How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 A Plea For Sanity   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ]
 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

A Plea For Sanity

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


50 posted 03-29-2010 09:20 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Just curious, Jenn. SInce you have shown lately to have an affinity for posting pics to try to prove some point, what are your thoughts on the pics Denise referred to in #28? Perhaps you missed them??
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


51 posted 03-29-2010 12:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here are some really cool pics!
http://americanpatrol.com/10-FEATURES/100327-FEATURE2/PHOTOS/100327-Photos.html
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


52 posted 03-29-2010 12:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Man Charged With Threatening To Kill Rep. Eric Cantor

PHILADELPHIA - Today, a two-count complaint and warrant was filed charging Norman Leboon with threatening to kill United States Congressman Eric Cantor and his family, and threatening to kill Congressman Eric Cantor, who is an official of the United States, announced United States Attorney Michael L. Levy and FBI Special Agent in Charge Jan Fedarcyk. As set forth in the affidavit to the complaint and warrant, in or about late March, 2010, Leboon created and then transmitted a YouTube video to Google over the internet, in which he threatened to kill Congressman Cantor and his family. No harm came to the Congressman or his family as a result of Leboon's threats.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-charged-with-threatening-eri c-cantor.php
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


53 posted 03-29-2010 12:36 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

9 Hutaree members face federal charges of conspiracy, attempting to use weapons of mass destruction

Nine members of Hutaree - described by authorities as an anti-government extremist organization - have been indicted on federal charges of attempting to use weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/9-hutaree-members-face-federal-charges-of-conspiracy-attempting-to-use-weapons-of-mass-destruction/
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


54 posted 03-29-2010 12:57 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     So, Denise, What about Alinsky's Rules for Radical's did you think was anti-constitutional?  I got no such vibe from them at all.

     Nor did I get any such vibe from Cloward and Piven, one of whose texts we used at Simmons.  One of the major social work areas of practice, by the way, is community organization and group work and empowerment.  It has been since Noah was a boy scout.  That's part of what the whole notion of The Settlement House was all about.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


55 posted 03-29-2010 10:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. authorities have arrested and charged a man with threatening to kill the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, Eric Cantor, and his family, according to court documents filed on Monday.

Norman Leboon, 38, was accused of making the threat in a video on YouTube in which he said, "You receive my bullets in your office, remember they will be placed in your heads," according to an FBI affidavit accompanying the charge.

A bullet was fired through a window at Cantor's Richmond, Virginia, campaign office last week, but police said it had been shot into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, suggesting it was a stray bullet.

Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. Congress have been trading accusations that each side was encouraging threats that have been made against lawmakers in the wake of the new healthcare law that Congress passed and President Barack Obama signed last week.

Authorities tracked Leboon to an address in Philadelphia where there was a state warrant pending in connection with other threats, according to an affidavit filed by an FBI agent with the two-count complaint.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100329/pl_nm/us_usa_congress_threat
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


56 posted 03-29-2010 11:19 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

#52
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


57 posted 03-29-2010 11:19 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Hatred as a Political Strategy

  By clarifying, Gingrich helps us get why health care became the most divisive social-program debate since Gingrich's successful attack on welfare in the 1990s, an attack that had racial overtones. Health care is breaking the backs of millions of families of all colors, but the Republicans chose to gin up the masses with unbridled fear, with House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio declaring the vote "Armageddon.''

No Republican had the courage to remind the rabid that America, at other great crossroads, did put government into their lives. The wealth of countless white middle class families today stems from World War II veteran housing bills that too often, we conveniently forget, discriminated against black veterans along with housing segregation. Surely, more than one tea partier has Medicare or uses a VA hospital. Yet most Republicans do anything they can to deflect responsibility for the frenzy.

In the final stages of the health care debate, Palin and other Republican leaders resorted to telling their masses to "reload'' or get ready for the "firing line'' in November. Republican Congressman Randy Neugebauer had to apologize for shouting "baby killer'' when anti-abortion Democrat Bart Stupak of Michigan gave his support for the health care bill. The Republicans need to find someone with courage to disarm the rhetoric, before someone reloads for real.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/27-3
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


58 posted 03-30-2010 01:33 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Sounds like Mr. Leboon was an appropriate arrest.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


59 posted 03-30-2010 07:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That's it, Dems...keep stoking the fires until you get what you want.


Yes, Jen, I duplicated your post because mine seemed a little more complete, such as the fact that Cantor was a Republican and it was originally deemed that he may have made the whole thing up or it was just a stray bullet that had nothing to do with an attempt on his life, little things missing from your version.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


60 posted 03-30-2010 07:50 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

And when asked about incidents of vandalism and threats that followed the bill's passage, Americans are more inclined to blame Democratic political tactics than critics' harsh rhetoric. Forty-nine percent say Democratic tactics are "a major reason" for the incidents

USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


61 posted 03-30-2010 08:16 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Republicans Block TRICARE/VA Amendment that Addresses their Concerns

Even though nothing in the health care reform bill that recently passed the House of Representatives in any way indicated that VA or TRICARE benefits would be affected, or that anyone would have to pay a fine for those benefits being their source of health insurance, Republicans raised hell about it anyway. That's what they do. Make things up and feign outrage.
"Alright," said the Democrats. "We'll placate your fear-mongering based in fantasy." So the majority in the House passed a bill that explicitly stated that nothing would be effected in regards to VA or TRICARE benefits.

That must have angered Senate Republicans, because they decided to block the same measure in their Chamber.

If they had any legitimate concern for reassuring us that our benefits would be protected, Republicans in the Senate would not have blocked the amendment. However, allowing it to pass would not support their fear-mongering narrative. Instead, they punted the Vets and military families that they use as a Political football.

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDi  ary.do?diaryId=3868&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+VetvoiceBlog+%28VetVoice+-+Blog%29
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


62 posted 03-30-2010 08:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Diaries and comments at VetVoice do not necessarily represent the views of VoteVets.org.

Similarly, the views expressed on this website are those of the authors alone. Opinions on this website do not necessarily represent the views of the Department of Defense or any of its components.


Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


63 posted 03-30-2010 09:38 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

There's nothing wrong with advocating for the poor, Bob. But a line is crossed when it degenerates into inciting class hatred, teaching people that it is okay to take from the haves to give to the have-nots, and teaching that the ends justify the means, a totally morally bankrupt concept. It's bad enough when private sector activist groups do it. It crosses the line even further when governments do it, which of course is the goal of the those activists groups to begin with, to get like-minded Marxists and socialists into power. The government has no authority given to it by the Constitution to take from one group to give to another group. Coercion is not charity, and you don't advantage the disadvantaged by giving them freely what others have earned. That just entrenches them in their poverty.
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


64 posted 03-30-2010 12:10 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

This week, Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-CA) told KUSI in San Diego that one of the most offensive parts of the health care reform law is that it will move TRICARE, the health program covering servicemembers and their families, out of the Defense Department and “to the department that handles welfare.” He added that once members of the military find out, “all hell is going to break loose”:

BILBRAY: When the retired military finds out that their TRICARE has been moved out of the Department of Defense to the department that handles welfare — when you tell somebody that’s served this country in the military, that now their programs are going to be administered like welfare programs, rather than earned military benefits, all hell is going to break loose. I can’t wait for mom to hear that her TRICARE now is going to be administered by the welfare people.

Q: That’s just one of the things we keep finding out as we keep peeling the onion on this day after.


There is no basis to Bilbray’s claim, which he has repeated to other outlets. The Administration for Children and Families at the Department of Health and Human Services administers the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, aka “welfare,” and nothing in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act says that TRICARE will be going there. “Those who depend on TriCARE should rest assured — TRICARE will not change under health insurance reform,” HHS spokesman Nick Papas told ThinkProgress. TriCARE spokesman Austin Camacho has also said, “Tricare is a DoD agency, and I’m quite sure it will stay that way.” Even Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), appearing on C-SPAN’s Washington Journal on Monday, insisted that the Affordable Care Act won’t affect military care."
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


65 posted 03-30-2010 12:14 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I agree Denise,

Medicare, Medicaid and social security along with all the other socialist redistribution schemes like VA supplied health care should be discontinued, unless of course that’s what the people want.

Would you be in favour of abolishing all social schemes?

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


66 posted 03-30-2010 12:20 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     I don't know of anybody's who's advocating getting like minded socialists and Marxists into power here except perhaps me, and I'm not a marxist, Denise.  Even if that were the case, the constituation feels that's fine, and even encourages it because it is another political party, and the constitution encourages free commerce in  political ideas.  Even the Supreme court thinks it's fine as long as it does not involve advocating the overthrow of the government by force.  The idea is that the government be freely elected, not that you love it or that it even be popular.  It is constructed so that only the House is supposed to be affected by large shifts in popularity, which says a significant amount about what the Founders thought of Government by Polls, doesn't it?

     If you want to talk about taking from the haves and giving to the have nots, you will open up the equally frustrating topic of taking from the have-nots and giving to the haves, which has been the theme of much of the past thirty years in American politics.  It has not been good for us, and has eroded the numbers of our once robust middle class.

      
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


67 posted 03-30-2010 01:29 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I am in favor of a safety net for people who genuinely need it, Grinch, and I think that such safety nets, if needed, should go no higher than the individual State level. Ideally, charity should come from individuals, religious institutions and the private sector. It should never be coerced by government by redistribution of wealth tactics.

Bob, socialism and communism violate the very spirit of the Constitution by making a mockery of its intent, the protection of personal liberties, and private property. Socialism and communism have never been shown to foster them, but have been shown to lead instead to repression of liberties and confiscation of private property. Statism violates the princple that power is vested in the "we the people", and not in the government ruling class.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


68 posted 03-30-2010 02:19 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I am in favor of a safety net for people who genuinely need it.. It should never be coerced by government by redistribution of wealth tactics.


So you’d close Medicare, Medicaid etc. and provide health care via various private and charitable means. It's a valid position.

