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Passions in Poetry

Lack Of Encouargement

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nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


25 posted 08-22-2009 06:40 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Doesn't it get tiresome  having those who are newer or newest on these forums  complain about how it is run or how  we  create poetry or respond to others.

I feel like telling some to "GET A LIFE!" and to stop bragging about how many other forums they post on the internet or how many are better forums than what we have here. If that is the case then why be here?

Many of us on here and those who have been here for almost 10 years or so are here because we enjoy reading and writing poetry and prose and came from sites that either closed down or had so much in-fighting or spam that it became unbearable.

Some read more than others and some post more than others. It shouldn't be a dumping ground for some from other poetry forums to  drop 3 a day  but never respond to others, either.


I did go and respond  today, as I sometimes do, to not just teens but those who have "0's" next to their names  but only because I have the time and if I understood what they were writing about.

A forum can't be all things to all people. And  believe it or not many on here do have lives  outside of poetry and may not have as much time to be on as others do.

Besides that, I have had many poems before on here that have been lucky to have 3-5 responses and I don't get upset because I don't post just for the replies.


Many people on here have met in real, have  friendships on line, too, but don't EXPECT replies just because of that.  

One more thing, some of us may not feel comfortable critiquing a poem the way others may be able to. And if all we do is pick a favorite line or say something complimentary or if we know the poem has to do with real life and comment on it for support...what is wrong with that???

Anyway...I have been following this and wanted to have a voice. I am sure there will be some or even many who will disagree with me...but this is all I intend to say since I don't like "alley" fights.

M
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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26 posted 08-22-2009 07:09 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
As Grinch said, the poetry in these forums is merely a vehicle.

Moon, there is absolutely nothing mere about a vehicle that takes you where you need to go. A poem that doesn't communicate something to someone somewhere is like a pretty shiny Mustang you bought off the new car lot and then parked in your garage for the next thirty years. If it brings you personal pleasure, fine, but please don't ask me to spend the night in your garage with it. I want to GO somewhere.

Grinch and Moonbeam are pretty much on the same page (at least in this) and always have been. For them, the path to learning or teaching is strewn with very recognizable landmarks. When those landmarks are absent, they get a little lost, I think. They forget, perhaps, that metaphorically, all roads lead to Rome.

That's okay. This site has never tried to be all things to all people. Throwing a dictionary and grammar primer into a baby's crib is potentially one way to teach him to talk. It's never been my way. I have always believed that good communication isn't simply taught. First, it is made desirable. Then, it can be emulated. Many of us need to see something to make it work. Later, sometimes much later, when everyone is finally ready, we can sit down and talk about WHY something works.

We're all on the same path. We're all heading in the same direction, moving towards the same destination. Fortunately, however, we're not all crowded into that same little bend in the road. I suspect it would get uncomfortably crowded if we were.


Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


27 posted 08-22-2009 09:58 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Well, another chance to make myself unpopular . . .
Iíve always considered PIP more of a social rather
than a poetry site.  The truth is the poetry here including
my own usually tends to swim at the shallow end of the pool,
which I personally donít have a problem with.
Randall Jarrell said that a poet is: ďsomeone who is always
standing outside in a storm in hope of being struck by lightning;
should that happen five or six times he is a good poet, a dozen
or more a great oneĒ.  To me that price is too high.  For
anyone who is serious, (for which he or she  has my sympathy),
thereís my Word File of poems by others which Iíve collected
over the past ten to fifteen years now close to five hundred pages.
If they ask for it I send it as far better company and encouragement
than I, who am not a poet, could ever offer.


.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


28 posted 08-22-2009 10:10 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Grinch and Moonbeam are pretty much on the same page (at least in this) and always have been


Not even close Ron.

We do agree on some things but this definitely isn't one of them. Moon is passionate that poetry and the advancement of poetry should be central on a poetry site. Which is a legitimate opinion with some merits. I accept that people are central although I recognise that in accepting that I also have to accept some unpleasant and, at least to me, frustrating side effects.

Poetry on a people centric site isn't the main focus, the main focus is social interaction or as you put it, communication. That's not to say that the quality of poetry and poets aren't improved, it's just that, as I said earlier, the improvement is an incidental by-product of the interaction rather than a specific aim.

Call it poetry by osmosis if you like.

Moon is passionate about poetry; to be brutally honest I don't share his passion. I enjoy explaining what an .ini file is or debating the health bill a lot more than I enjoy writing poetry.

.
Alison
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29 posted 08-22-2009 10:13 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

quote:
The truth is the poetry here including
my own usually tends to swim at the shallow end of the pool,
which I personally donít have a problem with.



Why would this be a problem to anyone?  Can't poetry be written just for the enjoyment of writing it?  Not all of us have high asperations of being a famous, well-received poet.  

I learn a lot from watching and sharing thoughts.  Sometimes I walk away and learn how I don't want to write.  But, some one else loves that same poem that I mentally rejected.  

I am sorry that there is no CA board in PiP now.  I didn't use it much - but I learned a lot from it.  Sometimes, I learned how NOT to critique.  Sometimes, I learned pointers that I could apply to my writing.  I wish we had a forum similar to the CA now.

I also think that time here and who has met who (whom?) doesn't mean a lot to many of us.  It's great that there have been PiP get-togethers.  It's great that there will be more tomorrow.  That does not mean that those who have not been here for a decade have less reason to have opinions.  I don't agree with Yoin, but I think he had a right to express his wrong opinion (that was a joke, Yoin!).  Who cares how long he has been a member?  He's here now and he has been participating - that makes him okay in my book.

That length of time speech was given to me when I first came to PiP too - it almost made me leave.

Alison
crosscountry83
Member
since 07-30-2009
Posts 335


30 posted 08-22-2009 10:41 PM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

I'm glad you didn't leave Allison.  Ugh, can't even think of what it would be like... (shudders) I really do agree with you, I wish we had a critical analysis forum.  Why isn't there one anymore?

Rileigh
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


31 posted 08-22-2009 11:39 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

How is one to understand poetry without understanding the people who write it, AND, the political/socioeconomic climate in which it is written?

Can we study Beethoven or Goya without understanding Napoleon?  Shelly's Frankenstein without understanding the weather during 1816?

I don't think it was ever Ron's intention for the Alley to become a political stomping ground -- but I think it was inevitable, and essential -- to a good poetry forum.

I don't feel much like a poet at this point in my life and therefor don't write (or read) a lot of poetry (much to the appreciation of the fans of good poetry!)  I am though, interested in people, and how and why we think and do.  

My own interpretation of the teen forums has always been 'of and by'.  Teens are, after all, as welcome in the Open forum as any.
nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


32 posted 08-23-2009 07:41 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

just to defend my "length of time" usage in my response...it wasn't to deter nor to  mean that  those here longer have any more pull on this forum site nor that  they  are better writers. Nor did I mean to imply that having met in real leaves others out.

  Alison, I am hurt by the fact that these comments were used  in the negative when they were to show that if  people have  stayed around that long and  also have had the opportunity to meet others that have something in common with them...then this site has had a good affect on some of our lives.
  Just as some would rather argue pro and con in the alley or philosophy only, giving them a place to share their knowledge. Ron has given us many means to communicate.

Many have improved in their poetry and  for those who think the poetry at the shallow end...well that is just their opinion as we all have them.

Words have many meanings  and taken out of context is one of the  major problems with being on line and unvoiced.

One more comment, there is also a suggestion  forum... which is probably where Yoinn's idea may have been better placed.

[This message has been edited by nakdthoughts (08-23-2009 11:22 AM).]

moonbeam
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33 posted 08-23-2009 07:43 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam


quote:
__________________________________________

There is also a good deal of raw talent, and a sincerity about writing for writing's sake which doesn't regrettably find much of an echo elsewhere in the site.
____________________________________________


I have to take issue with this statement, moonbeam...

I call a foul...

shellie


Sorry Shellie it wasn't meant as an adverse criticism.  It's simply that I pesonally regret it, it's not for me, it's an opinion only.  There is certainly nothing inherently "wrong" with the forums - they serve a purpose and people have a wonderful time there, and that's fine.  

I don't have a lot of time, but as usual your response was bang on target Ron, and entirely predictable and understandable.  We don't disagree as much as we may appear to.  I believe, like you, that all forms of art are forms of communication between people.  How can they be otherwise?  They are what they are.  The reason I used the word "mere" was simply to suggest this inevitablity, this intrinsic property.

Your Mustang analogy is apposite.  

Do you want to get where you're going in that Mustang Ron or in a hastily, knocked together soapbox on wheels?

