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Passions in Poetry

A Plea For Sanity

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JenniferMaxwell
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150 posted 04-02-2010 11:15 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Stop watching Fox News and listening to dim bulbs like Bachmann, it will rot your brain out.

"I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then when somebody comes up act like they just woke up and go, 'What was THAT?!'" - Jack Handey

Anyway, back to the gavel. The gavel Pelosi carried was the one used when the Medicare bill was passed. Carrying it as she left the final Dem caucus was a symbolic gesture showing she had the votes for passage of HCR. It was a signal - Dems knew what it meant. If she’d gone through the tunnel we wouldn’t have seen it and had a chance to party before the Pugs filled up the pubs weeping bitters into their pints.
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151 posted 04-03-2010 01:53 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

She reminds me of Thor.
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152 posted 04-03-2010 02:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Are you referring to Pelosi or Jennifer, Ess?
JenniferMaxwell
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153 posted 04-03-2010 03:05 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Well, Ess, perhaps Pelosi would find the comparison amusing, flattering even.
Personally, I'd kind of like to have it as my PiP avatar.  
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/9/97/THOR_GIRL.jpg
Bob K
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154 posted 04-03-2010 03:51 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

I do know that she did it as a provocative gesture, obviously uncaring as to whether it would set off anything or not. Her "strut" was more important to her than any repercussions it could cause.




     What is the source of your "knowledge," Mike?

       I would suggest to you that, since it appears your "knowledge" can have no other source than a secret pipeline into Speaker Pelosi's brain, unless you have some direct quote from her saying that your assumption is correct, that you are indulging in a bout of mind-reading.

     Your conclusions, based on your skill at mindreading, are also somewhat suspect..

     This doesn't mean you are wrong.  How would I know?  It does mean that you'd need actually to base them on hard data before you could make assertions with anything like the confidence you seem to show here.

     Not that I object, in this case, since we are talking about a Plea for Sanity, and it seems to me that the discussion should be able to cover most anything as long as it's done in a rational and sane fashion, but what is the connection between this and the incidents with Rep. Cleaver and Rep. Frank and so on?  Is it part of the same  series or is it a separate incident entirely?

     Is this incident caught on video, with sound, or not?  And so on?
JenniferMaxwell
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155 posted 04-03-2010 04:08 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Here you go Bob, a link showing the Pelosi "strut". Characterizing it as a "strut" seems a bit of a stretch, but hey...whatever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYNV08ufTRI
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156 posted 04-03-2010 04:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Bob, it's not mind-reading. It's more like mind-using. Pelosi decided not to use the standard path through the tunnel but directly through the protesters with gavel held in fron of her. One doesn't need to be either a mind reader or Sherlock Holmes to deduce her intent. One only needs to be a mind user. Pretend she is Bush. That should change your mind

Still waiting for an answer as to whether you consider it feasible that a continued chant, with the N word being used 15 times, would not reasonably be captured by at least one Video recorder or listening device. Surely the chant alone would draw reporters, wouldn't it?
JenniferMaxwell
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157 posted 04-03-2010 05:25 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Pretend she is Bush."

"Bring 'em on"

A swagger strut across the USS Lincoln - AWOL in Top Gun gear.



Bob K
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158 posted 04-03-2010 06:29 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The press is distinct from the Pazarazzi, Mike.  They don't mob the politicians wherever they go.  That's why politicians call press conferences and tell editors where to send the cameras and the sound people, so they can have the cameras set up in advance, and have the sound systems set up, and they can get good pictures and good sound.

     Where stories break, say between places where one would expect something to happen, the presence of press is catch as catch can.  They may be there, they may not.  If they're there, they may have the cameras on, and they may not.  Were there any press covering this particular stroll at all?  Was there any tape at all of this particular progress.  If so, who was there?  Were they there during the alleged incident.  What do they say?

     For that matter, was Fox news with the politiciaqns during the Cleaver walk in which the alleged chanting took place.  If they were, then you would clearly have film of the incident NOT happening.  If they were not there, why were they not there?  That would liikely be the same reason other press people were not there as well.  My thinking, that they expected that there would be vanishingly little chance of a story appearing there, and thought that being there would be a waste of their time and money.  I might be wrong about that.

     So in answer to your question, for the reasons I have just gone into, I think it is very likely there was no press around to take video, and that of the protestors, nobody was thrilled enough to step forward with any video they might have taken, since it does not make they look good, and for the Congress folk, I suspect that it was too scary a situation to allow them to do much good thinking, though I couldn't say for sure.

     Is that a straighforward enough answer for you?
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159 posted 04-03-2010 06:32 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     And no, mind user doesn't work here.  You're assuming that press was close enough to hear and quick enough to respond.  Too many assumptions.  You still appear to be mind reading.  You still do not appear to be offering evidence.
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160 posted 04-03-2010 11:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Bob, it is not straightforward at all, although I'm sure it is to you. A mob with continued chants of a racial slur would not go unnoticed. I realize you cannot admit that because that would blow the possibility of it not happening so that's fine with me. You inhabit your world where something that newsworthy would not be seen and I'll inhabit mine where cameras and sound devices are everywhere congressmen gather.
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161 posted 04-04-2010 03:26 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     If they were everywhere Congressfolk gathered, they'd be inside half the dinner parties and restaurants in Washington, or clustered like flies outside on the off chance of something happening.  Where were the film clips from Fox news showing the uneventful progress of Congressfolk that they claim happened, if what you say is true actually is true.  They should have wasted film everywhere.  They should have reporters rushing forward to say, I was there, personally.  I saw the whole thing and nothing like the Democrats claim actually happened.

     That would support your theory, Mike.    That is where the logic lies.  If it's logical that the press follows congress everywhere, as you say, then there would be press witnesses, film and sound recordings of the whole thing not happening, in fact of the whole progress.

     There's where your actual logic lies.
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162 posted 04-04-2010 04:00 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

In this age of electronics, when virtually everyone has a camera, cell phone, or video recorder, Bob, if those chants happened, they'd be splashed across the internet for all the world to see and hear. We wouldn't just be reading unsubstaniated allegations.

And I can't believe that there were no professional news organizations positioned near the foot of the Capitol, that day of all days. The absence of any incident captured by the news media on camera doesn't mean that the news media were not there. It could quite likely mean that there were no incidents to capture.
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163 posted 04-04-2010 08:57 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0UIUdDMbeU

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164 posted 04-04-2010 09:39 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...and of course no paparazzi or right-winger would be concerned about not collecting the 100 grand reward. Paparazzis have too much class and right-wingers are all rich.

So Bob says if it didn't happen there would be video showing it didn't happen. How does one argue with logic like that?

"I refer you to the curious incident of the dog barking at midnight....."
JenniferMaxwell
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165 posted 04-04-2010 01:55 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Teabaggers need to stop and think for a change.

The crowd was mostly teabaggers. Does it seem likely they’d post a video showing one of their own pack of vipers hurling racial insults at a civil rights hero?  And should they actually find the reward too tempting to refuse, do you honestly think Breitbart would release the video after he paid for it?  Like duh

Anyway, the slurs directed at Barney Frank and the spitting incident were both captured on video, the death threats against members of Congress and their families were captured on audio as well as in written form intercepted by the Capitol police. Rather strange the teabaggers have nothing to say about those events.  So typical, what has and can be proven they sweep under the rug. More of the same, nothing to see here, move along folks attitude left over from the Bush Administration.
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166 posted 04-04-2010 01:59 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Sick thinking:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36316
JenniferMaxwell
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167 posted 04-04-2010 06:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OERxYJFYW4&feature=related
Bob K
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168 posted 04-04-2010 06:23 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     My logic is very straightforward.

