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The Other 95%

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JenniferMaxwell
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0 posted 04-16-2010 01:47 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


"How is it that the angry and scared members of the radical fringe dominate the news cycle every night?

They scream about deficits and "outrageous taxes." Where were they when 3/4ths of our 10 trillion dollar debt was created by George W. Bush?

Meanwhile our country faces critical challenges in our infrastructure, education, economy and overall quality of life.

Taxes and government are an essential part of all of these. The answer isn't "big government" but effective government. And it's essential that we all pay our fair share. (This means citizens and corporations alike).

We are aware that government, like any big business, can involve corruption, but we also know that our government is just us - of, by and for The People.

Come join the growing movement to set the record straight and stand up for our country and our future!"
http://theother95.com/
Ringo
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1 posted 04-16-2010 08:21 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
We also know that our government is just us - of, by and for The People.

This government that you describe as "by, for, etc" passed a health care bill that- depending on which poll you read- was OPPOSED by between half or more of the "people".
Instead of cutting spending, the "people" are adding 11 new taxes over the next 3 years.
The "people" are taking it in the keester, and have to wait until November to do anything about it, and have to pray that there are no lame duck "people" who choose to leave a legacy.

Oh, btw... it is not the deficit that has most of the 9/12 organizations screaming... it is the lack of fiscal responsibility that is causing the ruckus... more taxes, more spending, bigger programs, and less cash in hand. I have never had a hassle in paying my taxes. In an economy run by small business (those that are still around) feeding the golden goose is a requirement. ALlowing that goose to gorge itself into stupidity is not.

When my economy took a sudden dive last year (the restaurant I was kitchen manager for closed its doors without warning) I did what every responsible parent does... I didn't go out and get a new car, I didn't buy new clothes, I didn't take the money I had and spend it on anything that wasn't keeping the lights on, the kids fed and their beds in the house.

The "people" that you talk about complained loudly that they had no money, and that the former residents left them with an overdrawn bank account, and then proceeded to spend how many trillions of dollars that they didn't have.

Is that enough of an explaination for you to understand why Republicans, Democrats, and Independants are gathering in droves to tell the "people" they are not amused?


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE
Balladeer
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2 posted 04-16-2010 08:30 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yep, that is what the government is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, now it's just a cliche.

When the government tells the majority of the people they don't care what they say or think, it ceases to be of, by or for.
JenniferMaxwell
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3 posted 04-16-2010 09:26 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

“Some basic facts:

Obama has passed 25 separate tax cuts.

Obama’s stimulus package included $300 billion in middle class tax cuts — one of the largest in history.
The recent healthcare reform law includes tax credits and savings for small businesses and working people.
Unlike President Bush’s 2001 tax cuts, which went to the wealthiest 2.2%, President Obama’s tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit working and middle class families — 95% of all Americans.
Here are some of the new tax credits available through the Recovery Act alone that you may be eligible for:

The Making Work Pay tax credit – Ninety-five percent of working families are already receiving the Recovery Act’s Making Work Pay tax credit of $400 for an individual or $800 for married couples filing jointly in their 2009 paychecks – and will continue to see these benefits in 2010.
Tax credits for college expenses – Families and students are eligible for up to $2,500 in tax savings under the American Opportunity Credit as well as enhanced benefits under 529 college savings plans, which help families and students pay for college expenses.

The Homebuyers tax credit – Homebuyers can get a credit – up to $8,000 for first-time home buyers and up to $6,500 for upgrade homebuyers – for homes under contract by April 30, 2010 and purchased by June 30, 2010 under the Homebuyer tax credit. Over 1.7 million households have already taken advantage of the First Time Homebuyers tax credit.

Tax credits for energy efficient renovations – Taxpayers are eligible for up to $1,500 in tax credits for making energy-efficient improvements to their homes, such as adding insulation and installing energy efficient windows.

The vehicle sales tax deduction – Taxpayers can deduct the state and local sales taxes they paid for new vehicles purchased from Feb. 17, 2009 through Dec. 31, 2009 under the vehicle sales tax deduction.

Expanded family tax credits – Moderate income families with children may be eligible for an increase in the Earned Income Tax Credit and the additional Child Tax Credit.

Tax-free unemployment benefits – Thanks to the Recovery Act, individuals who received unemployment insurance in 2009 do not have to pay taxes on the first $2,400 of such earnings.
Find out what tax cuts you may qualify for: Use the White House online tax calculator”
http://theother95.com/the-facts/
Denise
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4 posted 04-16-2010 09:45 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The Homebuyers tax credit – Homebuyers can get a credit – up to $8,000 for first-time home buyers and up to $6,500 for upgrade homebuyers – for homes under contract by April 30, 2010 and purchased by June 30, 2010 under the Homebuyer tax credit. Over 1.7 million households have already taken advantage of the First Time Homebuyers tax credit.

