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Local Rebel
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25 posted 10-14-2009 09:51 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Now, you see?  Factchecking is fun.  But, why do you only post the broken promises Mike?

I'm sure you'll be especially interested in this article outlining the 26 lies perpetrated by the Republicans and the health insurance industry about H.R. 3200 http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Or this one about Joe Wilson's outburst:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/
     now isn't this fun?
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26 posted 10-14-2009 09:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Why post the broken promises, Reb? Because there shouldn't be any, should there, much less a string of them in less than a year? You want to avoid them by going somewhere else? Ok... it IS interesting.
Local Rebel
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27 posted 10-14-2009 10:01 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm not avoiding anything Mike.  I directed you to them, time and time again.  

What I asked you was why ONLY post the broken promises?  There seem to be a lot of kept promises and promises in the works too. Why aren't you interested in them if we're talking about fact-checking and the veracity of politicians?  

Should politicians ever break a promise? It depends.  

Balladeer
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28 posted 10-14-2009 10:09 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually, Obama can make a pretty thorough case that reform doesn't apply to those here illegally. We don't find the public option argument enough to make the case that Obama "lied." We rate Wilson's statement False.

Interesting. Obama makes the statement that 48 million were uninsured ( a figure that included over 9 million illegal aliens ) and, after Wilson's statement, changed it to 30 something million....but there was no connection between the two.....right.

So you've gone from Obama's string of broken promises to HR3400 and Joe Wilson...Jerry Seinfeld next?
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29 posted 10-14-2009 10:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What I asked you was why ONLY post the broken promises?

Simple...you don't key in on what someone is SUPPOSED to do...because they are supposed to do it. You don't  applaud someone for not robbing a bank. You may appreciate but don't applaud your employee for doing his job but you chastize him for NOT doing it, I would assume. When a Pulitzer-winning non-partisan site lists figures that Obama only tells better than half-truths 50% of the time and lists all of his broken promises, I would not call that much of a recommendation of a president, regardless of what Joe Wilson says, or HR3200 reads, or what Limbaugh spews. It says we have a man in the Oval Office whose words or promises one cannot take at face value.
Local Rebel
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30 posted 10-14-2009 10:21 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Interesting. Obama makes the statement that 48 million were uninsured ( a figure that included over 9 million illegal aliens ) and, after Wilson's statement, changed it to 30 something million....but there was no connection between the two.....right



Well, it seems you have your time-line distorted Mike.... and your numbers... so I'll have to rate you a false on this statement!

You see -- these are the actual numbers and the actual statement made by Obama in the speech:

quote:

Some of the president’s factual claims, while accurate, were notable for his careful wording.

    Obama: There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage.

“Citizens” is the operative word here. And even so, the 30 million figure is an understatement. The official Census figure for 2007 was actually 45.7 million persons in the U.S., but that figure includes an estimated 10 million who are not U.S. citizens, including 5.6 million who are here illegally, according to the National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. That still leaves about 35.7 million U.S. citizens without health coverage in 2007, well above the president’s figure. And hours after the president spoke, Census released new figures for 2008, showing the total number of uninsured went up slightly, to 46.3 million.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech/



quote:

So you've gone from Obama's string of broken promises to HR3400 and Joe Wilson...Jerry Seinfeld next?



This one gets a 'pants-on-fire' Mike. I said nothing about HR3400.  

If Jerry says something ......
Local Rebel
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31 posted 10-14-2009 10:26 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Simple...you don't key in on what someone is SUPPOSED to do...because they are supposed to do it. You don't  applaud someone for not robbing a bank. You may appreciate but don't applaud your employee for doing his job but you chastize him for NOT doing it, I would assume. When a Pulitzer-winning non-partisan site lists figures that Obama only tells better than half-truths 50% of the time and lists all of his broken promises, I would not call that much of a recommendation of a president, regardless of what Joe Wilson says, or HR3200 reads, or what Limbaugh spews. It says we have a man in the Oval Office whose words or promises one cannot take at face value.



