How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the Worl   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 06-04-2010 10:51 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded


.


Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


1 posted 06-04-2010 01:12 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


In my view the UN should implement sanctions against Israel for this latest act of international state sponsored terrorism.

.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 06-04-2010 01:52 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://article.nationalreview.com/435513/israel-disarmed/charles-krauthammer


"If even a blockade, the most passive and benign of defenses, is impermissible, what defenses does Israel have left? . . .

The whole point of this relentless international campaign is to deprive Israel of any legitimate form of self-defense."

.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


3 posted 06-04-2010 02:14 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Self defence? Against what exactly, a ship full of humanitarian aid on its way to another country?

Israel perpetrated an unprovoked act of piracy and they’re likely to do the same when the Rachel Corrie attempts to break the illegal blockade early tomorrow morning.

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


4 posted 06-04-2010 02:40 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     The Arabs remembered their Sun Tsu, the Israelis did not. We are grumbling about the results.

     The Arabs chose the place, the time, the conditions of combat, the rules of engagement and were able to trap the Israelis into rigidity of response..

     The Arabs found it relatively simple to trap the Israelis into looking like the bad guys in a professional wrestling match..  I am not nor have I ever been a military man.  

     On the other hand, I have read Sun Tsu.

     I suspect it was the politicians in command in Israel, and not the soldiers, when it came time to talk about tactics and strategy.  Had the soldiers been running the operation, it might have been more likely that the nature of the mission might have been more clearly defined, as in "disable the boats," or, "Make the project look foolish'
instead of "create Islamic martyrs" or "Make Israeli look like a bully for trying to defend what it sees as a legitimate national interest."  

     It may actually be a legitimate national interest.

     The fact that Grinch sees this as otherwise says just how badlly Israel misplayed the situation, how well the Arabs played the situation or possibly both.

     Israel needs to learn a more fluid and less predictable set of responses if it wishes to ensure its long term survival.  A rigid response only lets an oponent know in advance where to place the next punch.  It yields advantage.

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


5 posted 06-04-2010 02:58 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Sorry, Grinch, but humanitarian aid to that area has a long history of containing arms.  It contained arms when The Brits controlled the area and American Jews and others were shipping in aid to refugees from CZs in Europe, and it's contained the same hard crunchy center from time to time when it's been shipped in to Arabs from Muslim countries in recent years.  Remember the shipment Mr. Arrafat had such diplomatic indigestion with a few years back when it came in from Cyprus?

     This shipment may have been all halal.  It would have been wiser that way.  Or it could have been a tripple bluff  of RDX and RPGs and Kalashnikovs mixed in with medicine and grains.  What it is most clearly is great propaganda and something of a replay of some of the Jewish tactics that led to the partition vote in 1948.

     Except the Jewish tactics tried to bring in more refugees..  If the Arabs tried to ship in Palestinian refugees in an attempt to exercise their "Right of Return" I hate to think of what might happen.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


6 posted 06-04-2010 03:02 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Oh, but weren’t the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian relief? No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel’s offer to bring their supplies to an Israeli port, be inspected for military materiél, and have the rest trucked by Israel into Gaza — as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine, and other humanitarian supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.

Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the blockade, i.e., ending Israel’s inspection regime, which would mean unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas."


http://article.nationalreview.com/435513/israel-disarmed/charles-krauthammer

.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


7 posted 06-04-2010 03:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Sorry, Grinch, but humanitarian aid to that area has a long history of containing arms.


My first thought is to say “so what”.

International law dictates that the control of the importation of small arms is the remit of the government, or occupying government, of the country into which the arms are being imported. My first thought however would be morally, if not technically, wrong.

The situation in Gaza is a slightly more complicated given that any arms imported into Gaza are likely to be used against Israeli citizens, under those circumstances it’s reasonable and understandable for Israel to want to verify the legality of the goods being imported, I don’t think any international body would believe otherwise.

Unfortunately though that’s not what Israel have been doing, instead they’ve imposed a blockade that closely resembles a medieval siege denying or allowing access based on political expediency rather than the legality of the goods being shipped. Did you know that the amount of goods of all kinds, food medicine etc. getting through to Gaza is 25% of the goods getting through pre 2007? A sobering fact even more significant when you learn that most of that gets there via Egypt rather than through the blockade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7545636.stm

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


8 posted 06-04-2010 08:04 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Yes, I did know that.  I find the situation to be morally repugnant from just about any angle you would care to examine it from, Pro Palestinian or Pro Israeli.  Each party is convinced they know the answer for the other, and that amounts to rolling over and dying.

