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Passions in Poetry

Obama

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Dadygoose
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since 01-01-2010
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A Communist country


0 posted 03-01-2010 08:56 AM       View Profile for Dadygoose   Email Dadygoose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dadygoose


NOW
do you understand?

Here they apparently subscribe in one way or another to the theory of class struggle, which holds that there is an irreconcilable conflict of interest between the rich class and the poor class, a doctrine that has to be imposed on an ignorant electorate by an authoritarian state on behalf of the poor oppressed class and against the popular will purportedly for the public good because rich people can not be trusted.  It promises equality but merely institutionalizes a new class of rich oppressors.  It promises prosperity but delivers misery by taking ill-gotten wealth from those who have earned it and giving it to those who have not.  It promises freedom but requires bondage.  It promises liberty but imposes tyranny.  This doctrine is not questioned and it is a form of religious fundamentalism.  Its modern day interpreters, acolytes, followers and revelators are, among others, gore, Boxer, Cone, Marx and Alinsky.  It purports to represent the noblest of human motives, aspirations and intentions while at the same time it infantilizes people and ends by crushing the human spirit.  If government has any role at all, it should be to encourage each person to act, think and create for himself, because it is only through the creative activity of individuals working in their own self interest that the public good is served.
A government that does that is good, while one that does not is not.
Since Marx’s crackpot theories are not favored here and because they are alien to our culture and hostile to our country, a contemptuous and outraged nation will remove Him.  You already know who He is, because there is only One.

Hey, nobody's human!

Balladeer
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1 posted 03-01-2010 01:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You took the words right out of my mouth! (and presented them in a better way than I could have)

No, they still don't understand...or don't want to.
JenniferMaxwell
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2 posted 03-01-2010 06:16 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qniwI2hNhDs&feature=related

Bob K
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3 posted 03-01-2010 10:54 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Thank you, Jennifer!
Balladeer
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4 posted 03-02-2010 01:28 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That's a cute video, Jennifer but....sheep herding with lights????
Balladeer
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5 posted 03-02-2010 02:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.pjtv.com/v/3156


JenniferMaxwell
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6 posted 03-02-2010 02:57 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Balladeer, the link in # 5 shows drug use in a cartoon format and uses a homophobic slur. It makes feel very sad to know you think something like that's funny or worth watching.

Balladeer
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7 posted 03-02-2010 03:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Wow...you have outdone yourself! I'm beginning to admire your abilities, Jennifer
JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 03-02-2010 05:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You think I’m joking, Balladeer? Trust me, I’m not.

Homophobic slurs aren’t amusing, they’re cruel and degrading.  I really feel you should delete that link. Surely you can find some other video that says what you want to say about Obama, one that doesn’t contain hurtful words that demean others because of their sexual orientation.

Balladeer
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9 posted 03-02-2010 05:25 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

OK, I've had enough. It's all yours, Jennifer. Go ahead and create tempests to hide the fact that it's simply a comical farce on Obama and you don't like it. I leave your self-created righteousness to you and your sheep videos.

I'm headed to a place where they Alley lurkers don't go...the poetry forums. Imagine that...poetry on a poetry site. It's true. You can look it up in the table of contents. The Alley is all yours and those who think like you.

If the powers that be deem the video to be unsuitable, they can delete it.

Enjoy your outrage.
JenniferMaxwell
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10 posted 03-02-2010 06:33 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Saying I didn’t like the video you posted because it was a comical farce directed at Obama is both untrue and a distraction, since in #8 I gave you carte blanche to post any other anti-Obama video you wanted, comic farce or otherwise, as long as it didn’t contain homophobic slurs.

Homophobic slurs, anti-gay remarks are as totally unacceptable as racial slurs. Anyone who doesn’t speak out against them is by their silence condoning bigotry and hate mongering. Bigotry and hate mongering may get a pass from you, Balladeer, but they sure don’t get one from me.

If it takes a tempest to help stop that sort of hate mongering that so often leads to violence, then I’ll keep brewing up a storm.
Bob K
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11 posted 03-02-2010 07:46 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Jennifer, he really doesn't see it.  That doesn't put him into the right, but he really doesn't see it and he doesn't understand it.  He mostly talks to people who don't see it, and those people who do, . . . well, I suspect they think of it as a charming eccentricity.

     What Mike knows is how well meaning a guy he is, for the most part, and I think he's completely puzzled that other folks don't see that obvious fact.  From his point of view, it is obvious, I do believe.  He simply doesn't have the ability to actually look at things from your perspective, most of the time, which is why he's hurt rather than seriously set back on his heels.

