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Passions in Poetry

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

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Essorant
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250 posted 06-27-2010 03:30 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Denise,

I am not saying she meant it that way: obviously there was a negative sense intended, but whether she meant it directed at you or your arguments can't be proved.  But even if it were directed at you, I don't think it is that harsh or worth taking too sorely.   Why do you think the comment wasn't removed?   Ron must not think it is that big of a deal either, though it obviously doesn't help anything!

I just meant the word itself can be thought of in other ways, therefore you aren't limited to taking it in negative perspective, even if it was meant to be taken that way.  

"The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer..."



 
Denise
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251 posted 06-27-2010 04:44 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes, Ess, I know what you are saying. Many words have many different meanings. But we can glean their definitive meanings in the context in which they are used.

The manner in which Jennifer used 'stone' immediately after telling Grinch not to waste his typing, followed by her 'clarification' referencing comments about people turning to stone, it's quite obvious she was slamming a person, not an argument, and it was intended as an insult, clever though it may have been. Too bad her 'clarification' wasn't as clever.

And then she topped it off with throwing the $5 hooker comment into the mix. Do you find anything outrageous about that tactic? Am I also not limited in my perspective regarding a slanderous insinuation such as that, something that she knew I wasn't free to delve into? Can't wait to hear the 'defend Jen' chorus on that ditry, low-down tactic. On that one, since there is no wiggle room to even try to defend it, there will be just silence...stone-cold silence.

I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over again. Michael was right. I'm just wasting my time.

Jen did it, against me, so it's just fine, or should be overlooked, or explained away.

Whatever.
Balladeer
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252 posted 06-27-2010 05:14 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, you are wasting your time, Denise, but you defend yourself very well and I admire you tenacity and standing up for yourself. Everything you said was correct. You are a good person and a kind person who does not deserve to be a target of insults by anyone. I will always stand up for you and support you because I have constantly seen your kindness toward others. For those who prefer to defend the insulter, let them. They really don't matter in the long run. Neither do these threads, actually.
Essorant
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253 posted 06-27-2010 05:17 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I am not trying to explain it away Denise.   But I don't want to aggravate it any further by making more words.   A mosquito only makes its bite, not the wound that fingers scratching too much may turn it into.  

Why doesn't Ron step in and help correct us?  Is there no moderation in The Alley anymore?

[This message has been edited by Essorant (06-27-2010 05:59 PM).]

Denise
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254 posted 06-27-2010 08:04 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks for your kind words, Michael. I appreciate you and your support. It sure is nice to know somebody here understands me.

I'm sure Ron thinks we can handle some things on our own, Ess. If he felt the need to step in he would. Things have not gotten out of hand. I'm just taking a stand, finally, and respectfully, against an unwarrented attack of name-calling and a slanderous accusation. I've let pass all her previous 'teabagger' insults, after asking her to stop using that term when referring to the TEA Party Groups because of its perverse and insulting connotation, fostered by MSNBC merely to mock a group of patriot citizns.  She stopped for a bit and then started in on it again. She's pushed too far this time. She needs to sincerely apologize for her despicable behavior. That's all. The ball is in her court now.
Balladeer
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255 posted 06-27-2010 08:42 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"But I don't want to aggravate it any further by making more words."

Wise words, Ess, ones that I wish were shared by others. Problem is, some people get pleasure out of the scratching...
Bob K
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256 posted 06-27-2010 11:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Talking while Jennifer isn't here doesn't help the situation from my point of view.  It appears to be conversation behind someone's back, but with the disadvantage of serving only to inspire ill feeling on her return.  If you want to speak to Jennifer, I'd suggest you try something on the topic, should you wish to talk about the topic.  

     If you want to talk about something personal, do it someplace else, where the rules don't request some civility.  It's not such a big request.  

     I don't need to know how you work out the rules for being civil with each other, do I?

     I haven't noticed anybody who doesn't slip every now and again and who shouldn't say they're sorry for something or other.  If you feel you've managed to get by with a perfect record, then maybe you need to acknowledge perfection is your flaw and go on from there, and let everybody else have a bit of a chuckle.  Nobody's perfect.

     Least of all me.