     The question that I have for each of them is this: "If you were going to solve the problem in five years, what is it that about your own behavior that you would have to change?"  Any answers that include mention of the other party will be thrown out without consideration.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


9 posted 06-04-2010 10:49 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“Veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas has issued an apology after saying in an interview that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine.”
Thomas, a longtime White House correspondent who now writes a column for Hearst newspapers, made the comments May 27 after a White House Jewish heritage event.
Asked by Rabbi David Nesenoff of RabbiLive.com if she had “any comments on Israel,” Thomas replied, “Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.”
Thomas went on to say that the Palestinian people “are occupied and it’s their land” and that Israelis should “go home” -- to Poland, Germany, America “and everywhere else.”
In a written statement issued Friday, Thomas apologized, saying, “I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians.”
She said the comments “do not reflect” her “heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance.””



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/04/white-house-repo     rter-helen-thomas-apologizes-saying-jews-hell-palestine/


“She said the comments “do not reflect” her “heart-felt belief”

So we have lying ears as well as eyes.

So no one’s anti-Semitic anymore, they’re just pro-Palestinian, convenient. . .

Anyone think the Jews are going to go meekly
again into the ovens is out of their mind.

.

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


10 posted 06-04-2010 11:28 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

She said the comments do not reflect her heart-felt belief

In other words, "don't believe what I say".
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


11 posted 06-05-2010 03:02 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


No one outside of the Holocaust  believed Hitler . .


.
N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet
Member
since 07-30-2009
Posts 369
New Orleans


12 posted 06-05-2010 03:10 AM       View Profile for N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet   Email N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet

The Jews have had the worst time in history when it comes to religious hate.

So they wanted a tiny strip of land to call home and live peacefully, what happened?

Decades of war, and threats from Muslim leaders who wish to wipe them from the earth.

Least Palestine could do is open the borders for Jews to have pilgrimage during the holy days.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


13 posted 06-05-2010 07:12 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Anyone think the Jews are going to go meekly
again into the ovens is out of their mind.


Are Israel going to use that as a justification for every atrocity they perpetrate?

quote:
Anyone think the Jews are going to go meekly
again into the ovens is out of their mind.


And anyone who thinks they have a right to exterminate a nation and use that as an excuse is coo coo for coco pops.

.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


14 posted 06-05-2010 07:50 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Curse those Jews for their many atrocities and nation-conquering endeavors!!!

"If the Muslims lay down their weapons there will be peace. If Israel lays down their weapons, there will be no Israel."
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


15 posted 06-05-2010 08:33 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Curse those Jews for their many atrocities and nation-conquering endeavors!!!


That’s a racist statement Mike.

Not all Jews are perpetrating atrocities in the same way that not all Palestinians are firing rockets into Isreal, conflating the actions of a minority with the intentions of the majority is a sure fire recipe for disaster, as history has shown on many occasions.

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


16 posted 06-05-2010 04:16 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The problem — or one of the problems, to be more precise about it — is that there are plenty of atrocities to go around, and a paucity of people willing to take responsibility as perpetrators.  Pardon the alliteration.  It's always the other guy, and, if you're willing to follow the twisted skeins of logic back along the routes chosen, there's always some sort of reality to the explanation.  And the other side will be able to do the same thing.  There is no shortage of martyrs or villians in the eyes of the partisans of either side.

     I don't remember who said it, and I wish I did, but the most sensible thing I can recall anybody ever having said about the whole mess was that there were two civil wars going on at the same time, one between right and left wing Jews and the other between right and left wing Palestinians.  Every time peace threatened to break out on one side or the other, the more radical branch of that ethnicity would attack  somebody unoffensive on the other side of the ethnic divide, the Jews would invade Gaza or the Palestinians would lob some rockets into a wedding, and the whole conflict would reset back to zero, where everything was stable and where the radicals had a better shot of winning against their ethnic rivals, the moderates on their own side.

