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Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

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Balladeer
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50 posted 06-10-2010 08:22 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

At least 9 civilians were murdered

Do you feel they were murdered, Bob?

btw, did you bother watching the video where Reuters edited out the knife in the hand of one of the "innocent victims"?

Using comments like murdered and massacre make little sense here. Give your white horse some oats and put him to bed.

JenniferMaxwell
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51 posted 06-10-2010 10:08 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/06/06

“ But one thing is fast becoming clear - many of the dead were shot multiple times at point-blank range. One was a journalist taking photographs. "A man was shot ... between the eyebrows, which indicates that it was not an attack that took place from self-defence," Hassan Ghani, a passenger, said in an account posted on YouTube. "The soldier had time to set up the shot." Mattias Gardell, a Swedish activist, told the TT news bureau: "The Israelis committed premeditated murder ... Two people were killed by shots in the forehead, one was shot in the back of the head and one in the chest."



http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/06/09

"Nineteen-year-old U.S. citizen Furkan Dogan was shot once in the chest and four times in the head. Israel commandeered the six vessels and arrested the roughly 700 activists and journalists, hauled them to the Israeli port of Ashdod and kept them out of meaningful communication with family, press and lawyers for days. The Israeli government confiscated every recording and communication device it could find—devices containing almost all the recorded evidence of the raid—thus allowing the state to control what the world learned about the assault. The Israelis selected, edited and released footage they wanted the world to see."



http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/06/01-2

"The dead have joined Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall, James Miller and Brian Avery in giving up their lives for the Palestinians. None of these young men and women went out to die or wanted to die or was accepting of death. Each and every one of them ultimately believed that they were safe; that there was a boundary – call it a boundary of legality, a boundary of civilisation – that Israel would not cross. They were wrong. And in proving them wrong, Israel has revealed, once again, its true face to the world.

This face, of course, the Palestinians know well. They see it every day in the teenage soldiers of the occupation chewing gum as they dish out humiliations, in the settlers shooting young Palestinians with impunity, in the soldiers firing gas canisters at the heads of demonstrators. The world saw that face in January last year when Israel unleashed the might of its air force on Gaza – the only time in modern warfare that a civilian population was sealed in as it was being bombed and shelled. Now Israel is out on the high seas killing internationals.

So never mind the multimillion-dollar public relations campaign – actions speak louder than words, and the murder of these peace activists is Israel's message to the world. It does not matter what Mark Regev or any other Israel spokesperson says. It does not matter what spin the Israeli government tries to put on this; the only link between Israeli words and Israeli deeds is this: Israel uses words as a decoy and an obfuscation and a cover for its deeds. It has done so for 62 years. These internationals, dead now, murdered, have ensured that anyone who does not see this is wilfully blind."

JenniferMaxwell
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52 posted 06-10-2010 12:17 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

New Video Smuggled Out from Mavi Marmara of Israel’s Deadly Assault
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/10/exclusive_journalist_smuggles_out_video_of
Huan Yi
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53 posted 06-10-2010 05:23 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“In an interview with the New York Times, Dr. Hasan Huseyin Uysal, a Turkish doctor, said he treated Israeli commandos who were captured and briefly detained during initial stages of the raid on the ship challenging the blockade. And then the soldiers were given back to the Israeli commandos.”

Now that is funny!

.
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54 posted 06-10-2010 06:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Facts Beyond the Spin: Israel Delivers Massive Aid to Gaza
June 2, 2010 – 1:03 pm

Despite the fact that Israel publicly offered to inspect and then transfer the flotilla’s aid to Gaza several days prior to the incident, many opponents of Israel are now making wild accusations that humanitarian supplies are being blocked from entering Gaza.

The facts put these charges to rest – just take a look at how much aid Israel regularly delivers to Gaza, and what it means in real terms for Gazans:

    * Over one million tons of humanitarian supplies were delivered by Israel to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months – that’s equal to nearly one ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza.
      
    * In the first quarter of 2010 alone (January-March), Israel delivered 94,500 tons of supplies to Gaza. It’s very easy to miss what that actually means for the people of Gaza. The breakdown includes:
          o 40,000 tons of wheat – which is equal to 53 million loaves of bread;
          o 2,760 tons of rice – which equals 69 million servings;
          o 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear – the equivalent weight of 3.6 million pairs of jeans; and
          o 553 tons of milk powder and baby food – equivalent to over 3.1 million days of formula for an average six-month-old baby.