Tax credits for energy efficient renovations – Taxpayers are eligible for up to $1,500 in tax credits for making energy-efficient improvements to their homes, such as adding insulation and installing energy efficient windows.

The vehicle sales tax deduction – Taxpayers can deduct the state and local sales taxes they paid for new vehicles purchased from Feb. 17, 2009 through Dec. 31, 2009 under the vehicle sales tax deduction.

Expanded family tax credits – Moderate income families with children may be eligible for an increase in the Earned Income Tax Credit and the additional Child Tax Credit.

Tax-free unemployment benefits – Thanks to the Recovery Act, individuals who received unemployment insurance in 2009 do not have to pay taxes on the first $2,400 of such earnings.


These tax credits/deductions are limited to certain groups of people: those buying homes, those lucky enough to be able to afford to make energy-efficient upgrades to their homes, those with qualifying children and those who are unemployed for a small percentage of their benefits. And sales tax deductions can only be utilized by those who have enough deductions to exceed the standardized deduction.
Bob K
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5 posted 04-17-2010 12:39 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Yes, Denise.

     And the tax cuts that President Bush passed were for whom?

     You point out that these things are ways of putting economic theory into practice, I suspect.  Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I think so.  Because, of course, neither example gave money directly to you.

     Each tried to stimulate the economy in the way it thought most effective.  

     The Bush Tax cuts put the economy into recession because they were pumping money into the economy at a further remove from where people were actually spending it.  There were times when such a move would have been much more effective, I think, but this was not one of them.  In this case the money didn't stay at home and a lot of it went into savings, and that was not what the economy needed.  When the marginal tax rate was much higher, the situation would have been and was different, during the sixties, for example.

     The Obama tax cuts put money into the economy at the places where it was less likely to be saved and more likely to be spent immediately, putting money into the economy at somewhat greater velocity, and speeding things up a bit.  We still need more jobs — a lot more jobs.  But the economic indicators that were noseediving during the last couple of years of the Bush administration are turning around.

     I'd like to see things a lot better, mind you.

     But your sour grapes comments about the Obama tax cuts are in the face of an improving economy.
Denise
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6 posted 04-17-2010 06:03 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The Bush tax cuts, Bob, which are due to expire at the end of this year, apply to all wage earners who pay federal taxes. And yes, people tended to save as much of it as they could for a rainy day. Today people tend to spend the Bush tax cuts and the Obama tax credits because that rainy day is here, otherwise they'd be saving now too.

Sour grapes comments about Obama's tax cuts? Why would you characterize my comments that way?

Obama's tax cuts, as you call them, are not tax cuts. They are targeted tax credits, that benefit some people.

I hope you are right about the economy but I'm not seeing it.

Balladeer
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7 posted 04-17-2010 07:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

In this case the money didn't stay at home and a lot of it went into savings,
Please supply some proof of that, Bob.

Yes, we see a lot of numbers crunching and spinning on how the economy is improving and yet unemployment insurance keeps getting extended because people can't find jobs, the unemployment rate continues not to go down, thousands more each month apply for unemployment benefits and foreclosures continue to soar. Sell the "economy is improving" spin to these people....
Bob K
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8 posted 04-17-2010 02:35 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     OK, Mike.


     The first reference is good overall.  In case you miss the point you requested backup on, I've excerpted the paragraph underneath.  The last sentence in the paragraph is the one that's the one that's relevant to our discussion here.  There's a generally assumed logic to the statement, which is that you don't get wealthy by spending your own money if you can help it.  And that the people that do spend their own money are the folks that have to, that is, the people who don't have much choice in the matter; those at the bottom of the heap.  Risks are better when you can get other people to take them for you.

     The whole paper is an eye-opener, and quite neutral.  It also talks about how the Bush tax cuts lost the country about 25 cents for every dollar we gave to the rich.  First the general reference, then the quotation.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2116


Zandi also examined an alternative stimulus package and found it would have yielded far more short-term demand — $1.20 for each $1 of cost — and thus have generated significantly more economic and job growth.  The alternative package would have put more money into the hands of those who immediately spend it — low- and middle-income Americans — through tax cuts targeted on this group, greater temporary unemployment benefits, and more federal fiscal relief to states to lessen state budget cuts and tax increases.  As noted, the federal tax cuts that were enacted are heavily skewed toward high-income households, who are much less likely than other households to spend their tax cuts quickly.  (They are more likely to save their tax cuts.) [Boldface supplied by Bob]


http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/study-bush-tax-cuts-cost-more-twice-m

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/bush-tax-cut-mythology/


Ron
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9 posted 04-17-2010 03:58 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
There's a generally assumed logic to the statement, which is that you don't get wealthy by spending your own money if you can help it.

You know what they say about assumptions, Bob?
nakdthoughts
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10 posted 04-17-2010 04:52 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Bob, if you think the economy is improving just visit a mall or several malls and see all the empty stores. The only ones still open are the larger dept style stores that hold the mall together and the teenage stores  like "hot topic" since they expect the  teens to  be the bigger spenders...

closed stores,  less jobs, more unemployment and those are for the  less expensive paid jobs that the young people, elderly who need to supplement there social security and those without college educations use to work at.

My husband just became unemployed...you are only seeing the drop off of those whose unemployment has already run out, not all those still losing jobs daily.

With every city and town and state complaining of not enough revenue coming in ( between company losses from those not having enough money to order from them) and not evenough taxes being collected with people  not having wages..show me where the economy is improving.

M
Ringo
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11 posted 04-17-2010 11:07 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Actually, the economy getting better is- in my neck of the woods, anyhow- a complete and total myth.
While I currently am employed (and we won't get into how long it took me to find one, and why I was unemployed in the first place), I have numerous of my friends who are either 1) not employed 2) begging they don't become unemployed 3) watching those they work with lose their jobs and praying they aren't next.
Even my employers have put their employees on a guarantee. I am the service tech at the Oreck Clean Home Center in Allentown, Pa. I am paid based on the number of services I perform, and the number of sales I make when the floor gets busy enough to require my presence. The owners have placed every employee in all 6 of their stores on guarantee that if our paychecks start to fall beneath a certain level, we are guaranteed at least our average to date... even if we are due 1/2 of that amount. Their reasoning? Sales are starting to fall off significantly.

We have had, within the last few months, 4 houses on my street- over the space of 2 miles or so- go into foreclosure.
The local water/sewage company (city owned) is allowing people a 1 time deferrment (3 months) on paying their quarterly bill, and is making payment arrangements with anyone who cannot pay the bills... including re-connecting the ones who have had their water shut off for non-payment.

We are having businesses fall away at an alarming rate.

My former band is watching their audiences (normally some of the largest the various clubs get) dwindle to the point where they have lost (in the last 6 months) several venues they used to play at. And they are not the only ones. More venues are going to DJ's or no entertainment at all because they are required to pay my band a minimum that is substancially more than a DJ would make, and no one is going out due to the lack of disposable cash.
Several full-time bands, playing 5-6 nights a week and providing the musicians with their only source of income are dropping to weekend bands because venues cannot afford the entertainment costs during the week.

One of the local volunteer fire companies has reported that their annual Easter Flower Sale to raise money yielded just over 1/3 less in sales than they did this point last year.

I know for a fact that the majority of the locals are still waiting for some sort of upswing. Other threads talk about the 9/12 commissions (TEA baggers) being Republicans with a sour grapes attitude and a complex against the fact that they lost the plotical fight... the organization I belong to is 47 strong, and as of last night included 9 full-blown, card carrying
Democrats, a few of whom who couldn't care less about the taxes, or the health cre bill, or anything... they are adding their voice to those who want something done about the economy.

A better economy, in my not so humble opinion, would normally involve... uh... well, I don't know, but not this.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE

Bob K
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12 posted 04-18-2010 01:55 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     A better economy would probably involve higher employment and better real wages, to start.  I'm not a good enough economist to know if protective tariffs would help, but I suspect they would; also higher quality in domestic goods would help as well, so that folks wouldn't feel that they were being cheated every time they bought an American car, for example, and lost money on the resale value and had the thing fall apart pre-maturely.

     A proud and loyal market shouldn't be treated like a market of suckers, as we were for so many years by Detroit.  I'd rather buy American, all other things being equal.

     Decent pay for decent work is a pretty good ideal, I've always felt.
Bob K
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13 posted 04-18-2010 02:13 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     In addition, the Bush tax cuts lost the country money. About 25 cents for each dollar of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy vanished out of the economy.  Not only did we give the Wealthy folks huge tax cuts, but it cost us billions and billions and billions of dollars to do so; much of which we were silly enough to borrow from China, and which we must now pay back to China with interest.

     Of the money we actually gave to the super wealthy, we lost 25% of it because it never went back into the economy.

