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Passions in Poetry

Things Are Getting Gorey,,,

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Tim
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since 06-08-99
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25 posted 12-10-2009 09:53 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Al Gore wrote the introduction to "The Silent Spring" which led to the banning of DDT worldwide.
The banning of DDT has led to the deaths of millions upon millions of people (primarily children) ranking it as a cause of death right up there with Hitler and Stalin.
Science has disproved the claims of "The Silent Spring", but you will not see Al Gore acknowledging this fact as the banning of DDT has little to do with science. It is a political issue.
Global warming is now issue that has become politicized to even a greater extent.
Al Gore is obviously not a scientist, but a politician. He is the leading spokesperson for global warming.
I find it hard to give any credibility to Al Gore.  He can keep his oscar though, because there is a strong connection between politics, hollywood, and now climate research.
Do I believe the issue of global warming is settled science?  No.
I like to think I am a fairly rational person and not a complete idiot.  
Politicians need crisis and disasters to justify their existence.  Unfortunately, in todays world, scientists need politicians to exist.  When you mix the two, science does not come out on top.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
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26 posted 12-10-2009 10:10 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer

If you thought more carefully about it you would realize that the children are meant to represent those that come after us.  In other words those that will face things to come, including consequences of what we do or don't do in our time.  It is also obviously meant to get our attention more sharply because we may think more sensitively from a child's point of view. Therefore, I think you are missing the context again.  The children in the video are not especially about getting children's attention, but about getting adults' attention, saying that we adults should be inspired at least to do something and try to prevent it from being worse than it needs to be for those that come after us.  

Balladeer
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27 posted 12-10-2009 10:28 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Essorant, the child's point of view IS the adult's point of view. That's where they get them from, until they are old enough and have enough experience to form their own.

It DOES give me an idea, though. I could create a video starring children showing American kids living in alleys and caves, scavengering for food scraps - maybe fighting off dogs for bits of mildewed Burger King buns - with the message being, "Mr. Obama, please stop plunging the country farther into a debt we will not be able to repay". That way, according to your way of thinking, perhaps adults will see the damage being caused by such constant spending and want to do something about it. Who knows? I could get an Oscar just like Al!!
Essorant
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28 posted 12-10-2009 11:00 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't totally agree, Balladeer.  A child would have a response of fear and imagination, by seeing or hearing about such things.  That is a rather natural response to a potential danger for most people I think.  It is not some forced "view" or "philosophy".   What you are mistaking about the child in the video, I think, is actually probably true about where you are in the experience of the issue: the reason you may not have that natural fear and imagination that comes with a sense of danger and needing to do something is probably because your views and weariness have made you insensitive to the issue.  But that is probably not the case for the average child.

  
Balladeer
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29 posted 12-10-2009 11:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Then we will agree to disagree, sir. To me is certainly is a forced view when it is spoonfed to young children in schools and songs. I doubt the average 8 year old knows an awful lot about polar bears, for example, except for the false fact that they are dying off, according to their teachers or the videos they are shown in schools. Young minds are easily molded. If you see no fear-mongering in that video then you are either fooling me - or yourself, with all due respect.
Essorant
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30 posted 12-11-2009 12:52 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The Polar Bears are in hardships from the influence of Global Warming on their habitat, and some are dying (not all).  But if the ice they need continues to diminish, then they face more and more hardships and more will die.  I don't see why you should think Polar Bears (as a whole) should be dying off, before we do anything.  The point is that the Polar Bears are in danger, and that is enough for us to try to help them.

No, I don't see "fear-mongering" in the video.  I see fear.  Believe it or not some people haven't cloyed themselves so much with an arrogance that they don't have it anymore.  They sense a danger, and like natural people they have fear and imagination and believe we should at least do something.

 
Balladeer
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31 posted 12-11-2009 08:16 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The polar bears are in danger, according to whom? I use them as an example because that's the point that got Gore so flustered at a news conference weeks ago that he acted like a complete idiot (again). WHen asked by a reporter if he wished to revise his statement that polar bears were dying when, in fact, their numbers were increasing, Gore attacked the reporter verbally to get away from the question and  eventually had the reporter tossed out of the news conference. I guess somebody forgot to tell the polar bears they were in danger, since they keep frolicking and reproducing.

Arrogance? Just the opposite, my friend. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that man can make a difference in the face of Mother Nature. We have only been around a few years, while the world has gone on for billions without us. The eruption of Krakatoa spewed more dust and ash in the atmosphere than humans can do in a century, according to reports. It was also reported that, when Hussien set fire to the Kuwait oil fields, the ecological damage would last for decades. Less than five years later, the atmosphere was all cleaned and back to normal. Mother Nature knows exactly how to take care of herself. Arrogance is little humans holding up aerosol cans or driving their SUV's thinking they make the difference.

Arrogance is also get-rich quick schemers and world governments believing that people are so stupid that they will believe anything, in order to impose more controls and higher taxes on the population. Of course, they have used that ploy for centuries. That's why virgins were sacrificed to appease the Sun god, along with goats, sheep or what have you, going back to the beginning of man's time on earth. People have always gotten others to believe they must sacrifice something in orfer to appease the gods, Mother nature, or any other supernatural forces. Of course those doing the convincing always seemed to get some benefit from those sacrifices. We are no different than those who came before. Our leaders and charlatans don't require the same sacrifices (not because of a pronounced lack of virgins) but because now we are more "enlightened" and don't believe in cutting sheep necks or sacrificial lambs. No, our leaders now just use restrictions, taxes, fear and guilt trips to get the job done. You see fear in the video? Congrats....you are proof they have done their job well.
Essorant
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32 posted 12-11-2009 12:47 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think you should look more at the Polar Bear situation.  It is not uniform as far as numbers go at all.  I never said it it was.  But it is generally harder for all because the ice conditions are getting more and more difficult, and some are dying from it.   The loss of ice from Global Warming is a danger to them, because if it continues, that what you seem to think should be present already (that all should be dying, and none increasing) to consider it a problem would become an actuality.  That is not worth waiting for.  We don't need to make ourselves poor, but we shouldn't be loth to make some sacrafices to help sustain those that need help.  
  
quote:
I'm not arrogant enough to believe that man can make a difference in the face of Mother Nature.


Maybe not arrogant, but I think that mentality is somewhat ignorant of of the truth.  Even in prehistoric times man made major impacts.  There is little doubt that man was a major part of the extinction of many of the species at the end of the last ice age including the Sabretooth Cat, Ground Sloths and Mammoths. Man's negative impact in the form of excess hunting and slaughtering on top the Global Warming that was taking place, if not the main cause of the extinction, nevertheless made the situation far more extreme than it had been without man's abuse on top of it.  And that abuse had been even worse, obviously, if mass-emissions had been added on top of it all.
  
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


33 posted 12-11-2009 02:24 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Sounds like what's needed is the Chinese
solution; one child per couple until
there's too few of us to matter to poor
Mother Nature, (the Chinese have already
asked to be given credit in negotiations
for having already started).


.
Balladeer
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34 posted 12-11-2009 05:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree, Tim. The banning of DDT has been called the greatest cause of death in world history. Gore should be very proud.

Unfortunately, in todays world, scientists need politicians to exist.  When you mix the two, science does not come out on top.

Ayn Rand agreed with you, too, as that is one of the most important things she pointed out in Atlas Shrugged.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


35 posted 12-11-2009 06:06 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"Gore should be very proud"

And why not, since the problem
is other people . . .

.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


36 posted 12-11-2009 07:36 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

You might want to look at this article and this site.  The DDT issue is far from being as one-dimensional as you are trying to make it out to be.  

 
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