Oh, but Mike, you're wrong all the way around here -- because what's germane to this discussion is precisely the 47 promises kept too -- and the compromises -- and the promises that are in the works.

Breaking a promise isn't necessarily something a politician isn't supposed to do.  For example -- would you be complaining if Obama broke his promise to roll back the Bush tax cuts or enact health care reform?  

Now -- do you want a score-card compiled on Bush?
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32 posted 10-14-2009 10:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Aha...I see. So, if you hire an employee who has told you 20 correct statements on his qualifications and ten lies, you'll say "Ok, 20 out of 30 is good for me." Obama got "hired" based on what he said he would do. SOme of them are stalled. On some of them there was compromise. Some were kept and some were broken. You want to shy away from the broken ones by saying, "Well, he kept some", go ahead. That's not why he was hired. People were supposed to believe in the promises he said he would keep...and he didn't.

Discuss Bush? Sure...as soon as he becomes president, which would make it not pointless.
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33 posted 10-14-2009 10:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama: I used to say 47 million uninsured. Now, it's 30 million.
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
09/09/09 9:04 PM EDT

In his speech tonight, the president introduced a new number in the health care debate. Remember all those statements from Democrats, including Barack Obama himself, that 47 million Americans are without health insurance? That's no longer the operative number. "There are now more than thirty million American citizens who cannot get coverage," the president said in tonight's speech.

But on August 10, at a town hall meeting, Obama referred to the "46, 47 million people without health insurance in our country…" And on July 23, he said, "This is not just about the 47 million Americans who don't have any health insurance at all…"

What's the difference? Obama appears to be choosing his words carefully. There is a difference between Americans who "cannot get coverage" and Americans who "don't have any health insurance at all." The interesting question is why Obama has chosen to downgrade the number from 47 million to 30 million. Look for Democrats to begin using the new figure in making the case for Obamacare.


UPDATE:

So why did Obama make the change? The first possibility is the difference between people who "don't have any health insurance" and people who "cannot get coverage." Millions of Americans who can afford health insurance choose not to have it, many of them because they are young, healthy and unlikely to need it. The second difference in Obama's phrasing is between "people without health insurance," in his old phrasing, and "American citizens" without coverage, as he said in last night's speech. Was Obama, faced with the (accurate) charge that the current Democratic health care proposals have no enforcement mechanism to prevent people in the United States illegally from receiving government-supported coverage, excluding non-citizens from his total?
Local Rebel
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34 posted 10-14-2009 10:49 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

The mistake you're making Mike is that you're conflating statements that are checked for veracity (which are selected by whatever editorial criteria the St. Petersburg Times is using) and aggregating them -- as compared to the comprehensive list of 'promises' made during the campaign.

Looking at statements that were selected for fact checking and trying to score them collectively is useless -- looking at each statement is the point.  Do you want to apply your newly-found standard for instance to John Boehner? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/john-boehner/

Michelle Bachman? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/michele-bachmann/

Tom Coburn? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/tom-coburn/

You speak of Obama's promises kept and broken as if the clock has run out and the ball is in the air..  it ain't even past the first quarter yet buddy.  
Local Rebel
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35 posted 10-14-2009 10:55 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Re: your post 33 Mike:  

This was your statement.

quote:

Interesting. Obama makes the statement that 48 million were uninsured ( a figure that included over 9 million illegal aliens ) and, after Wilson's statement, changed it to 30 something million....but there was no connection between the two.....right.



Now, if President Obama already made the change in his speech on the 9th -- then no, Joe Wilson's uneducated outburst had nothing to do with it.
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36 posted 10-14-2009 10:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Nope, it's not past the first quarter and yet the ball has already been fumbled multiple times. The Promises Broken means exactly that. The ones that need more time or could possibly be implemented in the future are in the Stalled or In The Works category. The Broken ones are exactly that....and, yes, I did read them individually.

