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Still think the Republican led AZ legislature isn't racist?

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Balladeer
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25 posted 05-02-2010 09:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Still waiting, Bob.....
Balladeer
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26 posted 05-02-2010 11:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Where are you, Bob? You have time to be trashing my thoughts on the other thread. How about answering my question asked here?

Are you afraid that it will show your own actions are what you are so eager to accuse me of? Let's have an answer then...
Bob K
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27 posted 05-03-2010 12:00 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:


That is a very excellent point, grinch. The answer, in many cases, is no. You can come visit me and I'll prove it. We have thousands of Cubans and Haitians who have been here for many years who do not speak English and have shown no desire to integrate into the system at all, with the exception of finding jobs or working with relatives. They have their Spanish communities, Spanish, newspapers and magazines, Spanish  radio and television channels....and they stay within their own communities, with no desire to integrate or learn the language. They can live fine without it.

I read years ago a book about the fall of Rome (no, I can't remember the book) but the main gist of it was that Rome had incorporated so many foreigners into their society, through conquests or whatever, but the foreigners did not incorporate themselves into the system. They pledged allegiance to their own countries and when it came time for Romans to stand together to defend themselves, there were not that many willing to do so, which led to a weakening and, ultimately, the downfall of Rome. Whether that is completely accurate or not I don't know but I can envision it happening.



     Sorry it too me so long to get back to you, Mike.  I actually was spending some time with my wife.  You may feel she's less important, be somehow I just didn't get around you noticing your upset for a few hours.

     No Mike, you didn't say those things.  What you did say is quoted above.  That Rome, a country that insofar as you're aware didn't force people to incorporate themselves into their empire, fell because people didn't show loyalty to the empire.

     I misunderstood you, and was incorrect.

     It's a poor analogy to compare The United States to an Empire of conquered provinces and countries.  Arizona asked to be admitted to the Union and their citizens vote in our elections.  The Folks in Transalpine Gaul didn't elect Officials in Rome.  They were appointed in Rome and were sent out to the provinces to administer the Provinces and steal whatever they could.  The Folks in Rome Elected the Officials in Rome.  Later, The Emperors did a lot of that.

     The order that was kept in the provinces  was enough to keep things peaceful and to allow for civic works and for the theft of an optimum amount of money for the coffers back in Rome, and enough to support the army as well.  Loyalty was secondary to fear, for the most part.  Innovation and engineering helped maintain power.

     Greek was for the most part the first language for the more civilized, and Latin was the secondary Language.  The regular folks in Rome itself spoke Latin.  The Ruling classes frequently spoke Greek.  Like in England, where for many years the ruling classes spoke French, and only the grunts spoke the various dialects of English.  Clerics and many of the Upper classes spoke Latin as well.

     In The United States, English is, right now, the language of Power.

     Depending on how you count, The Roman Empire may well have lasted until 1453, when the Turks took Constantinople.

     If you want loyalty, you have to earn loyalty.  The people you need to earn it from are the judges of that.  You don't get to say, I've earned your loyalty.  It doesn't come from the top.  And this law does a lot to destroy large amounts of it.
nakdthoughts
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28 posted 05-03-2010 06:52 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

just putting my 2 cents in (which usually doesn't count or even get a response in this forum...)

Over 25 years ago, probably closer to 30, I was hired (after taking some lessons from a social justice committee from the Catholic Church at the time who sponsored families from war-torn countries) to teach new students in our school district in PA how to speak English. Back then it was called English as a Second Language or ESL .   I never spoke Polish, or Viet-Namese or Cambodian or any of their home languages.

I spoke strictly English in complete sentences with the children either repeating or learning to answer by repetition and body positioning, etc.

The grades were from K through high school although they were usually put 1 or 2 grades behind until they caught up. These children were from the Polish Solidarity Movement or Cambodian Boat people or from Viet Nam or were children adopted from overseas  orphanages.  The student's parents went to night school which was offered freely to help them also learn English.

Within a year the children were speaking  fluently and completing their school work with the help of a buddy system and the older ones would go home and on their own read the dictionary or Encyclopedia  to  learn more. Today, one is a doctor.

In the schools that I work today as a substitute, immigrant children are taught by an ESOL degreed teacher, who pulls them out of the classroom during regular instruction times.

