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Kennedy Space Center

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Balladeer
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0 posted 03-31-2010 12:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


A curious thing just happened. I got a call from a friend of mine in Orlando. She is concerned be cause Kennedy Space Center is closing down. She is concerned because of her loss of income. health benefits, etc. According to her, 23,000 people will be out of jobs. Almost half will be let go in June, followed by the rest in October. The interesting thing is that I can find no mention of it anywhere, even in this all-encompassing world of the Internet. If necessary, I will call her for more details but I'm wondering if anyone else has heard anything about this.
JenniferMaxwell
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1 posted 03-31-2010 01:12 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


From the archives:
http://www.space.com/news/050708_ksc_aftershuttle.html
Balladeer
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2 posted 03-31-2010 01:17 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you, Jennefer. I'll study that. Mucho appreciado
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3 posted 03-31-2010 01:21 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html

This shows scheduled launches for 2010-2011. I'm wondering how they are going to do that by laying off the workforce.
Grinch
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4 posted 03-31-2010 01:22 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Mike,

That’s weird!

I was reading an article yesterday about the expected lay offs, I’ll try to dig it out but from memory around 9000 jobs will be directly at risk but 23,000 people in total are likely to be affected when ancillary services are taken into account.

.
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5 posted 03-31-2010 01:27 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Here you go, I’d bookmarked it.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/science-technology/-US-Space-Shuttle-Program-Nears-End-of-its-Voyage-88465982.html

I can’t guarantee any of the facts in the article – I haven’t checked any other sources – but it sort of matches what your friend told you.

.
Balladeer
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6 posted 03-31-2010 01:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, it does. I thank you, sir.
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7 posted 04-02-2010 07:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1421;_ylt=Age1aIDv4s3gz.oDbfrPUigEq594;_ylu=X3oDMTM0YnFuN20yBGFzc2V0A3luZXdzLzIwMTAwNDAyL3luZXdzX3RzMTQyMQRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzMEcG 9zAzMEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNjb3VudGRvd250b2E-
Balladeer
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8 posted 04-13-2010 01:29 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I'm getting more confused by this whole thing. I saw on the news today where our astronauts are taking their final trip around the space shuttle, due to our closing of NASA programs and any necessary trips in the future will mean that we will have to pay Russia to take us there. Can that be true?

grinch, I think you are very knowledgeable about these things. Can you help me out here?
Grinch
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9 posted 04-13-2010 03:49 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

What do you want to know Mike?

NASA has had a contract with the Russian Federal Space Agency for the past couple of years to use the soyuz spacecraft, partly as an emergency backup and partly as a lower cost alternative to ferry astronauts and cargo to the international space station.

The space shuttle program is at the end of life and the options were to develop a replacement, pull out of space exploration entirely or extend the contract with the Russians and maintain a halfway house approach.

The current administration have gone down the halfway house route and extended the ISS contract through to 2014, it was originally set to expire in 2013. Under the old contract it cost $26 million per astronaut per trip under the new contract it’ll cost $55 million. The total cost of the extension is $335 million.

I don’t mind the Russian contract – it was inevitable to bridge the gap between the space shuttle and a viable replacement - I think that the decision to put the development of a replacement on hold is a mistake though. Ironically the reason I’d fund it is for the same reasons I’d fund research into bees and electric cars and why I argued that they weren’t pork in the stimulus bill – they all stimulate the consumer spending conveyor belt that powers your economy. The bonus with the space program is that it’s a high tech high profile area that not only sparks useable technological offshoots and expands our knowledge it also instils a great deal of national pride.

My argument would be that if you are going to inject massive amounts of funds into the economy then space exploration is as good, if not a better, place to spend your money.

Hope that helps.

.
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10 posted 04-13-2010 06:57 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

We should be hearing more about the programs after Thursday's conference.


"President Obama to Host Space Conference in Florida in April

WASHINGTON – On April 15, President Barack Obama will visit Florida to host a White House Conference on the Administration’s new vision for America’s future in space, the White House today announced.

The President, along with top officials and other space leaders, will discuss the new course the Administration is charting for NASA and the future of U.S. leadership in human space flight.  Specifically, the conference will focus on the goals and strategies in this new vision, the next steps, and the new technologies, new jobs, and new industries it will create.   Conference topics will include the implications of the new strategy for Florida, the nation, and our ultimate activities in space.

Further logistical details will be announced as they become available.

After an independent review panel found that the previous program to return astronauts to the Moon was fundamentally un-executable, the President included an additional $6 billion for NASA in his FY2011 budget over the next five years. This funding will help us achieve our boldest aspirations in space.   The President’s ambitious new strategy pushes the frontiers of innovation to set NASA on a more dynamic, flexible, and sustainable trajectory that can propel us on a new journey of innovation and discovery.