     There ought to be a chance for the two civil wars to resolve themselves before the winners sat down to work things out, if indeed that were possible.  I simply don't know whether it is any more.

     The whole thing is such a mess.  Yetch.  
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


17 posted 06-05-2010 07:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, it is a racist statement, grinch. it was a condensed version of your comment.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


18 posted 06-05-2010 08:09 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://video.foxnews.com/#/v/4228414/israel-fighting-pr-war-in-media/?playlist_id=87937


An interesting thing about this video...you won't see it on network news. What a surprise....
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


19 posted 06-05-2010 08:11 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Yes, it is a racist statement, grinch. it was a condensed version of your comment.


It’s nowhere near what I said Mike, and I resent the suggestion that it is, there’s nothing whatsoever  in anything I’ve posted that can be remotely construed as racist or anti-semitic. Yet for some strange reason you’ve decided to depict it as such. I can only presume that trying to attribute a racist remark to me is a feeble attempt to paint me as some sort of a racist.

If that’s what you think Mike I’d appreciate it if you simply came out with it instead of hiding behind manufactured insinuations – I’d like a chance to defend myself before being branded a racist.

.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


20 posted 06-05-2010 08:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

They were your words, grinch, and you are the one who called them racist.

against Israel for this latest act of international state sponsored terrorism. "latest" means there there are other instances of "state sponsored terrorism, one must assume.

Israel perpetrated an unprovoked act of piracy

for every atrocity they perpetrate
"every" meaning they must perpetuate other atrocities, one must assume.

anyone who thinks they have a right to exterminate a nation and use that as an excuse in response to Jews going meekly into the gas chambers. So they will use not going meekly as an excuse for their "atrocities" and "state sponsored terrorism" and some mythical nation extermination?

You are the one to speak of Jewish atrocities and state-sponsored terrorism and nation extermination. You are the one who called them racist when I repeated them. I simply agreed with you.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


21 posted 06-05-2010 09:52 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
They were your words, grinch, and you are the one who called them racist


No they weren’t Mike, that racist garbage you spouted had nothing to do with anything I posted, you simply decided to post a racist statement and attribute it to me. Not content with insinuating that I’m a racist you’ve now decided to try to justify, and presumably prove the depth of my racism, by giving a running commentary based entirely on your warped interpretation of what I was saying.

I strongly resent being accused of racism, especially in a public Internet forum where malicious accusations have a tendency to stick, therefore I’ve reported your post as a personal attack and until I hear the decision of the Moderators I’ll refrain from commenting further.

.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


22 posted 06-05-2010 10:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Do what you will, grinch. My "racist garbage" was your words repeated and acknowledged as racist by you. You claim there was no anti-semitism in your words but you refer to multiple state-sponsored acts of terrorism and acts of atrocities....all directed at Israel. You may try to double-talk your way out of it until the cows come home but they were your words, not mine and the label was applied by you, not me. You had no problem or no hesitation calling my comment racist but bristle at the fact that anything you said could be considered as such. Since my comment consisted of your words, that makes your outrage a little ludicrous.

a running commentary based entirely on your warped interpretation of what I was saying.

Actually, it was a running commentary of your exact words. If they were warped, then you are once again insulting yourself.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


23 posted 06-05-2010 11:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It has been discussed in the Moderator forum and the determination is that your comments were directed at Israel and it's government, not necessarily Jews as a race. Based on that, I apologize.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


24 posted 06-06-2010 03:37 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     Jews are not a race, Mike.

     Ethiopian Jews, for example, are Black, as was Sammy Davis, Junior.  Judaism is a religion.  One may become a convert to the religion, though, over the past thousand years or so, Jews have not on the whole encouraged conversion.  It is difficult to catagorize the notion of race accurately these days.  

     If you are to believe there is in fact an verifiable construct called race available, and there is some debate about that in the scientific community today, it would be unlikely that one would be able to apply the notion of conversion to it with any degree of comfort or reliability.
You might be able to convert from Catholic to Taoist, in other words, but it would be problematic to attempt a conversion from some form of Asiatic folk to, say, some sort of Black folk, especially by simply going through a ceremony.

     There are Jews who are Black, Chinese, and Caucasian and possibly other groups and sub-groups of which I am unaware.

     To confuse Judaism, the religion, with a race is inaccurate.  


 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the Worl   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors