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Politics or just plain hatred?

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threadbear
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25 posted 03-20-2010 04:09 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

the story is over.
The Editor of the Dispatch took down the story voluntarily today. (they removed all references to it from their front page also, although in their archives footage is the Raw Footage video, still.)
  
My article is therefore not necessary, and I won't write it to 'pile on.'  This was the most popular video in Columbus Dispatch history and they took down.  I just talked to the editor and we both agreed, the better part of valor is not to pile on an elderly decent guy.  I researched him for 2 straight days, and wound up actually liking the guy, but not his affiliation with ProgressOhio.  

I sincerely apologize here to PIP for my abruptness:  I didn't mean to come off rude.  I was rushing around all yesterday trying to get the direct story.  I was researching this article BEFORE it come out on HuffPo because I was doing some work on ProgressOhio.  They took over this video as their own propaganda piece without persmission and then paid Bob some money.  Whether you want to say it was for the post-interviews or whatever:  that's whoever's call.   Nobody in Mass Media will touch this either: it's a tainted story. It just doesn't check out, and that's why the Dispatch took it down.  

The bottom line is: to take down ProgressOhio, I would also have to hurt the reporter and Bob in the process.  Don't really want to do that to either guy since the story was killed by the Dispatch, and the followup article by a second reporter was, too.
End of story
Again, i apologize for any rudeness.  I really didn't mean it to sound that way.
Jeff
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26 posted 03-20-2010 05:28 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/03/19/angry-protesters-warp-focus-of-debate.html?sid=101
JenniferMaxwell
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27 posted 03-20-2010 06:33 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

And it continues...
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/20/tea-party-spit/

Lewis responded, "Yes, but it's OK. I've heard this before in the '60s. A lot of this is just downright hate." http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88041-cbc-member-says-health-bill-protesters-called-rep-lewis-the-n-word

JenniferMaxwell
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28 posted 03-20-2010 06:44 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

One more
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/menacing.php
JenniferMaxwell
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29 posted 03-20-2010 07:01 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

And this from the memory book. The pages flip in a sec or two - a half a dozen or so different pages.
http://www.airfarceone.net/antirepubs2/boothers.gif
threadbear
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30 posted 03-20-2010 07:48 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

All the aforementioned sites you listed, Jennifer, are illegal downloads to their blog sites.
Only the Atlanta Constitution ran the article.  The article is still there, buried, on the Dispatch's web, but they no longer allow comments or have it on their front page.   The article you posted, Grinch, was a CYA cover-their-as* post that failed totally to illuminate any of the problems with the video I relayed to the editor.  The video is viral:  from 63,000 hits yesterday to over 100,000.  I talked directly to Doral, the reporter:  he hasn't authorized ANYONE to use his video.  The Dispatch hasn't given permission either.  So goes the internet.....

This is one of the reasons I prefer live fact checking, as opposed to a cut and paste job illegally using someone elses' work.  It's one thing to post it as a reference in a discussion:  quite another to post an illegal video as a Web Site Attraction such as ProgressOhio, Daily Kos, HuffPo, and numerous liberal blog sites.  At last count I saw 250 different sites using this video without permission, without context, and in it's pulled edited version (not the raw footage which shows the video in somewhat proper context.)  

A couple of things happened you didn't see on the video that I learned from the editor and the reporter:  the camera was already setup- 30 feet from a large tree.  You can see it in the rsw footage.  Bob sat down right next to the camera, on purpose.  Doral said he was filming the pro-health people across the street.  The street had traffic on it, going back and forth, and Bob sat down so close at one time, one of the Tea Party people had to pull him closer to the curb to keep him from getting hit.  He mentions this in the ProgressOhio video.  According to Doral, he just swiveled the camera around and down, after he heard some comments back and forth between Bob and the crowd. And that accounts for the unusual camera angle.  He was practically on top of Bob to begin with.    He could have gotten any number of shouting matches between the two parties, but filmed what he filmed.  He said they were equally verbally combative, but no-one laid a hand on any one else, to both parties credit.  He said he's covered several of these and what happens is this:  the Pro/Anti health care people are seperated initially, with a street or physical impediment between them.  Then, one person or two will wander over to the other group and they'll start arguing, almost always nonviolently.  On balance, I would say this jerk with the tie was the exception, and was the result of several Red Rover Red Rover trips by both sides that finally reached a climax.  That's just part of the background on the story that isn't in the film.  There's much more than this, even to relate, but I don't want to really want to point fingers since the situation was resolved.  This is also the weekend, and the weekly daily Editor isn't there, so who know what will happen next week.  
JenniferMaxwell
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31 posted 03-20-2010 07:52 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

After the caucus meeting, TPMDC's Evan McMorris-Santoro caught up with Frank, who reflected on the incident.