The President and the NASA Administrator both believe that we have to be forward thinking and aggressive in our pursuit of new technologies to take us beyond low-Earth orbit.  The President’s plan does this.

A foundational element of this new strategy is to invest in the development of a targeted set of inter-related technologies and capabilities that can help us travel from the Earth’s cradle to our nearby Solar System neighborhood in a more effective and affordable way, thus laying the foundation to support journeys to the Moon, asteroids, and eventually to Mars.    

After years of underinvestment in new technology and unrealistic budgeting, the President’s plan will unveil an ambitious plan for NASA that sets the agency on a reinvigorated path of space exploration."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-host-space-conference-florida-april
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11 posted 04-13-2010 08:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thanks, grinch. Yes, that helps. Thank you also, Jennifer. I will be anxious to see what Obama's ambitious plan is. I think the Florida people, especially the ones soon to be unemployed, will, too.
Local Rebel
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12 posted 04-13-2010 11:37 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Mike?  You're not in favor of privatizing space flight?
Balladeer
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13 posted 04-14-2010 07:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I've had no particular thoughts on it one way or another, nor have I expressed any opinions in this thread. I had simply been unaware that Kennedy was closing down and asked for info.
JenniferMaxwell
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14 posted 04-14-2010 02:38 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

NASA Would Revive Orion Capsule Under Obama’s Plan (Update1)

"Obama’s NASA plan would create 2,500 jobs more than the Constellation program in the area around Kennedy Space Center by 2012, and would invest $40 million for economic development of Florida’s Space Coast region, the official said."
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-14/nasa-would-revive-capsule-and-build-new-rocket-under-obama-plan.html
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15 posted 04-14-2010 04:38 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

This is going to send this thread into another direction, and I sincerely apoligize, Mike; however, there is a question that is nagging me about this entire thing:
quote:
"Obama’s NASA plan would create 2,500 jobs more than the Constellation program in the area around Kennedy Space Center by 2012, and would invest $40 million for economic development of Florida’s Space Coast region, the official said."

We are in debt to the tune of whatever it is this week trillions, there have been promises of no new taxes on the middle class (the rich being massacred with an eventual 60% and the poor/unemployed paying none), health care is costing whatever trillions/billions/whatever, tax revenue is down by howevermany billions....
Where in the name of Thor's Holy Hammer is this $40 million coming from, and how is a measley $40 million going to do anything at all?

Does anyone have any facts? I am not looking for an argument about the taxes, or the 9/12 commissions, or the accusations from either side of the aisle. I am simply looking for the proof that such a small amount is going to do anything to stimulate the economy when it took $780 billion to attempt it before, and where is the cash coming from?

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, "WHAT A RIDE

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16 posted 04-14-2010 06:21 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Look in the mirror, Ringo.
Grinch
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17 posted 04-14-2010 06:59 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
where is the cash coming from?


China.

.
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18 posted 04-14-2010 07:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

and who pays it back? Look in the mirror, Ringo.
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19 posted 04-14-2010 09:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

After dominating space for a half century, the U.S. is mired in a political fight that threatens its leadership role and ambitions for manned exploration.

President Barack Obama travels Thursday to the Kennedy Space Center to try to salvage his plans to re-energize the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, but experts say U.S. manned space travel will likely be grounded for years longer than previously expected.

The Florida summit comes amid an escalating battle between the White House and Congress over the fastest and least expensive way to revitalize the space program. Mr. Obama has been pushing ambitious plans for start-up companies to ferry astronauts into space on private rockets. Congress, meanwhile, is bent on defending NASA's traditional rocket and spacecraft programs, which the Obama administration wants to kill.

But lawmakers, industry officials and scientists say they fear that for the first time since the glory days of the Apollo moon landings, the U.S. will end up without a clear plan, destination and timetable for sending astronauts deeper into the solar system.

At stake is more than national pride. Losing the lead in space has national-security and industrial consequences. Such industries as shipping, airlines and oil exploration depend on orbiting satellites to gather and send essential data. TV signals, cell phones, ATMs, some credit card machines and many Internet connections rely on space technology. Recent estimates peg global civilian and military spending on space and space-related technologies at more than $260 billion annually.

At the same time, the Pentagon views space as a frontier where foes will try to undermine U.S. security.

The importance of space has drawn the European Union and more countries into the race. Russia, China, India and Brazil all have, or are determined to create, robust space programs. By 2016, China aims to develop and test a heavy-lift booster capable of blasting five tons of cargo into orbit—a timetable far more ambitious than anything on NASA's drawing board.

With retirement of the space shuttle in a few months, the U.S. was already facing the prospect of hitching rides for up to five years on Russian spacecraft to reach the international space station.

