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Passions in Poetry

Ralph Peters vs. Deadly Political Correctness

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Local Rebel
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50 posted 11-14-2009 11:59 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

How do you get onto a military base with civilian weapons?

Why couldn't the FBI even look at Hasan's gun purchases?

Wasn't the discussion just a few weeks ago that a crime is a crime is a crime -- it doesn't matter what motivates it?

Isn't this more a case of how hard it is to fire a Doctor than about his religion?

If they had processed him out of the military -- wouldn't he have just walked into McDonald's and opened fire there?  (Because -- he's batcrap crazy?)

Isn't this more about the mental health crisis in our military?

Isn't this more about the ease of access to weapons by lunatic Psychiatrists?

Why was a civilian police officer the first one to get to Hasan at Ft. Hood?

These are just questions.

I'm just asking.
Essorant
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51 posted 11-14-2009 12:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Grinch,

quote:
Unfortunately that covers just about every religious group and cult Ess - including Christians.


Not compared to the extent of Muslims being involved in violence.  No other popular religion presently meets that extent.  But if it ever does, then, indeed, people involved in it should be watched more carefully as well.  

By the way, I agree with focusing on males more than females as well.   Gender is not a choice as religion is, but to approach the danger of violence and terrorism as if females are just as likely to be involved is just as ridiculous as pretending members of every other religion are just as much involved as people under the token of being Muslim.

Grinch
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52 posted 11-14-2009 01:53 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Not compared to the extent of Muslims being involved in violence.


Really.

In that case I must have misread the data I got from the global terrorism database I use, either that or you've got access to a better source.

Care to share? I'm always on the lookout for new data sources for comparison.

quote:
to approach the danger of violence and terrorism as if females are just as likely to be involved is just as ridiculous as pretending members of every other religion are just as much involved as people under the token of being Muslim.


Being female is no guarantee against terrorism. For instance female members of the Tamil Tigers committed up to 40% of the total suicide attempts of that organisation and almost all terrorist organisations have realised that females are less likely to be stopped so that trend is likely to continue.

.
Essorant
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53 posted 11-14-2009 02:19 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Grinch

You can probably enlighten me better than I can enlighten you.  In which way are Christianity and Buddhism, for example, presently involved in these kinds of acts of terrorism or to any such extent?


quote:
Being female is no guarantee against terrorism. For instance female members of the Tamil Tigers committed up to 40% of the total suicide attempts of that organisation and almost all terrorist organisations have realised that females are less likely to be stopped so that trend is likely to continue.


I agree.  That is an exception.  The general rule though is that males are more predominant and that is unlikely to change any time soon.
Bob K
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54 posted 11-14-2009 03:32 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear John,

          Since you can define "duck" in whatever way you wish, and change it whenever you want to mean something else, you have just made a meaningless statement, but done so with the pretense of great wisdom.  Should this be your intention, I must congratulate you on your brilliant success.  If you were trying actually to solve a real problem, then you still have before you the need to do the thing you have been avoiding for some few days now.  That would be defining what you mean by "duck," and telling us how you would distinguish this particular "duck," which is, presumably, of some threat, from everybody else.  

     There have been women in Palestine, by the way, who have blown themselves up; this is not exclusively a male preserve.  Would that it were.

     And Mike, I fail to see the distinction that you try to set out in much the same way that Grinch does.  

     I understand that you sincerely do not mean to make blanket statements about all Muslims.  Honest, I get that, and I believe that.  I don't think that you understand that the way you've stated things contradicts your intentions, however, and that you've been left saying and meaning two different and opposing things.  How you deal with that is a puzzle to me, as is your inability to see the contradiction.  I'm certainly willing to believe that the misperception is mine, but because Grinch also notes it I think it is worthy of your consideration.   No more than consideration, but consideration.

Bob Kaven
Bob K
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55 posted 11-14-2009 03:44 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Essorant,

          There are White separationist groups that celebrate identity Christianity.  Tim McVeigh was a member, and so are many of the far right prison separationist groups and a lot of the militia groups and a lot of Klan members.  A lot of the right wing violence in this country, including McVeigh's violence, had very extreme separationist religious views mixed in with it.  Extreme religious views are not the special provence of Muslims.  Sad to say.

Yours, Bob Kaven
Grinch
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56 posted 11-14-2009 03:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
In which way are Christianity or Buddhism, for example, presently involved in these kind of acts of terrorism or to any such extent?


Thai Buddhist terror groups have been operating and active for some time, though in the terror league they're not major players, Christians? If you use the global standard definition of terrorism they're among the biggest perpetrators worldwide.

The perception among Americans that Muslims conduct more terrorist attacks than any other group is understandable, terrorist attacks that don't involve or affect Americans are rarely reported in the American media unless the loss of life is substantial. Even then the religious or political affiliations of the perpetrators rarely gets headline billing.

For instance how many terrorist attacks do you remember from 2008? How many people died as a result of those attacks?

The numbers may surprise you:

The total number of terrorist attacks in 2008 was 11,770 With 15,765 fatalities.

Of the fatalities 19 were American - they're the ones you're naturally most likely to remember and on which your perceptions are, presumably, based.

quote:
The general rule though is that males are more predominant and that is unlikely to change any time soon.


That's a really dangerous assumption to make Ess. The nut jobs that plan terrorist attacks may be a lot of things but they certainly aren't stupid, if you target shifty looking Arabic men or even men in general they'll switch quicker than you can say Black Widow. While you're questioning Cat Stevens at terminal 2 Miss Osama will be boarding the plane with a quarter pound of semtex stuffed in her bra.

. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpX1ZjuaiA

[This message has been edited by Grinch (11-14-2009 04:58 PM).]

Bob K
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57 posted 11-14-2009 06:42 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Essorant,

          You might try looking up some of the details yourself.  The Wikipedia article is interesting, and as a researcher and a scholar, you'll be able to make very good use of the articles and the bibliography to fill in the details.  It would be silly to say that any one religion is worse or better than any other, I think, in regard to the quality of its crazies.  Crazy is by definition crazy, and they're not going to be acting the way the most centered thinking of any religion says it ought to be.

     I include the Christian Science Monitor article because, as usual, the CSM has gone about two steps further in their thinking about a difficult subject, and what they have to say about terrorism and our particular way of dealing with it is well worth thinking about.  Even if you disagree with them.

     I'd be interested in your thinking in general.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
http://www.commonplacebook.com/current_events/politics/christian_terro.shtm
http://www.iri.org/newsarchive/2008/2008-10-01-News-CSM-Pakistan.asp
http://marranci.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/terrorism-in-the-name-of-jesus-everybody-ignore/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism



Balladeer
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58 posted 11-14-2009 10:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

if you target shifty looking Arabic men or even men in general they'll switch quicker than you can say Black Widow.

Actually, they don't have to, even though the obviousness of muslim terrorism against the US is obvious.

They see muslims going to flight training schools, not caring to know how to land an aircraft, and it's not questioned. They see grandmas being checked at airports to not present a prejudiced interest in muslims, they see the ACLU screaming bloody murder at the drop of the hat and they know that they are safe because Americans are stupid. They see politicans and political groups screaming invasion of freedom when the government monitors phone calls and e-mails going to middle east terror organizations and they laugh.

They don't need to change anything. They just sit and watch us be ourselves....
Huan Yi
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59 posted 11-15-2009 01:03 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


All this is so reminiscent of the self emasculating responses
of what became the Western Allied powers to Nazism
prior to September 1, 1939.

.

Bob K
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60 posted 11-15-2009 01:31 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     And who is the dictator, we are appeasing, John?  Which country would that be?  Perhaps Ducksylvania?

     It is a moody and insupportable conclusion without a national entity to hang it on to make the analogy complete.  Which nation is it that has it out for us, John?  Is there some other central body — the Elders of Zion, perhaps?  The Illuminati?  The Odd Fellows? — that is pressing this ominous agenda?  World Capitalism?  The Communist Conspiracy?  The Shi'ia?  The Sun'i?  Perhaps all of them have put their quarrels aside, and decided that the only thing to do is tackle the United States?

     We're doing a marvelous job getting other people upset at us on our own.  We don't need to have any major enemies out there; we're doing a pretty good job of creating them as it is with our foreign policy, if you look at the article I quote above from [i]The Christian Science Monitor.[i]  I include President Obama in the enemy creating business, by the way.

     Bulging Basketballs, Batman!  Define your terms!  Otherwise, you'll simply drive me hoopy!  Apparently you're seeing ducks everyplace, and still won't specify what they are!  Countries, Dictators, appeasers, aggressors, religious partisans, psychiatrists, Nazis bent on Aryan world domination, or homegrown advocates of political correctness.  

     I'm beginning to see a pattern here, however.  "Ducks" are apparently the same as "they."  "They" are waiting for us to tear ourselves apart, is what Mike was suggesting.  They might open a business with the slogan, "They" be "Ducks."  or "Ducks" R "They."  I know it needs some tweaking, but I think I'm onto something really right wing here.
Grinch
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61 posted 11-15-2009 06:35 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Actually, they don't have to, even though the obviousness of muslim terrorism against the US is obvious.


The obviousness is obvious is it?

I'm always a little sceptical when people say something is obvious, and doubly so when they say that the obviousness is obvious, what they generally means is that they don't really know and are hoping you won't ask. So I'm asking - if you put all your little ducks in a row and count them Mike how many terrorist attacks by Muslims occurred in the US last year? In comparison how many were perpetrated by domestic terrorists?

quote:
They just sit and watch us be ourselves....


So they're sitting around and watching us are they? I thought it was obvious they were all busy committing terrorist attacks. So which is it Mike, are they terrorising American citizens on a daily basis or are they sitting around laughing?

I'll help you out on this one - it's both - but they aren't doing it by committing terrorist acts on a daily basis and they aren't doing it unaided. People like you and Huan are doing a great job helping them perpetuate the myth that every Muslim is a terrorist and every Mosque is a potential bomb factory. They aren't planting bombs in your shopping malls on a regular basis Mike, or blowing up your pubs at a rate that even gets close to the terrorist attacks perpetrated by the IRA on mainland Britain, they don't need to.

If the majority of Muslims really wanted to do that your morning paper would be full of the evidence. An RPG will take down a 747 just as easily as Blackhawk and one nut job with eight foot of water pipe and a couple of pounds of black powder could keep Fox news busy for a year - ask Theodore John Kaczynski.

They're laughing because they don't have to terrorise Americans Mike, you're doing such a good job of it without them.

.
Balladeer
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62 posted 11-15-2009 10:07 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

People like you and Huan are doing a great job helping them perpetuate the myth that every Muslim is a terrorist and every Mosque is a potential bomb factory.

Once again, you will not find anywhere where we have said that every Muslim is a terrorist or every mosque a potential bomb factory. Trying to switch the blame over to us is a poor attempt at shifting focus.

if you put all your little ducks in a row and count them Mike how many terrorist attacks by Muslims occurred in the US last year? In comparison how many were perpetrated by domestic terrorists?

What does last year have to do with anything? Expand your base to the last decade to get a more realistic view. Let's see....we have the obvious 9/11. We have the shoe bomber who would have  brought down a plane filled with passengers had he not been thwarted. We have the gentlemen recently arrested for future terrorist attacks which would have occured had they not been caught. We have the Major. What do all of these people have in common? Gee, that's a tough one.....

Going outside the US, since it is a global situation, we have the terorist attacks on London, on India, on Pakistan, on Spain, etc, etc, etc. What do the perpetrators of those attacks have in common? Another toughie...

You only see condemnation of muslims by me and John because you want to. What we are saying is that, should red flags be raised indicating possible links to terrorist activities, organizations or philosophies, that person being a muslim should not cause our authorities to bury them out of fear of being called zenophobes.
but I think I'm onto something really right wing here.

Bob, you can find something "really right wing" in anything . Perhaps you studied under Hillary?
Denise
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63 posted 11-15-2009 11:06 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think the Major's actions have shown, or should have shown, that Muslim terrorism and domestic terrorism are not mutually exclusive.
Grinch
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quote:
Once again, you will not find anywhere where we have said that every Muslim is a terrorist


quote:
I would check every Muslim in the military


Would you do that just for fun Mike? Because, statistically speaking, you're more likely to find a terrorist by checking the white males.

quote:
Expand your base to the last decade to get a more realistic view.


Fine Mike, I've got access to data going back to 1970 - how many examples do you need? Let's see what have you got so far, five examples in 10 years? Two of which are highly questionable. I'll see your 5 and raise you 311 in 10 years.

In the last ten years Mike The World Church of the Creator have committed more acts of terrorism in the US than Muslims.

quote:
Going outside the US, since it is a global situation, we have the terorist attacks on London, on India, on Pakistan, on Spain


Which bit of bad news do you want first Mike?

Spain has the Catholic Basque separatists ETA which carried out 166 of the 357 terrorists attacks all on their lonesome, so they aren't going to be much good as an example of Muslim terror - though they did have 8 attacks by Muslim groups.

India? Again not much use - the ULFA are the major terrorist there - they're predominantly Hindu.

London? It's a city not a country so it's only had 47 attacks in the last ten years the majority by white Catholic males with Irish accents.

Pakistan? Finally - the majority of terrorist attacks in Pakistan are perpetrated by Muslims, unfortunately the targets are also predominately Muslim too - which is no surprise given that 95% of the population is Muslim.

.
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65 posted 11-15-2009 01:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

grinch, you can double-talk it any way you want...really doesn't matter to me.

Are we at a war with muslim terrorists? Yes. Have muslim terrorists claimed to destroy us? Yes. Have muslim terrorists made attacks all over the world? Yes? You want to spend time checking out all males instead, be my guest. For my part I would check out Army majors that have Soldier of Allah printed on their business cards. Checking out is not the same as accusing, even though you are indicating they are.
Essorant
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66 posted 11-15-2009 02:48 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

If you use the minimum of religion being involved in terrorism at all, then yes, there are some people of all or most religious groups that reach that minimum and may surpass it in one way or another.  But that is not what I was getting at earlier  I am talking about the maximum that Islamic terrorism is reached in our times.  To suggest all other religious groups are bringing out anything near to the high maximum Islamic terrorism has set is a misrepresentation.  

The statistics seem rather worthless in this context, because they ignore the level of zeal and willingness to destroy or kill, and the actual level of destruction and slaughter that may come, where one or two attacks by one group waving the flag of one religion, may surpass in violence and deaths a hundred attacks by many groups under different religions.  

Nevertheless, none of this makes me think religion is even a superior thing to go by.  It would be further down my list than how people are speaking out and treatings others.  But the extent of Islamic terrorism would certainly make me more on guard and careful about a Muslim than an average man.
 


[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-15-2009 05:06 PM).]

Local Rebel
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67 posted 11-15-2009 03:27 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

A lone wolf or lone-wolf fighter is someone who commits violent and/or non-violent acts in support of some group, movement, or ideology, but does so alone, outside of any command structure.


* Timothy McVeigh is often given as a classic example of the "lone wolf". Although Terry Nichols was convicted of conspiring with him, McVeigh planned the bombing and threatened Nichols with harm to himself and/or his family if he did not co-operate in helping him mix the fertilizer and other bomb ingredients. He (McVeigh) was convicted and executed for the 19 April 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, which killed 168 people and injured hundreds with a truck bomb.
  
* Between 1978 and 1995, Theodore Kaczynski, known as the "Unabomber", engaged in a campaign of sending mail bombs to various people, killing three and wounding 23. He threatened to continue the bombings unless his anti-industrial manifesto was published by the New York Times, which acquiesced.

* Between 1996 and 1998, Eric Robert Rudolph, a Christian Identity adherent, engaged in a series of attacks against civilians in the Southern United States, resulting in the deaths of three people and injuries to at least 150 others. His targets included abortion clinics, gay nightclubs, and the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta.

* On February 23, 1997, Ali Hassan Abu Kamal opened fire in the observation deck of the Empire State Building, killing one and wounding six others before committing suicide.[8][9]

* On 10 August 1999, Buford O. Furrow, Jr., a member of the white supremacist group Aryan Nations, attacked a Jewish daycare in Los Angeles, injuring five, and subsequently shot dead a Filipino American mail carrier.

* On 3 March 2006, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar drove a Jeep Cherokee into a crowd of students at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, injuring nine people. Press accounts have said that he "matches the modern profile of the unaffiliated, lone-wolf terrorist"[10]

* On 28 July 2006, Naveed Afzal Haq, saying "I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel", perpetrated the Seattle Jewish Federation shooting in the Belltown neighborhood of Seattle, killing one woman and wounding five other women.

* Scott Roeder has been alleged to have killed obstetrician George Tiller on 31 May 2009.

