How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Still think the Republican led AZ legisl   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  ]
 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Still think the Republican led AZ legislature isn't racist?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


200 posted 05-26-2010 01:17 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The Gospel, according to Pelosi..
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=Xd6UkUSUZu
N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet
Member
since 07-30-2009
Posts 369
New Orleans


201 posted 06-01-2010 03:30 AM       View Profile for N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet   Email N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for N|D|N|C|Lost-Poet

Well, I'm sad I let this thread go un-read for so long.

Looks to me like you guys are discussing a pretty interesting topic and well to tell the truth most of the opinions come from third or even fourth party sources.

I grew up Chicano, raised by my Mother who was raised Chicana in Midland-Odessa Texas.

My father? White-Irish.

Being too brown to hang with the whites.
Too white to hang out with the Chicanos.

I've seen four shades of racism and learned that its not the color of your skin. Its how you talk, how you walk, how you dress and how you think.

Its just culture.

We don't want to be like Them,
Them don't want to be like we,
And They want to be like They,
And we like it that way,

Its showing how you were raised by a glance, shaved heads and low belts- Cholo. Oldie Chicano culture. We don't BBQ ribs, we cook Barbacoa de cabeza and the Mothers feed the children first, men second, and eat last.

We dont use silverware, we use tortillas and it doesn't taste good unless your sweating from the heat of the salsa.

My grandfather and grandmother have trouble speaking English. My mother has no accent and I can barely speak Spanish.

Other avenues. Not sure who said it, but its very true.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


202 posted 06-11-2010 10:25 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


http://www.economist.com/node/15954262?story_id=15954262&fsrc=rss
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


204 posted 06-13-2010 10:23 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Here is a write-up of one of the recent law-suits brought by the ACLU against the State of Arizona on the part of multiple defendants.  The basis for the suit is described in the article, but was predictable from the nature of the law.
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights-racial-justice/friendly-house-et-al-v-halliday-et-al
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


205 posted 06-13-2010 10:32 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     And here is an opinion piece worth having a look at which points out the Human Rights issues inherent in the Arizona Law.  It also points out the amount of profiling already done in Arizona and its recent increase.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/19/bhatnagar.arizona.violation/index.html
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


206 posted 06-14-2010 02:13 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     And here is an opinion piece worth having a look at which points out the Human Rights issues inherent in the Arizona Law.  It also points out the amount of profiling already done in Arizona and its recent increase.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/19/bhatnagar.arizona.violation/index.html
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


207 posted 06-14-2010 02:14 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     And here is an opinion piece worth having a look at which points out the Human Rights issues inherent in the Arizona Law.  It also points out the amount of profiling already done in Arizona and its recent increase.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/19/bhatnagar.arizona.violation/index.html
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


208 posted 06-18-2010 03:23 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     The reason for the multiple postings above is that I couldn't get the program to go from Been There Done That comment back to the Topic site and I gave up a couple of times.  I'm not good with computers.  As I have proven on many occasions.

     Thanks for asking, Mike.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


209 posted 06-18-2010 08:17 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"In a June 8 media interview in Ecuador that began circulating Thursday in the U.S., Clinton said President Barack Obama thinks the federal government should determine immigration policy and that the Justice Department "will be bringing a lawsuit against the act."
Justice spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler on Thursday declined to say whether the department would sue and that "the department continues to review the law."
The department has been looking at the law for weeks for possible civil rights violations, with an eye toward a possible court challenge.

It's unclear why Clinton made the comment since it's not her area. She couldn't be reached Thursday for comment.
State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Obama and Clinton have both made it clear that the administration opposes the law.

"I will defer to the Justice Department on the legal steps that are available and where they stand on the review of the law," Crowley said. "The secretary believes that comprehensive immigration reform is a better course of action."

Brewer, a Republican, said in a statement that "this is no way to treat the people of Arizona." "To learn of this lawsuit through an Ecuadorean interview with the secretary of state is just outrageous," she said. "If our own government intends to sue our state to prevent illegal immigration enforcement, the least it can do is inform us before it informs the citizens of another nation."

Brewer spokesman Paul Senseman said the governor was "outraged" and that Clinton's comments make it appear that the Justice Department has decided to file suit. "But she's confident that in the end, the state of Arizona, the citizens, will prevail," he said.

Other Arizona politicians, political candidates and activist groups were quick to weigh in on Clinton's remarks. U.S. Senate candidate J.D. Hayworth, who is challenging Sen. John McCain, called them appalling; attorney general candidates Tom Horne and Andrew Thomas also denounced them."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_law_clinton

Isn't it interesting that Arizona needs to find out about things like this from third-party people instead of the administration. Obama spoke to the news media and the public, instead of Arizona (until he was forced to) and Clinton's remarks came via an Ecuadorian interview. They will talk about Arizona but not to them.