As far as Joe Wilson is concerned, you are correct and I misspoke. Obama had used the 47 million multiple times before the speech but not during the speech...I stand corrected.
Stephanos
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37 posted 10-14-2009 11:46 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Um Bob, I read "The Davinci Code".  The preface clearly says his revisionist history is accurate ... though the story itself is technically fiction (I will quote it for you verbatim if I must).  Hardly a concession.


Just wanted to point that out.  Yeah, on about the same level as Rush, Moore, and Springer.  

Stephen
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38 posted 10-15-2009 01:07 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Mike, I am mostly in agreement with you:  the issue boils down to one word:
accountability

and the reason people here at PIP and elsewhere have a problem with Biden/Pelosi misspeaks, is that NO-ONE in the media has held them accountable for it.  (with the one possible exception of Pelosi's claim of not being present at torture meetings which is a blatant lie.)  But Obama, in his brilliant Machiavellian way spirited her off that weekend to China, to talk about ..cough....cough....climate change and pollution.

-------------------------------------------------

A slightly different tact here:

Boy, what a timely post:  the new news is that Limbaugh is being denied to partially own the St. Louis Rams because of a slew of racial comments he was allegedly said to have made.  

Problem is, NOBODY can find them!

They were made up and spewed out on MSNBC, NBC and CNN thoroughly dashing Limbaugh's chances toward an NFL team.

Personally I could care less whether he gets it or not.  But he is being RACIALLY SMEARED (again the race card) to keep him from own an NFL team.  Even some senators on the floor today echoed the Limbaugh-racial-talking points and none of them are popping up on Limbaugh searches.  Believe me when I tell you EVERY word he's ever said has been scrut'd.  He DID chew his tongue over the Donovan McNabb controversy, but it's debatable whether the statement itself is proof of racism, and more a proof of his personal idealism than racism.  

What's y'alls take on this Limbaugh-NFL deal?
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39 posted 10-15-2009 09:01 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yep,I watched O'Reilly last night, who had the head of the NFL player's union on, I think, and that point came up. This person brought up all of the "racial" comments Limbaugh was supposed to have said and O'Reilly said that his research staff could not find those comments anywhere. He wanted to know where they were. There was no answer. Nobody can seem to find where these comments were written, or said. Imagine that....

Limbaugh claims that he is going after the papers that printed them, legally, and he has deep enough pockets to do so. I hope he does.

Yes, of course, the Left (the champions of the people) will care less....after all, it's LIMBAUGH) Who cares if he gets smeared or people create false statements and attribute it to them...so what? He's not really a citizen  of the country with the same rights other citizens have....he's LIMBAUGH.
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40 posted 10-15-2009 10:58 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

My comment from another thread:

I also heard on the news that the Supreme Court has ruled in cases in Texas and California that any benefit or service offered to citizens by the government, MUST also be offered to non-citizens, anyone living within our borders.  So, yes, even illegals would be included in any government sponsered program, despite the denials of the politicians, who should be familiar with the court rulings in this area, wouldn't ya think?

So either Joe Wilson was correct, or Obama was just mistaken, not knowing the law. In either event Factcheck was incorrect, because illegals will have to be covered if anything is provided by the government.
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41 posted 10-15-2009 05:37 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     References, please, Denise?
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42 posted 10-15-2009 09:22 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't have references, Bob. Just something I heard on Fox News on TV from Judge Napoletano. I don't even remember which program. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for someone with the time to check into the Supreme Court rulings to verify it.
Local Rebel
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43 posted 10-15-2009 10:43 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/limbaugh.asp
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44 posted 10-15-2009 11:28 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Reb,
you posted 'Top 10 Racist Limbaugh' quotes
on a rip-off from Urban LegendsDotCom, posted at Snopes.com - 6 of the 10 being statements which are UNATTRIBUTED QUOTES (no known source).  
3 of the other ones are documented at Media Matters and you know they NEVER make a mistake.

Please tell me what your point is.
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45 posted 10-15-2009 11:31 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

I was asked to substantiate Pelosi's false statements; here is a start and I'll clean it up later if I get a chance:

Pelosi getting it wrong
On Abortion:
In an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press," Pelosi said "doctors of the church" have not been able to define when life begins and that "over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy."
The TRUTH:  Catholic Archbishop Donald Wuerl, citing the teaching responsibility entrusted to bishops, issued a statement that read, in part: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable."  Birth at conception

PELOSI ON COMPARING THE TOWN HALLERS AS POTENTIAL MURDERERS
Pelosi got choked up at her weekly news conference after being asked whether she was worried about how harsh the political atmosphere had become. The speaker got emotional while discussing the rhetoric that “created a climate” that led to violence in San Francisco in the late 1970s — a seeming reference to the murders of Harvey Milk, the gay activist and member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, and the city’s mayor, George Moscone, in 1978.   Curb your enthusiam she urged.
The TRUTH:  during the recent 9-12 meeting, there were ZERO arrests made of protestors.  Show me when several hundred thousand people can get together and have ZERO arrests made.  Pittsburgh Left-Wing ECOActivists resulted in 20 arrests and severe damage to the city thru violence.  The other obvious truth is the most of the townhallers were older, many many of them retirees.  I can’t think of a more UNVIOLENT group in the US.  The MSNBC picture showing arms being carried to a townhall didn’t ‘pan upwards’ to show that the man was wearing an SEIU pro-union t-shirt.  He was there to CONFRONT the protestors, not support them.  

PELOSI LIES ABOUT THE CIA:
Pelosi accuses the CIA of not telling her about torture, then proved a liar later on.  To compound things, when asked by a reporter whether she was accusing the CIA of lying to her at the Sept. 4, 2002 briefing she participated in with then Rep. Porter Goss, a Florida Republican, she said "yes." She then dug the hole deeper by saying "they mislead us all the time."    Later on she also admitted (but first denied until caught in her lie)  that her own private staffer participated in lengthy meetings, in Pelosi’s place, that discussed in detail exactly what torture was, and what the options were.  

[This message has been edited by threadbear (10-16-2009 02:44 AM).]

Bob K
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46 posted 10-16-2009 02:23 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Threadbear,

          Please document the mistakes you suggest media matters has made.  I generally try to avoid quoting left wing sources because that is my general bias, and I believe that using sources that generally share my bias is not a great general policy.  I generally send people to right wing sources such as The Economist, whose research is generally excellent, though I may disagree with their interpretation.

     I can understand that you might dislike the interpretation of some the the Media Matters material, but I haven't found much to get upset about in their data collection in general, so some specifics would be appreciated.

     Yours, Bob Kaven
Local Rebel
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47 posted 10-16-2009 06:48 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Reb,
you posted 'Top 10 Racist Limbaugh' quotes
on a rip-off from Urban LegendsDotCom, posted at Snopes.com -




First -- educate me.  How has Snopes ripped off this article from urbanlegends.com?  Show me.

quote:

6 of the 10 being statements which are UNATTRIBUTED QUOTES (no known source).  
3 of the other ones are documented at Media Matters and you know they NEVER make a mistake.

Please tell me what your point is.



I believe it is self-explanatory.  6 of the 10 statements cannot be verified -- which does not necessarily mean they didn't happen, only that they are irrelevant, and unnecessary.  

The insidiousness of Media Matters is they take down complete transcripts of exactly what is said.  How unfair!
Local Rebel
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48 posted 10-16-2009 08:05 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

PELOSI LIES ABOUT THE CIA:
Pelosi accuses the CIA of not telling her about torture, then proved a liar later on.  To compound things, when asked by a reporter whether she was accusing the CIA of lying to her at the Sept. 4, 2002 briefing she participated in with then Rep. Porter Goss, a Florida Republican, she said "yes." She then dug the hole deeper by saying "they mislead us all the time."    Later on she also admitted (but first denied until caught in her lie)  that her own private staffer participated in lengthy meetings, in Pelosi’s place, that discussed in detail exactly what torture was, and what the options were.  



You'll have to bring citations to back up declarative statements like that TB.

quote:

WASHINGTON -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday she expects Democrats to pursue further claims by the CIA Director Leon Panetta that the spy agency repeatedly misled Congress.

Democrats say Panetta told Congress last month that senior CIA officials have concealed significant actions and misled lawmakers many times since 2001.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes and six other of the 13 Democrats on the panel sent Panetta a letter on June 26 demanding he retract a May 15 statement that it is not CIA "policy or practice to mislead Congress."

Panetta made the earlier statement after Pelosi accused the spy agency of lying to her and Congress over enhanced interrogation techniques used on terror detainees during the Bush administration.

Reyes, D-Texas, also wrote to Michigan Rep. Peter Hoekstra, the committee's senior Republican, to say that he is considering opening a full investigation into the CIA's communications with Congress.

Pelosi had little to say Thursday about the events that shine the spotlight back on her controversial remarks.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/08/house-democrat-joins-  pelosi-accusing-cia-misleading-lying-congress/



quote:

PELOSI ON COMPARING THE TOWN HALLERS AS POTENTIAL MURDERERS
Pelosi got choked up at her weekly news conference after being asked whether she was worried about how harsh the political atmosphere had become. The speaker got emotional while discussing the rhetoric that “created a climate” that led to violence in San Francisco in the late 1970s — a seeming reference to the murders of Harvey Milk, the gay activist and member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, and the city’s mayor, George Moscone, in 1978.   Curb your enthusiam she urged.



This is what Pelosi said:

quote:

Asked at a news conference on Capitol Hill about the possibility of anti-government rhetoric leading to violence, Pelosi, D-Calif., started to choke up as she recalled violent episodes that took place in San Francisco.

"I have concerns about some of the language that is being used because I saw -- I saw this myself in the late '70s in San Francisco, this kind of -- of rhetoric was very frightening and it gave -- it created a climate in which we -- violence took place," Pelosi said.
  
"And so I wish that we would all, again, curb our enthusiasm in some of the statements that are made, understanding that -- that some of the people -- the ears it is falling on are not as balanced as the person making the statement might assume," she said.

"But, again, our country is great because people can say what they think and they believe, but I also think that they have to take responsibility for any incitement that they may cause." http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/nancy-pelosi-chokes-up-amid-fear s-of-political-violence.html



quote:

Census taker Bill Sparkman's naked body was found earlier this month near a rural Kentucky cemetery, his neck bound with a rope and the word "Fed" scrawled across his chest. The area where his body was discovered is remote, and is known as a hot spot for marijuana production. Friends of Sparkman had warned to him to be careful when heading out there for his job, "but he'd just shrug his shoulders," says friend Gilbert Acciardo. Having "Fed" written on his body has prompted the obvious question: was Sparkman killed in some frenzy of antigovernment rage? Both the Department of Homeland Security and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) have warned of a dramatic spike in antigovernment militia activity.

While the SPLC sees little evidence of hate groups targeting the Census Bureau, there isn't much sympathy for Sparkman on those groups' Web sites. "I've seen census folks poking around on private property like they own everything in sight," posts one visitor to Stormfront.org, a white supremacist site. "Eastern Kentucky is probably the last place you'd want to do that." Another worries that the killing might free up the government to manipulate the census: "This could be a bad thing, they may just fore-go [sic] the count and make up the numbers they need to complete the total subversion of the Constitution." The nastiest comment posted? A Ku Klux Klan member aims for laughs for the one-liner "Hopefully someone remembered to subtract the census by one."