When they go back to their classes, I notice that "some" who are of the same culture or language background, tend to speak to each other in their native language and some won't speak English at all in answering...and I see some of their work suffering because of it.

These aren't  children who have only been here a year but maybe 3 and by now should have a better understanding of English and should be able to complete their work even with a little help.

It is the repetition as in most early learning that helps them assimilate.


And as far as accents  go, it is no different than when a child comes from another area of the U.S. and is born here and uses colloquial speech and is told or explained the correct grammar usage.


And just another problem I see is that today handwriting is barely taught or at least not considered important due to technology and the use of computers. So many children in the upper grades  can't even write in cursive or have legible handwriting because they use the excuse of not needing to because of typing and the use of computers...

Well what happens when electricity is turned off or there is some catastrophic event and you have to be able to use other means to communicate in writing?  Why all of a sudden  are we  allowing everything that was "good" in our society to become lax.

Maybe it's the sign of old age  on my part, but I am seeing the downfall of our society in many ways and not just in education
(which of course they like to blame on the teachers and not on the parents' lack of responsibility and administrations that are changing and bowing to protests that are not having us live up to our potential.

Well... I am off to school to try and do what is best for those students I work with...it's a shame that every child does not get that benefit.

M


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29 posted 05-03-2010 07:28 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
It also would ban classes that "promote resentment toward a race or class of people."

Why would we ever want to do that? I, now, completely understand why this law is 100% wrong. Thank you for bringing me to the light of understanding that every single Republican is a racist because of ONE administrator's actions.

nakedthoughts-
I actually spent a great portion of my childhood within (insert favorite gross action here) distance of the Mexican Border, and it was very similar to what you were just describing.
In addition to having the classes to teach the children English (or, better, American) there was a speech therapist on staff to assist those who were having the lion's share of difficulty with learning proper pronunciation. The children were also paired with a "buddy" to assist them in doing their work, and with explaining things with more of a one on one, so they could be helped.
Yes, we still had illegals passing through (and working at the farm at the outskirts of town); yes, we had almost as many hispanics as anglos; no, we weren't told we had to push one for English; no, we weren't told we had to "understand" and allow them to be taught in Spanish so they could get a proper education; no we didn't pair hispanics with hispanic buddies who spoke with an accent.
My "student buddy" actually got better grades than I did once he got the gist of this pesky English thing, and did whatever it took to learn it to the best of his ability because he realized that no one was going to allow him to get away with anything because we didn't want to hurt his feelings. He spoke his native Spanish (actually, he was- I think- from south America as opposed to Mexico; however, the same logic applies) during lunch and during recess; however, when dealing with situations where it was proper to use the predominant language of his adopted country, he did so.
Students, and people in general, will rise to the level of expectation that they are given. We need to be able to expect it without them screaming we are racists and forcing us to cower in the corner with our hands over our faces begging "Please, don't hurt us."

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE

rwood
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30 posted 05-03-2010 07:53 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

So true M Three cheers for you and your efforts!!!

I’m with you. English is much more than a primary course of study or a temporary chore that one must hack away at long enough to pass a class. I’ll always be a student.

Diction & articulation do not define one as being inept or superior in the studies of English. Truman Capote would never have had a chance!

But: Students of English are uprising with anger here in Tennessee, with due cause.

There is undeniable evidence that non-English speaking students, who sit in the same classrooms—who cannot form or comprehend a complete sentence in English, written or spoken or otherwise, are being passed and graduating. Whereas other students, despite their efforts with their own language, fail and have to repeat the class to graduate. There’s something wrong with that and everyone is suffering. It’s akin to the problem of illiteracy with any graduating student, and race complicates such, but students are not receiving fair treatment.
Balladeer
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31 posted 05-03-2010 08:46 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Maureen, your two cents are always golden and I understand exactly what you mean. When I taught at Berlitz, we had one on one classes that lasted 12 hours per day. We had classroom study, went out to dinner, went to the movies or sporting events, and the student had to do all of the talking....and in English. At the movies he had to purchase the tickets, get the popcorn and drinks in English, or whatever came up. Same at the restaurants. These were people highly motivated to learn. WIthin three months their English was excellent.

I also taught at t he Centro Venezolano-Americano in Caracas. These were classes of 15-30 people. Things were going along very well. I spoke only in English and tried to explain things to them in English. One day, one of my students overheard me talking to a Venezuelan teacher in Spanish. When word got to my students that I spoke Spanish, the class completely changed. They wanted explanations in Spanish. When I refused, they got angry. Their learning nosedived. Go figure. ANyway, thanks for sharing your experience and keep fighting the good fight.