      Mike, if you're out there, feel free to chime in about how wrong I am or where I' wrong.  These are my thoughts in my mouth and won't substitute for your words from your mouth, should you choose to offer them.  

     Using the language that video used about Barney Frank is a pretty dumb way of handling somebody who's got knowledge base that Barney Frank has, and who has the ability to think things through that he has.  If the video was funny, more of us should have been able to laugh.  If you remember, there have been videos whose targets were left and right wing that both of us have laughed at regardless of politics because they caught something universal.  This simply wasn't one of them.

     An example of one that was, if you remember, was the satire on President Obama from Saturday Night Live with The Wrestler playing President Obama turning into The Humk periodically.  Both of us found that hysterical, even though the satire was directed at President Obama and I think of him as my guy and you think of him as The Great Satan.  Sort of.  
JenniferMaxwell
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12 posted 03-02-2010 09:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


I’m not going to talk about Balladeer or presume I know what he thinks or knows or doesn’t know, and I truly wish he’d stop saying he knows how I think or what I feel or why I post the things I do. That’s really very silly since he knows absolutely nothing about me.

Anyway, since there has been at least one thread here in the Alley about how hurtful homophobic slurs can be, and there have been poems and posts about the same topic in other forums, I find it hard to accept that any long time poster wouldn’t understand that slurs like that in the video, might be very hurtful to members of the PiP family.

If something I said in this thread was hurtful to Balladeer, then I do apologize. It was never my intent to attack him personally. I was simply trying to point out that I felt the video was inappropriate and explain why I felt that way.
Ron
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13 posted 03-03-2010 04:27 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Uh, I don't see it, Jennifer.

Are you referring to the line where someone is called a queen? Is that your homophobic slur? Or was there something I missed?

Please keep in mind that calling someone a woman doesn't necessarily make it a slur. It's only a slur if at least one of us believe that being a woman is a bad thing. I didn't see any indication in the video that being a queen was necessarily a bad thing? Again, did I miss something?


JenniferMaxwell
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14 posted 03-03-2010 07:44 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Yes, that’s the homophobic slur I was referring to, Ron. If you don’t think it was meant as a slur, then perhaps you could explain to me the reason for referring Barney Frank an “aging queen” in that piece. Is he a member of royalty? Was the person speaking in the video a member of the gay community using the term in a non-pejorative manner, like his calling Dean a “nut job” wasn’t meant to be a slur, just a term of endearment or something?
Bob K
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15 posted 03-03-2010 09:12 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Come on, Ron, when was the last time you tried calling your girlfriend or a daughter or, for that matter, a construction worker on the street, a "queen?"  You gonna go into biker bars and try calling any of those folks "aging queens," and then try offering your explanation?  I guess I think it'd be an interesting scene to observe from a safe distance, except I have a certain wary fondness for you and would like to see you survive.

     Are you suggesting this is the sort of thing you'd think wasn't in extremely poor taste if somebody addressed it to a member of Pip?  If in fact you thought they were talking about that member as an aging person of royal descent, it'd be mighty sloppy use of language, at a minimum.  You notice such things.  If it was merely calling a man a woman, it would, at a minimum, be incorrect and in poor taste.  If you suggest that that's all the word means, then you are not functioning as a proper informant on the language for the occasional native French speaker who reads our pages.  

     He may actually take you at your word, with serious consequences, should he triy to use the word as you suggest it be used.

     Exactly why you are trying to make nice in this fashion is beyond me.  Jennifer is correct, near as I can tell.  "Aging Queen" was a calculated insult directed at Barney Frank's homosexuality.  The guy who was tossing it into his mean-tempered parody of Casey at The Bat didn't  intend it as an affectionate inside jibe, as is sometimes possible when gay folk sometimes toss trash back and forth amongst themselves.  He didn't get the tone right, nor did he appear to be interested in doing so.  It was an attempt at tossing in a stock outsider insult at somebody, like using the N word for a Black guy or the K word for a Jew.

     The phrase is offensive.  It should not have been used in a video posted on a site where ordinary profanity, even profanity used for emphasis as it often is in regular conversation,  is routinely excluded.  

     Consider this posting of mine to be the equivalent of my pressing the button that says another posting was offensive; and consider this a very partial explanation of some of the reasons why.  

      I don't believe in censorship.  I think it's bad politics.  But I do reserve the right to say when I think something's offensive; and that particular piece of language offened me.  I didn't particularly enjoy the humor of the rest of the piece; but that's my problem.  I don't have to:  My humor doesn't set the standard, thank goodness.  But Jennifer is, I think, right about that particular phrase being homophobic.  And it didn't work well here.
    