Some experts say the current political fight could leave the U.S. with no way to blast astronauts deeper into space until close to 2020. Initial optimistic hopes of returning U.S. astronauts to the moon by the end of the decade could be delayed another ten years or more, these experts say.
[URL=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304159304575184362846131730.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wsj%2Fxml%2Frss %2F3_]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304159304575184362846131730.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wsj%2Fxml%2Frs s%2F3_[/URL]  7011+%28WSJ.com%3A+What%27s+News+US%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
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20 posted 04-15-2010 08:31 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama tries to get support of space plan off ground
By Bart Jansen and Todd Halvorson, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — President Obama might find himself in hostile territory Thursday when he delivers a major space policy speech to NASA workers whose jobs are threatened by his plans to abandon a manned mission to the moon.

Congressional lawmakers and others have accused the president of ceding the country's leadership role in space exploration by proposing to kill the Constellation program. Thousands of NASA workers — including many at Kennedy Space Center, where Obama will speak — will lose their jobs if Congress approves that proposal and if the space shuttle program ends as planned by early next year.

In his speech today, Obama will detail a revised plan to develop a smaller version of NASA's Orion spacecraft, the crew capsule that had been part of the return-to-the-moon program, the White House announced Tuesday. The scaled-back capsule would be used for an emergency crew escape at the International Space Station, eliminating the need to buy Russian spacecraft for that purpose.

That would mostly offset the possible job losses at Kennedy Space Center and would save some other threatened NASA jobs around the country.
.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2010-04-15-obama-nasa-plan_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomWashington-TopStories+%28Ne ws+-+Washington+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
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21 posted 04-15-2010 08:44 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama: America's still got adventures in space
AP

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – Near the launch pads where U.S. space voyages begin, President Barack Obama will try to reassure workers that America's space adventures sail on despite the coming end of space shuttle flights.

And Obama on Thursday will also try to explain why he aborted his predecessor's return-to-the moon plan in favor of a complicated system of public-and-private flights that would go elsewhere in space, with details still to be worked out.

It's a tough sell. So Obama is bringing deal sweeteners with him to Kennedy Space Center, pitching work that will save jobs, provide training for others and extend the life of the International Space Station.

Obama will outline a strategy that "will provide more jobs for the area, greater investment in innovation, more astronaut time in space, more rockets launching sooner, and a more ambitious and sustainable space program for America's future," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

The Obama space plan relies on private companies to fly to the space station, giving them almost $6 billion to build their own rockets and ships. It also extends the space station's life by five years and puts billions into research to eventually develop new government rocket ships for future missions to a nearby asteroid, the moon, Martian moons or other points in space. Those stops would be stepping stones on an eventual mission to Mars.

After Discovery lands, there are just three more shuttle flights, a retirement ordered by then-President George W. Bush in 2004 to pay for the return-to-the-moon mission, dubbed "Apollo on steroids." This year, Obama canceled the moon mission, called Constellation, saying it was not sustainable and was long underfunded. But to Armstrong, Lovell and Cernan this was killing more than a moon program, but the entire American manned space program.

"Without the skill and experience that actual spacecraft operation provides, the USA is far too likely to be on a long downhill slide to mediocrity," the three Apollo veterans wrote in a letter to the media. "America must decide if it wishes to remain a leader in space."

To counter, the administration brought out Armstrong's Apollo 11 crewmate Buzz Aldrin, who in a statement said, "The steps we will be taking in following the president's direction will best position NASA and other space agencies to ultimately send humans to Mars and other exciting destinations as quickly as possible."

Earlier this week, the administration said it would rescue a small part of the moon program: its Orion crew capsule. But instead of taking four astronauts to the moon, the not-yet-built Orion will be slimmed down and used as an emergency escape pod on the space station.

. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100415/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_space

Sounds like more of "Are you going to believe what you see or what I tell you?" rhetoric or, as Pelosi remarked, "he promised a lot of things".
Denise
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So what seems to be the near-term net jobs lost or jobs gained for the folks at the Space Center?
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23 posted 04-16-2010 06:14 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I have no idea, Denise. I listened to the speech yesterday and was confused over that. From the looks of the audience, they were, too, although they applauded on cue since their jobs lie in Obama's hands.

He spoke of how plans of his would actually create jobs in the area, but gave few specifics. One NASA engineer    said afterward that he could find no specifics, either. Obama spoke of different ways of doing things but did not show how these things would be done and the engineer said they couldn't be done the way Obama described them.

Does Obama have good plans or was the speech little more than CYA after the outrage of the closings came to his ear? The only way to find out is to see what happens in July when 1/2 of the workforce is due to be let go. SHould that happen, I doubt he will hear any applause.
 
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