Those comments don't reflect the views of the wider public, which doesn't pay much attention to the census at all. But while for many Americans the census can seem like a boring triviality, for some political activists, it is a lightning rod for political protest. That's because everyone forgets about the census until we get hit with it each decade, "when it suddenly becomes a way of framing the political issues of the time," says census historian and University of Wisconsin professor Margo J. Anderson. (See census art and cartoons through the centuries compiled by Anderson here.) The 2010 census issues include immigration reform, same-sex marriage, and government invasion of privacy. Census Bureau Director Robert Groves admitted as much to Congress last week when he stressed that the poor economy and tensions over immigration could derail participation in the head count, which is primarily used to apportion House seats and distribute some $400 billion in federal aid. Groves pointed to foreclosures, families doubling up in single dwellings, increased homelessness, competing and incorrect news from the blogosphere, and the rise of Internet scamming as obstacles. He also "desperately" asked for help from Congress in keeping political bickering away from the census, arguing that "once destroyed, public trust cannot be easily or quickly restored."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/216590



quote:

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I’m going to be telling you about a story that we just learned about. This is amazing, this e-mail I received moments ago. It is an e-mail that came from a pastor who recently in a sermon said that he wants Sasha and Malia to be fatherless and that he wants Michelle Obama to be a widow.

That’s just the beginning of what you are about to hear. I will take you through it.

SANCHEZ: All right. Hello again, everybody. I’m Rick Sanchez with the next generation of news. This is a conversation. It is not a speech. And it is your turn to get involved.

It is my duty as a journalist to make you aware of a deeply disturbing trend taking that is taking place in our country and how it ironically folds into yet another story that I shared with you just last week.

A CNN source with very close to the U.S. Secret Service confirmed to me today that threats on the life of the president of the United States have now risen by as much as 400 percent since his inauguration, 400 percent death threats against Barack Obama — quote — “in this environment” go far beyond anything the Secret Service has seen with any other president.

Now, I need to have you keep in mind today as we add details to this story of what we’re going to share with you here. I want to take you back 11 days ago, when Mr. Obama visited Phoenix, Arizona. Do you remember this man? He’s one of a dozen or so people who carried guns to that presidential event that we have been checking on.

You may remember that we heard him say on camera that he is prepared to resort to forceful resistance against the Obama administration. Now, today, I want to tell you about the church that that man attends. And, in particular, I am going to play for you parts of the sermon that were delivered from the pulpit on the very day before the president arrived in Phoenix, Arizona.

This is important. This, my friends, I believe you will agree, is chilling.

PASTOR STEVEN ANDERSON, FAITHFUL WORD BAPTIST CHURCH: Tonight, I want to preach this sermon. And you have probably never heard a sermon like this before. Actually, you probably have if you have been coming to church here for a while. But you know what? Here is my sermon, why I hate Barack Obama. That’s my sermon tonight, because Barack Obama is coming to town tomorrow morning.

Barack Obama is coming to town. And he is going to be here tomorrow morning. Who knew that he was coming to town? I didn’t know. I just found out recently with his health care and everything like this.

And I’m going to tell you something. I hate Barack Obama. You say, well, you just mean you don’t like what he stands for. No, I hate the person. Oh, you mean you just don’t like his policies. No, I hate him.

SANCHEZ: There is more and it is much worse. First, I want you to know the voice you heard there was that of Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona. On the day before the president’s visit, Mr. Anderson told his parishioners that he hates Barack Obama and wants him dead. This was Anderson from the pulpit saying the president deserves to die for supporting abortion rights. That is what he means when he uses the word violence. All right. Here is some more. http://pubrecord.org/multimedia/4273/during-sermon-arizona-pastor-tells/comment-page-1/  



quote:

Frank Schaeffer is an outspoken critic of the politicized Christian evangelical right. He sees the “End Times” movement as anti-Semitic. He fears that a right-wing terrorist might assassinate the President of the United States.