"I'm disappointed at a unwillingness to be just civil," Frank said. "[T]he objection to the health care bill has become a proxy for other sentiments."

"Obviously there are perfectly reasonable people that are against this, but the people out there today on the whole--many of them were hateful and abusive," Frank added.

Asked by TPMDC whether today's protesters were more hateful than at other rallies, Frank took issue with party leaders for aligning themselves with the movement.

I do think the leaders of the movement, and this was true of some of the Republicans last year, that they think they are benefiting from this rancor. I mean there are a couple who--you know, Michele Bachmann's rhetoric is inflamatory as well as wholly baseless. And I think there are people there, a few that encourage it.
"If this was my cause, and I saw this angry group yelling and shouting and being so abusive to people, I would ask them to please stop it," Frank concluded. "I think they do more harm than good."


This is incredible," House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC) told reporters of the slurs. "It's shocking to me." He said he hadn't heard such vitriol since March 15, 1960 when he was protesting segregation laws that forced him to sit in the back of buses. "A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this, is not about health care at all," Clyburn said. "I think a lot of those people today demonstrated this is not about health care."
threadbear
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32 posted 03-20-2010 08:07 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Jennifer:  rednecks are rednecks.  They're on both sides of the liberal or conservative fences.  Calling Barney Franks a F*g to his face is extremely disrespectful, but not UNusual for a redneck.  I know, because of my Midwest friends say things like f*g in private circles, and I always chastise them for that and N* bombs.  I also hear the opposite side call us Cracker and MoFo's all the time.  I spend alot of time working with kids in the Parks departments that are close to the inner city.    It's all a vicious name calling circle, and so wrong.  I don't tolerate ANY of my friends to use the F* or the N* word in my presence.  

Bottom line:  there is an unspoken racism in this country that falls just short of in-your-face name calling.  Somehow, it all works out: I've only heard of two incidents of violence in all the tea rallies:  a guy had his ear bit off and other was pushed down on the pavement by an SEIU t-shirt wear.  There are no known arrests of ANY Tea Party goer at a rally.  Astounding fact really, when there are usually 20 arrests after EVERY NFL football game.
Bob K
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33 posted 03-21-2010 02:07 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     My impression is that there is some cross pollination between Tea Party rallies and NRA rallies, T-Bear.  Is this stereotypy on my part?  I'm always a tough leery of approaching folk I believe to be armed.  They have arranged their conversational options to be far wider than those I feel belong in civil discourse, whatever their reasoning, and they have placed themselves beyond my willingness to open up a polite conversation.  I limit myself to avoidance whenever I can.

     So I, unlike you, find it not at all unusual that the number of arrests at Tea Party gatherings would be far lower than at NFL games.  Were I a cop, I would also be very careful about disrupting gatherings of potentially armed people, even if they were a bit more rowdy than I would otherwise tend to feel comfortable tolerating.  Especially if I were nervous that these folk might confuse me with agents of government aggression.

     How close this is to reality, I have no idea; but I can't say that your speculation that Tea Party gatherings are so benign that police are utterly untroubled by them is an idea that is one that has much actual evidence behind it either.  It would be nice, but most of the police I've known have had a nice healthy touch of paranoia in their dealings with others.  It tends to serve them very well indeed in keeping their casualty rates further down than they might otherwise be for, say, a group of naive idealists.  Paranoia persists because it's both functional and adaptive; that's my assertion.

     Crowds of demonstrators may at times be very well behaved.  Crowds of angry demonstrators tend to have difficulty maintaining calmness and control.
JenniferMaxwell
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34 posted 03-21-2010 06:39 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Too much tea party racism

“As protesters call Dem leaders "n____" and "f____," it's time for Republicans to denounce them. So far, none have “

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/index.html


Denise
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35 posted 03-21-2010 08:14 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think there is also the possibility that these clowns were plants from the opposition (the left) in an attempt to give the Tea Partiers a black eye by giving them bad press.

Mike Huckabee denounced the comments last night. He's a Republican.
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36 posted 03-21-2010 12:46 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

From this video clip in this article of the time frame in question, it appears that the slurs were never uttered at all.
http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/03/21/media-lying-about-racist-attacks-at-on-black-reps-by-tea-party-protesters-video-proof/
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37 posted 03-21-2010 01:10 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Denise,
The reports I read stated that the alleged events occurred inside the Longworth Building, the video you posted seems to be outside.

.
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38 posted 03-21-2010 03:52 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) said Saturday that healthcare protesters at the Capitol directed racial epithets at him and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) as they walked outside.

Carson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus along with Lewis, told The Hill that protesters called the lawmakers the N-word.


The above is from one of Jennifer's links, Grinch. The one from TPM stated Waxman and Frank were yelled at or called names inside the building.

At this point I'd need to see video of the alleged incidents to believe any of them happened.