     If you've made a serious gaffe, then acknowledge it if you can tolerate it and ammend the mistake as best you can.  If you can't, lightening will strike from on Ron, I mean from on high, and it'll have to be worked out differently, but Ron tries to be pretty reasonable if you try to work with him, and he pretty much is.  You can't ask more than that.

     So, if anyone wants to continue this business in public, I'd like to hear what you've done wrong first before arrows get tossed elsewhere, with suggestions on what you need to do to correct your mistakes before you start pointing fingers elsewhere, and with a willingness to listen to feedback from others on those things as well, just so long as those others do the same thing about themselves first.

     That way maybe we can quit the blame tossing without any responsibility taking.

     Or we could simply get back to the subject, which to my mind is interesting enough in itself.

     That's my proposal.  If anybody has any others that would seem to control the acrimony, I'd be pleased to hear it or them.  

     Or I'd be just as pleased to drop the whole thing.

     But I thought I'd at least offer a proposal.
Balladeer
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257 posted 06-27-2010 11:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, it appeared the conversation was stopped...until you just revived it. Why not let it go?
JenniferMaxwell
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258 posted 06-28-2010 08:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Chicago was hot and steamy, seems it was about the same here.

Denise, if you thought any of my comments were intentional personal attacks, then as you know from your years of experience as a moderator, all you needed do was click the inappropriate content button. The mods and admins would then review, discuss and take whatever action they deemed necessary. However, since you didn’t do that or voice any objection to the stone comment at all until after Balladeer posted a personal attack directed at me including the word stone, then perhaps you really didn’t feel insulted or attacked, as he has suggested I wasn’t hurt or insulted by the $5 hooker comment? And again, similar sort of thing happened to Grinch, re Native American land being stolen, ie the “you’ comments. You didn’t seem to take his comment as a personal attack at all, didn’t even mention it until Balladeer characterized it as being a personal attack.
Hope that clarifies things a little for you. Feel free to email me if you have any questions now or ever about any of my posts.

Thanks for your support Grinch and Bob.
.
.
“At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there. The two officers consulted Janes’ Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship. “- IDF Report
JenniferMaxwell
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259 posted 06-28-2010 08:20 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Anyway, a very informative BBC presentation re the Liberty massacre:

Dead In The Water

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311#



JenniferMaxwell
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260 posted 06-28-2010 11:01 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Question for the forum mod or an administrator:

I wish to submit an inappropriate comment report re something posted in this thread but can’t since another inappropriate comment report has already been submitted locking out further reports.

The comment I would like to report is in #226. Could a mod or an admin advise me how I can file an inappropriate comment ticket on that particular post? Thanks!

Denise
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261 posted 06-29-2010 12:45 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't think I've been uncivil, Bob. I guess you think otherwise. I also don't see anything wrong with finishing something in public that was started in public. If it's annoying to anyone, no one is forcing them to read it. And I've never said I was perfect. My biggest flaw around here seems to be that I have a tendency to post things that liberals/progressives don't like. Ah well, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gee, for a split-second there I thought I was gong to get an apology, Jen. Oh well. Just shows what a naive optimist I can be at times.

You're wrong Jen. I did think your were attempting to insult me at the time. But it wasn't anything new coming from you, to me, (teabagger, teabagger, teabagger, ad nauseum) so I was going to let it slide...again.

I only brought it up as a clarification for Bob since he asked what Balladeer's reference could possibly be referring to. So I clarified it to him, that's all. Believe me, I wasn't sitting around crying in my beer because of a snarky comment you made to me. I've actually come to expect them.

You then, apparently resenting having your insult pointed out, decided to attempt a clarification, which only proved your original comment was intended as an insult, and then compounded it with your $5 hooker slur thrown my way, knowing that I couldn't talk about it in detail, and giving the impression that I had made such a comment to or about you in the past. That's when I got upset.

You can check the Mod Forum from here to kingdom come and you'll never find me flagging any comments there as inappropiate. I've never done it at all, let alone flagging someone who has said something against me. It's just not my style. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just don't.

