt given the increased wasteful spending with the so-called stimulas, cash for clunkers, cash for appliances, the subsidising of the auto industry, sweetheart deals to unions, confiscation of our healthcare system, and the planned continuation of the confiscation and resdistribution of wealth since his election.

He hasn't done anything to earn my respect as a leader. But maybe I am overlooking something noteworthy that he has done for this country in the past year and a half that you could point me to. And his world-wide apology tour doesn't qualify.
serenity blaze
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46 posted 06-13-2010 10:30 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

This one's gonna get me in hot water, but hot water is good for whiplash--but what the man did to earn my respect was employing a tactic to combat terrorism which entailed...simple diplomacy.

I'm not real popular either, not here, not where I am sitting, but I think that being open to discussion when we are confronted with the enemy of a mindset of arrogance, intolerance and greed (because that IS how I believe we are perceived in foreign press) is just...why, it's wonderful.

It rather reminds me of a therapy session me and the hubs had long ago, where we realized while speaking through a third party, that we actually AGREED on goals.

I guess I won't get a lot of agreement, since I do believe that Al Quaida isn't a PLACE--it's a reaction of rebellion. And I do not believe that my belief makes me any less patriotic.

*wince*

Could one of you great fact-checkers confirm this idea for me? I like to think that our Constitution was written with a feather.

But yes, the ink was blood.

The poet in me likes the metaphor...
JenniferMaxwell
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47 posted 06-13-2010 10:32 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I'm easy, I'd be happy to see just a list of those 27 concerts. That really bugs me.
Denise
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48 posted 06-13-2010 10:44 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Email Barack or Michelle, Jen! Maybe they will give up the info to you! I checked out the White House site today as well. They don't even have a full listing there, and only a few photos that I could find from three events. And we know there much more than three. Very disappointing site to try to gain actual information, in my opinion.
Denise
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49 posted 06-13-2010 10:52 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

You're correct Karen, Al Quaida isn't a place. It's an ideology of oppression and hatred that seeks to deprive people of freedom and life, the exact opposite of the ideology that motivated our Founders.
 
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