What would the services and level of services supplied be? For instance would the network of church/private groups supply health care and to what level? Would there be limits on the procedures available and if so how will each case be judged? – will there be some sort of a panel or assessment group?

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


69 posted 03-30-2010 02:26 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The more syllables you use, Denise, the harder it get for me to understand you around stuff like the following:

quote:

Bob, socialism and communism violate the very spirit of the Constitution by making a mockery of its intent, the protection of personal liberties, and private property. Socialism and communism have never been shown to foster them, but have been shown to lead instead to repression of liberties and confiscation of private property. Statism violates the princple that power is vested in the "we the people", and not in the government ruling class.



     My first reaction is to say, "Nonsense!" and to let it go at that, but I that doesn't say what the nonsense is.  Some forms of private property were wrong from the beginning, and most of the founders knew it.  Not making that clear almost killed the country at the start.  Slavery was wrong.  It's still wrong.  People aren't property.  

     We've been fighting every since about what is property.  It's a slippery notion.  The Romans thought children were their parents' property.  A father had the right to kill his children for displeasing him as long as he was alive, if I remember my Roman law correctly.  What the colonial laws were about property are not the same as ours.  Perhaps you would wish to stand up for them, perhaps not, but I think you'd want to know more about them — as would I — before making that decision.  You act as though you already know.  

     As for your outrage about personal liberties, I'm sure that you feel it right now.  I have not heard you urge repeal of The PATRIOT Act or of other attacks on our personal liberties in recent years.  Thus I have reason to believe that your feelings, while genuine, are not well thought out and contradict themselves in some very basic ways.  

     Neither communism nor socialism mock the constitution, though I can't say that I believe that communism is particularly workable as a form of government.  Both are choices for how a particular party may govern.  Those choices are for the electorate to make.  The constitution says that.  It doesn't say that we must restrict the choices the people are allowed to make because the Republican party hates socialists.  I see that noplace in the constitution.

     The Constitution says that you can say whatever you like about the socialists and the communists, but it offers the communists and the socialists the right  to say whatever it wants to say about you as well.  I can agree with you that the communists haven't done a great job in governing.  I think the socialists have done fairly well, on the whole.  I don't see that we've done a great job with an unregulated market economy those times we've come closest to having one.  The same oppressive traits that you ascribe to big government seems to adhere to big business as well, and "we the people" need something powerful enough to keep those business interests somewhat in check.  

     Though it gets more and more complicated the closer you look at the parts.
    
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


70 posted 03-30-2010 04:31 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, I wouldn't close those programs, Grinch. They are too entrenched in our economy at this point. Perhaps in time they could start to be phased out. But seeing as how those programs are going broke, I don't know how we are supposed to afford the newest program.

Levels of care by private organizations or churches, etc., would have to be determined by those groups.

That's funny, Bob, your commenting on my "number of syllables".

I never said that socialists and communists shouldn't speak. Of course they have that right. They just aren't very good in the preserving of liberty and governing departments.  
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


71 posted 03-30-2010 05:06 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

So the churches etc. will be running the death panels?

Would that work? I mean people are pretty reluctant to trust priests with their kids right now, would they trust them with their lives? Mind you, I guess beggars can’t be choosers.

As far as shutting down health care and social security etc. goes I agree it’s probably a good idea to phase them out over time but there are possible economic advantages to minimise the timescales. If you start by repealing the new health care law while simultaneously removing VA cover and rolling back Medicare you’d almost certainly get a bonus knock on effect in the other social schemes as the number of poor people dying increases exponentially.

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


72 posted 03-30-2010 05:18 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No Grinch, I said that there should be a safety net for the truly needy. Charity by churches and private organizations could help people out before they needed a government safety net. The government should be the last resort for helping the needy, not the first or only resource.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


73 posted 03-30-2010 06:20 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Denise,

Do you really think that churches and charity could replace Medicare, Medicaid and social security? Look at the numbers Denise, they couldn’t even come close.

Dismantling the social programs is a legitimate option, pretending that they’ll be replaced by an unorganised and ad hoc network of churches and charities isn’t. If you want to dismantle the American social system you need to have confidence in you convictions and accept that there will be serious consequence – there’s no such thing as a free ride.

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


74 posted 03-30-2010 08:03 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The great depression is an example of what happens when you depend on the churchs and voluntary charity to substitute for more competent safety nets, as do the horrible effects of most of the economic crashes we've recorded before that time, here and on the continent.  The right wing keeps reasserting the failed solutions of a prior idealized time as though they had worked to keep people from starving and dying in large numbers.  Yet they keep making these assertions as if they could prove they were effective.  

     As Denise has said in the past:  It's the responsibility of somebody who makes the assertion to lay out the proof.  Yet here, once again, is her assertion.  Once again she passes by it by as though it were not her responsibility to show us the figures and the facts to back up her claims.  If what she says is true, the facts out to be right there, writ large in the constructions of the past.  All she needs to do is to show how much better they've worked than what we do today in keeping people from dying from starvation and disease in times of distress.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> A Plea For Sanity   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors