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Oh, those Little Details!!

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Local Rebel
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350 posted 08-25-2009 09:17 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I think Lieberman has touched off a largely academic debate since the plan won't be going into effect largely until 2012-13?  You have to remember -- Obama is still trying to find a few good Men (and Women) so to speak -- in Washington to fill key vacancies -- still 43% go unfilled due to the extremely high bar he set for vetting these people.

It's going to take time to implement once it is signed into law -- that's another reason to make progress quickly.

Some jobs will be lost -- but that's just creative destruction -- right Mike?  You were willing to throw a whole bunch of auto workers under the bus -- still seem to be -- in the name of creative destruction.  Wherefore this newfound concern for Joe?

Actually though -- I think the effect is going to be quite opposite once Healthcare Reform goes into effect -- because you'll see a wave of entrepreneurship like we've never seen since the wild wild west.  
Ron
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351 posted 08-25-2009 09:29 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sacrifice is when you give up one thing to get something else, Mike. This isn't sacrifice.

This is paying the piper.

If you really think 70 percent of America is satisfied with their health care, Mike, let's let them directly pay for it for a while (instead of indirectly paying for it). I'm guessing that 70 percent mostly includes the ones who still think they're getting something for nothing? The ones who haven't realized they are nonetheless at the mercy of their employers and insurance adjusters? The ones who have been running up the tab that Joe the Plumber and Harry SixPack will now have to pay?

Supply and demand is broken in the health care industry, Mike. The problem has grown large and will continue to grow larger. If we don't fix it soon, it may not be fixable. I think it's time and past time we pay the piper so we can build a stronger economy for everyone.


Balladeer
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352 posted 08-25-2009 01:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You pick a strange time to pay the piper, Ron. What do you intend to pay him with?

Yes, no doubt the 70% percent are deluded fools who have no idea what they are saying. There seems to be a lot of that these days.

Build a stronger economy? Is that what we're doing? Do you see any evidence of that anywhere with regards to Obama's actions? The stimulus bill didn't stimulate. The "instant" jobs promised somehow never made their presence. The biggest beneficiaries of the cash for clunkers program were foreign auto companies. The deficit has more than quadrupled. The unemployment rate has gone up over 25% of what it was. Is this the stronger economy you refer to?

It's becoming another cartoon strip...

"Hello, Joe the Plumber. Sorry we don't have a job for you but  you can rest easy in knowing that Brad Figley, a 30 year old engineer making 60,000 a year who doesn't pay for health care because he is young, healthy and feels he doesn't need it, NOW has health care, thanks to you! Your sacrifice has helped him and many like him  have total health care benefits, just like you have! The next time your bank hassles you over mortgage payments, or your son complains there is no cash available to get him a baseball glove, remind them that you are helping fellow Americans in their time of need get health care...and say it with pride!  

Right....
Balladeer
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353 posted 08-25-2009 02:05 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

still 43% go unfilled due to the extremely high bar he set for vetting these people.

Thank you, Reb, for possibly the most hilarious comment ever to grace the Alley.

What Leiberman has done is to get people to think. He is very highly regarded among all parties, and especially independents. Obama does not want to lose the independents - and by all polls, he is.

A wave on entreprenurialship? Oh, you mean a wave of people scrambling for their lives? Could be...is that the way you want to claim the job loss will be offset? With the current unemployment at a decade long high right now, wouldn't you expect to see a wave now....or even a ripple? That's a pretty weak piece of reasoning...
Grinch
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354 posted 08-25-2009 03:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Mike,

I keep hearing that 70% figure, to save me a bit of work is that 70% of the people who have private health plans who are happy? Or 70% of the number of insured whether by public or private cover? Or is it 70% of all Americans?

It's a serious question btw, no tricks or traps, I'm honestly curious.

.
Balladeer
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355 posted 08-25-2009 06:42 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

My name's Mike, not Google.

hmmm..where have I seen something like that before?

..not interested in a discussion with you, sir.
Balladeer
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356 posted 08-25-2009 06:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Btw, Ron, your comment..

Sacrifice is when you give up one thing to get something else, Mike.

....indicates you did not get a lot out of Rand's thoughts. When you give up something to get something else, that's not a sacrifice. That's an exchange. You value what you are to receive more than what you are giving up.

Sacrifice is when you give up something and get nothing in return.

THAT is Ayn Rand's definition of sacrifice.
Grinch
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357 posted 08-25-2009 06:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


No problem Mike.

I'll check it out.