     The references are the ones I cited above.  Please feel free to check them out.

     Of the money that we have given to the lower income folks under Presidenrt Obama, the country actually makes it back plus about 20% added to the economy in the first year.  Lower income folks, apparently actually spend the money, and keep it in circulation.  They're a much better economic policy investment for this sort of thing when the tax rates aren't up around the 80% level and higher for the super rich, as they were in the late 50s and early 60s.
Balladeer
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14 posted 04-18-2010 07:54 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I'd rather buy American, all other things being equal.

Me, too, Bob. Problem is that all other things are not equal, such as price and quality.

So when Bush gave tax cuts, it didn't help the economy because people saved it but, when Obama give tax cuts, it helps the economy, because people spend it. Got it.

Grinch
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15 posted 04-18-2010 10:33 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
So when Bush gave tax cuts, it didn't help the economy because people saved it but, when Obama give tax cuts, it helps the economy, because people spend it. Got it.


Although that’s correct Mike it isn’t the whole story, the tax cuts under Bush also reduced revenue more and therefore increased the deficit more than Obama’s cuts.

But I’m glad you’ve finally ‘got it’.


Balladeer
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16 posted 04-18-2010 11:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I 'got it', alright.
Denise
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17 posted 04-18-2010 02:06 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And for the rest of the story, Obama's spending has produced the largest projected deficits in history.
Grinch
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18 posted 04-18-2010 04:28 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

The whole story Denise?

According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office the 2009 deficit was projected to be $1.2 trillion on January 7, 2009 – that’s the last estimate before Obama took office.

Are you blaming Obama for the debt he inherited Denise?

Perhaps you’re only blaming him for the debt he’s added, but that would be a little harsh bearing in mind that he’s had the biggest recession in recent history to deal with and yet he’s still managed to add less to the deficit  than Bush and Reagan.

Could you expand on your claim, with some figures perhaps?

.
Bob K
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19 posted 04-18-2010 04:50 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

    


     If that's sarcasm I detect, Mike, you may not have gotten it at all.  

     Perhaps you think that The Tax Cuts were supposed to help the economy in some other way.  I've never quite understood how.  But since you apparently understand enough to be able to be sarcastic about my explanation, perhaps you could give me the official Rerpublican Party explanation, which you may believe is somehow different  than the one I ventured?  I'm waiting with bated breath.
Denise
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20 posted 04-18-2010 04:54 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I didn't say it was the whole story, Grinch, and I don't blame him for any deficit that he inherited. Where did I say that? I blame him for the debt that he is recklessly creating since he took office.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/05/past-deficits-vs-obamas-deficits-in-pictures/
Grinch
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21 posted 04-18-2010 06:32 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

I need a reference for comparison Denise. How does Obama compare with other Presidents?

Has Obama added more to the deficit than, say, Bush?

.
Denise
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22 posted 04-18-2010 06:52 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The link I provided has a graph going back to 2000.

*spelling correction*

[This message has been edited by Denise (04-18-2010 07:52 PM).]

Denise
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23 posted 04-18-2010 07:48 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And this article has statistics comparing Reagan's deficits with Obama's deficits:

quote:

First off, know these crucial facts: The deficit under Ronald Reagan increased 35 percent, from an inherited deficit (from President Jimmy Carter) of $104 billion in 1980 to a final deficit of $141 billion in 1989. The deficit peaked at $236 billion in 1983, particularly because of the plummet in tax revenue during the recession. It began dropping steadily in 1986, continuing through the 1987 crash. (Source: Congressional Budget Office figures, “Historical Tables.”)

Compare that to what’s happening now, where the direct opposite of Reaganomics is being pursued by the liberal Democratic president and congressional leadership:

President Obama inherited a record Bush deficit of $400 billion, but is generating a far worse $1.8-trillion deficit in his first year. (Source: Congressional Budget Office, March 20, 2009.) We’ve never seen anything like this. This unthinkable explosion is a direct result of the stunning government spending unleashed by Mr. Obama and the Democratic leadership in just eight weeks — an unheard of development in 233 years of American history.

So, think about this:

Ronald Reagan increased the deficit by 35 percent in eight years, whereas Barack Obama has increased the deficit by 450 percent in eight weeks. Reagan created an extra $37 billion in annual deficit. Mr. Obama has already created an extra $1.4 trillion in annual deficit.



http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/08/commentary/op-eds/doc49dc346bbf48d283993706 .txt
Denise
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24 posted 04-18-2010 08:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Interesting information on the Other 95 group:
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/04/18/is-the-obama-administration-behind-an-astroturf-anti-tea-party-website/
 
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