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SO how's Health Care Going?

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Denise
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150 posted 03-26-2010 12:53 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

That was the statement that was online denouncing violence and bigotry, Bob. But rather than accepting it at face value, you go off on a grammar tangent. Fine. That doesn't change the fact that they, as well as Republicans, have denounced violence and bigotry. It's now on the record, something that can be pointed to the next time the MSNBC or HuffPo crew start their malignant assaults.
Denise
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151 posted 03-26-2010 01:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

http://nationalrepublicantrust.com/Obama_Lies_on_Healthcare.html
rwood
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152 posted 03-26-2010 03:34 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Can’t we have more fun without dog-pitting?

How about focusing on the choices, once put into action.

Pay...or Pay.

Dang.

Can I at least toss in a bit extra to afford my anonymously sponsored citizen a T-Shirt for attending our bankrupted Gov’s Bread & Circus show?  I think it should say something like: “WHAT! NO HAT!?”

Be patient. Hats will be a most sensible accessory next year. They should be designed to fashionably conceal all evidence of participation in the government sponsored Free Group Lobotomy.

But, in time and slip-away of trends and the revealing of bottom lines: Even those with lobotomies will realize how they can’t depend on a Government to take care of them.

Especially one that’s so bankrupt a sticker is worth more than our funny money.

Don’t hate on me. The check for my fine will be good. For now.
Grinch
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153 posted 03-26-2010 04:09 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Even those with lobotomies will realize how they can’t depend on a Government to take care of them.


My government health care system is taking care of me just fine. Fortunately no lobotomy so far but my heart surgery worked a treat and the aftercare has been nothing short of exceptional. I was at the hospital today in fact, I had a stress ECG, ultrasound and full blood test. They charged me 80 pence for car parking, which I thought was a bit steep for an hour, but I guess I can live with it.

My prescription charge cost a bit more, my wife paid it online last week – it was £104 for 12 months but covers any medication I might need in that period.
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/1127.aspx

.
Bob K
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154 posted 03-26-2010 05:27 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Interesting posting reference, Denise.  Remember when  I said misinformation and disinformation?  Much of this stuff would fall under the disiinformation part of my statement.

     It is illegal to cancell your health care for getrting sick.  It is not illegal, however, for insurance to be cancelled for "pre-existing conditions.  This is one of the reasons that rape may be considered a "pre-existing condition."  The insurance industry knows that  folks who have been raped tend to come down with expensive things to treat, such as depression, and occasionally aids.    They also know that rapes are very underreported because of humiliation, shyness, and the depression itself.   Nor is it uncommon for insurance companies to refuse to cover or to refuse to pay for the full treatment for one condition or another for reasons that have tenuous relations with actual medical necessity.  This has happened to me.

     Here in California, the insurance appeals process is primarily within the control of the insurance companies.  You can rarely get these decisions reversed, but it is rare indeed.  The iunsurance companies do their very best not to do anything illegal; in practice, thios means acting in ways that won't lose them money, not that will necessarily be good for the patients.

     You notice, for example, how they mention that each state regulates its own insurance and must justify any hikes.  You do not notice how the companies made a strong effort to get this system set aside during the run up to this bill.  You may also have missed the exchange I had with Mike in which he quoted an insurance company executive as saying that they would need a 200-300% rate hike this coming January.  This is to offset a rise in their payouts from 60% of benefits to 85% of benefits with the new law.

     If your sympathies are still with the poor insurance companies on this point, why not check where the payouts are in relation to premiums in terms of other forms of insurance?

     Pardon me while a bust a gut laughing at the notion of union guys with their pinkies in the air drinking latee coffee drinks while you act like insurance executives, bankers and the PR people are down-home folk who have little or no sophistication.  Save us O Lord from all tghose Yale and Harvard educated Union Members!

     I used to know an insurance commissioner, by the way,  from Massachusetts.  He did not think well of the insurance industry.  He also, to be fair, thought that the Massachusetts No Fault insurance  wasn't such a wonderful idea.  

     You might hate the President, and I don't always love him myself, but the article by the insurance company Flack was seriously misleading and disgusting.  Why Oh why would you take the word of people from the insurance industry?
rwood
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155 posted 03-26-2010 05:53 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Dear Grinch,

Your heart is precious! As well as your brain, which even with a hypothetical lobotomy, you read the plan, so you’re a few neuro-signals ahead of most.

Would you trust your heart to our current plan? I think not.

Your health care sounds so free, but I’m not inclined to believe that either. I believe we’ve touched on this before. You actually do/did pay quite a sum, yes?  In taxes.

Medications are a whole ‘nother animal here as you may be aware.

more later, must run, thanks.
Grinch
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156 posted 03-26-2010 07:00 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Would you trust your heart to our current plan?


Absolutely, positively NO.

quote:
Your health care sounds so free, but I’m not inclined to believe that either. I believe we’ve touched on this before. You actually do/did pay quite a sum, yes?  In taxes.


Absolutely, positively YES

It’s actually called National Insurance but it is a tax to all intents and purposes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance

.
Grinch
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157 posted 03-26-2010 08:01 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Whoops!

I didn’t give you the whole picture, the actual amount paid would be useful too.

The rate is a maximum of 11% of earnings over £110 per week up to a maximum of £844, earnings over £844 incur a charge of 1%.
For that you get Health Care, unemployment benefit (should you ever need it) and a state pension when you reach 65.

Here’s a calculator if you’re interested (I’m in category F btw).
http://nicecalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/Class1NICs1.aspx

[This message has been edited by Grinch (03-26-2010 08:45 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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158 posted 03-26-2010 08:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Could you give us some idea what the state pension benefits might be? Are they based on earnings, a set figure or what? Thanks!
Grinch
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159 posted 03-26-2010 08:25 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Here you go Jen - a list of all benifits available.
http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/stellent/groups/jcp/documents/websitecontent/dev_015666.pdf

.
Balladeer
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160 posted 03-26-2010 08:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The calculator gives a session timed out message.

Are the benefits you received taxable?
JenniferMaxwell
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161 posted 03-26-2010 08:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Wow, lots of benefits. Will take a while to go through them. And benefits are paid weekly, no waiting for a check to come in the first of the month.
Thanks for the info, Grinch.
Grinch
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162 posted 03-26-2010 08:38 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Hit the ‘start again’ button Mike.

Most benefits you receive aren’t taxable – here’s a list of those that are:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM76101.htm

Jen,

They’ll pay them directly into your bank account if you prefer.

.
Bob K
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163 posted 03-27-2010 06:54 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



      
Dear rWood,

          Loved your post.

     I vote we substitute olive and cherry pitting for dog-pitting, myself.  Though as the song suggests, It's better to be pitted than censored.

     Forgive me, these moods come over me from time to time.  I hardly know where the words come from.

     My Best, Bob Kaven
Denise
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164 posted 03-28-2010 10:43 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Why wasn't this cost factored into the Healtcare Bill?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=132629
JenniferMaxwell
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165 posted 03-28-2010 11:47 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

More Teabagger Hypocrisy:

With No Jobs, Plenty of Time for Tea Party

When Tom Grimes lost his job as a financial consultant 15 months ago, he called his congressman, a Democrat, for help getting government health care.

In the last year, he has organized a local group and a statewide coalition, and even started a “bus czar” Web site to marshal protesters to Washington on short notice. This month, he mobilized 200 other Tea Party activists to go to the local office of the same congressman to protest what he sees as the government’s takeover of health care.

Mr. Grimes, who receives Social Security, has filled the back seat of his Mercury Grand Marquis with the literature of the movement, including Glenn Beck’s “Arguing With Idiots” and Frederic Bastiat’s “The Law,” which denounces public benefits as “false philanthropy.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html
Balladeer
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166 posted 03-29-2010 12:21 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obviously, you're not getting an answer, Denise. Why am I not surprised?
Bob K
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167 posted 03-29-2010 01:04 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     1)  The estimate was partisan and not from the CBO.

     2)  The estimate gives the average wage of IRS folk in various jobs.

     Average means that you add everybody's money up, and divide by the number of folks, right?

     Everybody means everybody, from the lowest paid to the highest paid at all levels of seniority.  

     Only a small number of those are new hires, who are at the BOTTOM of the pay scale.

     This means that The Republicans want you to compare the lowest paid workers, the new hires that they say The President wants to hire,  with workers who have been there much longer and who have a much higher pay grade, doesn't it?

     They expect you to believe that el-cheapo new hires cost the same as expensive long term senior employees.  

     3)  This means that the Republicans in this committee counted on you not being able to figure this out for your selves.

     4)  They were right.  The Republicans bet they could lie to their constituents with figures and get away with it.  

     And they did.  

     5)  My Preference would have been to remain silent, but Mike's last post on the subject got under my skin.  I shouldn't have allowed that, but I did.  Sorry.
  
Denise
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168 posted 03-29-2010 05:45 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Bob, why wasn't any cost of having to hire 16,000 plus IRS workers to enforce Obamacare factored into the cost, entry level or otherwise? This was not even a part of any of the cost estimates for the Healthcare Bills that were sent to the CBO.
Balladeer
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169 posted 03-29-2010 08:42 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No apology needed, Bob. You gave a respectful answer to the best of your knowledge. Nothing wrong with that.

Those new hires must cost SOMETHING. Judging by the pay schedule for federal employees, which dwarfs the private sector, that something is not inconsiderable, especially when multiplied by thousands.
Grinch
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170 posted 03-29-2010 09:48 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Obviously, you're not getting an answer, Denise. Why am I not surprised?


Hopefully Mike you’re not surprised because you know that some of us will take their time to research the claims before addressing them.



Denise,

There’s a very good reason why you wouldn’t include any additional staff in the calculation of cost, that reason is that there’s not going to be a significant increase in staff, but even if there were any increase would be more than cancelled out by the increase in revenue.

It’s simply another straw man argument designed to scare the gullible.

.
Balladeer
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171 posted 03-29-2010 10:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Interesting to call almost 17,000 new hires not a significant number.

The increase in revenue? You must mean the taxes they will collect since they don't actually produce anything. Many of them will simply be auditing, checking companies and individuals for compliance to the new laws and taxes...nothing to bring revenue there.

To call it a straw man argument isn't that rational, IMO. It IS an argument that Dems would prefer to avoid, though.
Denise
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172 posted 03-29-2010 12:32 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Insignificant? In what universe, Bob?
Grinch
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173 posted 03-29-2010 12:37 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
To call it a straw man argument isn't that rational, IMO. It IS an argument that Dems would prefer to avoid, though.


You may be right about the Dems Mike, fortunately I ain’t one of them.



quote:
Interesting to call almost 17,000 new hires not a significant number.


It’s not significant because it’s a total fabrication, there’s no need and, more importantly, no intention to hire 17,000 new staff, the figure is a straw man invented by a bunch of Republicans who either haven’t thought things through or are hoping other people won’t notice. I could spend hours waxing lyrical about why employing 17,000 extra auditors would actually be cost neutral but I’d be wasting my time, and yours, because nobody is going to hire them.

Think about it Mike. Do the IRS increase their workforce by 17,000 every time they add an extra item that needs auditing to your tax return? Do they lay off 17,000 when they remove something?

Think about how an IRS audit works. You fill in a return and in about 90% of cases the IRS accept it. In 10% of cases, where there’s a reason to doubt your word or as a random check, they audit the information you’ve given them. In that case they’ll ask you to provide additional evidence that you’ve purchased Health Care – if you can there’s no problem, if you can’t you’ll get a fine.

.
Bob K
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174 posted 03-29-2010 12:46 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Denise, I appreciate you asking me the answer to that question, but I am not the source of your confusion here. Mike used the word insignificant here, not me.  I was too flummoxed by the bat guano and the actual size of the Republican Lie to assume that they would have the nerve to make THE WHOLE THING up.  I must thank Grinch for pulling the wool off my eyes about that one.  I merely pointed out that the Republicans were lieing again on a huge scale; I simply was too intimidated by the scale of their lie to realize how huge.

     WOW.

     Sorry, Denise, you're going to have to pretend these folks are telling the truth without dragging me into this one.
 
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