Grinch
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358 posted 08-25-2009 07:43 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I found some stats Mike:


A random national sample of 1,201 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, PA.

quote:
Thinking about health care in the country as a whole, are you generally satisfied or dissatisfied with the quality of health care in this country?


Satisfied = 44%
Dissatisfied = 54%
No opinion = 2%

quote:
And are you generally satisfied or dissatisfied with the total cost of health care in this country?


Satisfied = 18%
Dissatisfied = 80%
No opinion = 2%

quote:
Thinking now about the number of Americans who have no health insurance - do you think that’s (a critical problem for the country, a serious problem but not a critical one, a problem but not serious, or not much of a problem at all)?


a critical problem = 52%
a serious problem but not critical = 36%
a problem but not serious = 7%
not much of a problem at all = 4%

.
Balladeer
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359 posted 08-25-2009 07:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

WASHINGTON – In a chilling forecast, the White House is predicting a 10-year federal deficit of $9 trillion — more than the sum of all previous deficits since America's founding. And it says by the next decade's end the national debt will equal three-quarters of the entire U.S. economy.

But before President Barack Obama can do much about it, he'll have to weather recession aftershocks including unemployment that his advisers said Tuesday is still heading for 10 percent.

"This recession was simply worse than the information that we and other forecasters had back in last fall and early this winter," said Obama economic adviser Christina Romer.

The deficit numbers also could complicate Obama's drive to persuade Congress to enact a major overhaul of the health care system — one that could cost $1 trillion or more over 10 years. Obama has said he doesn't want the measure to add to the deficit, but lawmakers have been unable to agree on revenues that would cover the cost.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090825/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_economy_22

Not their fault...they just didn't know! (once again). The piper may have to wait.....
Balladeer
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360 posted 08-25-2009 08:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Among insured Americans, 82 percent rate their health coverage positively. Among insured people who've experienced a serious or chronic illness or injury in their family in the last year, an enormous 91 percent are satisfied with their care, and 86 percent are satisfied with their coverage.

There's long been a schism in concern about health care costs: Most Americans are dissatisfied with the costs of the system overall, and apprehensive about their future expenses — but satisfied with their own current costs.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html
Local Rebel
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361 posted 08-25-2009 09:44 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm going to ignore the partisan sniping and keep my limited focus limited to what's worth talking about!

quote:

A wave on entreprenurialship? Oh, you mean a wave of people scrambling for their lives? Could be...is that the way you want to claim the job loss will be offset? With the current unemployment at a decade long high right now, wouldn't you expect to see a wave now....or even a ripple? That's a pretty weak piece of reasoning...



The reasoning is the same that I've always used Mike:

quote:

Now, let's take the guy in the corner cubicle who has a great idea for a new business -- but he can't quit because his wife has pre-existing conditions which would prevent him from buying health coverage if he wanted to open that small business where he could make 250k per year.

So, instead -- he doesn't take the risk.  He stays safe -- makes 60k, keeps his head down and waters the plants in his cubicle day after day.

A bigger saftey net will encourage more people to walk the high wire.
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/000010-3.html#64



Not only will people who couldn't start new ventures before be able to start them -- but people who are working for companies that are providing critical coverage will be available to go to work in those start-ups.

If you know of a better way for job creation than new ideas and new business then I'm all ears.  Or, I guess... eyes as it were.

We know already Mike -- that you don't like the government providing jobs -- I thought you'd be in favor of entrepreneurship!  
Balladeer
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362 posted 08-25-2009 10:12 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

For every guy in that corner cubicle making 60k with a great idea for a new business, there are thousands wishing they had that cubicle 60k job.

What percentage of the working public does cubicle guy represent? Enough to offset the record-high unemployment level? Somehow I doubt it.

So then the cubicle guy is being held back because he doesn't have free health insurance and has to stay with a job that provides it, thus stifling his entrepreneural spirit. He's probably held back because he has to make car payments, too, and maybe even house payments. Let's have the government provide everyone with cars and houses, too....easy solution. Then everyone will be able to go out there and form their own companies and live  their dreams. Surely there must be somewhere in the constitution which entitles people to these freebies, no?

LR, history is filled with entrepreneurs who went out there and took the chance...no guarantees, no safety nets, no nothing but courage and confidence in  their abilities. Tell cubicle guy to grow some cojones and stop using excuses to drag his feet. A good entrepreneur will find a way to succeed. The bad ones should have stayed in the cubicles and suffered with their 60k and company-provided health care.
Denise
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363 posted 08-26-2009 12:12 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

LR, the thing that I find most abhorant about the VA YLYC book is that it lays upon people, at their most vulnerable, the proposition to consider if they might be a burden, emotionally or financially to their families and to society under a variety of different scenarios laid out in the book from depression, being confined to a wheelchair, living in a nursing home, not being able to 'contribute' to family or society, etc. And that if they wish to discuss their 'options', including 'I feel life isn't worth living', they are directed to contact the association formerly known as The Hemlock Society.

