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SO how's Health Care Going?

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Huan Yi
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100 posted 03-08-2010 06:49 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“The government’s own data show that the typical American defined as poor (according to the traditional, pre-Obama poverty measure) has two color televisions, cable or satellite service, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He also has a car, air conditioning, a refrig­erator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family is not hungry, and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family’s essential needs. While this individual’s life is not opulent, it is far from the stark images conveyed by the mainstream media and liberal politicians.”

http://article.nationalreview.com/427180/obamas-new-poverty-measurement/robert-rec  tor?page=2


I’ve seen this data referred to before.   If true, I’m not sure if I’m poor, (or worst),  or being conned.  Just who then  are we hoping to help with such a massive program at the ant’s
expense?

.
JenniferMaxwell
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101 posted 03-08-2010 07:31 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The poverty level is defined by income, not by possessions which may have been given to you out of charity or compassion, picked up from curbside recycling or second hand stores, some so old or damaged as to be worthless even for scarp, or those you don’t actually own.

Those we’re trying to help are those unable to afford the astronomical costs of healthcare, those denied coverage/treatment by greedy insurance companies, those suffering for lack of affordable healthcare.
Bob K
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102 posted 03-09-2010 04:29 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

“The government’s own data show that the typical American defined as poor (according to the traditional, pre-Obama poverty measure) has two color televisions, cable or satellite service, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He also has a car, air conditioning, a refrig erator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family is not hungry, and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family’s essential needs. While this individual’s life is not opulent, it is far from the stark images conveyed by the mainstream media and liberal politicians.”



     I see him saying so.  I do not see him offering any references.  You'd think it would be a simple matter, though, for him to offer them if they are at hand.  If you've seen them somewhere, John, I'd appreciate any memory you have of where , though I understand you might not have any exact memory either.

     I might believe the media stuff, because, over the years, that's gotten a lot cheaper and you can get it on lay-a-way or you can rent it in some places.  Cars are pretty much essential for most adults, though the sorts of cars poor folks get are often cheap used cars that require large amounts of money at unpredictable intervals to keep them running.  They're often more expensive in the long run than a modest low cost new car if you can swing the down payment.  I don't know who this guy at the national review is checking with, but in the poor neighborhoods I lived in, there were a lot of laundromats, and they were social centers.  If you had a lot of furniture, it was often rented, as were computers printers, refrigerators. t.v.'s.  Child-care was often a big problem.  Depending on how the job market was doing, you might be on food stamps or not.  The notion about having enough to eat at the poverty line is not really very easy to swing.

     But, I'll tell you what, it's been a while since I've been poor that way.  Here's what I suggest to you as an experiment.  Go to one of the government web-sites and look up what the current povery level is for however many people you have in your family, and then, as an experiment, put exactly that much money aside for all your needs for one month — rent, food, car payments, electric, gas, water, fuel, entertainment, the whole shebang, and see how easy it is for you.  If it's simple, try it for three months, and see if that makes any difference.  Make a point of not spending any more on medical than you'd be able to spend at a poverty level, either.  Accept no more medical care than what you'd be able to get if you had poverty level and you had to fill out forms for medical treatment to qualify for any medical treatment under hospital medical treatment programs, and go wait in whatever lines that somebody on those programs would have to wait in.  See if you'd be accepted for whatever program you applied for or not.  Check and see how you're treated.  See if there's enough food, and see if the quality is the kind you'd feel happy with.  If your mortgage is paid off, chexck and see what sort of housing you'd be able to afford on the amount of money that somebody living at the poverty level would be able to fork out, and see what sort of appartment space that would buy you in which neighborhoods.

     What would your neighbors be like?

     How would you be able to afford to dress yourself and, if you're talking about family, the others in your household?

     This can be a very interesting experiment.  Try it.

    
Huan Yi
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103 posted 03-16-2010 12:59 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“Research shows lifestyle choices and behaviors drive 87.5 percent of the cost for health care claims.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589377,00.html?test=faces


Another comment I would like to know the
reference for.

.


Bob K
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104 posted 03-16-2010 11:17 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I would, too.  

     Though what's your experience with illnesses not related to ETOH, smoking, and Diet choices?  I suspect those three would account for a lot in terms of Cancer, heart disease, pulmunary disease and diabetes.  Were I to look, I'd probably want to look at data from the Framingham heart Study first off, then check and see what's available at the Harvard School of Public Health in terms of reference materials.

     What's your best guess?
JenniferMaxwell
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105 posted 03-17-2010 12:45 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Busy day quickie - healthcare discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY6Z3lCyfCQ
JenniferMaxwell
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106 posted 03-17-2010 09:48 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

As soon as health care passes, the American people will see immediate benefits. The legislation will:


* Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans;

* Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool;

* Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans;

* Lower seniors prescription drug prices by beginning to close the donut hole;

* Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage;

* Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans;

* Require plans to cover an enrollee's dependent children until age 26;

* Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing;

* Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions;

* Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-john-b-larson/he-top-ten-immediate-bene_b_501748.html
JenniferMaxwell
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107 posted 03-21-2010 11:45 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzL4L_FpLvE&feature=fvw
JenniferMaxwell
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108 posted 03-23-2010 08:11 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Health-care reform more popular after passage than before

The first poll taken entirely after the House vote bears that out: 50% were enthusiastic or pleased while 42% were angry or disappointed. Similarly, 49% thought this a good thing for the country while 40% thought it bad.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8000752

Denise
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109 posted 03-23-2010 10:40 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And now we hear from another 49%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/49_support_state_lawsuits_against_health_care_plan
Denise
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110 posted 03-23-2010 10:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It seems Obama is less popular than the bill he rammed through by hook or by crook.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/22/cnn-poll-majority-disapprove-of-obama-for-first-time/?fbid=FWf58aU2QsG
Balladeer
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111 posted 03-23-2010 11:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama also claimed that Pelosi was the greatest speaker the House has ever had (11% popularity) and Reid was among the greatest of the Senate Majority leaders (7% popularity).
Denise
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112 posted 03-24-2010 12:25 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Well there you go, he fibbed again!
Bob K
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113 posted 03-24-2010 01:27 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     It appear that the two of you believe that popularity is the same as greatness.  Let's see; Lincoln gets elected and a third of the country departs in protest, then close to half the remainder thinks he's a fink, and his popularity goes through enormous roller-coaster rides while in office.  

     It appears he's great now.  I think he's great, but if you applt the Mike and Denise Show's score to him, he's a pretty dismal failure.  

     I'd say that thinking is lacking snap and clarity, folks.  It's only 4% popular with me, so you know you must be wrong, judging greatness by immediate public opinion, and with me being the immediate public offering my public opinion.  So of course I must be right!

     It looks like the two of you must be really on to something here.  Do you want to hold a public opinion poll on gravity or the speed of light?

  
Balladeer
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114 posted 03-24-2010 08:06 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

My apologies, Bob. I had forgotten that liberals believe the entire country is stupid, except for them, of course.

Yes, greatness can be achieved without being popular. Capone was a great organizer. Hitler was a great exterminator. Willie Sutton was a great bank robber and OJ great at using kitchen utensils. Pelosi is great at disregarding any will of the people to strive for her own personal glory, regardless of the cost.

Since there are certainly more than 11% of the population that are Democrats, it would seem that even they have a hard time stomaching her or Reid....ad rightly so.
rwood
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115 posted 03-24-2010 10:04 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Freedom places in the negative.

Denise
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116 posted 03-24-2010 01:10 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

"Individuals will also be required to obtain health insurance or face a fine. Government subsidies will be available on a sliding scale for people making up to $43,000 per year (or nearly $90,000 per year for a family of four), but those who don't qualify for government subsidies should expect to pay about $5,000 a year for a policy on the exchange, while families should expect to pay about $15,000, says John Goodman, president, CEO and Kellye Wright Fellow of the National Center for Policy Analysis.