     I believe that video and sound recording of congress is 1) only sporadic; 2)requires a certain amount of skill to pull off; and, 3) is not financially possible at all times and in all places.

     Therefore, it doesn't happen constantly and there are huge gaps in the record.

     You believe; 1) that the recording goes on all the time, and that it goes on everyplace that congress as a whole or individuals or groups of congressmen go; 3) that there is high quality video and sound available of everything they do.

     If your assumptions are correct, then there is a visual and sound record of everything that went on with the Cleaver party; that the detainment is on record; that it can be proven by examination of this record — which by your assumptions would suggest has to exist — whether or not the incident as described by the Cleaver party actually happened.

     My assumptions would say that this may not be possible at all, that there could well be gaps in the record for very good reasons, as I have previously discussed.

     Your assumptions say that the record has to exist.  It must exist.

     Therefore, your folks, Fox news, or their friends at The Right Wing Side of the demonstration must, according to your assumptions, have available records of this available.  By looking through these records, it should be possible to prove that Congressman Cleaver is a lier, then, shouldn't it?

     Not from my assumptions, Mike, from yours, since you insist that such a record exists.

     So where is it, Mike?

     If your assumptions are correct, all you have to do is produce enough continuous tape to cover that single party during that brief walk, right?  

     I say, it's likely that no such record exists.  You say it does and that it must.  

     So show it.  It'll quiet down the whole issue.  It will still leave you with the other issues that Jennifer mentioned, which we can put aside for now, but this issue we shoiuld be able to put aside.  

     Produce this tape that you insist exists.  Produce this high quality, news grade tape that you insist exists, and demonstate the superiority of your assumption here.  Of course, you realize that for your assumption to prove true, every action of these people at all times has to be on tape, and that in order to prove mine, only occasional lapses need be proven.

     But then, I didn't take the incredibly unlikely end of this proposition, Mike, Did I?

     You're the one who insisted that all this stuff had to be on tape, opening you up to a demand that the tape be produced from the Fox folks who are presumably sure that such things happen because they MUST DO IT THEMSELVES, in order to make a sweeping assertion with any degree of certainty.  Where is the Fox Tape?  Where is the Tape from the TEA Party crowd?

     I would say that such tape wouldn't necessarily exist, mind you, because I took the parrt of the proposition that seemed like a rational proposal.

     You, on the other hand, took the position that was most unlikely and hardest to prove.

     And you suggest I'm being irrational.

     Look in your mirror, Friend, before you try to take the side of the proposal that has the smallest sign of logic to recommend it.
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169 posted 04-04-2010 06:25 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I guess you missed my sharing of the denunciation by the Tea Party Patriots and members of the Republican Party of violence and slurs, no matter where it comes from. Either that or you choose to ignore it.

You so far haven't shown anything proving that any members of the Tea Party engaged in such activity...just allegations.

Martin Luther King is rolling over in his grave at the baseless race-baitng that is going on today.

He was a registered Republican, by the way.  

JenniferMaxwell
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170 posted 04-04-2010 06:42 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Dr. King's Economic Dream Deferred

“This is a perilous moment. The individualist, greed-driven free-market ideology that both our major parties have pursued is at odds with what most Americans really care about. Popular support for either party has struck bottom, as more and more agree that growing inequality is bad for the country, that corporations have too much power, that money in politics has corrupted our system, and that working families and poor communities need and deserve help because the free market has failed to generate shared prosperity -- its famous unseen hand has become a closed fist.

It is hard to overstate the consequences of choosing more of the same -- the very policies that have sundered our social contract. But hear the judgment of Nobel Laureate Kenneth Arrow, echoing Martin Luther King, Jr.'s life and martyrdom. "The vast inequalities of income weaken a society's sense of mutual concern," Arrow said. "...The sense that we are all members of the social order is vital to the meaning of civilization”
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/04/03
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171 posted 04-04-2010 06:53 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
On March 20th, something truly extraordinary happened. On the eve of the health care vote, a group of black Democrat Congressmen (eschewing the private tunnels they usually use to cross from their offices to the Capitol) chose to walk en masse through a crowd of protesters, confident that the knuckledragging Tea Party goons they and their media pals have reviled for a year now would respond with racial epithets.