By the way, haven't these folks, most especially, contributed more than their fair share to society?
Local Rebel
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364 posted 08-26-2009 06:20 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I said nothing about 'free' health care Mike -- I said

quote:

but he can't quit because his wife has pre-existing conditions which would prevent him from buying health coverage if he wanted to open that small business where he could make 250k per year.



Let's assume that he could afford to BUY it -- it isn't available at any price.  So you think he just needs to have the balls to hang his wife's life out in the wind?  For the sake of argument I'm just going to assume you made a huge mistake in your interpretation of what I said.

How many of them do I think there are out there?  Walk through the cubicles and ask them Mike.  Talk to every guy you see on the street and ask him if he has an idea for a business he would like to start.  Talk to the cashier at Wal Mart who took a job there just so she could get some health coverage because while she was just trying to do her own thing when she or somebody else in her family got sick.

Entrepreneurship is exactly where NEW jobs come from Mike -- its the fastest way to ignite job growth and always has been -- and I'm not talking about the job of entrepreneur -- I'm talking about the jobs he or she creates.  Except that with the ability to buy into a very large group plan -- the public option in whatever form it may take -- he or she will be able to attract people into their small company who feel trapped in jobs right now simply because of health coverage.  It's going to put the little guy on an even keel with GE and Exxon Mike in their ability to attract top talent.
Local Rebel
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365 posted 08-26-2009 06:43 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Why not ask those very folks for their opinion then Denise:

quote:

Mr. DAVE AUTRY (Deputy National Director of Communications, Disabled American Veterans): It's a tempest in a teapot as far as I'm concerned, personally.

(Soundbite of laughter)

SHAPIRO: That's Dave Autry of Disabled American Veterans. More than 1,500 members are meeting in Denver this week for the group's annual convention. And Autry says the VA guide has gotten almost zero attention.

Mr. AUTRY: There are some people who have expressed concern to us that it's being used by some people as ammunition for the argument that government intervention in health care will result in pulling the plug on granny or, in this case, maybe grandfather who stormed the beaches of Normandy. And I think our members, by and large, understand that there are some political undercurrents that are, you know, certainly out of our purview.

SHAPIRO: The lobbying group for disabled veterans is often critical of the VA. But Autry says veterans trust the VA on this issue because it's been a leader in promoting good geriatric and end-of-life care.
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=112182583



quote:

Over the weekend, cable news pundits bashed the continued use of VA's end-of-life care planning manual, "Your Life, Your Choices," mislabeling the handbook as "Obama's Death Book for Veterans." AMVETS would like to set the record straight on this handbook, which has been in use with the VA for more than a decade.

"Your Life, Your Choices" is a document designed to help veterans draft a living will to determine how they will be cared for, should they be unable to make decisions for themselves. The document is very similar to documents offered by major health care providers across the U.S., including the sections dealing with end-of-life care. The book was originally issued in 1997. In 2007, the Bush Administration commissioned a panel to review the book. The panel overwhelmingly praised the manual's benefits and decided to continue circulation.
__

Last week, an op-ed was published in the Wall Street Journal by Jim Towey, founder of the non-profit "Aging With Dignity." Towey's group disagreed with the continued circulation of "Your Life, Your Choices," purporting that President Obama has recommissioned the handbook. This assertion is false. "Your Life, Your Choices" was continually circulated under the Bush Administration. Towey's motives in publishing his misleading op-ed weren't entirely benevolent. "Aging With Dignity" has its own guidebook to end-of-life care called "Five Wishes," which is available for sale on Towey's Web site. This mess is the latest act of political grandstanding, which has derailed critical work on veterans' issues.

In the op-ed and on Fox News, critics took many passages from "Your Life, Your Choices" out of context, leading viewers to believe that the book advocated assisted suicide and "pulling the plug" on aging veterans. Both of these assertions are, again, false. The book outlines all aspects of end-of-life care, including religious obligations. It advises veterans to discuss end-of-life care with their religious leaders and to suggests ways to have difficult conversations with loved ones.

There is one line in the book that addresses assisted suicide by pointing out that such procedures are illegal and irrelevant to the contents of the book, since living wills are for people who can no longer speak for themselves.
http://americanveteranmagazine.blogspot.com/2009/08/vas-your-life-your-choices-no n-issue.html



quote:

Distorting the Purpose of Veterans Affairs ‘Your Life, Your Choices.’.    Recently, some folks have been distorting the purpose of a Veterans Affairs planning tool called ‘Your Life, Your Choices.’ The booklet is designed to help Veterans deal with excruciating questions about what kind of health care they would like to receive if they are unable to make decisions for themselves, a topic that Secretary Shinseki takes very seriously as we continue to create a 21st Century Department of Veterans' Affairs that provides the care and benefits our nation's veterans have earned. The document was developed under a federally funded research grant over a decade ago and in 2007, the Veterans Health Administration convened an outside panel of experts to review the tool and assess its merits. Overwhelmingly, the panel of experts, which included a diverse group from the faith based and medical communities, praised ‘Your Life, Your Choices’ and endorsed its use in the Veterans Health Administration. Your Life, Your Choices’ is not an Advance Directive or Living Will, it is an educational resource.  The National Advance Directive that the VA utilizes today is the same document that was authorized by the Bush Administration in 2006.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=8365


[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (08-26-2009 07:20 AM).]

Balladeer
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366 posted 08-26-2009 08:03 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Talk to every guy you see on the street and ask him if he has an idea for a business he would like to start.  Talk to the cashier at Wal Mart who took a job there just so she could get some health coverage because while she was just trying to do her own thing when she or somebody else in her family got sick.

I have little doubt almost EVERY person has dreams of what they could be, or could have been. It is human to be a dreamer. It is a different thing to be a doer. I dreamed of being a famous writer. Was I willing to put in the time and effort to be one? Nope...just wanted to be one. We have wannabe movie stars, sports heroes, great inventors, presidents all walking around, serving burgers, cashiering at Wal-Mart or washing cars. Ask those same people in the street if they would leave their jobs if they had free health care to start their own businesses and see what you get.

Yes, I mis-interpreted  the pre-existing part. Ok, then, so your position is that there are enough people out there with pre-existing conditions that have them locked into a job that is preventing them from creating their own businesses to justify ObamaCare? How many are you talking? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Millions? Yes, I know the answer is who can say but it's a big stretch to believe there are more than an extremely small percentage of the populace. Sure, they would be helped. So would the mythical Fanny Marks in Minnesota that Obama claims he is doing it for. So are the boys eating at the closed diner Biden claims it is for. We are talking about tens of millions who would be affected, not the small handful their, and your, examples point out.
Local Rebel
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367 posted 08-26-2009 08:37 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Countless workers in the United States are trapped in jobs they would like to leave because they cannot get health insurance elsewhere, calcifying innovation and mobility in the world's largest economy.

Daunted by health-care costs, a would-be technology entrepreneur in Texas decides not to start her own business. A communications expert in Washington decides not to strike out on his own. And a freelance magazine editor in Brooklyn decides to take a less satisfying corporate job.

"I would rather be freelancing, no question," said Jessica Tolliver, a former editor who now works in public relations. "I got my work done in less time, because once I finished what I had to do, the time was my own."

Economists call this phenomenon "job lock," and studies suggest that it keeps between 20 percent and 50 percent of workers from leaving their current jobs.
http://ednews.org/articles/healthcare-shackles-.html




More reading: http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/careers/2009/08/05/will-health-reform-free-workers-from-job-lock.html
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368 posted 08-26-2009 09:06 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You want to know the biggest reason people are against Obama's health care plan? They have lost faith in Obama. They have no faith in Congress. Obama can promise whatever he wants. People don't believe him - republicans, democrats, independents - and with good reason. His campaign promises were talk to get elected, nothing more. The "No more politics as usual" was gibberish. The "transparency in government" was a sham. His "oil exploration in the US" was a joke. His "no pork in bills I pass" was an SNL skit. The stimulus package, that Ron claims is working, is laughable. Take a closer look......

WASHINGTON – A sleepy Montana checkpoint along the Canadian border that sees about three travelers a day will get $15 million under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan. A government priority list ranked the project as marginal, but two powerful Democratic senators persuaded the administration to make it happen.
Despite Obama's promises that the stimulus plan would be transparent and free of politics, the government is handing out $720 million for border upgrades under a process that is both secretive and susceptible to political influence. This allowed low-priority projects such as the checkpoint in Whitetail, Mont., to skip ahead of more pressing concerns, according to documents revealed to The Associated Press.