None of these talking points would be novel on the left, but Schaeffer is hardly a bleeding heart liberal. His father, Dr. Francis Schaeffer, is considered to be the godfather of the modern religious right movement. Schaeffer himself took up the family mission and became a prominent speaker and writer, promoting many of the sentiments that have given rise to the politically active, extremely well organized and zealous movement of today. He left the religious right in the 1980s, and was a Republican until 2000.

In an interview with Raw Story, Schaeffer -- who has a new book coming out this month called Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism) -- discussed his concerns about the radicalization of the Christian right and the increasingly violent rhetoric he foresees turning into actual violence.

"Since President Obama took office I've felt like the lonely -- maybe crazy -- proverbial canary in the coal mine," Schaeffer said. "As a former right wing leader, who many years ago came to my senses and began to try to undo the harm the movement of religious extremism I helped build has done, I've been telling the media that we're facing a dangerous time in our history. A fringe element of the far right Republican Party seems it believes it has a license to incite threatening behavior in the name of God."

"The bestselling status of the Left Behind novels proves that, not unlike Islamist terrorists who behead their enemies, many evangelical/fundamentalist readers relish the prospect of God doing lots of messy killing for them as they watch in comfort from on high," he added. "They want revenge on all people not like them -- forever."

The former religious right leader also says he's worried President Obama could be assassinated -- or that extremists might launch another "Oklahoma" type bombing.

"Sadly that line from the 'Godfather' sticks in my brain about the fact that anyone can be killed," Schaeffer told Raw Story. "The scary thing is that there are a number of pastors on record as saying they are praying for the President’s death. Can you imagine what some gun-toting paranoid who hears that in a sermon is thinking and might do? And to them the fact that 'the world' likes this black man is reason enough to hate him. You wait. The reaction to Obama winning the Nobel Prize will be entirely negative from the far Religious Right. 'See the world, all those socialists like him that just proves he’s a -- fill in the blank -- communist, secret Muslim, the Antichrist, whatever.'" http://rawstory.com/2009/10/former-right-wing-leader-warns-of-reli  gious-right-violence-anyone-can-be-killed/



quote:

The MSNBC picture showing arms being carried to a townhall didn’t ‘pan upwards’ to show that the man was wearing an SEIU pro-union t-shirt.  He was there to CONFRONT the protestors, not support them.  



Citations please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUmCj4yud4

quote:

A man arrested at the scene of President Barack Obama’s visit to Portsmouth, New Hampshire Tuesday was found to be in possession of a loaded, unlicensed gun, SeaCoastOnline reported late Tuesday night.

The site’s news page carrying the story was down Wednesday morning. The man’s arrest comes in addition to reports of a second man carrying a licensed gun outside the event. A video report on the arrest follows.

“Richard Terry Young, 62, of 821 Ocean Blvd. in Hampton, was arrested around 9:40 a.m., hours before Obama’s arrival, and charged with the misdemeanor crimes of criminal trespass and carrying a loaded pistol without a license,” the paper wrote.

“Young was found inside Portsmouth High School, where Obama later in the day held his town hall-style forum,” the paper added. “Young was detained by the Secret Service and subsequently arrested by Portsmouth Lt. Corey MacDonald. Young was carrying a pocket knife, police said. A subsequent search of his vehicle, parked on school property, revealed a loaded hand gun, police said.

“Police said Young is being investigated by the Secret Service for possible federal crimes resulting from the same series of events,” the story continued. “Bail was not immediately set, and Young was in the custody of Portsmouth police on Tuesday night.”
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/12/man-arrested-outside-obama-event-had-loaded-gun/  



quote:

Video of the unidentified man toting an assault rifle outside President Obama's speech to veterans Monday was aired all over the country, causing a buzz about weapons popping up -- legally -- around recent presidential events.

The protester, who refused to give his name, was interviewed by a man carrying a microphone and said, "I am almost always armed."

The interview, done by Libertarian radio talk show host Ernest Hancock, was staged.