Local Rebel
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32 posted 05-03-2010 03:37 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Hi Mo!  Thanks for adding some much needed diversity to this thread.  Sorry I don't have as much time during the week but I'd like to get some input on this:

quote:

In the book Meeting the Needs of Second Language Learners, Judith Lessow-Hurley
summarizes the benefits of providing ELLs with native language support in five brief
research findings:

1. Concepts and skills that students learn in another language transfer to English
2. Strong native language development helps students learn English
3. School-related tasks require a sophisticated grasp of the English language and native
language support can help students develop their language and literacy skills
4. Students who are highly proficient in two languages appear to have academic
advantages over monolingual students
5. Supporting native language bolsters students’ self-esteem.3

Research shows that when the students’ native language is used correctly in educational
programs, it can accelerate the second language acquisition process and help foster
academic success. In allowing students to use their native language in the classroom—
speaking it, writing it, reading it, and even teaching others to speak some of it—educators
empower ELLs.4 Moreover, students can feel recognized and validated in the classroom,
which results in a strong sense of self.

However, students’ attitudes about school, their own views of themselves as learners, and
their feelings about education in general are all shaped by what happens both in the
classroom and throughout the school environment.5 The “school environment” includes, but
is not limited to, riding the school bus, breakfast or lunch times, recess, passing periods, and
school events. Educators should not prohibit language minority students from using their
native language in these non-instructional settings, as long as the conversation is not off topic, offensive to others, or disruptive.

Reprimands for these instances should be for
students’ behavior rather than for native language use and should be handled on a case-bycase
basis.

The Indiana Department of Education has sought the guidance of several organizations and
government agencies regarding policies or regulations on the use of native language during
non-instructional time. One of these organizations is the Teachers of English to Speakers of
Other Languages (TESOL) Association, which provides several position statements
regarding people’s right “to retain and use their native languages in public or private without
interference on the part of any governmental agency, regulation, or statutes,”6 and
emphasizes that they “value and encourage multilingualism in all learners at every age and
level.” TESOL recognizes the global community we live in and the interconnectedness of
language and culture. They assert that the ability to communicate in more than one
language “is more important than ever in promoting international cooperation and goodwill,
and in dispelling misunderstanding and mistrust.” 7

English language learners face many challenges in order to succeed in American schools.
It is crucial for educators to provide socioculturally supportive classrooms and school
environments that allow students to develop linguistically, academically, and cognitively.8
Students who maintain a positive ethnic identity as they acculturate and who become fluent
in two or more languages are more likely to have better mental health, do well in school, and
graduate from high school than those who completely assimilate into the mainstream
culture.
http://www.doe.in.gov/lmmp/pdf/native_language_use.pdf



Hey Bradley
quote:

    quote:It also would ban classes that "promote resentment toward a race or class of people."

Why would we ever want to do that? I, now, completely understand why this law is 100% wrong. Thank you for bringing me to the light of understanding that every single Republican is a racist because of ONE administrator's actions.



Racism always likes to wear a white sheet -- the particular legislation you're referencing is full of white sheet comments like that one that hide the true nature and goals it intends.  I would suggest you re-read the cited article and you'll see that it's more than what you're reading -- especially not the actions of ONE administrator -- and certainly doesn't mean that all Republicans (or Tea Partiers) are racists -- remember -- about 50% of Democrats favor the AZ legislation too -- but, if you're concerned about racism -- it should concern you that the Republican party and the Tea Party in particular are so attractive to people who ARE racist.

Denise
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33 posted 05-03-2010 04:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Your racist accusations are quite insulting, L.R.
Bob K
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     Is there research on the matter, Denise?  Is LR reporting the results of research or is what he says unfounded.  If it is unfounded, it is insulting indeed.  If his comments are based on solid research, you may be upset with the conclusions, but you would do well to counter LR on more objective as well as personal grounds.

     Is there research on the matter, or isn't there?  What proof does LR have of his statement?  If it is true, that does not mean that the finding must apply to you, does it?