Post all the opinion pieces you like, Bob, even from your electric lawyer. The fact remains that Obama turned it over to the justice department weeks ago to check on it's constitutionality. One would think that, only 16 pages long, they would have had plenty of time to find any infractions contained therein....and they have said nothing. There is little doubt there will be an all-out attack on it and Arizona before it goes into effect, regardless of the fact the majority of Americans are behind it....but this administration has shown on numerous occasions that that fact doesn't matter. Clinton wants the federal government to sue a state.....this is what we are becoming. The government may be suing many states then, if all of those considering the same law follow through. This may help convince the states to do so.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


210 posted 06-19-2010 06:11 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     You may have missed the posting 205 above, Mike, or decided not to look at it because of the ACLU tag, but it is in fact a suit against the State of Arizona on some of the same grounds that I was discussing.  The grounds for a suit seem fairly clear.  I tend to feel that President Obama is fairly slow to act on things, but with this suit in place, there is a decent challenge to the law already going on and the Republicxans concerned have nothing to be shocked about.

     They've know what the problems are with the law from the beginning.  To say that they're shocked is silly.  I'd be willing to bet they know what the grounds of the federal suit will be before it even materializes, and that they'll be in substance, the same as the grounds of the ACLU suit because those are good constitutional grounds to contest the thing on.  The law is vulnerable there, and the supremes will have to play fast and loose with the constitution in order to say otherwise.  I don't put that beyond this particular court, mind you, but the constitutional grounds are there and they are plain.

     Your upset is about the timing and the protocol of the suit to be, from the text you've offered, and not the grounds, so it seems you've got some understanding that you're trying to argue in terms of populist appeal rather than constitutionality.  Pretty weak tea for a guy who claims he want nice soild constitutional government.

     Except when he doesn't like what the constitution says, or thinks it says something else.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


211 posted 06-19-2010 07:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"  Except when he doesn't like what the constitution says, or thinks it says something else."

Spare me, Bob. You can make your insults better than that. At least I know the country has a constitution, something that apparently the Democrats have yet to learn.


The ACLU? They file at least three suits before breakfast every morning. It's part of their daily routine.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


212 posted 06-19-2010 07:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So we have Posner talking to the Chinese about Arizona, Obama talking to the Mexicans and Clinton talking to the Ecuadorians. Anybody taking to Arizona? Nope.

Maybe the justice department should talk to Mongolia?
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


213 posted 06-19-2010 08:09 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I also believe that the Arizona bill is unconstitutional Bob, and that an injunction will be put in place to stop it being enforced faster than you can say ďbadly drafted legislationĒ.

.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


214 posted 06-19-2010 10:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Unlike people here, the justice department will have to show WHERE it is unconstitutional. True enough, they might do that by rewriting the constitution but that would be the only way. The reason why the administration pleads their case to other countries is that the majority of people in this one favor it, not that that matters to The Savior.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


215 posted 06-20-2010 04:23 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     No, Mike, the Justice Department doesn't.  Any lawsuit covering the appropriate ground can do that.  Despite your dislike for the ACLU, which you tempt me to join, its business is the defense of the constitution.  It ruffles Liberal feathers as well.  It's business is defense of the constitution, not keeping populists happy.

     If you want to check into the basis of the ACLU lawsuits on the Arizona law, nobody's stopping you.  Your knowledge that the U.S. has a constitution has not apparently gone far enough to understand where Arizona seems to be violating it, and where the ACLU has a good chance of getting the law thrown out.  That information is available on the ACLU web site.  I'd be reasonably surprised if you checked that out, but I've been wrong before.  There is a good solid case, but it does depend on the Supremes and they are fairly conservative at this point, so I don't know what they'll say or even if they'll hear the case.  The Justice department may have to bring a case after all.

     I think that plenty has been said to Arizona.

     I think The President has said the the Bill was ill advised, I think the justice department has said the same thing,  I think that many of the more conservative voices in America have said that it's a great thing to do and while it's popular with lots of anti-immigrant people it simply doesn't hold up well against the constitution.  The Governor of Arizona has said that she doesn't know how to identify an illegal alien by sight and she's trying to rally the rabble rousing right behind her.  She doesn't like what the Feds have had to say, and you don't either, so you're pretending that nothing's been said.

     The truth is that plenty's been said, but that it's been said politely and you're pretending to be deaf.