    * This reflects a long-term effort on the part of Israel to deliver a massive and comprehensive supply of aid to Gaza’s civilians, while restricting the ability of Hamas to import missiles that have been launched at the cities of southern Israel. In 2009 alone:
          o During the Muslim holy days of Ramadan and Eid al-Adha, Israel shipped some 11,000 head of cattle into Gaza – enough to provide 8.8 million meals of beef;
          o More than 3,000 tons of hypochlorite were delivered by Israel to Gaza for water purification purposes – that’s 60 billion gallons of purified water; and
          o Israel brought some 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicine into Gaza – a weight equivalent to over 360,000 260-piece mobile trauma first aid kits.

Read the full statistics and judge for yourself. Humanitarian crisis in Gaza? Not according to the facts.
http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/

Yes, actions DO speak louder than words....
Denise
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55 posted 06-10-2010 08:39 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes they do, Michael. Yes they do. Thank you for sharing these facts.
JenniferMaxwell
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56 posted 06-10-2010 08:43 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Turkish Doctor Describes Treating Israeli Commandos During Raid
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/turkish-doctor-describes-treating-israeli-commandos-during-raid/
Bob K
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57 posted 06-11-2010 04:36 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Do I feel that the 9 civilians were murdered?

     I don't know, Mike.

     If the incident is the same one that is spoken about in the articles about the three israeli Commandoes boarding in Turkish ship under a covering fire of plastic or rubber bullets which was later changed to read bullets, I would have to say yes, the nine civilians were murdered.  The boats could haver been disabled and towed into harbor if necessary.   A direct assault does not seem a necessary intervention.  It seems provocative.  It also seems that the Israelis were clearly outplayed by the Palestinians into overplaying a weak hand in front of cameras.  You've heard me say this before.

     The Israeli position is very macho and appealing in that way, but it is one that is ultimately one that will be defeated by somebody who understands Sun Tsu and the importance of forcing the enemy's hand, his tactics, his timing, and his ground so that all these break according to your needs.  I have made reference to this before.  I really suggest that you stop by a library and give the book a look or even buy your own copy.  It's very enlightening about this sort of thing.

     Even if it wasn't murder — and I think it was — it was a sound defeat for Israel, and that is what we are hearing right now.  The writhings of a wounded country that has been seriously pinked by a militarily inferior enemy.
Balladeer
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58 posted 06-11-2010 08:05 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What do you think about the amount of aid Israel has sent to Gaza, as listed above, Bob? Doesn't that seem a little strange to you that they continue to supply to populace of a country that they are supposedly trying to starve, according to the media? How many people were injured on the second ship that was boarded? Right, none, nor was there an incident. That ship was not loaded with radicals looking to create an international incident by attacking the Israelis that boarded.

Everyone claims Israel has no right to set up the blockade bit no one mentions the 6300 missiles Hamas has showered on Israel since 2005. Is it so unreasonable to think they want to limit weapons going into the hands of those cuddly Hamas humanitarians?

Who do they think they are.....JFK???
JenniferMaxwell
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59 posted 06-11-2010 08:53 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

43 Years After Surviving Israeli Attack on USS Liberty, US Veteran Joe Meadors Seized by Israeli Forces on Gaza Aid Flotilla
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/4/43_years_after_surviving_israeli_attack


"The ultimate lesson of the Liberty attack" was that it "had far more effect on policy in Israel than in America. Israel's leaders concluded that nothing they might do would offend the Americans to the point of reprisal. If America’s leaders did not have the courage to punish Israel for the blatant murder of American citizens, it seemed clear that their American friends would let them get away with almost anything." - George Ball


Huan Yi
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60 posted 06-11-2010 02:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.
“Oh, please. Just because the Israeli commandos weren't actually lynched doesn't mean that the perception on the Israeli military's part that their soldiers were in grave danger, wasn't there. I've seen the videos and now I see these photos. The commandos were treated to a pinata party with the "activists" holding the ropes and leading the descending soldiers into groups of pipe and knife wielding gangs. Then the commandos were "detained". I don't know what these "activists" expected to happen. These were soldiers and if I were an "activist" I would have peacefully made my way to the safe side of the boat and let the soldiers do what they came to do. Any rational person that valued their life would have done the same thing. I'm usually a huge fan of the New York times and feel like their reporting is most often balanced and fair, but not in the case of this story. The benefit of the doubt is constantly, in story after story, given to the "activists" while all the video and photographic evidence as well as plain old common sense seems to support the Israeli side of things. “

.

"The minute a commando's sidearm was grabbed by an activist and he and/or other commandos were taken below, the troops HAD TO act with deadly force. According to Israeli military doctrine, if a soldier is seen being taken hostage, other soldiers must do everything to foil the kidnapping - even if it means endangering the life of the captive soldier. The idea is that Israel cannot be put in a hostage situation. I know this because my military service in the IDF included such scenarios. There certainly was fault in the planning of this raid, but the activists, especially those from IHH, weren't naive: Martyrdom is good PR in the Muslim world, but an Israeli hostage is even better."

.

"Dr. Hasan Huseyin Uysal is an honorable man and is certainly bound by the Hippocratic oath. But his explanations about a cut in the stomach resulting from “landing on a sharp pole from the helicopter or a blow from a pipe with a sharp edge” are frankly hilarious. A video in You Tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzOWKxN2co) shows a peace activist stabbing an Israeli soldier several times. Further, Dr Uysal never noticed that the peace activist standing at his side while he mercifully cared for a badly beaten soldier was holding a knife, not a sharp-edged pipe, as shown in the Hurriyet´s pictures (but not in doctored Reuters´s ones). Maybe a visit to an eye doctor could help the good eye doctor see things more clearly.
By the way, having worked in an emergency room for nearly twenty years, I would never be half as sure as Dr. Uysal that an abdominal penetrating wound was not a life threatening emergency without a full battery of exams."

.

"Surprisingly the doctor's account supports the IDF's version of events. I quote:
"First of all it’s against logic that these soldiers would not be killed but instead be taken to the medical center if the intention of the activists was to kill them. If people on board were so eager to hurt them, why would they not just shoot them to death once they had taken their guns?"

Excuse me doctor, but let me get it straight: You're saying that if the IDF's version was true, then the soldiers would have shoot the "activists" to defend themselves? Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there 9 "activists" dead? If so, then according to your logic (which is sound by the way) the activists tried to snatch the seals' weapons and so they fired back killing 9 of their assailants."

.


As we know from numerous protests in the US in the '60s, and anywhere else, in the overwhelming majority of cases, protesters run away from armed men, from smoke bombs, and from the sound of gunfire.

As we see by what happened on the other five of the six ships in the flotilla.

On the Mavi Marmara, at 4 in the morning, about a hundred men -- fully dressed! -- run _toward_ the armed men? And some have the instant idea to tie the rope from the helicopter to a ship's mast? And are able to do that effectively?

And some are quick enough and focused enough to grab a commando's sidearm? Would you try that with a NYC cop?

And are able simply to fire it? How many people here reading this know how to fire a pistol?

And you want people to believe this fracas was not planned, the activists rehearsed, and the whole bloody, intentional media event staged?


.

"I'm surprised at the lack of anti-Israel comments to this article. Lately there seems to have been an increase in anti-Israeli and anti-semitic sentiment in the news from Elvis Costello to the recent flotilla that it has become increasingly disturbing to me, a Jewish, Liberal, female from New York City.
It's heartening that many readers of this article are not seeing Israel just as an oppressor nation of fascists."




http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/turkish-doctor-describ        es-treating-israeli-commandos-during-raid/

.


Seems some still sniff before drinking the kool-aid. . .

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (06-11-2010 03:12 PM).]

Bob K
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61 posted 06-11-2010 07:01 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:


Everyone claims Israel has no right to set up the blockade bit no one mentions the 6300 missiles Hamas has showered on Israel since 2005. Is it so unreasonable to think they want to limit weapons going into the hands of those cuddly Hamas humanitarians?



     Where did you see me say that Israel didn't have a right to blockade Gaza?  Show me that place.

     Israel has the right to do its best to make sure that no missiles fall on Israel, and if that includes a blockade, then that includes a blockade.  I did not mention the number of missiles because I 1) didn't know the number of missiles fired by Hamas; 2) wouldn't know how to distinguish a missile fired by Hamas from a missile fired by anybody else; 3) think that missiles are a measure of how badly the fraternal relationship is going, and as such it leaves out the other half of the equation.

     I don't bother to equate Hamas as being cuddly humanitarians any more than I would equate the Likud with being Cuddly Humanitarians.  Both have a solid humanitarian side when it serves them, both are very charitable when it comes to activities that bring political gains.  Both are ruthless when they feel they need to be.
They are both hard-nosed political parties with similar political tactics that grew out of a similar sort of political base and had a similar kind of political appeal.  They have as many things in common as they do differences, including a willingness to do violence and a brutal nationalism that is willing to do almost anything to achieve its ends.

     The Likud has simply been around perhaps fifty years longer, and has accomplish more of its original goals.

quote:

What do you think about the amount of aid Israel has sent to Gaza, as listed above, Bob? Doesn't that seem a little strange to you that they continue to supply to populace of a country that they are supposedly trying to starve, according to the media? How many people were injured on the second ship that was boarded? Right, none, nor was there an incident. That ship was not loaded with radicals looking to create an international incident by attacking the Israelis that boarded.



