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....And the Race is On

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Denise
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25 posted 12-23-2009 08:54 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes, Bob, I know what you meant, and I appreciate your willingness to find common ground wherever it may exist. I'm sorry that my response didn't convey that.
Bob K
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26 posted 12-23-2009 02:04 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Mike, you make it sound that everybody who doesn't agree with you is a crook or has to be bought in order to do something that many of us think is a matter of conscience.  I know you disagree with me here and in other places, but I'm not interested in being a crook and I don't believe that the folks in my party are any more crooked than yours.  In fact, I hold the actual hope that they may be less so.  I may even be correct, who knows?

     I think that it would have been better to pass with 51 votes in the Senate.  In fact, near as I can tell, these days it almost always takes sixty votes to get a bill through the Senate, which isn't the way I suspect it was supposed to be.  I think that the two parties were supposed to have such a difficult time mustering the two thirds to block or over-ride, that they were supposed to dicker and negotiate with each other.  Perhaps not.  But having almost every bill require getting a filibuster proof majority to get through instead of a simple majority was definitely not in the cards.  To have it thought as an inferior position seems to me to be a statement of how far the damage this partisanship has done seems to have gone into the heart of the democracy.

     You may safely put me down in the "I don't like this" column.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
Denise
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27 posted 12-23-2009 03:58 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I couldn't have said it any better:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/note.php?note_id=213042303434&id=24718773587&ref=nf
Grinch
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28 posted 12-23-2009 04:25 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I hope the bill, in its current eviscerated form, is kicked into touch.

If I were a Democrat Id certainly vote against it, wait for the current system to collapse, and start again from scratch.

Denise,

Not the old death panel twaddle again - don't you get tired of repeating that particular lie?


Balladeer
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29 posted 12-23-2009 04:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Calling Bob K! Calling Bob K!

Grinch called Denise's comments twaddle and accused her of repeating lies, both displays of disrespect (He had actually called my comments twaddle, too, but I guess you missed that)

As a man who claims to have the right and obligation to speak out when someone has been spoken to abusively in the Alley, no matter by whom,  I will wait for your condemnation of his comments.
      
Bob K
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30 posted 12-23-2009 06:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     The comments and the factuality of them are open to debate, aren't they?  Denise, I would assume, knows that the facts are in dispute.  And the comments were addressed to them and the disputed factuality.  If I thought he was being abusive of Denise, I would be upset with him, too.  I don't, however.

     To be clear it sometimes helps to ask, however.

     Grinch, Sir, were directing contempt and abuse at Denise, or did you find something about her assertions to be other than reasonable?   Or is there some other option that I may have overlooked that you've reacted to?

Curiously, Bob Kaven
Grinch
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31 posted 12-23-2009 07:16 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Grinch, Sir, were directing contempt and abuse at Denise


Mike seems to think so Bob and as a Moderator of these Forums I guess well have to take his word for it and accept his judgement on the matter.

quote:
someone has been spoken to abusively in the Alley


Denise,

I apologise for speaking to you in an abusive manner.

Mike,
I wont wait for the official email.

Ron,
Thanks for the chance to read and reply.

.
Bob K
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32 posted 12-23-2009 11:40 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



There you go, Mike.  The miscreant has been bearded in his den.  All is right with the world.  He has confessed.

     And all the time, I hadn't actually thought it was so bad.  That shows me, I guess.  I will let it be a lesson.

Yours, Bob
Balladeer
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33 posted 12-24-2009 12:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course you wouldn't think it bad, Bob. I wasn't the one who said it

Just proving a small point, nothing more....and my being a moderator has nothing to do with anything. I'm a mod in the Open forum. Here I'm just a twaddle peddler.
Mysteria
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34 posted 12-24-2009 01:20 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria



Merry Christmas All!
Mysteria
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35 posted 12-24-2009 06:14 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Reuthers On Health Reform

Now it is just a matter of ironing out the "kinks" I guess?
Balladeer
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36 posted 12-24-2009 06:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Very interesting, miss.. I think the US Chamber of Commerce summed it up quite well..

"The business community has been consistent in calling for health care reform, but the bill that was passed by the Senate today is counterproductive, does little to lower the cost of health care, and it is not reform. It implements crippling new taxes, and hurts our ability to create jobs at the worst possible time for the economy...

"We recognize that the health care debate is not over yet. We are hopeful that a conference between the Senate and House can bring all stakeholders back to the table. Since employers are the ones who will be responsible for putting this reform into practice, their concerns must be addressed."


No wonder Obama doesn't like them. The "kinks" are going to be very interesting. There are so many differences between the two, we are in for a very interesting time indeed.

Here are some of the kinks..
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091224/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_comparing_the_bills
Bob K
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37 posted 12-25-2009 01:30 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          I was doing some research for another topic and I ran across this photo, which I thought priceless.  I was hoping you might think the same, and anybody else who sense of humor run a bit to the raw side.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/10/your-tax-dollars-at-work-bovine-tailpipe-intervention/

Happy New Year!

Mr. Bob
Balladeer
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38 posted 12-25-2009 01:42 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I like it, Bob! If they could attach tailpipes to congressmen, they wouldn't even need the cow's participation.

I like the article, too. Certainly pokes a hole in the co2 doomsayers..

Happy holidays, Bob, to you and yours.
Denise
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39 posted 12-26-2009 08:57 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Merely more twaddle?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704254604574613992408387548.html
Huan Yi
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40 posted 12-26-2009 04:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


In the Indonesian capital of Jakarta, traffic moves as slowly as blood through a corpse. Streams of motorcycles part for SUVs and diesel-spewing buses, and everyone gets nowhere fast. The air is clogged from the vehicle exhaust and from the frequent forest fires that break out around Indonesia. Once home to some of the most extensive rainforests in the world, Indonesia is now losing trees at a faster rate than any other nation in the world, to flames but also to rampant logging. Since equatorial trees soak up carbon dioxide when they're alive and release the gas when they're cut down or burned, Indonesia's rapid deforestation is the main reason why this country of 245 million is the third-biggest carbon emitter in the world after the U.S. and China. But like other developing countries, the Indonesian government says it needs to focus on economic growth to raise its people out of poverty and that likely means that trees will be cut, cars will be added and carbon emissions will only go up.
Keep Indonesia in mind as the world digests the third and final chapter of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) latest assessment on global warming, which was released Friday morning in Bangkok. While the first two sections made for depressing reading nailing down the scientific basis for global warming and laying out nightmare scenarios of the havoc climate change could wreak the last chapter is comparatively optimistic. Drawing on the work of thousands of scientists vetted by officials from over 100 countries, the IPCC reported that future carbon emissions could be controlled using current technology like nuclear or renewable energy and that it could be done without bankrupting the global economy. "Measures to reduce emissions can, in the main, be achieved at starkly low costs, especially when compared with the costs of inaction," said Achim Steiner, Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), one of many prominent international environmental officials who attended the Bangkok press conference for the report's release. European Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimos drilled home the message: "There is no excuse for waiting."

But while the technological path to climate-change action is clear, the politics are getting even more complicated. As economic growth shifts to the developing world especially in Asia so will future carbon emissions. So whether the world can effectively combat climate change will be determined by countries like Indonesia and India and especially China, which could pass the U.S. as the world's top carbon emitter any day. . .
Developing nations make the point that they're not responsible for the vast majority of carbon dioxide hanging around in the atmosphere, which was put there by Western countries during their own development over the past 150 years. They argue that their own per-capita emissions rates are still far lower than those of Western nations, and that therefore climate change isn't their responsibility. True, but wrong. Future global warming will hinge on how we deal with future carbon emissions, most of which will come from developing Asia. The gravity of climate change politics has moved east, to China, India and Indonesia. Their decisions will largely determine what kind of world we'll be living in.


http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1617639,00.html


China, which just begun to develop, has already surpassed the US, and Indonesia,
primarily because its burning trees to make way for small time agriculture,(anyone remember the annual smoke clouding Korea that used to be reported), ranks third.  India . . . Now who thinks Asia is going to sign up?

Has everyone forgotten the decades of EPA here?


.
Denise
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41 posted 12-28-2009 12:02 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The following is an email I received:


Universal Health Care ????  No Thanks !!!

This article is from the "Investor's Business Daily."  It provides some very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:

U.S.     65%

England    46%

Canada     42%

Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:

U.S.    93%

England    15%

Canada    43%

Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:

U.S.     90%

England    15%

Canada     43%

Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:

U.S.    77%

England   40%

Canada    43%

Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:

U.S.     71

England   14

Canada     18

Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health":

U.S.    12%

England   2%

Canada     6%

I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" comparable to  England or  Canada .

Moreover, it was Sen. Harry Reid who said, "Elderly Americans must learn to accept the inconveniences of old age."  WELL, SHIP HIS BUTT TO  CANADA OR  ENGLAND !
Bob K
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42 posted 01-02-2010 01:58 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Denise,

          While I'm sure you got the email, Ms. Denise, I haven't.  So while I have the benefit of your referencing of that email, I don't have the thing itself, and I can't check it out for it's references.  The details, frankly, seem spurious to me, and need fact checking before I will take them at face value.  I believe somebody is lying to you about these details, and I want to know the article and the date, so I can see for myself.

     Could you forward them when you get a chance, please?

     Sincerely, Bob Kaven.

     I had a good New Year, by the way, and hope you did as well.
Denise
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43 posted 01-02-2010 08:46 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'll see what I can find, Bob.

I'm glad you had a nice New Year. I did too, thanks!
Denise
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44 posted 01-02-2010 09:57 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I couldn't find this in the archives of IBD, but some things you have to join to be able to read, so it could be in an article that I couldn't access. I did find other links citing studies that essentially seem to tell the same story:
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html
http://www.rollcall.com/news/34276-1.html?page=1
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/il10_kirk/healthcare_release.html
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/vernon/070226
http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/bg1973.cfm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1551098/Cancer-survival-rates-worst-in-western-Europe.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001666.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Socialized+failure%3a+dissecting+health-care+data+from+Britain%2c+Canada%2c...-a0199802195
Essorant
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45 posted 01-02-2010 06:39 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
...by the United Nations International Health Organization.

Is there even an organization officially called "United Nations International Health Organization"?
Denise
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46 posted 01-02-2010 06:45 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ess, the World Health Organization, their official name, is an arm of the United Nations.
Essorant
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47 posted 01-02-2010 07:17 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think the name makes a difference, Denise.  Would you like to be blamed for what Dennis the Menace says/does, just because your name is close to his?      

What are the actual statistics from the World Health Organization?    

Denise
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48 posted 01-02-2010 07:41 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I didn't call them by their descriptive non-official name, the writer of the email did.

One of the articles listed aboved referenced statistics from WHO, I believe.

Balladeer
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49 posted 01-02-2010 08:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Aha...Denise the Menace. I always knew it!

The name doesn't change the articles  or the information contained within. It does, however, serve as a tool to divert attention.

Some of the links are worth reading for someone with an open mind interested in facts.
 
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