And then, when the crowd didn't, the black Congressmen made it up anyway.

Representative Andre Carson (Democrat , Indiana) insisted he heard the N-word 15 times. He's either suffering from the same condition as that Guam-flipper from Georgia, or he's a liar. At a scene packed not only with crews from the Dem poodle media but with a gazillion cellphone cameras, not one single N-word has been caught on audio. (By contrast, see my post yesterday for how easy it is to get it on tape when real epithets are flying.)


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mjg1NTI4M2VkZmNjZWNmZWJjOWVjMWNkNGExOWRjMWI=
JenniferMaxwell
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172 posted 04-04-2010 07:10 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPAiH9XhTHc&feature=related
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173 posted 04-04-2010 11:37 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Where are the clear taped versions of what went on between that guy with Parkinson's and the TEA Party folks who were throwing money and insults at him, Denise?

      If all of this is so easy to get, and we have video of that incident, and we do, though the video is incomplete and not very good, where is the actual audio portion that ought to have come along with it in all its crystal clarity, if you are correct in your assumption about the ubiquity of video and sound recording.

     Even in Hollywood movies, where everything is set up in advance to get the best possible quality for both the picture and sound quality, it is frequent for the pictures to be redone many times to get high quality video, and it is common for the actor to have be get together in a studio sometimes months later to re-record the sound track because the words can't be made out.  And this is with the best possible equipment and operators and actors, with time to prepare for exactly the shots they want and with the help of the actors in doing and redoing the action until everything appear to be correct.

     If there are clear versions, as you claim there are, then Fox ought to have some, and they ought to show exactly what Fox claims to be there.  Fox doesn't show these alleged videos because they simply don't exist.  If the TEA Party folks had video to prove their case, where is it?  I suggest to you that if they had it, they would show it, including the moments during the walk when the protestor was detained,in handcuffs, and then released.  Why wouldn't they show it?

     Either it doesn't exist, it exists but the coverage is only partial and the very partiality and poor quality of the video disproves the case Fox and the Protestors or making or it doesn't show what they claim it should show at all.  These are the three possibilities that come to mind.  None of them look good for you.

     After the way that your TEA Party Patriots treated the Guy with Parkinson's in Ohio, I would think that any pretensions to non-violence would be open to some question.

     Before I would believe the Martin King was a Republican, I'd really want to know your source on that one.  Doesn't mean he couldn't have been, it simply means that I want to see an objective source before such an interesting claim would make sense to me.  There have been many decent Republicans, I believe, but I don't believe that Martin King would sign on behind any of them in the last 20 years, simply on the basis of the way they've dealt with most issues around peace and civil rights.  I remain open, though, if you can offer proof from a source that is generally agreed, by all parties, to be fact based and objective.  

     I agree that Martin Luther King would roll over in his grave at the senseless race bating going on today.  He was always against that.  It didn't stop the radical right before, though, and it certainly hasn't stopped them now.  Nor have they confined themselves to race, this time around.  It's very distressing.  Religious attacks on Muslims, attacks on gays, slurs against President Obama's heritage and qualifications all carry elements of race bating and prejudice that should have been gone from the American landscape a long long time ago.  But racism is hard for all of us to deal with.  I have difficulty in dealing with it in myself, and even recognizing it in myself, though it's clearly inside me.  I grew up with it as much as anybody in my generation.

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174 posted 04-04-2010 11:42 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



   By the way, Denise, I agree with you (in your 166) that Mr. Limbaugh's thinking is sick.  Though I must say, I've never seen him venture a healthy piece of thinking, so I'm unsure what you find it necessary to comment about.  That's just the kind of mind the man has.
 
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