     What do I think of the amount of aid Israel has sent to Gaza, as listed above?

     Ah?  There is a question for you.  Considering that the reason that most of that aid is needed is that Israeli policy makes it almost impossible for the people in Gaza to find work, to do the farming on the land that they once owned, and that these are, many of them, refugees as a result of the actions of Israel (and some of their Arab neighbors as well) who forced them off the land that battles were being fought across and who were not allowed to return, I'd say that the aid was a bit shabby.  Sort of like indian reservations instead of the land that the Indians originally owned.

     The unemployment in Gaza is astronomical because the jobs that many of the inhabitants once held outside Gaza were no longer available.  The long inspections are often necessary to cross from one side of the border to the other.  The aid is a small and partial recognition of the damage these actions have inflicted on the economy of the region.  The blockade has also forced the transfer of goods along the overcrowded surface road system and through the bottlenecked inspection sites, causing lengthy delays and higher prices than might otherwise be necessary.  This is hardly recompense for access to Gaza through some port of their own, which might serve to stimulate trade and the economy as well as allowing the transit of exports and imports more directly and cheaply.

     Do the Israelis have a right to inspect Palestinians or, for that matter, anybody traveling across that border.  Oh my, yes, they do.  There is no shortage of seriously angry Palestinians willing to be martyrs.  The Israelis are being prudent.

     But if you wish to feel great about the level of charity shown by the Israelis, I would suggest that this would not be something upon which to stake your pride.  If it were, you would be able to take a camera and walk through the streets and bazaars of Gaza and show the happy activity of the prosperous people.  I notice there aren't a lot of such pictures floating around.  If, in fact, the charity were what would pass as good charity in the  Jewish tradition, nobody would be writing about it, nobody would be showing pictures of it, and certainly, nobody would be bragging about it.  What you have here is PR, and not very good PR at that.

     The wish here is for there to be a right party and a wrong party, something with no ambiguity, where we westerners can make a judgement and say, "By golly, you're right.  Now we simply have to make the bad people see the folly of their ways, and everything will be well with the world."

     Not going to happen here.  Everybody's right about everything.  They're right about who's right in the conflict; they right about who's wrong in the conflict, even when they disagree.  They're right about whose fault it is, clearly, because the other party is obviously in the wrong, no matter who's telling the story.  Every hero is a villain, even when he's absolutely flawless, which we know because the Koran tells us so, or the Bible does, even when these infallible books disagree with each other in the telling.  They both are telling the absolute truth.

     The irony is that both of them believe the other is lying, which is of course true as well, as certainly as it's true that they're telling God's truth in this matter, so help them God.  Really, it's that simple, believe me.  
Denise
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62 posted 06-11-2010 08:15 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

If Gaza wants improved relations with Israel, open ports, unclogged roads and  less restrictive checkpoints, they need to vote out Hamas as the ruling authority, and choose a government whose stated mission is not the annihilation of Israel.
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     If Israel wanted peace with the Palestinians, in the same fashion, they'd have to think about the meaning of saying they were going to establish a Jewish State right in the middle of somebody else's territory.  How would you feel if Native Americans bought a bunch of property in the middle of Philly, tore down what was there, made the concrete wasteland of Rittenhouse Square and germantown bloom with crops, forced out everybody else who wasn't Native American and proclaimed a Native American Homeland there.  

     Backed by the U.N.

     Any U.S. Citizens still in the area who pledged to destroy this Indian Homeland or started some sort of a resistance against it — how would you feel if they were crowded into ghettoes, deprived of work and subject to random police and army raids.  You bet there'd be a resistance.  Maybe you wouldn't be part of it.  Maybe you would.  But the situation isn't as cut and dried as you paint it, Denise.  And I don't think the Israelis are doing themselves much good by failing to see and understand the Palestinian point of view.

     For one thing, buying a bunch of land doesn't give you national rights to that land.  Buying a house in Boston doesn't give you the right to form your own country on a little plot of land on Commonwealth Avenue or Beacon Street.  It simply says that your plot of land is recognized as being under your ownership by the local authorities and you can use it as long as you don't break some of the basic laws of that country, such as the payment of taxes to that country.

     It's a big step from buying land to having sovereignty over that land.

     There may actually be a real question over Israel's right to that land and the right of that country to be there.  I mean a legal right.  I don't think there's any justification for driving the Israelis into the sea, or killing them; but the legal right for them to have that land may well be open to some question.  The story of how the Israelis came to acquire it is only one side of the story, and it is not the story that the Palestinians tell.  There are two different stories here, and simply because I love the heroic Israeli myth, that doesn't mean that it is the true story or the right story.