Nor do I see the point of emailing you about something I see as an insult. I'd asked  you, nicely, right here on these forums, not to use the teabagger slur. You stopped for a bit, but then started in again worse than ever, knowing how I felt about it. You couldn't even respect me enough to refrain from that. Would an email have gotten better results? I have a better suggestion...think before you type, and then flagging and emailing wouldn't even be necessary. Or we can just agree that I won't post to your comments, and you won't post to mine in the future.

And Michael never called you a $5 hooker. You guys hashed that all out, he explained what he did mean by it and apologized for it. You agreed that the issue was resolved. Maybe you need to search your soul to see if you ever actually accepted his apology. It seems that maybe you didn't. It's not healthy to hold on to grudges like that.

I don't hold any ill will toward you, Jen. I'm just not putting up with your insults anymore.
Essorant
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262 posted 06-29-2010 01:40 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Jen

I find it disappointing you won't even offer the smallest apology to Denise.   It doesn't even matter so much what your motive was: you offended Denise and brought her into something that was between you and Balladeer, not you and her.   You don't see any problem at all in that, and in public where everyone else here is exposed to it too?  
 
Bob K
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263 posted 06-29-2010 03:13 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



    
Ess,

     There have been times I've apologised to Denise, but always because I've felt I've done something wrong.  I've said I was sorry to almost everybody at one time or another because I've actually felt I've said something that was either wrong or out of line.  If you look at the sort of things we tend to say to each other, people say a lot of that sort of stuff — out of line stuff or wrong stuff — to each other from at least somebody's perspective.

     The thing is that I don't see that Jennifer actually directed that comment toward Denise.  I don't know if Denise was in on the discussion of the original complaint.  If she was, she knows it was not concerning her.  Michael certainly knows it did not concern Denise and that it did concern Jennifer.  I had thought the issue resolved.

     To ask Jennifer to apologise for an insult that was directed at her in the first place, however, is not something I feel she should be asked to do.

     I do feel that Denise does have a right to request that she not be called "a teabagger" if she finds the term insulting.  I've made similar requests about folks using the Democrat as an adjective, as in "The 'Democrat' Party," and found people willing, at least part of the time, to go along.  I feel pleased about that, since it lowers the tension for me, particularly, and I would assume that discontinuing the use of "Teabagger" would lessen the tension for Denise.

     We can disagree without jabbing each other and keep out attention on the issues as much as possible.  

     Alas, Denise has her linguistic weaknesses as well, and may not be aware of the effects of her occasional comments about the Lamestream Media and such.  It was once quite possible to offer a crushing comeback to somebody who suggested you were not widely informed, widely traveled or some such thing.  Thoreau responded to some such yahoo by saying, "But I am widely traveled ... about Concord," and the country understood the wisdom of what he meant.  (Wish I could find a source for that, by the way.  I had it in conversation from a writer friend.)

     I still think my suggestion above was a decent idea.  

     That is, if you're going to take a shot at somebody else, you start things out by saying what you've done wrong first, and take responsibility for it, and ask for feedback.  Once you figure out what you need to do to make things better, you might try working on that and then ask somebody else if they mind if you offer a suggestion.

     Be prepared if they say no.

     I figure that apologising, for me, is at least a step in making sure that I take some responsibility for what comes out of my mouth.  Another step for me is to say when I like something that somebody says, which is often more difficult that a good apology.  For myself, my rule is I need to mean it.  I really hate that part sometimes.

Bob Kaven



    
Bob K
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264 posted 06-29-2010 03:37 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



  
Denise,

     If I thought Jennifer had tossed the five dollar hooker comment your way, I would have said so.  It would have upset me a great deal.  I'm very fond of Jennifer, but that would not have stopped me from expressing my unhappiness had I thought your perception to be accurate.

     It is also a curiously archaic phrase for a young woman to turn to in crafting an insult for an older woman, when you think about it, isn't it?  You and I share a generation, and we would be familiar with the insult, but in practical terms it would have predated us, too, wouldn't it?  When I was a kid, there was a house of ill repute across the street from my Grandfather's wholesale store, and I remember it well from when I was age five and six.  The whole society was much different, and much more stratified.  Respectable women wore white gloves when they went downtown.

     Jennifer wouldn't even know that.  And I think you know that Jennifer wouldn't know that, which is part of the history that makes hearing it so vivid for folks of our generation.  If I thought it was meant for your ears, I would have said so.  I can say that I'm very sorry you were exposed to it at all, though, and I wish you had not been.

Bob Kaven



    
JenniferMaxwell
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265 posted 06-29-2010 07:06 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I’m sorry you’re disappointed, Ess, that I won’t apologize for making a comment that I explained wasn’t meant as a personal attack.  And I’m also sorry, and a bit disappointed, that after the many, many, many times I’ve been attacked in this forum, to the best of my recollection, this is the only alleged injustice you’ve chosen to champion. Not a criticism, just wondering why that is.

“I wasn't sitting around crying in my beer”
Denise, honestly, I never once pictured you as being a beer drinker. Personally, I can’t stand the stuff, makes a lady smell like a wrestling fan or a weekend pub crawler.

Anyway, since you’re a forum moderator, perhaps you could advise me how I can report inappropriate content for particular posts in the discussion forum. I now have two I wish to report, 226 and 261. They’re not the usual rules violation, more like ethics violations, discussing, as well as mischaracterizing, matters that were supposed to be kept confidential. Thanks!


JenniferMaxwell
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266 posted 06-29-2010 07:26 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Gaza blockade 'easing' is a facade

"On August 15, 2005, Israel implemented what it called the unilateral Disengagement Plan. What most people saw was a generous gesture from Israel to evict Israeli colonists from Gaza.

However, the disengagement was anything but that. The media showed us emotional images of colonists weeping and being forcibly removed from their homes, even though they were there illegally, and their presence meant that the Palestinians were restricted from moving freely in their own land. What we were not shown, though, was the other side of the ‘plan'.

Israel maintained that it would control Gaza's airspace, coastline and borders, and had a right to undertake military operations when necessary, which made it effectively the occupying power, under the Geneva Conventions, with responsibility towards the civilian population.

Moreover, this ‘disengagement' was a cover-up for increasing colonies and checkpoints in the West Bank. According to Peace Now, an Israeli NGO, the number of colonists increased by 6,100 compared with 2004, to 250,000 in 2005 in the West Bank. The number of colonists as of June 2009 was about 300,000.

The United States, EU and even the Secretary-General of the UN Ban Ki-moon praised the disengagement initiative. What we are never shown however, is the number of Palestinian homes demolished in occupied East Jerusalem. In that same year, 76 homes were demolished in occupied East Jerusalem. Just last week, Israel announced it would raze 22 homes.

The colony ‘freeze', brought to the forefront this year due to the Obama administration's soft disapproval of colonies, was also another publicity effort to re-affirm Israel's seeming commitment to peace in the public's mind.

The colony freeze did not include occupied East Jerusalem, which Netanyahu said is part of Israel's “sovereign capital”— in contravention to international law and UN Security Council resolution 242 in 1967 and every UN resolution confirming it since. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, the transfer by an Occupying Power of its civilian population to the territory it occupies is illegal and may constitute a war crime. Moreover, the blatant apartheid of Jewish-only roads and facilities was also ignored by the international community."

More at: http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=222143

Balladeer
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267 posted 06-29-2010 08:21 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


"The thing is that I don't see that Jennifer actually directed that comment toward Denise."
"If I thought Jennifer had tossed the five dollar hooker comment your (to Denise) way, I would have said so."....BobK

"For the record, I've never called YOU anything, not even a $5 hooker.".....Jennifer to Denise
"It wasn’t you who called me a $5 hooker? ".....Jennifer to Denise.

Bob, you don't see it because you don't want to. There's the comment said directly to Denise. As far as the stone comment is concerned, it was also referred directly  at Denise. You don't want to acknowledge it? Fine but your attempts at redefining it just aren't working very well.

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268 posted 06-29-2010 08:37 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jennifer, as far as your ethics violation is concerned, your complaint is invalid. You brought up the cryptic $5 hooker comment, which had absolutely nothing to do with the thread and then left, knowing that such a comment would create curiosity and questions from others. Ess wanted to know what the reference was. Grinch wanted an explanation. John wanted an  explanation.  Ess wanted to know if the mods had deleted something. Grich spoke again about his burning curiosity. I had ignored the first three comments but it got to the point of not addressing it would be more damaging than explaining it, which I did. I did not violate the sanctity of the mod forum. I simply said a ticket had been issued, there was a discussion that you had participated in, and the matter was resolved. I went into no other details, except to say that your concern was my "class" comment, which I offered to delete and the mention of referring to you as a hooker did not come up. No other details were given.

You are complaining about an issue you caused. You knew the comment would be fodder for certain people and would provoke questions and comments. Now that it did, to the point an explanation was necessary, you are complaining about the giving of an explanation, which would have been impossible to give without mentioning the ticket issued.

If you didn't want it discussed, you shouldn't have brought it up.  You took a complaint that was discussed nowhere in the open forums and made it public. if you disagree, show  me anywhere in the Alley thread where you or anyone else made it an issue or complaint. Any ethics violation that could be charged would be directed at you, for that reason, but I have no desire to do so and neither does Denise. Why you decided to shoot that arrow in the air, not caring where it fell, is a mystery but, to try to cover it up by shooting more arrows,instead of just letting it go as an "inadvisable and unfortunate" comment on your part, makes less sense. Your fingers worked faster than you mind did. Period. You are not alone. We have all done that on occasion....
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269 posted 06-29-2010 11:43 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Excuse me, Balladeer, but your words, your slur implying that I was a $5 hooker, came from and  are still right here in the Alley. Post number 54 in this thread: http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001944-3.html  

I was referencing that hateful personal attack posted here in the Alley,I said nothing about any VM forum discussion. You did that yourself in #226 when you stated you were referencing material from a VM discussion:

“Afterwards, a person riding to the aid of Jennifer, issued a complaint, sort of, to the moderator forum and a discussion ensued. Due to site policy, details of mod forum discussions are not made public, suffice to say that Jennifer was a large part of that discussion and the thought of me calling her a "hooker" never came up.  The issue was that referred to her as "classless". I acknowledged that and apologized for the comment, offering to delete it, which was rejected. The issue was resolved without consequence.”

You and Denise violated the Confidentiality rule by discussing in this forum your version of what happened in part in a VM discussion. Here is the Confidentiality  rule exactly as posted by Ron. As you can plainly see, it mentions “discussions”in general in the VM forum, and is not restricted to revealing “details”of those discussions. The minute you stated there even was a discussion you were violating the rules.

Confidentiality
"One of the most important responsibilities in being a Moderator with Passions is understanding the necessity of maintaining confidentiality. Discussions within the moderator forums are intended exclusively for moderators and should not be shared outside of the moderators' confines."

To imply I forced you to break the confidentiality rule is ludicrous. The material I was referring to is right here in the Alley. I never  mentioned anything about a complaint being filed, you did that, and even threw in a hint about who might have posted it.

There was absolutely no need for you to bring up the VM forum discussion other than to spin it your way knowing that your interpretation of what transpired could never be challenged in this forum without violating the Confidentiality rule.

You and Denise broke the confidentiality rule. I do have a valid, a very valid complaint.
Ron
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270 posted 06-29-2010 12:45 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I wish to submit an inappropriate comment report re something posted in this thread but can’t since another inappropriate comment report has already been submitted locking out further reports.

That's a flaw in the software, albeit a necessary one. As you know, clicking the Inappropriate Comment button generates a new thread in the VM forum; there has to be some controls in place to prevent a flood of such threads being created. Not just by people, but by spam robots trawling the forums.

However, while that presents an occasional problem for Members, it shouldn't present a problem to you. You do, after all, have access to the VM Forum? You can either add to the complaint already addressing this thread or create a new one directly. You knew that, though. Of course, now that you've cleverly found a way of complaining more publicly, perhaps you might as well hash it out in public as well? It's certainly your call. In either event, you have to realize that your complaint is going to sound an awful lot like the Capuletes complaining the Montagues aren't playing nice again.

I stopped participating in this forum quite some time ago. My voice was silenced, like so many others I suspect, because I won't willingly be an accomplice to blatant disrespect, constant jabs and insults, and a general, pervasive atmosphere of ill will. This site was founded on the belief that people could discuss anything in a civil, even friendly manner. Respect and tolerance epitomized the spirit of the forums. People can continue to skirt our rules, patting themselves on the back for being oh so clever, but they cannot skirt the spirit. Its lack, in this forum, is palpable.

I stopped actively moderating this forum about the same time I stopped participating. That's a weakness on my part, I know. Were I stronger, I would have continued doing my job even though I was dead tired of telling the same things to the same people over and over and over. I was tired, though, busy too, and frankly I was a little curious to see just how far things would go if left unchecked. I knew the answer, of course, but hoped I was wrong.

If there is any lesson to be learned from the now defunct Critical Analysis forum it would probably be an observation that I won't beat my head against the same wall forever. Sooner or later, I give up on people. That, too, is a weakness on my part. It is, however, what it is.


Ron
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271 posted 06-29-2010 12:52 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Looks like you decided to address your complaint in public, Jennifer?

Okay, I have two questions for you, then.

Why did you raise the (mischaracterized) $5 hooker comment in this thread?

Where was the last thread, prior to this one, in which you discussed it?

The answers to those questions, perhaps, will help us all understand the situation a little better.

JenniferMaxwell
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272 posted 06-29-2010 02:05 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"You can either add to the complaint already addressing this thread or create a new one directly. You knew that, though."

Actually I didn't realize that and it seems neither did Balladeer or Denise or surely they would have mentioned it seeing it's sort of part of their job as administrator/lead forum moderators to help members with their questions and concerns and they both had ample time to read/respond to my question posted last night in this thread.

No, I didn't want the discussion about the Confidentiality violation in this forum in the off chance that I myself might say something that broke the Confidentiality rule. That’s why I asked twice how to post it in the VM forum.

I did just three tours as a VM quite a while ago. It simply didn’t occur to me that you could start a discussion in the VM forum about a particular thread without clicking on IC button. But now that you tell me it's possible, I'll give it a try.  Thanks for your help.

I thought I explained my reason for raising the issue in my reply to Denise in post # 258. Will try again: Some comments are actually personal attacks and others aren’t. Implying someone is a $5 hooker is a personal attack, using the word “stone”isn’t.

My last reference to the implied $5 hooker comment?  I believe it  was when I suggested to Balladeer in an Alley post that he was out of line about something else.  

Ron
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273 posted 06-29-2010 03:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I did just three tours as a VM quite a while ago. It simply didn’t occur to me that you could start a discussion in the VM forum about a particular thread without clicking on IC button.

That surprises me a little, Jennifer, since there are several threads on the first page of the VM forum started by other Volunteer Moderators, at least one of which also served exactly three tours.

quote:
Implying someone is a $5 hooker is a personal attack, using the word “stone”isn’t.

First, Jennifer, you didn't just "use" the word stone, you used it in reference to another Member. That IS a personal attack because the rule remains "attack the post, not the poster." Indeed, every single person in this thread who decided to characterize other Members in ANY fashion less than complimentary is guilty of infringing our guidelines. More importantly, however, the spirit of the forums, the guiding principles of Respect and Tolerance, have been infringed.

Second, no one ever called you a $5 hooker.

You claimed, if perhaps subtly, to have manipulated another person so you could win five dollars. Some of us, Jennifer, don't see manipulation of others in a positive light. A hooker only sells her body and, for many, that need not include her integrity. A hooker is at least being honest with others. You clearly weren't.

That does not, however, make the comment, however mischaracterized by people with sex on their minds, acceptable. Which is precisely why we had a private conversation to resolve it. And of course, now that you've started a thread in VM, that's also where I'll address your other concerns.


JenniferMaxwell
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274 posted 06-29-2010 03:54 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Surprised or not, that’s the way it was. As a matter of fact, I’m kind of embarrassed to find out I did a big DUH.

Nope, never mentioned Denise in that post, I was responding solely to Grinch’s comment.

I totally agree with you on the manipulation thing. Twisting people’s words and comments to imply they’re personal attacks or racist remarks is really pretty low.

I don’t think there’s any other way to read Balladeer’s comment, slavery has been abolished and $5 is below the minimum wage. Perhaps Balladeer needs to enlighten us as to what he meant when he said $5 was about what I was worth? Could make the Alley all bright and beautiful again.


 
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