Sure you can travel in a soapbox and move forward; it's true many people have no pride in their cars and no interest in improving them.  And therein I think lies the difference bewteen us vis a vis this site: you place all the emphasis on the journey and I am constantly trying to improve the vehicle in which we travel so that it's very presence enhances the experience of the journey instead of being a "mere" conveyance.  The two can I guess conflict; as when I want to slow down or stop to retouch a dent or scratch and you want to push on.  

I kind of hoped that PiP would be a racecourse where there was room for both wheeled soapboxes and aspiring Mustangs.  Grinch is only partly right you see.  Within the whole racecourse site there might have been different circuits.  
brneyedgrly
Senior Member
since 06-08-2009
Posts 1126
nowhere and everywhere


34 posted 08-23-2009 10:32 AM       View Profile for brneyedgrly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brneyedgrly


Ron

Why don't you create new forums called 'Wheeled Soapboxes' and 'Aspiring Mustangs' and then Moonbeam and the others could argue over who deserves to be in which category...lol

All I can say, and these hopefully will be my last words, is that I am a proud soapbox and a newbie and due to some harassment on the site lately, I have looked at other sites to go to...but can't find one as fitting as Pip.

So.......I'm here to stay for many reasons, including to continually learn how to write and I think I am in really great company.  You know, it takes a lot of courage to put oneself out there...I have an anxiety attack each time I'm ready to press submit.  

It doesn't help to know that people think it unworthy.  Moonbeam.......would love to see some of your Mustang work!

Maureen     understood what you were saying.

Thanks for your time.

Shel

.
moonbeam
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35 posted 08-23-2009 11:35 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

quote:
"It doesn't help to know that people think it unworthy.  Moonbeam.......would love to see some of your Mustang work!"


~sigh~ Why are people so determined to find a problem?  

Shel, what part of:

"Sorry Shellie it wasn't meant as an adverse criticism.  It's simply that I personally regret it, it's not for me, it's an opinion only.  There is certainly nothing inherently "wrong" with the forums - they serve a purpose and people have a wonderful time there, and that's fine."

didn't you get?

But to spell it out, there's nothing "unworthy" about using poetry purely as a means of communication.  

And if you want to see my work just do a search on my name, the search button at the top of the page.    

In point of fact I like your writing a lot, and your suggestions to Ron have been made many times.  He doesn't want to go that route, and I don't blame him really.

And to Maureen: I agree with Alison, longevity gives no monopoly on valid opinion; and anyway I've been here longer than you.    
brneyedgrly
Senior Member
since 06-08-2009
Posts 1126
nowhere and everywhere


36 posted 08-23-2009 11:38 AM       View Profile for brneyedgrly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brneyedgrly


ummm...I did do a search

stand by my statements and refuse to argue

thanks
moonbeam
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37 posted 08-23-2009 11:42 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I refuse to argue too - no-one is making judgements here, we all write for different reasons all are equally valid imo.  You misunderstood me is all.

Take care and peace.
brneyedgrly
Senior Member
since 06-08-2009
Posts 1126
nowhere and everywhere


38 posted 08-23-2009 11:50 AM       View Profile for brneyedgrly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brneyedgrly


no hard feelings...

don't need any more unpleasantness here



shel
moonbeam
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39 posted 08-23-2009 12:27 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



Hugs right back Shel.  

I need to work on expressing myself better.
Alison
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40 posted 08-23-2009 12:43 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Maureen,

I am truly sorry that I hurt you with my response to your post.  

Alison
nakdthoughts
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since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


41 posted 08-23-2009 05:41 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

moonbeam, as usual you are taking my longevity out of context and you don't know how long I have been here since I was under another name when first here... so you can agree with Alison although my  full sentence on the length of time began with "Many of us on here and those who have been here for almost 10 years....  so  it seems like you just  want to continue to argue and I am done...

Thank you Alison, I hope you understand that it was a misunderstanding.

M
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


42 posted 08-23-2009 06:37 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


ďAnd gentlemen in England now abed . . .Ē

Pretty much goes for poets too.
Poetry is not life.


.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


43 posted 08-23-2009 07:32 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


.. Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here
And hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks
That fought with us upon St. Crispin's Day.

I thought St. Crispin's day was the 25th of October.

.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


44 posted 08-23-2009 07:35 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


That my friend
depends on whom
you're talking to . . .

.
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