The penalty starts in 2014 at $95 or up to 1 percent of income for individuals, whichever is greater, and rises to $695 by 2016 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. Families pay heftier fines - $2,085 or 2.5 percent of income by 2016."
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=19135&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DPD

If my employer discontinues our coverage and opts to pay the employer fine instead and tells us we have to get our own insurance from the government exchange, this is what it will cost. I can't afford it. For 2 of us it would cost more than my mortgage payment. I wouldn't even be able to afford the fine. In what universe is this affordable?
JenniferMaxwell
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117 posted 03-24-2010 01:44 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Not to worry, I can put up a map showing where the free clinic is down in the combat zone. Many of us who haven't had access to healthcare insurance because of the cost or pre-existing conditions have been going there for years. We really don't recommend it, but it's a better option than going to jail in order to get the rescue inhaler or epipen we need but can't afford.

Many families are now paying more than $15000 a year for healthcare insurance and rates are going up. Welcome to their world.

Not really sure of the exact percentages off the top of my head, but think there will be help for those who would have to pay more than 8% of their income for healthcare insurance so maybe you'll be ok. I honestly hope so.

JenniferMaxwell
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118 posted 03-24-2010 02:24 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"The first year, consumers who did not have insurance would owe $95, or 1 percent of income, whichever is greater. But the penalty would subsequently rise, reaching $695, or 2 percent of income.

Families who fall below the income-tax filing thresholds would not owe anything. Nor would people who cannot find a policy that costs less than 8 percent of their income, said Sara R. Collins, a vice president at the Commonwealth Fund, an independent nonprofit research group."


"Premiums would also be capped at a percentage of income, ranging from 3 percent of income to as much as 9.5 percent."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/your-money/health-insurance/22consumer.html
Denise
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119 posted 03-24-2010 03:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I know where the free clinics are in my area, and I've actually had to use them for myself and my children at various times, Jen, but thanks anyway. And I'd rather do that again than have to pay almost 8% of my salary to the government for healthcare insurance.

How can these rates be considered affordable?
JenniferMaxwell
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120 posted 03-24-2010 03:24 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


If you’ve been paying less than 8%, compared to most families paying for their own insurance, you’ve been getting a heck of a deal. Now you know how it feels to walk a worried mile in their shoes.
Denise
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121 posted 03-24-2010 03:54 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

So it's okay with you if people with insurance through their employers lose it because of this new law, Jen, and are told that they have to purchase something that they cannot afford?
JenniferMaxwell
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122 posted 03-24-2010 05:21 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Stupak, the Michigan Democrat whose last-minute compromise on abortion guaranteed passage of the bill Sunday, said callers have left messages for him saying, “You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you.”

“My wife still can’t answer the phone,” Stupak told POLITICO Tuesday. The messages are “full of obscenities if she leaves it plugged in. In my office, we can’t get a phone out. It’s just bombarded.”

Politico also reports that “Rep. Dennis Cardoza, a Blue Dog Democrat from California, said he’s gotten physical threats over health care reform.” “There are some folks that identified themselves as being members of the tea party called, my staff has gotten to know their names over time, and they have been very loud and very ugly,”
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/24/stupak-death-threat/
Bob K
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123 posted 03-24-2010 06:04 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     I believe that it's employers who are mandated to supply coverage, and even then, only when the number of employees is over 100.  Employers get a 35% tax credit for doing so per employee, and the employee does not have to buy the plan through the employer.  The Employer is only obligated to pay half the cost of the policy.  The employer can pay more if he or she wishes, of course, and the employee is supposed to pay the rest, as is currently the situation.  People whose income levels fall below a certain point, and I'm uncertain where that point is but I believe it's 133% of poverty level, will have government help in paying their premium, and the money that individuals pay themselves toward insurance premiums now becomes a tax credit and can be used to reduce their income tax.

     The anticipation is that the inclusion of an addition 32,000,000 folks into the market should reduce premiums overall, so that the premiums should fall by 2014 to a more affordable level.  I'm not sure I find this creditable, myself, this last part.

     Since Denise' employer is over 100 people, if I remember correctly, then she should continue to be carried on that plan as long as she's working there.  She should of course check once the plan is passed and see how the final version reads.  
Denise
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124 posted 03-24-2010 06:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I just heard on the news, Bob, that it is employers with 30 employers or more who will be mandated or fined, $2,000 per employee. Since that's cheaper than the estimated cost of $5,000 per person for insurance, some may opt, out of economic necessity, to pay the fine inst4ead. Then that will leave the employee liable to purchase the $5,000 (per individual) or $15,000 (per family of 4) or be fined by the government.
 
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