Essorant
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16 posted 03-03-2010 08:07 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Dictionary.com has:


4.Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
a.a male homosexual, esp. one who is flamboyantly campy.
b.drag queen.

I think it is fairly obvious that he was using the word in that way.  


Dadygoose
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since 01-01-2010
Posts 160
A Communist country


17 posted 03-17-2010 06:01 PM       View Profile for Dadygoose   Email Dadygoose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dadygoose

What video? Mike, can you help me with this?
I thought we would be talking about Marx, Alensky, Cone, and all of their followers, acolytes and practitioners, like what they wanted and what they were trying to do?
Since these crackpot theories are being imposed on us, shouldn’t we be talking about their suitability for our country and our culture?  Have any of you people ever heard of the “invisible hand,” the relationship between supply and demand, John Maynord Canes and how a command economy works?
Judging from what I have read on here, I am led to conclude that most of you have not, and moreover, don’t care or even want to know.   Perhaps Mike is the only one on here with whom I can have an intelligent conversation about this.  I am deaf and blind, and apparently Jennifer sees things that I can not.  If she does, then bless her.  I agree with mike that perhaps she is best left to her hallucinations, if that’s what they are.

Jennifer, what was in that movie, picture or whatever it was?
What video? Mike, can you help me with this?
I thought we would be talking about Marx, Alensky, Cone, and all of their followers, acolytes and practitioners, like what they wanted and what they were trying to do?
Since these crackpot theories are being imposed on us, shouldn’t we be talking about their suitability for our country and our culture?  Have any of you people ever heard of the “invisible hand,” the relationship between supply and demand, John Maynord Canes and how a command economy works?
Judging from what I have read on here, I am led to conclude that most of you have not, and moreover, don’t care or even want to know.   Perhaps Mike is the only one on here with whom I can have an intelligent conversation about this.  I am deaf and blind, and apparently Jennifer sees things that I can not.  If she does, then bless her.  I agree with mike that perhaps she is best left to her hallucinations, if that’s what they are.

Jennifer, what was in that movie, picture or whatever it was?

Hey, nobody's human!

Grinch
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Whoville


18 posted 03-17-2010 07:56 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Have any of you people ever heard of the “invisible hand,” the relationship between supply and demand, John Maynord Canes and how a command economy works?


Sorry, don't know the bloke.

Is he related to John Maynard Keynes by any chance?

.
Bob K
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19 posted 03-18-2010 02:55 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

I thought we would be talking about Marx, Alensky, Cone, and all of their followers, acolytes and practitioners, like what they wanted and what they were trying to do?



     It's been a while since I've read Lord Keynes.  I know a bit about Marx.  I have no idea who "Cone" may be, and would appreciate being filled in.  I heard Saul Alinsky speak once and found myself very impressed by the guy; this was back in 1967 or 68.  Rules for Radicals is a wonderful book about Community Organizing, any it's usful for anybody who needs to do work in that area.  Even Republicans can use the ideas effectively, though I tend to think that they're more consistently in touch with money and civic organizations already in existence like Rotary and The K of C and The School Boards.  Alinsky is more interested in dealing with helping folks who are out of touch with those traditional power sources.

     A lot of social work is interested in community organizing and has been since the 19th Century; so, as a profession, the notion of community organization actually is something that social workers, many of us, have been trained to value and practice.  By the way.

     It may be that you have your notions of community self-help and marxism fuddled.  There's been a lot of propaganda directed that way over the past 20 years or so, you know, but community self-help is something that's had a long American tradition.

     So. perhaps you could fill us in — those of us who don't automatically know what you're talking about when you talk about "What they wanted and what they were trying to do" — about exactly what you think those things might be.  That way we might have a solid base for discussion.

     Unless you actually tell me what you think "they" are thinking and trying to do, I have no idea if I agree with you at all.  And I might even be one of "them."  In which case, we could have a person to person discussion instead of one of those roundabout discussions where everybody talks about people who aren't in the room.

     I am a liberal tending to left wing radical, and would be happy to talk directly.          
Dadygoose
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A Communist country


20 posted 03-21-2010 02:00 PM       View Profile for Dadygoose   Email Dadygoose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dadygoose

I leave others to their religious beliefs.

Hey, nobody's human!

Bob K
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21 posted 03-22-2010 04:28 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     It's not how you deal with the religious beliefs of others that concerns me, it's how you address my confusion about exactly what you are trying to say about my politics and the people who find similar politics reasonable.  When I ask you to address me on this basis, you take refuge in wit.  

     My religious background is Jewish.  My practice is Taoist.  My political thinking is liberal edging toward radical, certainly further left than commonly described here; though not marxist, I've at least read at the man.

