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There are 198 Prisoners left at Guantanamo as of today, 3/5/10.

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Bob K
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0 posted 03-06-2010 02:53 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     It seems to me that there is very good reason to be closing the detention center we have there.  I suspect that some may disagree, and I'd like to hear both sides; but I think that the purpose of the detention center is long past.  If there is reason for keeping those remaining at that center in prolonged detention, we should show reason for doing so in open court.  If we have forfeited our right to do so by our prior treatment of the prisoners, we need to own up to this and move on.  

     The matter should be a fairly straightforward legal matter, and political considerations shouldn't really come into it, Democratic or Republican.  We need to get the country back to a place where we are fierce in our protections of civil liberties.  The past year has not been a speedy enough period in our addressing of our losses in terms of our civil liberties.  We need to apply ourselves to repairing the damages done to them now, without dawdling and without further delay.
JenniferMaxwell
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1 posted 03-06-2010 06:14 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell



Since they haven’t been convicted of any crime, what right have we to hold them indefinitely? Just because Bush said so? There are some who still don’t get it and are sponsoring a bill that would make it legal for the government to indefinitely detain suspects without charge or trial:

Senators McCain and Lieberman Introduce Bill to Authorize Indefinite Detention
http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/03/04-14

"unprivileged enemy belligerents" - I have no idea what that means, but would really like to know. Is it just another term for enemy combatants, a dehumanizing euphemism that strips suspects of all rights and protections offered by the Geneva Convention and/or the Constitution? Are we truly willing to shred the Constitution and toss Habeas Corpus into the dust bin?

Grinch
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2 posted 03-06-2010 06:42 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I think that the purpose of the detention center is long past.


I’d argue that it shouldn’t have existed in the first place, that it served no purpose beyond demonising Muslims and acting as a token of evidence that the war on terror was necessary. The problem now is that the ruse has worked too well. The politicians have done such a good job convincing Americans that it was right to incarcerate the local kebab shop owner from Kabul because they thought he might be a terrorist that now, when they realise they might have been wrong, nobody wants to release anyone in case they are actually terrorists. It’s hard to argue that something is bad if you were bending over backwards to argue that it was necessary and good for so long.

It’s the political equivalent of painting yourself into a corner, getting out is either messy or takes a long time sitting in a corner looking like an idiot.

American politicians seem to be genetically built to paint themselves into corners. The same flaw is apparent in the health care debate where some politicians have demonised ideas for change to such an extent that it’ll be impossible to incorporate them in future legislation when it’s their turn to look for a solution. Death panels are a good example. When some bright spark somewhere down the line suggests that it might make sense to restrict access to certain procedures that might be better treated with a pill – a seemingly sensible idea. What’s the chances that he’ll be beaten to death with a placard pronouncing “NO DEATH PANELS” when he suggests that a panel of experts should be formed to look into it? Are the chances of him even suggesting the idea somewhat diminished if he’d been carrying exactly the same banner for the last three years?

What should you do with the detainees at Guantanamo?

Either take the messy route and ruin the floor you’ve been painting for the last few years or hunker down in the corner and wait for the paint to dry. Either way the damage to Americas reputation is unavoidable.

.
Bob K
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3 posted 03-06-2010 05:58 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     While I agree with both of you, I wonder what some of the folks who tend to disagree with this sort of thing would say.  I am pleased to see Grinch taking up a traditional conservative point of view on civil liberties.  In America, the view on Civil Liberties seems anything but conservative or, for that matter, Liberal.

     For the neoconservative right, traditional conservatism is of virtually no interest.  Traditional Conservatism is very much in favor of Habeus Corpus, secured in the American Constitution and cherished among the unwritten rules in the English Bill of Rights:  They claim it's the stronger for its not being down on paper.  Our American conservatives were furious with Lincoln for his suspension of Habeus Corpus during the Civil War, as well they should have been.  It was not one of his ptroud moments.  

     And now we have Senators McCain and Lieberman chomping away again.  Apparently they feel the American Constitution is some fine dining experience, and they can't wait to sink their aging chops into it again.  Yum!

[URL=http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/06-

     For those of you who have difficulty accessing the reference above, paste the reference into google and it seems to come up without trouble.


http://www.aclu.org/national-security/senators-mccain-and-lie  berman-introduce-bill-authorize-indefinite-detention


[This message has been edited by Bob K (03-06-2010 10:31 PM).]

Bob K
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4 posted 03-06-2010 10:38 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I haven't been able to get the reference by clicking on it myself.  I was able to do so by feeding it directly into Google, however, for those interested.
JenniferMaxwell
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5 posted 04-09-2010 12:37 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times.

The accusations were made by Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to Colin Powell, the former Republican Secretary of State, in a signed declaration to support a lawsuit filed by a Guantánamo detainee. It is the first time that such allegations have been made by a senior member of the Bush Administration.
........
Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld, Colonel Wilkerson said, deemed the incarceration of innocent men acceptable if some genuine militants were captured, leading to a better intelligence picture of Iraq at a time when the Bush Administration was desperate to find a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11, “thus justifying the Administration’s plans for war with that country”.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece

 
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