     LR, what are the details on the matter?
nakdthoughts
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35 posted 05-03-2010 05:52 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Just another quick response since I am dealing with a high blood-pressure issue and don't wish to get myself worked up  

But I can't see punishing or reprimanding any student for speaking their native language especially when done on their own time... I remember telling the  children that at some point their language and ours would "click" and all of a sudden everything would become easier for them. First of all and maybe lastly none of them are dumb...they come with a spoken language and all that needs to happen is for it to translate or correlate into English...

And LR, I have been saying for years that we as American English-only speakers will be and are at a disadvantage for jobs as you can see in the job ads when the companies prefer bilingual applicants if possible. We should be teaching Spanish or Chinese etc... at a young age when it is much easier to learn. Some teachers I know in a few schools label their rooms in Spanish and  have some activities for fun that the lower grades enjoy.

Here I am adding more...one of the schools I work at is called Padonia International School..has over  27 languages spoken by the students and families...each school in our area where I teach also has Diversity Night where parents of the multicultural students come and  give  assemblies on their  home lands and provide foods for all to taste... I just don't like it when others try to pigeon hole our whole country as if we are against immigrants. But it is a 2-way street ( darn I hate to use these old phrases!)All parties have to work together to meet the needs of each.
Local Rebel
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36 posted 05-03-2010 06:38 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well Bob here's at least one I already posted:
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001991-2.html#33

full research here: http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/racepolitics.html

Stormfront loves the Tea Party: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t588834/

here's some more links: http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/12/carl-paladinos-emails-tea_n_534691.html

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=376769796902&ref=mf

sorry that's all I have time for at the moment
Local Rebel
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37 posted 05-03-2010 06:43 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Mo,

I think you're right -- we need to be more bi-lingual, my daughter is doing quite well in Japanese -- in which she got A's while getting D's in English

But the real takeaway for me from the research is that ESL students do better when their native language (and especially culture) is re-enforced..
Balladeer
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38 posted 05-03-2010 06:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

We reported quite a few reasons why DEMOCRATS are a much better fit for the term racist than republicans. The links were basically ignored so it would be a waste of time reposting them. If you're interested, find them...they are in the Ted Kennedy Memorial Muck-Muck thread.

A BYRD in the hand is kkkuter than two Bushes.
Local Rebel
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39 posted 05-03-2010 07:07 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Oh I quite agree Mike -- the Democratic party used to be the home for racism in America in a group -- as we've discussed- called the Dixiecrats. George Wallace would certainly have kept the White House white -- But the party went in the direction of the other George instead -- McGovern that is...

What I fail to understand though, is that Nixon's FAMOUS "Southern Strategy" (which we've also discussed} to gain the support of the Dixiecrats --and the fact that the Republican party is now the home of the former Dixiecratic voters -- doesn't bother you?
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1751.html

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (05-03-2010 07:47 PM).]

Balladeer
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40 posted 05-03-2010 08:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Analysts such as Richard Johnston and Byron Shafer have argued that this phenomenon had more to do with the economics than it had to do with race. In The End of Southern Exceptionalism, political scientists Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Shafer of the University of Wisconsin wrote that the Republicans' gains in the South corresponded to the growth of the upper middle class in that region. They suggested that such individuals believed their economic interests were better served by the Republicans than the Democrats. According to Johnston and Shafer, working-class white voters in the South continued to vote for Democrats for national office until the 1990s. In summary, Shafer told The New York Times, "[whites] voted by their economic preferences, not racial preferences".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy


As a side point, am I the only one who thinks that McGovern is something Ronald McDonald would do if elected president?
Bob K
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41 posted 05-03-2010 09:45 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I found the below quote in the same article that Mike took his quote from:

quote:

Modern appraisal in the Republican party

Few African Americans voted for Bush and other Republicans in the 2004 election, although it was a higher percentage than any GOP candidate since President Reagan. Following the re-election of President George W. Bush, Ken Mehlman, Bush's campaign manager and Chairman of the RNC, held several large meetings with African-American business, community, and religious leaders. In his speeches, he apologized for his party's use of the Southern Strategy in the past. When asked about the strategy of using race as an issue to build GOP dominance in the once-Democratic South, Mehlman replied, "Republican candidates often have prospered by ignoring black voters and even by exploiting racial tensions," and, "by the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African-American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out. Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."[30]



     Aside from the interesting way in which the quotes highlight different aspects and points of view on the subject, I wanted to say that I found Mike's quote particularly interesting.  I hadn't before been aware of the work that he was quoting from and I found it an interesting and a provocative point of view, personally, for me.  I don't know that it even has a political point of view so much as an intellectual slant, and it's one I simply hadn't considered.  Thanks, Mike.
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42 posted 05-03-2010 10:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You are welcome, Bob.

ON Friday, Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a law — SB 1070 — that prohibits the harboring of illegal aliens and makes it a state crime for an alien to commit certain federal immigration crimes. It also requires police officers who, in the course of a traffic stop or other law-enforcement action, come to a “reasonable suspicion” that a person is an illegal alien verify the person’s immigration status with the federal government.

Predictably, groups that favor relaxed enforcement of immigration laws, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, insist the law is unconstitutional. Less predictably, President Obama declared it “misguided” and said the Justice Department would take a look.

Presumably, the government lawyers who do so will actually read the law, something its critics don’t seem to have done. The arguments we’ve heard against it either misrepresent its text or are otherwise inaccurate. As someone who helped draft the statute, I will rebut the major criticisms individually:

It is unfair to demand that aliens carry their documents with them. It is true that the Arizona law makes it a misdemeanor for an alien to fail to carry certain documents. “Now, suddenly, if you don’t have your papers ... you’re going to be harassed,” the president said. “That’s not the right way to go.” But since 1940, it has been a federal crime for aliens to fail to keep such registration documents with them. The Arizona law simply adds a state penalty to what was already a federal crime. Moreover, as anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar documentation requirements.

“Reasonable suspicion” is a meaningless term that will permit police misconduct. Over the past four decades, federal courts have issued hundreds of opinions defining those two words. The Arizona law didn’t invent the concept: Precedents list the factors that can contribute to reasonable suspicion; when several are combined, the “totality of circumstances” that results may create reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed.

For example, the Arizona law is most likely to come into play after a traffic stop. A police officer pulls a minivan over for speeding. A dozen passengers are crammed in. None has identification. The highway is a known alien-smuggling corridor. The driver is acting evasively. Those factors combine to create reasonable suspicion that the occupants are not in the country legally.

The law will allow police to engage in racial profiling. Actually, Section 2 provides that a law enforcement official “may not solely consider race, color or national origin” in making any stops or determining immigration status. In addition, all normal Fourth Amendment protections against profiling will continue to apply. In fact, the Arizona law actually reduces the likelihood of race-based harassment by compelling police officers to contact the federal government as soon as is practicable when they suspect a person is an illegal alien, as opposed to letting them make arrests on their own assessment.

It is unfair to demand that people carry a driver’s license. Arizona’s law does not require anyone, alien or otherwise, to carry a driver’s license. Rather, it gives any alien with a license a free pass if his immigration status is in doubt. Because Arizona allows only lawful residents to obtain licenses, an officer must presume that someone who produces one is legally in the country.

State governments aren’t allowed to get involved in immigration, which is a federal matter. While it is true that Washington holds primary authority in immigration, the Supreme Court since 1976 has recognized that states may enact laws to discourage illegal immigration without being pre-empted by federal law. As long as Congress hasn’t expressly forbidden the state law in question, the statute doesn’t conflict with federal law and Congress has not displaced all state laws from the field, it is permitted. That’s why Arizona’s 2007 law making it illegal to knowingly employ unauthorized aliens was sustained by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

In sum, the Arizona law hardly creates a police state. It takes a measured, reasonable step to give Arizona police officers another tool when they come into contact with illegal aliens during their normal law enforcement duties.

And it’s very necessary: Arizona is the ground zero of illegal immigration. Phoenix is the hub of human smuggling and the kidnapping capital of America, with more than 240 incidents reported in 2008. It’s no surprise that Arizona’s police associations favored the bill, along with 70 percent of Arizonans.

President Obama and the Beltway crowd feel these problems can be taken care of with “comprehensive immigration reform” — meaning amnesty and a few other new laws. But we already have plenty of federal immigration laws on the books, and the typical illegal alien is guilty of breaking many of them. What we need is for the executive branch to enforce the laws that we already have.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration has scaled back work-site enforcement and otherwise shown it does not consider immigration laws to be a high priority. Is it any wonder the Arizona Legislature, at the front line of the immigration issue, sees things differently?