     Your confusion of my religion and my politics are, I suppose, understandable.  Your position about our chief executive confuses me.  The President is not my favorite person in the world, but then he has a history of making folks on the left fume.  He has done so at least since his time in Law School.  I didn't vote for him because I thought he was my perfect candidate, and I think he needs a lot of backbone injected into him on civil rights and on other issues beloved by people on the left.  I find him remarkably Republican in the old-fashioned sense of the term, from the time when the two parties actually still spoke to each other.  

     I voted for him because I thought he could work with the Republicans and because I thought he would be willing to push things through that were dear to my heart.  Things like health care.  I still have hopes that he will repeal the PATRIOT Bill, and that he will undo some of the civil right travesties that it unleashed on the public.  I still hope for a balanced budget once again.  I want to take care of the poor and the disadvantaged.

     He is at least starting with a version of health care —
not to my satisfaction, but then I think he's doing a good enough job of governing for any number of reasons.  I think perfection is impossible.  I take pleasure in the good enough.

     It seems a fair bet that you disagree, yet when I ask you to talk about it, you avoid the discussion.

     I meditate on occasion.  Today I turned to a chapter in "The Analects," a different tradition than the one that I usually put my meditative time into, and up popped this little piece from my David Hinton Translation.  I've been failing at this miserably all day, and look forward to failing at it miserably all day tomorrow.  If I'm lucky, I shall fail at it miserably for quite a long time and be very clear about it. "The Master had freed himself of four things:  idle speculation, certainty, inflexibility and conceit."  This is from Chapter IX, if it matters to you.

     I need to go and spend some time with my inflexibility, conceit, certainty and idle speculation now, at least until I can start laughing at myself a little bit more spontaneously.  Foolishness deserves a certain amount of celebration.
Bob K
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22 posted 03-22-2010 04:29 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     If you want to leave others to their religious beliefs, though, you should have reconsidered the language of your opening posting, shouldn't you?

    I mean, really?
Bob K
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23 posted 03-23-2010 07:54 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



"Be proud of your DNA"

     I noticed the above under your author's name to the left.  I didn't earn it, why should I be proud of it?  It's not an achievement, is it?

     D-Goose, you puzzle me.
Dadygoose
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since 01-01-2010
Posts 160
A Communist country


24 posted 03-27-2010 05:06 PM       View Profile for Dadygoose   Email Dadygoose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dadygoose

Since the United States is now a Communist country, ruled for life by the careless and arbitrary whim of an out-of-control, unscrupulous, militant Marxist demagog who has never operated a business and who has not yet escaped from adolescence, we can forget all about liberty and human rights, representative republicanism and concepts such as individual worth.  From now on, the hammer and sickle will be our emblem, the hammer will enforce compliance with every dictate of the state, and the field of stars will be replaced by mud.  the currency will sport a new design and a new slogan: in doggie doggie we trust, featuring the likeness of, well, you know who He is.
Everyone will have everything and everything will be free, except for what remains of the rich, stinking borzois class, which will have everything taken from them.  Everyone will have a job, but no one will need to work; because it’s unfair to make people work if they don’t want to, except for those remaining elements of the rich class, who will be reduced to below the level of serfdom and will have to grow rice for the rest of us.  They will be administered socialist revolutionary people commie justice.  Someone like Pol pot or Chairman Mao would be needed to implement the slave labor program, which will focus on the misdeeds of people without color, the former arch oppressors of the people, who, of course, deserve no mercy from the people.  These criminals will be dealt with in new, modern concentration camps, which will feature state-of-the-art elevators and pressurized crematoria.  But the state will save its worst brutalities on persons who value, cherish or produce, who act and think for themselves, that is, on you and me.
As for the old, greedy, oppressive, selfish, stinking, decadent and not so decent relics of the old, order, such as bankers, Jews, specks, chinks, degos honki,brownies, insurance companies etc, they will be dealt with by and by.  And the lion will eat straw.  And there will be no more war anymore, other than the one against people who do not want to be re-educated, criminals all who still insist they are free.
And there will be no exploitation anymore, except of those who deserve to be exploited, of course.
And that screeching, profane, coarse, illiterate, vulgar, racist pastor?  Why, he can come out of hiding now, if that’s where he’s been, for he would no longer need to dam an Amerika where all has been set Wright.  And since god, now spelled without a capital g, has no place in a Communist state, the Wrong reverent need never worry about god anymore, and may even be the first to dam him.
I have to stop now because a squad of heavily armed Braun-shirts is tramping by outside, looking in windows to see what the enemies of the people are up to, and I don’t want them to see what I am writing, even if they can’t read Braille.
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