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SO how's Health Care Going?

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Balladeer
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0 posted 01-15-2010 09:56 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Drug companies threatening to oppose health bill
AP

    WASHINGTON – The drug industry is threatening to end its support for President Barack Obama's health overhaul effort because of a rift with the administration over protecting brand-name biotech drugs from low-cost generic competitors.

In an e-mail obtained Friday by The Associated Press, the president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America told the trade group's board members that "we could not support the bill" if the industry is given less than 12 years of competitive protection for the expensive products.

Obama and House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., are leading the drive to shorten that period, which proponents argue would be a boon to consumers.

The pharmaceutical industry has been a crucial supporter of Obama's health effort, having spent many tens of millions of dollars on advertising and lobbying in support. Drug companies should profit from the millions of additional people who would be able to afford health coverage under the legislation.

The threat comes with White House officials and Democratic congressional leaders nearing an agreement on compromise legislation reshaping the nation's health care system.

Among groups whose members are calling the White House and congressional leaders in support of the 12 years was the Massachusetts Biotechnology Council, representing about 350 biotech firms.

Massachusetts is where a Republican is threatening to capture the Senate seat long held by the late Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., in next Tuesday's special election. That could make Obama reluctant to support a policy that could anger employees of one of that state's most important industries. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_biotech_drugs_5


'Very angry' Democrat sounds alarm
By JOHN BRESNAHAN & PATRICK O'CONNOR | 1/15/10 4:41 AM EST

Democrats moved closer to a final deal on health care reform Thursday — and for some vulnerable members, the end can’t come soon enough.
In an emotional talk with other Democrats on the Ways and Means Committee this week, North Dakota Rep. Earl Pomeroy said the protracted debate is hurting him so badly back home that he might as well retire if it drags on much longer.

A Democrat who attended the Ways and Means session said Pomeroy was “very angry” as he spoke about the delay. “Other folks were upset, but he was the maddest by far.”
“I believe Congress needs to resolve fairly quickly this protracted health care debate,” Pomeroy told POLITICO on Thursday. “We have a number of other issues that haven’t been able to get enough attention, because health care is taking up all the floor time, all of the attention. We need to move on.”

“I would prefer to take this vote soon,” added first-year Rep. John Boccieri (D-Ohio). “We’ve got to get our focus back to creating jobs, especially back in Ohio, where I feel we’ve suffered disproportionately. So I would prefer to see this come very quickly.” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31530.html


Frank: Health reform dead if Coakley loses

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said Friday that if Republicans prevail the Massachusetts Senate seat, health care reform is dead. "If Scott Brown wins, it'll kill the health bill," Frank told reporters, although he added that he thought Democrat Martha Coakley would defeat Brown.

Losing the Massachusetts race presents a nightmare scenario for Democrats, many of whom would want to pass the legislation before Brown is seated. But Democrats would face an onslaught of criticism from Republicans, as well as cold feet from rank and file. And the party isn't united on what exactly would happen following a defeat. http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0110/Frank_Health_reform_dead_if_Coakley_loses.html


Good thing government takeover of health insurance is more important than employment, isn't it?

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1 posted 01-15-2010 09:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Oh, I forgot about the references to the unions screaming about the cadillac tax plans. Oh, well...you get the idea.
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2 posted 01-16-2010 09:03 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON — President Obama agreed Thursday to soften a proposed tax on high-cost insurance plans, but work continues on several remaining sticking points in the health care legislation — including the thorny issue of abortion.

The agreement on the controversial tax, reached with the nation's largest labor unions after marathon negotiating sessions at the White House, partly answered how lawmakers will pay for billions of dollars in subsidies that will help millions of uninsured Americans afford coverage.

Days after Obama stepped up his involvement in the talks, the White House announced it had struck a deal with labor leaders who had been opposed to a 40% tax on high-priced plans included in the Senate's bill. Labor had fought the tax because many union workers have bargained for high-end benefit packages in recent years instead of pay raises.

Under the agreement, health care plans negotiated under collective bargaining would be exempt until 2018, five years after non-union health plans, said AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, who held a conference call with reporters. Also, the cap for what defines a high-cost plan would increase by $1,000 to $24,000 a year for a family, Trumka said.

The tax was originally projected by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office to raise $149 billion over 10 years. Labor leaders said the new concessions would decrease that number by $60 billion. The White House did not say how it would make up the difference.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-15-health-care-bill-compromise-democrats_N.htm?csp=34&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomWashingt on-TopStories+%28News+-+Washington+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
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3 posted 01-17-2010 04:42 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


You missed one Mike.

Grinch opposes the crippled health care bill

The original bill I read was imperfect but workable. The current version is flawed and unworkable and, far from improving the US health care system is more likely hasten its collapse.

The ironic thing is that both Republicans and Democrats will claim victory if it is passed, the Republicans for managing to force as many fundamental changes as they have and the Democrats for getting some kind of “health care reform” passed. The reality is that both should be allocated an equal amount of blame for allowing the enactment of what is possibly the worst and most damaging piece of legislation in American history.

When presented with the final Bill Obama should throw it back to the idiots that have eviscerated it and say “Sorry – that’s not good enough, America deserves better”.

Unfortunately he won’t, he’ll claim victory along with the rest, content in the knowledge that when health care collapses it’ll be another Presidents problem.

Ron has said several times in this forum that people ultimately get what they deserve, there was a time when I thought he was completely wrong but watching the health care reform debacle play out I think that I’m beginning to understand what he means.

My congratulations to both the Republicans and the Democrats of America – you deserve it.

.
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4 posted 01-17-2010 09:42 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What changes did the Republicans force? Most if not all of the amendments that they did introduce in committee were voted down. These bills have been amended and held up by bickering Democrats, not the Republicans.
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5 posted 01-17-2010 11:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Health overhaul leaves gap for disabled workers


WASHINGTON – Disabled by chronic back pain and unable to afford medical insurance, Lea Walker hoped President Barack Obama's health care overhaul would close a coverage gap that has trapped her and millions of other workers.
It won't.

Although disabled workers can expect improvements, the legislation moving toward final passage in Congress doesn't deliver the clean fix that advocates for people with serious medical conditions hoped for. Some of the neediest could find themselves still in limbo.

At any given time, an estimated 1.8 million disabled workers languish in the Medicare coverage gap, a cost saver instituted nearly 40 years ago. Many, like Walker, are uninsured. Lawmakers had hoped to eliminate the gap as part of health care overhaul, but concluded it would be too expensive.

The alternatives now in the legislation aren't exactly seamless. For example, a new insurance pool for high-risk cases that Obama asked Congress for could run out of money within a year or two of its inception.

The failure to repeal the Medicare waiting period illustrates the difficult trade-offs Democratic lawmakers faced to keep the costs of the legislation from ballooning. Indeed, if the bill passes Congress and is signed by Obama, an estimated 18 million eligible Americans would remain uninsured, many still unable to afford coverage, even when it's fully in place in 2019.


Denise, we'll have to ask the Republicans that are in those closed door negotiations....oh, wait! There aren't any...
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6 posted 01-17-2010 09:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Dems look at bypassing Senate health care vote
AP Associated Press

BOSTON – A panicky White House and Democratic allies scrambled Sunday for a plan to salvage their hard-fought health care package in case a Republican wins Tuesday's Senate race in Massachusetts, which would enable the GOP to block further Senate action.

The likeliest scenario would require persuading House Democrats to accept a bill the Senate passed last month, despite their objections to several parts.

House Democrats, especially liberals, viewed those compromises as vital because they view the Senate-passed version as doing too little to help working families. Under the Senate-passed bill, 94 percent of Americans would be covered, compared to 96 percent in the version passed last year by the House.

The House plan would increase taxes on millionaires while the Senate plan would tax so-called Cadillac, high-cost health insurance plans enjoyed by many corporate executives as well as some union members.

The plan is highly problematic. House liberals already are bristling over changes the Senate forced upon them earlier, and some may conclude that no bill is better than the Senate bill. Meanwhile, some moderate Democrats may abandon the health bill altogether after seeing a Republican win Kennedy's seat in strongly Democratic Massachusetts.

Republican activists openly scoffed at the notion of Democrats passing the highly contentious health package after a GOP takeover of Kennedy's Senate seat. But some Democrats said failure to pass a health bill will cripple their ability to tell voters this November that they accomplished anything with their control of the House, Senate and White House. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100118/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_massachusetts_senate
Balladeer
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7 posted 01-25-2010 10:16 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON – Democratic congressional leaders are uniting around their last, best hope for salvaging President Barack Obama's sweeping health care overhaul.

Their plan is to pass the Senate bill with some changes to accommodate House Democrats, senior Democratic aides said Monday. Leaders will present the idea to the rank and file this week, but it's unclear that they will have the votes to move forward.

Last week's victory by Republican Scott Brown in Massachusetts cost Democrats the 60th vote they need to maintain undisputed control of the Senate, jeopardizing the outcome of the health care bill just when Obama had brokered a final deal on most of the major issues.

"We've put so much effort into this, so much hard work, and we were so close to doing some significant things. Now we have to find the political path that brings us out. And it's not easy," the No. 2 Senate Democrat, Dick Durbin of Illinois, said Monday.

The new strategy is as politically risky as it is bold. There is widespread support for Obama's goals of expanding coverage to nearly all Americans while trying to slow costs. But polls show the public is deeply skeptical of the Democratic bills, and Republicans would certainly accuse Democrats of ignoring voters' wishes.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100126/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

Yep, that's what it is. The Dems could care less what the people think or want. The only thing important to them is that they get their way. This is just another example....
threadbear
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8 posted 01-26-2010 01:30 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

One of several things I enjoy about Politics, are the great Sherlock Holmes-type puzzles that arise.
Take for instance, the ‘As-Of-1-25-10’ Health Care Plan:

There appears to be a no-win scenario for the Democrats.  
IF THEY PASS THE BILL IN SENATE
1. Obama Will Look good to the Moderate-Dem’s, and bad to the Progressive Dems.
2. Nancy Pelosi will be out of bullets in her political guns, and will be wildly blamed
for the bare-bones bill that passes
3. Every fence-sitter Dem will demand a piece of the Bribery Pie that benefited
Louisiana, Nebraska
4. Independents will vote Against Dems, saying that they didn’t listen to complaints.
5. Republicans will wait until they obtain power again, and further neuter the existing bill.

IF THEY DON’T PASS THE BILL IN SENATE
1. Far Left Dem’s will further eat their own; in other words, Leftists Dem’s won’t
be happy with ANY passable bill version that is watered down
2. Independents will see the Liberals as push-overs, and in-fighters,
which HAS to have some effect in 2010 on incumbents
3. Republicans will ride the Tea Party successes, calling it their own,
and further missing the point entirely of the Tea Partiers.
4. Any further MAJOR legislation will largely be dead, UNLESS the Dem’s
get ahold of a universally liked program that Independents also support.
5. Obama will HAVE to go Centrist, toward the middle ground, to keep any
semblance of Higher Control.  The problem is, he’s NOT a Centrist at all.  What Bill Clinton could pull off, Obama can't.

Flash back to October, 1993.    Bill and Hillary join hands and announce the Health Security Act.
It advocates both Universal Health Care and single-payer government-run systems, exactly
as Bill stated in his election campaigns.   The architect of the 1,342 page bill was Hillary.  
There was no consensus then either, on the urgency of passing such a sweeping bill.  The
Republicans regained the Senate and amended it to death.  
Some say that the bill's failure cost Hillary the 2008 Presidential bid, citing how ineffective she might be if put in charge of ANOTHER go-round as President.  
Bottom line:  It cost her.
and it will cost Obama.

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9 posted 01-26-2010 09:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON – Democrats retreated Tuesday from a quick push to pass President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, lacking a workable strategy to salvage the sweeping legislation that has consumed Congress for more than a year.

"There is no rush," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said after a meeting of Senate Democrats. His comments came as two centrists said they would oppose the plan Democratic leaders were considering to reconcile differences between the House and Senate bills and put comprehensive legislation on Obama's desk.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Talk about the Potomac Two-Step!

Obama declares he wants  health care before the congressional break.
Obama wants health care before Christmas.
Pelosi delares there WILL be health care by Christmas.
Massachusetts enema given by voters.
Pelosi decares there is "no rush".
Obama declares he will focus on jobs instead.
Democrats claim they will go ahead with health care,
Reid declares "there is no rush".

I'm reminded of the book by Casey Stengel about the New York Mets, "Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?" Difference is...this isn't a game.
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10 posted 01-27-2010 08:36 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Backroom health care deals fuel voter anger
AP


WASHINGTON – Special legislative favors, especially one designed to secure a Nebraska senator's vote for the embattled health care package, ignited so much public outrage that President Barack Obama is calling them a mistake and House leaders say the bill can't be resurrected unless such sweetheart deals are scrapped.

Obama says Americans were understandably upset by the backroom dealmaking that he called ugly. In a cruel twist, the reaction helped elect a Republican senator in Massachusetts last week, putting the health legislation in peril.


(so why did he make them?)

Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the No. 3 House Democrat, said Tuesday the House may be able to pass the Senate health bill — and salvage Obama's top domestic priority — if the offending items are deleted.


(another day, another direction...and I thought jobs was supposed to be Obama's top domestic priority)


"We've got to get rid of that Nebraska stuff, we've got to get rid of the Louisiana stuff," Clyburn said, referring to provisions inserted to help secure the votes of holdout Democratic senators Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana.

Obama, speaking to ABC News this week, said, "I didn't make a bunch of deals." But he acknowledged making "a legitimate mistake" by letting White House and congressional negotiators include the items during last month's closed-door negotiations.

.

(so how many constitute a bunch? Looks like buck passing time. Obama only LET the negotiators include the deals....I'm sure they appreciate that comment)
.

Asked about the condemnation of the Nebraska deal, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Tuesday, "All senators, Democrats and Republicans, work hard to represent the states and the needs of their states."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_dealmaking

He said he has kept "the promises we made about increased transparency" at the White House, even though he once had advocated televising health care negotiations on C-SPAN.

Really?? Show us where, Mr. President.....
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11 posted 01-27-2010 07:47 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Near as I can tell, any actual health care reform is dead and has been dead for several months.  It was dead before the Massachusetts election.  I think it died because President Obama is probably further to the Right in real terms than Dwight D. Eisenhower, and lacked the political will to push for and actual single payer health plan.  It died because the Democrats in the Senate have a substantial number of members in their caucus who are Democrats in name only and were in the pockets of the health insurance industry.  I think the Republicans played the politics very well indeed, and threw every delaying tactic they could think of and a few that they had to manufacture into the hopper, hoping that something would cause the sausage making machine to jam.  This included Abortion, and, if they could have found a way, would have included the Communist Threat.

     The delight of the Republicans is instructive.

     Maybe they can find a way of keeping the system unchanged or keeping the costs of health care from rising beyond one sixth of gnp.  The fact that they have created a situation where it requires 60% of the senate to disagree with them instead of 50% seems uncomfortable to me, and that they have tried to make so many of the day to day issues of government issues that require a supermajority rather than a majority seems to me to represent an attempt to subvert the electoral process.  Clearly they either don't see things this way or don't care.  In real terms it is a distinction without a difference.

     None of this lets the Current administration off the hook for its pallid failure in leadership.  Their backbone has all the steely springlike strength of a wet frosted flake.  President Obama, for all the complaints levied against him by the right, may be a fair centrist Republican leader, but he is not acting in the way the country asked him to act when he was elected, as a more solidly liberal leader.

     Health care is doing badly, and I believe the country could be doing better as well at this particular point in time.

     Perhaps this may be a somewhat broader reply to the question asked, but it is all that a somewhat soured mood allows me to offer at this particular time.  I trust that the rest of you are feeling better than I am.
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12 posted 01-27-2010 08:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON – Hoping to rescue his prized health care overhaul and revive his presidency as well, Barack Obama appealed in his State of the Union address for support for the plan that is in severe danger in Congress, urging dispirited Democrats not to abandon the effort.

So now it's back on. It's gone from on to off to on to off to on half a dozen times in a week.

Acknowledging frustration at the government's habit of spending more than it has, he is seeking a three-year freeze on some domestic spending (while proposing a 6.2 percent, or $4 billion, increase in the popular arena of education and supporting the debt-financed jobs bill) and is announcing he is creating a bipartisan deficit-reduction task force.

"Let's try common sense," Obama said in the speech excerpts. "Let's invest in our people without leaving them a mountain of debt."


I just don't understand. Doesn't Obama realize what he is saying? He talks about the public being tired of back door deals....while he is the one holding them. He speaks about the frustration of the government spending more money than it has....while he's doing the spending. He talks about not leaving us with a mountain of debt....while he's the one doing it. Everything he is criticizing....he is doing! Does he really think the public is so blind they don't see that? Polls indicate they aren't.

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13 posted 01-27-2010 08:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

From TIME....

Liberals (in the blogosphere, at the grassroots, and in Congress) complain that the President is a spineless, incompetent quitter. Conservatives (on Fox News Channel and talk radio, at Tea Party confabs, and in Congress) insist he is a panicky, on-the-run liberal. The Old Media sputters that he is a flailing, directionless Jimmy Carter redux. (See pictures of President Obama's first year in office.)

In just over a year, Obama has gone from a hopemonger destined to change America and revitalize the Democratic Party to a foundering President - from a man determined to bring America's best values to a capital gone bad to a man who has reinforced everything the country hates about government and politics.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100127/us_time/08599195710900
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14 posted 02-05-2010 10:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON – No, maybe he can't. President Barack Obama, who insisted he would succeed where other presidents had failed to fix the nation's health care system, now concedes the effort may die in Congress.

The president's newly conflicting signals could frustrate Democratic lawmakers who are hungry for guidance from the White House as they try to salvage the effort to extend coverage to millions of uninsured Americans and hold down spiraling medical costs. Obama's comments Thursday night came hours after Republican Scott Brown was sworn in to replace the late Edward M. Kennedy, leaving Democrats without their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and Obama's signature health legislation with no clear path forward.

It appeared to be a shift in tone for the issue the "Yes we can" candidate campaigned on and made the centerpiece of his domestic agenda last year. In a speech to a joint session of Congress in September, Obama declared: "I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last. ... Here and now we will meet history's test."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100206/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Bingo! There you have it. It's all Obama.
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15 posted 02-05-2010 11:15 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Copy and paste, copy and paste. Doesn’t your pointy finger get awfully tired, Balladeer?
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16 posted 02-06-2010 12:14 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Wouldn't it be more productive to stop the ad hominem attacks, the mockery, sarcasm, nit picking and stick to discussing facts and the real issues? - Jennifer
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17 posted 02-06-2010 01:11 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


"Everything you post MUST belong to you. Copyright infringements will be removed!"

As I recall, regarding copyrighted material, Ron said posting a few lines was ok. But article after article, isn't that a bit much?
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18 posted 02-06-2010 04:10 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


    
Hey Mike,

         I'd find it useful if you'd make a statement about what you think about the status of the health care Bill itself.  I've gotten the fact that you're in love with President Obama and that you love the Democratic congress — both houses — with a deep and abiding passion.  But a clear discussion about what you think and feel about the current state of the health care bill would be helpful.

     You have been letting magazines do a lot of your talking for you here, and I appreciate the extra depth they provide, and the way they can help to bolster a case and add facts when needed.  But a bit your what you think about the situation would add a bit of information that I've gotten out of touch with.  I know you're against it now, as usual, but I've gotten out of touch with the where's and whys of the deatils of your objections, and I don't want to get too far away from talking about those as well as presenting my own point of view as well.

     Please?

Mr. Bob
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19 posted 02-06-2010 07:29 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jennifer, surely you can post an objection without the "the mockery, sarcasm, nit picking and not stick to discussing facts and the real issues" that you feel we shouldn't be doing, right?

You may issue a formal complaint or not bother reading it...but that wouldn't be as much fun as getting little zingers in there, would it?
JenniferMaxwell
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20 posted 02-06-2010 08:37 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Zingers? You mean like the one-liners you sometimes post at the bottom of copy and paste articles or in response to what someone else has said?

Anyway, would be a shame if, instead of being a discussion forum. the Alley deteriorates into a battleground for dueling with articles.

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (02-06-2010 09:33 AM).]

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21 posted 02-06-2010 06:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

and a worse shame if it is nothing more than a place to use the mockery, sarcasm and nit-picking you claim doesn't belong here....but seems to keep appearing.
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22 posted 02-06-2010 06:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, I really didn't initiate this thread to point out anything I think about health care. It is simply a running record of what is actually happening with it. The headlines seem to change daily. Pelosi says she will get it through. Pelosi says there is no rush. Pelosi says she will overcome all barriers to get it passed as soon as possible. Obama follows along the same lines. As I said, this is just a running record of what is actually happening with the health care bill.

What do I think about it? I think it's dead...RIP. My hope is that it will have generated enough interest in health care reform that the powers that be will go after the things they can change....like insurance companies, lawyers and pharmaceutical companies, which can be done without a government takeover. I don't see it happening, however, because I don't believe Obama wants to go that route.

Time will tell....
JenniferMaxwell
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23 posted 02-06-2010 09:56 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

After being away from the site for months, I popped back in just out of curiosity and found that mockery, sarcasm, nit-picking and ad hominem attacks were still being used in the Alley to belittle those who don't share your conservative views, Balladeer. Perhaps in an attempt to discourage them from posting?

Also, some of the threads looked like more like billboards than discussion boxes, papered layer over layer with your copy and paste articles presenting one, often very narrow, point of view.  The constraints most of us have on our time would make it nearly impossible to respond in a thoughtful manner, using our own words, even to the articles posted in just this thread. Seemed to me like the forum was being spammed, used in a way I feel pretty sure was never intended. A few lines quoted from an article to start off a discussion seems reasonable, but not article after article.  

Anyway, since in your 3 minute poem you invited me to add my two cents, there’s a ha’penny’s worth. I’ll reserve the rest for later.

Balladeer
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24 posted 02-06-2010 10:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

mockery, sarcasm, nit-picking and ad hominem attacks were still being used in the Alley to belittle those who don't share your conservative views, Balladeer.

Jenn, really, don't bother. You seem intent on conducting some personal conflict with  sarcasm, mockery and now latest accusation but I'm really not interested in participating. If that was your only reason for coming back, you wasted the trip.

Have a nice evening.
 
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