JenniferMaxwell
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39 posted 03-21-2010 06:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Doesn’t get much lower than calling those members of Congress who were insulted liars, failing to condemn the abusive and belligerent behavior of that crowd and trying to blame others for the despicable actions that took place.
I’m seeing a silly hat so I’m going back to “teabagger”.
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40 posted 03-21-2010 07:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Denise! You suggested the possibility that a congressman could lie? Have you lost your senses??? And you further suggest that a right-winger could do such a thing to bring a black mark on the tea baggers??? How dare you! Politicians don't do things like that! Hide your head in shame
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41 posted 03-21-2010 07:27 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

So it never really happened?

Well that’s a relief.

.
Bob K
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42 posted 03-21-2010 07:33 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     But Denise, why do you say that it appears that the slurs were never uttered at all?  The commentator in the article you quoted certainly does say that, and you certainly agree with him, but I see no evidence that this is in fact true because the video doesn't keep a close focus on the folks in question for anywhere near even the part of the walk that it pretends to cover.  And it doesn't pretend to cover all of it now, does it?  And, beyond that, if you can make out anything beyond Kill the Bill and various Booing sounds coming from close to the microphone, your hearing is far better than mine is.  

     How does this possibly support the conclusion that your commentator or you are trying to sell me and the rest of the public?  That no such exchange happened?

     And why would I assume that there is a left wing conspiracy on this matter?  It seems a reasonably small matter for a conspiracy to be built on and suggests that this is a great time for launching left wing conspiracies when all the left wing energies that I see seem to be needed in getting the silly health care bill passed.  Conspiring to sully the good name of the TEA party folk seems reasonably far down on the ladder of importance at this point for us lefties when we're busy defending ourselves and trying to get our own tattered legislative agenda through.

     I don't want to suggest that you're unimportant to me, or that I'm not interested in what you're saying, but saying that the TEA party is capable of acting badly is not something I need to be convinced of.  The TEA Party itself is reasonably sure that they would never act improperly because they are, after all, The TEA Party, and I'm not sure that the rest of the country is all that interested.

     If the commentator from the site you quote is going to continue to be as  savage as he is trying to be, I wish he'd try to be clever as well.  This is a personal weakness of mine, and not necessarily a very pretty one; but if somebody's going to savage me and mine, I'd prefer that they at least tried to be funny while they were about it.  Straight out nastiness simply feels disturbing to me, though I've noticed that nobody every seems to ask my opinion on these issues first.  I've always felt this was another of their failings as well, not that anybody asked.
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43 posted 03-21-2010 08:08 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Were they insulted Jennifer? I haven't seen the proof. Just accusations with nothing to back it up. If someone did actually say such things I would of course denounce it, no matter what side of the political aisle they were from. What kind of a reporter does TPM have who doesn't come with a camera or audio recorder? Words on a page with no proof doesn't cut it with such serious allegations.

And for the record I don't wear hats of any kind. Use whatever term pleases you. Be my guest. I can tune you out. You're just revealing something about yourself when you use offensive slurs...sort of like the ones you are decrying are so horrible when even allegedly used against the esteemed congressmen, sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. Show me proof that what is alleged to have happened actually happened.

What could I have been thinking, Mike? I have no idea how I could have ever suspected foul play from politicians!

I suppose it's possible Grinch, I just haven't seen the proof.

Bob, I think the evidence has to come from those who are doing the accusing, don't you?
JenniferMaxwell
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44 posted 03-21-2010 08:27 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

It's awfully hard to hear anything when you have your head stuck in the sand lining the banks of a certain river. Anyway, at about 44 - 45 you can hear the word that was never said said. Of course no point in bothering to to listen, the word that was never said was said by a plant, not a real honest to goodness teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger teabagger

Oops, sticky something or other.

Grinch
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45 posted 03-21-2010 08:37 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I think you’re quite right to be sceptical Denise, people are apt to try to convince you of all sorts of stupid ideas and notions, expecting you to acccept that they’re true based on nothing more than faith.

Jen,

So it did happen?

I was kinda hoping it hadn't.

.
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46 posted 03-21-2010 08:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's awfully hard to hear anything when you have your head stuck in the sand lining the banks of a certain river

Offensive slurs seem to be the norm here, Denise. Why waste your time trying to reason with the unreasonable?
JenniferMaxwell
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47 posted 03-21-2010 08:51 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Take a listen Grinch and see what you think.

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48 posted 03-21-2010 09:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'm not Michael. I'm tuning it out.

It's ironic, though, how some people get so outraged at certain people possibly being slurred have no problem slurring others. Talk about heads being in the sand. And the people who preach tolerance seem to be the most intolerant bunch of all, to the point of not even being able to carry on a civil discussion if you disagree with them about anything, or question any of their assertions.

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49 posted 03-21-2010 09:40 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I fail to see anything civil about calling innocent people clowns and plants and members of Congress liars.
 
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