     If it were said loudly and firmly, you'd be saying the government was bullying you.

     My preference is for politely.

     The comments to "everybody but Arizona" have been meant fairly clearly for Arizona as well.  If you want to pretend that's not so, I can't help how deaf you wish to be, but I for one understand it plainly enough.  If it were LBJ, the President would have nailed the Arizona Governor's ears to the barn door and piped the music in at top volume, but President Obama is more low key than that.  And he is not happy with the woman, in a very polite way.

    
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


216 posted 06-20-2010 06:08 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Unlike people here, the justice department will have to show WHERE it is unconstitutional.


I already did that Mike, and you actually agreed with me.

I pointed out that under this legislation in certain circumstances legal citizens would be required to present documentary evidence to prove their citizenship or run the risk of being detained or incarcerated until they did so.

You agreed but said itíd be a very rare occurrence, remember?

I donít know how to break this to you Mike but demanding that an American produces documentary evidence of citizenship and detaining a citizen without charge until they do so is unconstitutional, whether itíll happen to one or one million citizens makes not one bit of difference.

The irony is that if your pathetic excuse for a leader had introduced similar legislation this place would be awash with tea bag wielding Glenn Beck clones bemoaning the Muslim, Marxist, Leninist, Socialist assault on the constitution and the freedom of Americans.

  
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


217 posted 06-20-2010 08:58 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"I think that plenty has been said to Arizona.     I think The President has said the the Bill was ill advised, I think the justice department has said the same thing,

No, Bob, these people have done the same thing you do on occasion. They talk about someone, not to them. Obama, Napolitano, Clinton, the Justice department, etc have spoken publicly about Arizona but not to them. The governor left several messages with the White House, asking to speak to Obama that went unanswered. Only when the public became aware that Obama was ignoring her requests to meetings, did Obama agree to a meeting.

"The truth is that plenty's been said, but that it's been said politely and you're pretending to be deaf.
     If it were said loudly and firmly, you'd be saying the government was bullying you."

LOL! You call Obama's rants "polite"? Warning people that they might not be able to walk down the street with their son without fear of getting arrested is "polite"? The insults hurled at the governor have been "polite"? The organized rallies against Arizona and the threats against them have been "polite"? Well, perhaps, in the Democrat Dictionary, they are. You would know, wouldn't you?
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


218 posted 06-20-2010 09:01 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"The irony is that if your pathetic excuse for a leader had introduced similar legislation this place would be awash with tea bag wielding Glenn Beck clones bemoaning the Muslim, Marxist, Leninist, Socialist assault on the constitution and the freedom of Americans."

No, grinch, I think the irony is that you would think so. Perhaps your finger is not as tightly on the pulse of America as you would like to believe.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


219 posted 06-20-2010 09:08 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Nice one Mike.

I answer your question and you ignore it and change the subject Ė now where have I heard that accusation before? Oh yeah now I remember you keep tossing it at Bob.

Pot, kettle, black Mike, pot, kettle black.


Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


220 posted 06-20-2010 02:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You mean one needs to respond to an answer? I had thought that applied to questions. My mistake. Pot kettle black? Even Father's Day is not safe from childlike taunts
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


221 posted 06-20-2010 03:44 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
You mean one needs to respond to an answer?


Apparently, not Mike Ė To play this childish game what you do is ignore the answer and then later claim that nobody answered it.


I could be wrong on the exact rules Mike, Iím not used to these types of games so Iíll bow to your experience.


Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


222 posted 06-20-2010 05:20 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



      I will help you look for your head, Mike.  I think I see it yonder, under the lightpost, and if you'll wait here, I'll see if I can catch it before it rolls under the truck.

     Youch!

     A thing of beauty is a joy forever.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


223 posted 06-20-2010 05:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I understand, grinch. Instead of waiting for me to claim no one answered it, you are  just going to save time by accusing me of going to do it before I do it. That's really a sad attempt at a recovery. I think we are done here.
Bob, thank you for clarifying that comments here need not show any signs of intelligence.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


224 posted 06-20-2010 05:56 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Instead of waiting for me to claim no one answered it, you are  just going to save time by accusing me of going to do it before I do it.


I think Iím getting the hang of this game Mike, when you say this:

quote:
Unlike people here, the justice department will have to show WHERE it is unconstitutional.


I donít point out that Iíve already answered the question of WHERE the legislation is unconstitutional because if I do you gain points by ignoring that I answered. You then get to change the subject and I lose even more points if I mention it. Finally, if things are really looking bad, you deny everything, pick up the ball and wander off in a huff claiming victory.

Well played Mike.


 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Still think the Republican led AZ legisl   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors