Member Rara Avis
From Denise's article: In his remarks, the president ticked off points of contention that dissenters have with his proposals – "government takeover of health care … government funding of abortion … death panels" – and dismissed these concerns as "fabrications." In one swipe, Mr. Obama reduced his opposition to liars.
See, that's exactly the danger people face when they spread misinformation, either knowingly or just because they don't take the time to check something they WANT to believe is true. Misinformation gets characterized as lies and the people who spread it are labeled as liars.
The minute you complain about something that was never true, more legitimate complaints are seriously weakened.
And why, according to the president, are dissenters supposedly making all this stuff up? Because, he told his audience, they want to "discourage people from meeting … a core ethical and moral obligation ... that we look out for one another … that I am my brother's keeper. …"
Now, THERE is a legitimate complaint. To take it seriously, however, we have to assume it wasn't taken out of context, that the President actually meant what the quotation implies he meant. Personally, I can't make that assumption because most of what I've heard from this source has been utter garbage, manipulated to build fear and confusion. This potentially legitimate complaint gets lost in the muck.
I suppose truth and liberty, like beauty, are in the eye of the beholder.
Sometimes, I suppose maybe they are, Denise. Some people, for example, think they have the freedom to not pay taxes, to exact vengeance on alleged criminals, or to pollute the land and waters that everyone else has to share. Google Tragedy of the Commons and you'll find the problems of defining individual freedom is hardly new.
There are really only two choices regarding health care.
One, we can let people die. If you don't take care of yourself, if you don't build a support network of family and friends, if you don't get off your butt and work to fulfill your basic needs, then it has to be YOUR problem, not society's. Don't show up on a hospital doorstep unless you can pay for its services.
Two, we can not let people die. If health care is going to be a basic human right, as so many want to claim, then it has to be regulated so that EVERYONE has exactly the same basic human right. If a poor indigent doesn't get to choose his doctor, Denise, then neither do you. Especially if your choices impact the rights of others by raising the cost for those who can't afford it. Basic rights are, well, basic. You and I don't get to upgrade ours just because we can afford more.
Either health care is a social problem with a social solution or . . . it's not. What it cannot be, I think, is a social problem with a private, individual solution. That's not fair to those who can't afford your solution.
In 5 months that incredible amount of stimulus money has been sitting there, doing nothing, with only 10% of it being used.
So long as that ten percent is being used wisely, Mike, and the remaining 90 percent is available when it's needed, I have no problem with that. I don't spend all my money at once, either.
On last night's local news, I heard that our Michigan State Police was hiring and training fifteen troopers and three sergeants, a move directly attributed to $6.5M of stimulus money. Two days ago, I was forced to detour around a freeway overpass in Kalamazoo, again a project that wouldn't have happened without Federal stimulus money. (It was a big deal a month or two ago, in fact, because it was the 200th or 2000th or something such project to break ground. Bidden cut the ribbon.)
Is it enough? No, of course not. But I'm not blaming this administration for failing to instantly solve economic problems they inherited from past administrations (and, no, Mike, I'm not limiting that to just the last one, either). Problems more than a decade in the making aren't resolved in just a few months.
SHot down by whom? Us?
Mostly by Grinch, Mike.
Read your originating post some twelve pages back, Mike. Is there any point made in that post still in question for you? In my opinion, every single point was shot down as nonsense. People are spreading misinformation widely.
And, yea, that definitely includes a few politicians from Michigan, too.