A border station in Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano's home state of Arizona is getting $199 million, five times more than any other border station. The busy Nogales checkpoint has required repairs for years but was not rated among the neediest projects on the master list reviewed by the AP.

A checkpoint in Laredo, Texas, which serves more than 55,000 travelers and 4,200 trucks a day, is rated among the government's highest priorities but was passed over for stimulus money.

• The Westhope, N.D., checkpoint, which serves about 73 people a day and is among the lowest-priority projects, is set to get nearly $15 million for renovations.

It's hardly a recent phenomenon for politicians to use their influence to steer money to their home states. Yet Obama said the stimulus would be different. He banned "earmarks," which lawmakers routinely slip into bills to pay for pet projects, and he told agencies to "develop transparent, merit-based selection criteria" for spending.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090826/ap_on_go_co/us_stimulus_border_crossings_2

Yes, I have no doubt that our Obama supporters here can somehow justify giving a checkpoint that sees three travelers a day 15 million while a checkpoint that sees 55,000 a day receives nothing but please don't embarass yourselves by trying to do so. It's all politics...all the same "Washington as usual" that Obama swore would not exist in his "government of change".

People are seeing these things. Even those who believed in Obama or were at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt are now having second thoughts, yes, even democrats and especially independents. The poor on the unemployment lines buying liquor with their food stamps could care less....Obama is their man. What do they care that an Arizona border crossing gets 15 million to handle it's three people a day? But others do. They see a stimulus package, which Obama claimed to be vital to the existence of the country, being  doled out as political favor. They see the unemployment soaring well above what Obama claimed it would reach. They see the deficit rise trillions above what Obama predicted it would reach. They do not see anything he has done which would promote employment. And now here he comes with promises of a health care plan, which ALSO is vital to save the country, the same way the stimulus and cap-and-trade bills are supposed to do. Hey, it could be a good thing but the fact is that the people don't BELIEVE him any more. His actions up to date have blown that. They see the fact  that he tried to push it through Congress at lightning speed before they went on recess and before the public had a chance to question it and it looks suspicious. They see him trying to promote a plan that doesn't even exist on paper, telling the populace to take his word for it that it will be exactly what he says it will be, and they can't believe that to be true anymore, based on his track record. He sends out congressmen to town hall meetings to attempt to answer questions concerning a bill that doesn't exist and the people don't buy it because the trust is gone.

Who knows? It could be a great plan if executed in the exact way Obama claims it will be but he is asking them to believe him that is will be that way but they want to see it in writing, based on something more tangible than his word. They don't trust him anymore....and why should they?
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369 posted 08-26-2009 09:22 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Countless workers in the United States are trapped in jobs they would like to leave because they cannot get health insurance elsewhere, calcifying innovation and mobility in the world's largest economy.

All this article is saying, reb, is that people would change jobs if given the chance, with the loss of health insurance not being a factor. What does that have to do with lowering unemployment? Instead of working for company A they are working for company B. There's no change in the figures. Yes, they give 3 small examples of people who would strike out on their own but the only point the article is making is that people are not able to CHANGE jobs..a non-issue with regards to changing unemployment figures. The ones who would actually start their own companies and hire people to work in them would be the only figure that would make a difference...and it's certainly not the 20-50% they are talking about.
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370 posted 08-26-2009 10:22 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – With the help of a $250,000 reward, the founder of the Papa John's pizza chain has finally reunited with the muscle car he sold years ago to help keep his family's business afloat.

John Schnatter sold the gold-and-black 1971 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 for $2,800 in 1983. The money helped save his father's tavern in Jeffersonville, Ind., and he used the rest to start what would become a worldwide pizza business.


It's a good thing concern about health coverage didn't keep him from becoming a success, don't you think?
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371 posted 08-29-2009 12:11 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

quote:
The book outlines all aspects of end-of-life care, including religious obligations. It advises veterans to discuss end-of-life care with their religious leaders and to suggests ways to have difficult conversations with loved ones.


You need 50 plus pages to say just that? Gotta love those 'experts'.

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


372 posted 08-30-2009 05:53 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Countless workers in the United States are trapped in jobs they would like to leave because they cannot get health insurance elsewhere, "


How many would "work" at all  . . .
Welcome to the real world.

.

Denise
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373 posted 08-31-2009 08:51 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

As a note of correction, the YLYC book was reinstituted in July. A spokesperson for the VA said it wasn't due for release until sometime in 2010, but Chris Wallace did a 'fact check' on that and found that it indeed has already been released.
 
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