* On 1 June 2009 Abdulhakim Mujahaid Muhammad, an American who had converted to Islam opened fire on a United States military recruiting office in Little Rock, Arkansas, known as the 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting. Abdulhakim has been indicted on one count of capital murder in the death of Private William Long and 15 counts of terrorism. Private Quinton Ezeagwula was also wounded in the attack.[11][12] Preliminary investigation (as of 12 June 2009) indicated that Muhammad acted alone.[13]

* James von Brunn, Holocaust Museum shooter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_%28terrorism%29



quote:

What a surprise it must have been when Major Nidal Malik Hasan woke up from his coma to find himself not in paradise but in Brooke Army Medical Center, deep in the heart of Texas, under security so tight that there were armed guards patrolling both the intensive-care unit and checkpoints at the nearest freeway off-ramp. This was not the finalι he had scripted when he gave away all his earthly goods — his desk lamp and air mattress, his frozen broccoli and spinach, his copies of the Koran. He had told his imam he was planning to visit his parents before deploying to Afghanistan. He did not mention that his parents had been dead for nearly 10 years.

And who denied him his martyrdom? That would be Kimberly Munley, the SWAT-team markswoman nicknamed Mighty Mouse, who with her partner ran toward the sound of gunshots at the Soldier Readiness Center, where men and women about to deploy gather for vaccinations and eye exams. It's practically been a motto stitched on their sleeves — "Better to fight the terrorists there than here" — except now they were at home, and there was one of their own, a U.S. officer, jumping up, shouting "God is great" in a language he could barely speak and then opening fire.

For eight years, Americans have waged a Global War on Terrorism even as they argued about what that meant. The massacre at Fort Hood was, depending on whom you believed, yet another horrific workplace shooting by a nutcase who suddenly snapped, or it was an intimate act of war, a plot that can't be foiled because it is hatched inside a fanatic's head and leaves no trail until it is left in blood. In their first response, officials betrayed an eagerness to assume it was the first; the more we learn, the more we have cause to fear it was the second, a new battlefield where our old weapons don't work very well and our values make us vulnerable: freedom, privacy, tolerance and the stubborn American certainty that people born and raised here will not reject the gifts we share.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1938415,00.html#ixzz0WxhFW1QO



quote:

A small but increasing number of soldiers undergoing the mental strain of repeated combat deployments are taking lives -- often their own.

This year, 117 active-duty Army soldiers were reported to have committed suicide, with 81 of those cases confirmed -- up from 103 suicides during the same period last year. Ten suicides have been reported at Fort Hood this year; more than 75 of its personnel have committed suicide since 2003. Fort Hood's high number of suicides is also linked to the fact that it is the Army's largest base, with more than 53,000 soldiers.

An estimated 30 percent of those returning from combat suffer mental health symptoms such as depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress. Such problems grow worse with repeated deployments and the constant exposure to danger and the sights, smells and emotions of seeing others killed or wounded, according to Army mental health surveys.

Those who treat the mentally wounded, including doctors such as Hasan, are not immune from the symptoms. It is not uncommon for therapists who treat patients for post-traumatic stress disorder to experience some symptoms vicariously after hearing account after account of the horrors of the battlefield.

Hasan was a psychiatry intern at Walter Reed Army Medical Center from June 2003 to July 2009, Army officials said. In that position, he probably treated soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder.

Violent outbursts such as shootings by soldiers at Army bases have occurred in recent years, including at Fort Hood, where several killings were reported over the past two years.

Historically, one of the worst shooting incidents involving soldiers took place Oct. 27, 1995, at Towle Stadium at Fort Bragg, N.C., when a soldier opened fire on paratroopers in a formation, killing one Army officer and wounding 18 others.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/05/AR2009110505396.html



From all the information I have seen and heard -- it is apparent to me that Hasan was a disturbed individual who was not unlike any other of many disturbed individuals who turned to a religion or ideology and found justification for acting out in an extreme fashion.
Grinch
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quote:
I would check out Army majors that have Soldier of Allah printed on their business cards


Yeah Mike it's a well known fact that all terrorists have Soldier of Allah on their business cards whereas all non-terrorists have soldier of God on theirs. I hope the Muslims don't pick up on that soon otherwise we're stuffed.

Checking the business cards of soldiers sounds like a plan though - a stupid plan granted - but a plan nonetheless. Personally I prefer the method adopted by every security force in the world, the one where they ignore race, sex and religion and simply target two groups:

Those that waddle and those that quack.

quote:
But the extent of Islamic terrorism would certainly make me more on guard and careful about a Muslim than an average man


What's an average man Ess?


.
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69 posted 11-15-2009 04:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yeah Mike it's a well known fact that all terrorists have Soldier of Allah on their business cards whereas all non-terrorists have soldier of God on theirs  Interesting that you know so many non-terrorists that have Soldier of God on their business cards. I don't know any and have apparently been remiss in putting the phrase on mine! Thanks  for going so fall off the wall your  comments are easily dismissable. Must have been  the Mensa in you that created such a profound statement

Ess, be careful. You are making too much sense.

From all the information I have seen and heard -- it is apparent to me that Hasan was a disturbed individual who was not unlike any other of many disturbed individuals who turned to a religion or ideology and found justification for acting out in an extreme fashion.

LR, I think that is a very valid statement.  Now, when you turn to a religion or ideology that we happen to be fighting in multiple countries, that are creating terrorist acts around the world, that killed 3000+ on 9/11 and continue to vow to destroy us, wouldn't it be a reasonable idea to watch out for red flags for connections between people in the US and those organizations? Hasan raised those red flags. They were ignored.

Essorant
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70 posted 11-15-2009 04:57 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
You are making too much sense.


That is the first time I have been accused of that

Local Rebel
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quote:

Now, when you turn to a religion or ideology that we happen to be fighting in multiple countries, that are creating terrorist acts around the world, that killed 3000+ on 9/11 and continue to vow to destroy us, wouldn't it be a reasonable idea to watch out for red flags for connections between people in the US and those organizations? Hasan raised those red flags. They were ignored.



You're putting the cart before the horse though Mike.  The big red flag was supposed to be that he was DISTURBED!  Even other mental health professionals he worked with stated that they had wondered whether or not he was psychotic -- but never had him evaluated.  Being disturbed -- it wouldn't have mattered if he was a Freemason, a Republican, or a Shaker -- but the problem Mike is that if Hasan read your statement -- he would feel vindicated in his actions.

If by red flags you mean communications with persons associated with terrorists -- I'd agree -- but I wouldn't agree that they were ignored -- because the FBI looked into those communications.

There were numerous failures in the Ft. Hood shootings -- but the religious connection seems merely an irritant and not the indication.  
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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72 posted 11-15-2009 06:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     Even President Bush called it "the war against Terror" and not "the war against Islamic Terror."  You seem to be changing facts to fit your present day preoccupations.  The definition of "duck" changes every time a new notion takes you or John.  Because you never bothered to define the term "duck" in the first place, you can define it however you want — today Muslims, tomorrow Catholics, Jews the day after, and who's to tell the difference?  They're all simply "ducks" to you.

     Pay no attention to those facts that Grinch brings up so inconveniently that undermine your assumptions.  More violence by Irish folks than Muslims in London?  What!  Let's ignore that posthaste!  It doesn't fit!  Maybe we can call Grinch some names along the way to hide the fact that we conservatives actually have to deal with his figures and his facts if we didn't indulge ourselves in a personal attack in a failed attempt to rebut him!  What's that phrase you use, Mike, The one you generally use, plugging my name into it?  Oh yes —

     Mike, Mike, Mike!  You have bellicosity on your side.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


73 posted 11-15-2009 06:35 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Interesting that you know so many non-terrorists that have Soldier of God on their business cards


I guess you don't know many Army Chaplains Mike, they're quite attached to the title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3SgjfyKs3I  

quote:
Thanks  for going so fall off the wall your  comments are easily dismissable.


No problem Mike, I don't mind finding the facts for you to dismiss without offering any real argument, in fact I'm getting quite used to it.

Balladeer
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74 posted 11-15-2009 07:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course they are attached to the title, grinch. It is their profession. SHow me where Hassan's profession was being a soldier of Allah or anything to do with the muslim faith and I'll agree with you.

Besides, you didn't limit your comment to chaplains. whereas all non-terrorists have soldier of God on theirs. That's what makes it so dismissable.
 
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