     I don't know what story is.  I don't even know enough of the Palestinian side of the story to attempt a retelling of it, and thus be able to produce something that appears to be an A says, B says sort of narrative.  If you have one that proports to be complete, lets hear it.  Otherwise, you are insisting on the truth with only half the story told.  That may well be enough for you, but it offends my sense of fair play.  I have heard from Palestinians that they were ordered off the land by Israelis before the 1948 war, and were told they would be killed if they didn't leave.  This I have not heard from any western sources.  A second story Palestinians I have known told me is that Israelis told them that they would be able to return after the fighting was over and resume farming their land.   If the Palestinians had thought otherwise, they would not have left in the first place.  

     I will say that it's not a good place for a farmer to be, in the middle of a battlefield, and that any farmer sitting in the middle of such a space is an unusual farmer indeed.  
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64 posted 06-12-2010 07:53 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I'd say that the aid was a bit shabby


I think you’re being a little hasty there Bob.

You need far more information before reaching such a conclusion, for instance you need to know how much aid is required and how that relates to the amount being supplied. A million tons of aid in eighteen months sounds like a lot but if 1.5 million people require, I don't know, say.. 1.6875 million tons of food alone in that period then the amount being shipped could be classed as far worse than ‘shabby’.

If I were someone who was interested in the facts I’d do a quick ballpark calculation – I’d use the available data that says that the average person in the west consumes 0.75 tons of food a year, I’d multiply that by the 1.5 million people in Gaza then multiply it again by 1.5 to cover the eighteen month figure quoted. I’d then compare the result with what the Israelis claim they supplied and see how the figures stack up.

You may have noticed the word ‘claim’ in that last sentence Bob, there are two very good reasons for that.

Over one million tons of humanitarian supplies were delivered by Israel to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months

Do you get the impression from that statement that those nice Israelis went out and bought a milon tons of aid Bob, that they loaded it into trucks and delivered it personally to the people in Gaza? Does that sound right to you? Is it possible that the aid was in fact supplied and delivered by international humanitarian groups like the UN and that the only input the Israli’s can claim is that they stood at the border turning back all the aid they didn’t want to get to Gaza?

That’s one reason, here’s the second, it’s a little less compelling because to believe it you have to believe that Israel have been honest about aid shipments in the past.

According to Israeli sources it can only allow 10,000 tons of aid into Gaza a week, obviously they’d like to allow more but apparently that’s the absolute maximum that can be processed through the border checkpoints with the available manpower – and that’s if all the Israeli border staff are “working around the clock”.

If that’s correct, and it’s a fairly dubious ‘if',  then the 1 million ton figure they're claiming is unattainable – if Israel are telling the truth about how much aid can be shipped to Gaza in a week then their claim of 1 million tons is a complete fabrication. Conversely if they can, and have, shipped a million tons then they’ve been purposely capping shipments to 10,000 tons in the past.

I'd suggest 'shabby' isn't quite the right word for what they're doing.

.
JenniferMaxwell
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65 posted 06-12-2010 09:27 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Something to think about from the archives and one of Denise’s favorite sources:

Where are the Christians?
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51116

Denise
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66 posted 06-12-2010 04:12 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't agree with the views of all the commentators that I read on wnd, Jen.

Besides, didn't Obama say that we aren't a Christian nation in one of his speeches and then in another speech say that we were the world's largest Muslim country?
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67 posted 06-12-2010 08:59 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Ah, Grinch, Thank you for the extra mile on that one.
JenniferMaxwell
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68 posted 06-12-2010 10:11 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I’m sorry you missed the point.  
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I didn't miss the point, Jen. I don't agree with his views of the situation.
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70 posted 06-12-2010 10:41 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

His view is that “imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people” “ violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.” You disagree with that?
Denise
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71 posted 06-13-2010 06:48 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I disagree with his charactrerization of those events and that Israel was in the wrong in the situation, and that by extension, Christians were wrong for not speaking out against the war.

Huan Yi
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72 posted 06-13-2010 10:28 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


What's the total aid from all sources?
Wager it's impressive.

.
Grinch
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73 posted 06-13-2010 12:09 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
What's the total aid from all sources?
Wager it's impressive.


According to Israel the highest total of goods allowed across the border in a single week, from all sources, is 9666 tons.

According to the UN that’s about 25% of the amount required.

.
JenniferMaxwell
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74 posted 06-13-2010 01:02 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.commondreams.org/video/2010/06/13
 
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