Kris W. Kobach, a law professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas City, was Attorney General John Ashcroft’s chief adviser on immigration law and border security from 2001 to 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/opinion/29kobach.html?th&emc=th


Interestingly enough, kidnapping wasn't one of the crimes listed in those graphs some of you are so proud of. Why? I would assume because of the rarity of it. It is not a crime American crooks prefer. It IS a favored crime in the latin world. More than 240 in one town in 2008? EPA!
Local Rebel
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43 posted 05-03-2010 10:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I would love to respond to that post Mike -- in the thread where it belongs!

Thanks...

c'ya tomorrow
rwood
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Tennessee


44 posted 05-04-2010 06:36 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Hey! Sometimes Reps & Dems prove to be pretty good together at facing down racism.


We had a KKK Grand Dragon living in our midst. He’d lead his despicable rallies in Newport. His biggest complaint, to the embarrassment of his parents, was that black people had moved in to the homes around him, depreciating the value of his home...err I mean his parent’s home, since he still lived there at the age of 32.

Not one single person from our community supported his racist efforts, including his parents.

By some strange happenstance, the city annexed the property for a new expressway right through the middle of their house. His parents collected the buy-out from the city and moved without leaving him any forwarding addy. LOL.

The Grand Dragon fought the bulldozer, and lost.

The whole town celebrated. Reps and Dems, all skin colors, alike.
Ringo
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Saluting with misty eyes


45 posted 05-04-2010 07:37 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
...since 1940, it has been a federal crime for aliens to fail to keep such registration documents with them. The Arizona law simply adds a state penalty to what was already a federal crime.

Actually, the exact statute is:
"(e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001304----000-.html

It seems to me that everyone who is screaming about this particular section of the Arizona law is screaming about the:
1)Current Administration, as it is still supporting that federal statute
2) A Democratic president that was in power when the statute was written
3)Rain falling on their parade, because trhey can.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE

Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


46 posted 05-04-2010 04:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ringo, stop confusing people with the facts. It hurts their feelings
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


47 posted 05-04-2010 05:01 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Ringo,

I think the issue is that legal citizens of the US will be forced to carry and present  documented evidence of their status or face being arrested not whether non- US citizens would be forced to carry documentation . The question should be:

Is it reasonable to demand that American citizens of a certain ethnic profile carry identification or face arrest?

In that light Obama’s statement makes more sense.

.
Denise
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48 posted 05-04-2010 08:18 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The links you've provided are meaningless, L.R. All groups or movements have some extreme elements on the fringes.

And there is no video or audio evidence of racial slurs or intentional spitting against the members of the Black Caucus, just unverified assertions. I think the reward by Andrew Breitbart is now up to a $100,000 donation to the United Negro College Fund for the production of such evidence.

Grinch, don't police usually ask people for ID during an encounter, whether a traffic stop, or a domestic violence call, suspected drug dealing, or when someone is suspected of some other infraction? What difference does their ethnicity have to do with it?

I think the only people worried about this are the ones who have no ID to produce in the event that they get stopped. They have a couple of choices. They can keep their noses clean, legally, so that they don't get stopped, or they can make plans now to return to Mexico or South America, if it is all such a strain on them.


Ringo
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Saluting with misty eyes


49 posted 05-04-2010 09:44 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Actually, Denise, I can attest to your statement with an event that happened this very night:

I was on my way home from work and was stopped by the police for speeding while talking on my cell phone through a work zone (He was sitting on a side street, and I passed him doing 55 in a 40... through a work zone that was closed down for the day).

After I pulled over (in a parking lot to keep him from hanging his buttocks out into traffic on a busy street (minor numbered highway), the first thing he did was walk up to me and ask, "May I see your papers?" (actually, it was lisence, insurance, registration).

I am about as lilly white in the skin as anyone can be without being transluscent, having better things to do on my time off than worship the holy Sol. I have a United States Marine Corps sticker, "My Son Is A Soldier" sticker, and "My Child Is An Honor Student At (name) Elementary School" (hispanic population- zero)on my car... I spoke perfectly unaccented American, looked at him through my spectacles with blue eyes, and scratched my light brown and grey hair as he wrote the ticket, and I was forced to provide the officer with some sort of proof of who I was.

Unless I am reading this completely wrong, I should now be able to sue the Pennsylvania State Police for violating my civil/constitutional rights for doing so? Or is that priveledge only reserved for those who don't look like they belong the the Antioch Babtist Church, Bar/Grill and Car Wash?


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE
 
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