"Absolutely," Hancock told CNN's Rick Sanchez Tuesday. "You guys are so easy. What we wanted to do was make sure that people around the country knew that law enforcement in Phoenix, Arizona, protects our rights."

The Phoenix-based host of "Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock" identified the bespectacled man with the AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle as "Chris," saying he's known him for two years as part of a younger generation of Libertarians.

"We are up against a tyrannical government that will rob the next generation as long as they can get away with it," Hancock said.

Chris "understands that his generation is going to be plundered until there is nothing left to plunder," he added.

And while Hancock admitted the interview was staged, he insisted the protester's message was not.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/obama.protest.rifle/



quote:

In an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press," Pelosi said "doctors of the church" have not been able to define when life begins and that "over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy."
The TRUTH:  Catholic Archbishop Donald Wuerl, citing the teaching responsibility entrusted to bishops, issued a statement that read, in part: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable."  Birth at conception



quote:

Circa 100 to 150 CE: The Didache (also known as "The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles"), was a document written for the guidance of Christians. It forbade all abortions.
bullet Prior to 380 CE: Many Christian leaders issued unqualified condemnations of abortion. So did two church synods in the early 4th century:
bullet Circa 380 CE: The Apostolic Constitutions allowed abortion if it was done early enough in pregnancy. But it condemned abortion if the fetus was of human shape and contained a soul.
bullet St. Augustine (354-430 CE) accepted the Aristotelian Greek Pagan concept of "delayed ensoulment". He wrote that a human soul cannot live in an unformed body. 3 Thus, early in pregnancy, an abortion is not murder because no soul is destroyed (or, more accurately, only a vegetable or animal soul is terminated).
bullet Pope Innocent III (1161-1216):
bullet He determined that a monk who had arranged for his lover to have an abortion was not guilty of murder if the fetus was not "animated" at the time.
bullet Early in the 13th century, he stated that the soul enters the body of the fetus at the time of "quickening" - when the woman first feels movement of the fetus. Before that time, abortion was a less serious sin, because it terminated only potential human person, not an actual human person.
bullet Pope Sixtus V (1588) issued a Papal bull "Effraenatam" which threatened those who carried out abortions at any stage of gestation with excommunication and the death penalty.
bullet Pope Gregory XIV (1591) revoked the previous Papal bull and reinstated the "quickening" test, which he determined happened 116 days into pregnancy (16½ weeks).
bullet Pope Pius IX (1869) dropped the distinction between the "fetus animatus" and "fetus inanimatus." The soul was believed to have entered the pre-embryo at conception.
bullet Leo XIII (1878-1903):
bullet He Issued a decree in 1884 that prohibited craniotomies. This is an unusual form of abortion used under crisis situations late in pregnancy. It is occasionally needed to save the life of the pregnant woman.
bullet He issued a second degree in 1886 that prohibited all procedures that directly killed the fetus, even if done to save the woman's life.
bullet Canon law was revised in 1917 and 1983 to refer simply to "the fetus."  The church penalty for abortions at any stage of pregnancy was, and remains, excommunication.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c.htm




rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


49 posted 10-16-2009 08:37 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I’m having difficulty understanding why America is more enraged over illegal aliens receiving health care benefits than they are having illegal aliens in our country.

We pay the Gov to take care of the core issue. They’ve not done their job. So what makes us think we should trust any figure they compile pertaining to Illegals or the manure-like benefits we so highly value with civil unrest. Why does Joe Wilson have anything to “You Lie!” about?

Invisible horses are carting away our substandard crap….so we make the crap better and that will really stop them from wanting to steal from us? No, wait, they’re invisible. That’s not possible. Nor logical. But it all sure stinks.

As far as the new racial allegations against Rush? Good for him. World: Please meet His Press. It’s sure to gain him more air-time than ever….which means MORE to CHARITY next fiscal season. GO Rush!
 
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