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Racial Profiling inthe White House?

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Balladeer
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0 posted 07-25-2009 09:31 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


The situation that came about concerning the incident with the Cambridge police and the Harvard professor gives me an uncomfortable feeling that the president may lean toward the side of racism. No, this is not Limbaugh or Hannity or anyone else talking....this is just me. I've heard no one else mention this theory but, after looking back and even looking at the present and projected future, there is much there for me to support this allegation. Why  do I feel this way?

Obama's twenty year association with Reverend Wright, a self-proclaimed racist.

His wife's comments about being the "first time" she was proud of the country when Obama won the nomination.

The way he slipped racism into his campaign on occasion, to the point that even Bill Clinton accused him of playing the race card.

This current situation where he claimed not to know the facts and then proceeded to call the police actions "stupid" and then went into a speech about how police departments use racial profiling, all of this in a national press conference on Health care, in which many millions were watching.

His association and participation with ACORN, an obviously racial group at the grass roots, pressuring banks to give out unsecured loans to minorities.

His "redistribution of wealth" actions, taking from the working class and giving to the poor.

The cap and trade and his proposed health care are aimed at raising taxes on middle and upper class. I have thought that he simply doesn't think about the consequences of his bills but I'm beginning to think he does. The upper and even middle ,  class work group is predominitely white. The poor are predominately minorities. Taxes on energy doesn't  affect the poor as much because they use less energy. Taxes on health care doesn't affect the poor, of which many  don't even have it but it does make them receiptients. One can say he is simply being a Robin Hood but I get the uneasy  feeling it's deeper than that, based on everything I've seen. Perhaps he has a grudge on the United States for their treatment of blacks throughout it's history. He certainly hasn't suffered economically or politically, having made millions and becoming President. Neither has his wife, who had never been proud of the country, although she went to the best schools and made millions herself. But perhaps he has a deep-rooted dislike for the "white America" which has treated blacks as second-class citizens, regardless of their positions. I'd like to think that's not true.

The situation with the police and the professor is nothing new. A black congresswoman went ballistic when  asked for her ID by a security guard, throwing a fit, berating the guard and screaming racism.
We had an incident  here  in Florida where a  black police captain in south Florida was pulled over in north  Florida for weaving   while driving. The captain went berzerk, screaming at the officer, grabbing his driver's license back from the officer's hand, and threatening to beat him up, screaming racial profiling all the while. He was arrested. At a press conference afterwards, the captain defended  his actions, claiming that his actions were justifiable because he felt he was pulled over unfairly. When asked by  the reporter if he was advocating the same type of response for anyone pulled over if they thought they were being unfairly, he backtracked very quickly and said that  PERHAPS he had acted rashly and, no, he did not advocate that at all and wound up apologizing for his actions.
Now we have a Harvard professor going ballistic because the police responded to a possible burglar incident at his home and wanted identification. The professor made sure everyone knew he was a close friend of Obama's.

What's with these people? A congresswoman, a police captain, a Harvard professor...all successful, all prominent....and all screaming racism to the point of attacking authorities just doing their jobs. Apparently being rich or successful does not take away deep-rooted racial "victimizatiton" attitude. It could even be that way for the President of the United States. Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black,  had called Gates' arrest "every black man's nightmare."

Jesse jackson and Al Sharpeton are screaming for the officer's head...what a surprise.


Why did  Obama weigh in on this anyway? A president of the country getting involved in a local police situation and calling the police actions "stupid" without even knowing the facts? Smearing police departments all over the country for their tactics of racial profiling? I feel those same deep-rooted feelings in the president.

A multiracial group of police officers  stood with Crowley in Massachusetts and called on Obama to say he's sorry. Has he apologized? No, he hasn't. He claimed his words were "ill-chosen".

"I want to make clear that in my choice of words, I think I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department and Sgt. Crowley specifically. And I could've calibrated those words differently."   Yes, choice of words like "stupid" would give that impression.

"The fact that this has garnered so much attention, I think, is testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in America," Obama said. No, the fact that this has garnered so much attention is the the president butted in where a president shouldn't and stuck his foot in his mouth.

Obama's take on the situation: "My sense is you've got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in a way that it should have been resolved." No, the police officer could have resolved it very easily. The professor was the one out of control.

Has Obama apologized? No, he hasn't. He calls it "unfortunate" and a "teaching moment" but no apology. Let's hope it's a teaching moment for him. It COULD be a teaching moment for all of us.

There are some of you who may think I'm suggesting this because I just don't like Obama but I've given  it a lot of thought and welcome comments.

Grinch
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1 posted 07-25-2009 12:29 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Hmm..

Gates is a man and he's is reported to be Obama's "friend".

ACORN supports gay and lesbian rights groups.

Cap and trade is heavily supported by those groups too.

Maybe he's gay.

Huan Yi
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2 posted 07-25-2009 01:34 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"playing the race card"


Duh


.
Bob K
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3 posted 07-26-2009 03:40 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I need more information.

     My experience with the Cambridge police is that they are an excellent department of highly trained officers.  They have had to deal with a lot of highly charged situations over the years and are exceptional at doing so.  There are difficult officers in any department, but I have never heard of a Sergeant Crowley in that regard.  The department is especially careful in upscale parts of town, knowing that the town is composed of a combination of somewhat conservative folks and very liberal folks, all of which can be thorny as porcupines with a heat rash on any given day.

     My understanding is that the Sergeant Crowley responded to a report from a neighbor and found Henry Gates and his chauffeur having entered Professor Gates' house through the back.  Not knowing professor Gates, a request for identification was made by the Sergeant and was indignantly refused by the Professor.

     I can see both sides here.  The Sergeant, seeing two men wearing backpacks, in the back of a house — I don't know if the house had been reported as vacant by the caller or not — would naturally want to check out their suspicions and the complaint, but do it as tactfully as possible.  He chose to ask for identification.  I don't know how he asked or what gestures or posturings attended the request on either side.  I have no reason to believe it was anything other than a simple request, and as such a minimal use of police powers.  Response from Professor Gates by refusing the request for identification would naturally have lead to some sort increased police response as a matter of safety.  Exactly how that was done, I don't know.

     From the other side, the professor and his Chauffeur returned from a trip to China.  Unable to get in through the front door, they went around to the back, where they succeeded in getting in where they were shortly surprised by the arrival of Sergeant Crowley.  Was he alone?  I don't know.  But both the professor and his companion were evidently tired.  The Professor has a somewhat fiery reputation for his positions on black history, and is one of the foremost scholars in the field.  He writes regularly for The New Yorker and does not, apparently, suffer fools lightly.  He is extraordinarily sensitive to many of the issues that others are simply furious about, one of these being the crime of "Driving While Black."  The discrimination against blacks in the enforcement of law has been a bone of contention for him for years, and he is not one likely to back down in a confrontation of this type.  Whatever the legalities of the matter or the rights and wrongs of the matter, to be asked for identification by police who have entered his own home uninvited would not have been seen as a real option for him, but a serious slap in the face.  He made a statement that he would not show identification, and expressed some anger as I understand it, though I am not sure about the anger, and we was led off to custody.  I do not think he took a swing at anybody, for which we may all be grateful.

     Had it been me, I know it would have been going through my mind, though I hope I would have had the sense to suppress the impulse.  I can see and sympathize with both sides here.  I think that bringing President Obama into this is a sideshow.

     As far as I understand things, The President might well be honored to be Professor Gates' friend, as any President might be honored to be the friend of an esteemed scholar in a field of mutual interest.  As Gates may well feel honored in reverse.  I know lots of folks who might mention their friendship with the governor when the State cops pulled them over for speeding.  If both of them were white, does that make it racism? or a racist plot?

     Not unless they did it because you were both white, as opposed to simply being friends is the way I figure it, though heaven knows the logic is as full of holes as a doughnut.

     The way I figure it, Mike, you and I can afford to be paranoid about that sort of racism because we've never really been on the receiving end of it the way black folks have.  We catch what little scraps seem to be floating around, and think they're the real thing, like where they kill you for looking at somebody you "shouldn't be looking at" the wrong way.  Or where you don't get the transfusion you need because you're the wrong color and you die.

     You and I are just flirting with that sort of stuff.

     Even the anti-semitic stuff isn't as bad as it was thirty years ago.  Every now and again, you'll run across some, but not so often as to feel — at least most of the time and in this country — life is endangered.  

     White guys and being on the reverse end of racism is at best a pale reflection.  I thought I heard you say you were upset at grass roots organizing.

     The horror!  The Horror!

All my best, Bob Kaven
Balladeer
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4 posted 07-26-2009 08:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, Obama was wrong to malign the officer or the police department on national television the  way he did. As a former wearer of the badge, I can't even begin to tell you the damage it causes but I can assure you that right now there are police departments across the country very concerned about it. Neither Gates or Obama  could have picked a worse target than Crowley, who was trained in handling racial profiling and has taught classes in it to the officers in the Cambridge police department. If there is anyone in the world who would have used good judgement in this situation, it would have been Crowley.

But people who know Crowley were skeptical or outright dismissive of allegations of racism. A prominent defense lawyer, a neighbor of Crowley’s, his union, and fellow officers described him yesterday as a respected, and respectful, officer who performs his job well and has led his colleagues in diversity training.
“He’s evenhanded and, in the cases I’ve had with him, he’s been very much in control and very professional,’’ said Joseph W. Monahan III, a criminal defense lawyer in Cambridge and former Middlesex County prosecutor. Monahan has represented several defendants arrested by Crowley for domestic assaults and for drunken driving.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009 /07/23/officer_at_eye_of_storm_says_he_wont_apologize/

Obama could have diffused it at least a bit by aplogizing to the officer and department but he wouldn't even do that. Yes, he said he "misspoke" and his words were "misinterpreted", and he called Crowley to invite him to the White House for a beer...but no apology to either the officer or the department, which he claimed acted "stupidly". Apparently he is not a big enough man to do that.

I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station,” said Obama. “I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51574

An overreaction to pulling Gates out of his home Based on what he has heard? From who...Gates? Crowley claims, and witnesses support, that there was no pulling out at all... that Gates followed Crowley out of the house, ranting and throwing insults at the officer and would not stop. "There was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home and Professor Gates probably overreacted as well." You're a word man, Bob. Surely you can appreciate why Obama phrased his comment that way.  

I've heard that there are tapes of the incident and that the department is considering making them public....how I wish they would but I don't see it happening. There will be too much pressure to bear on  them not to. That's a shame.

The bottom line? A professor known for his temper and feiry rhetoric over racial discrimination overreacts to a police officer wanting identification after responding to a possible  burglary call and starts throwing insults at the officer and acting belligerently. That's about it. Is that something the president should weigh in on? Doesn't he have enough on his plate to not get involved in something like that? Would he have done it for Bill Gates, who I hear is also Obama's friend? No, why he did it was clearly racial and sends a warning to police departments that there is indeed a new sheriff in town and it would be good to be very careful...and even that may not be enough.


Bob K
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5 posted 07-26-2009 11:17 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




Dear Mike,

           I thought I tried to be evenhanded in my comments about the situation.  

     Your rhetorical question at the end is not so rhetorical to my ears.  I can't imagine something like that happening to Bill Gates, and I'm sort of surprised that you can.

     I do believe that the sergeant was acting as neutrally as a situation such as that will permit a man to act and still do his job.  He had a job to do, and it's easy to loose track that he was walking into a potentially dangerous situation.  He showed remarkable restraint.  All true.

     Black folks in the area know that this has not always been true, and will vary at times by neighborhood, officer  and perception of the situation by all parties.  Within my memory, I remember a kid  beaten to death inside  a paddy wagon.  Cambridge isn't all Harvard and tea parties, you know.  Everybody is on edge during situations like these.

     The notion of racial profiling by the President is a bit off the mark here, though.  I believe that you've taken an ugly incident and used it as a way to get in a gratuitous swing at the President.  And to make the white guys of the world sound downtrodden.  I commented on the notion of poor downtrodden white guys in my last posting, and I'd be interested in hearing your response.  You being oppressed by 10% of the population on the bottom of the economic pile, Mike?  The folks with twice the unemployment rate of white guys?  Apparently even Obama's Republican Lite style isn't reassuring enough for you; the man won't even give us an option of a National Health Plan with supplemental insurance for those who want to buy it, like a good Liberal would.

     Would Obama react the same way if it happened to Bill Gates?

     And which cop do you think would do that to Bill Gates, Mike?  Holy cow!

Yours in bewilderment,  Mr. Bob
Essorant
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6 posted 07-26-2009 11:44 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
...a police officer wanting identification after responding to a possible  burglary call...


But didn't he get identification from him and then proceed to arrest him anyway?  Wasn't that rather going over board?
 
    
Balladeer
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7 posted 07-26-2009 12:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I used Bill Gates because grinch seemed to think it was an acceptable comparison.


I am e-mailing you the official police report, Bob, that I received from an FBI friend. Read it and then make the call....

Denise
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8 posted 07-26-2009 01:03 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here is a link to the Cambridge Police Department where you can leave a message of support for Sgt. Crowley:
http://www.cambridgema.gov/cpd/contact/mailform.cfm?email_id=54&pv=Yes

I've also read the police report and I think the tapes of the police communications should be released as well.
Essorant
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9 posted 07-26-2009 02:47 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

What if it had been an older lady instead throwing a few flames out of her mouth?  Would she be arrested too?   Most likely not.  
Huan Yi
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10 posted 07-26-2009 04:15 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Wouldn't bet on that . . .
You don't know what's in the house
to be got when you turn your back.

.
Bob K
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11 posted 07-26-2009 08:40 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Essorant,

          If it were your house, would you want the police to walk away simply because they were being given a hard time?  Remember, it might be you they were asking for identification, it might not be?  The only information they had was that there were people there and that the owners were away, wasn't it?

     I think you could make a case either way, but that the police in this case have a fairly reasonable one.  If Gates had not been a problem before he refused to show I.D. — and in your own home, you should probably have that right, though I don't know the law on that matter — he became a problem when he started to yell at the officers, who then had a potentially assaultive man at their heels, a level of threat that few officers would like to leave behind them because of the possible danger to the public.

     This is one of the potential dangers of any potential intervention into a crisis, that the intervention will make it worse rather than better.  One needs, in intervening, to have some notion of what to do if the situation escalates.  This is the function of both training and policy.  The Sergeant was, I hear, responsible for actually being a trainer in some things, and I hear nothing of him being in violation of policy.  If he has been, that will change matters somewhat.

Yours, Bob K.

      
Huan Yi
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12 posted 07-27-2009 11:30 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


.


“None of us gets a pass once we evoke racial identity, not even the president of the United States, not even one of mixed racial heritage. Once we go down that road of racial self-aggrandizement, of seeing each other not by the content of our characters, but by the color of our skins, we invite nemesis — and there will be retribution. Because Barack Obama has consistently emphasized racial identity to further his own advantage, I fear others, both black and white, will be emboldened to follow his polarizing lead — in ways both novel and far more pernicious. We once trusted our uniquely qualified president to help lead us out of our racial morass, but so far he has only pushed us far deeper into it.”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRlNDM5YTIxMGUzMjdiM2I5MWFjZDAzZTM3Nzg5N2U=&w=MQ==


.
Bob K
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13 posted 07-27-2009 12:00 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     It appears to me that The National Review is attempting to put a literate spin on their acute discomfort with actually having another race take part in the National Dialogue at the presidential level.  On the plus side, their take says that somebody over there has read their Aristotle.  Yale survives.  On the negative side, it shows their difficulty in distinguishing somebody else's leadership from oppression.

     If the Yalies are this touchy about having a black president, I can only imagine what they'd have to say about Yalie directed Jim Crow laws, Yalie directed racial mingling laws, and being shipped over to the U.S. in slave ships and in chains.  Also being whipped and starved and worked to death.

     It seems like the folks at The National Review can simply feel the weight of all that oppression settling in on their shoulders after the President has been in power for less than eight months.  It sounds rather like an advanced case of Princess and the pea Syndrome to me, without the pea.  Sounds like the panic of being out of power.  

    
Essorant
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14 posted 07-27-2009 01:48 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Bob,

quote:
If it were your house, would you want the police to walk away simply because they were being given a hard time?  Remember, it might be you they were asking for identification, it might not be?


Yes, if they got the identification and proof needed as they apparently did in this case.  There are more important things for police officers to do than arrest someone for simply yelling and having a bad temper at his own house.  He wasn't a threat to anything but the police officer's ear-drum.  

Well, at least it turned out well after all if they get to have a beer with the president and become friends.  

Huan Yi
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15 posted 07-27-2009 03:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“…Obamacare will push more institutions to adopt racial preferences by giving preference to those that have, in the words of the Democrat House legislation, a "demonstrated record" of "training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds." And notice the term "underrepresented minorities." They may as well have put up a sign "Asians need not apply."

Other provisions in the Democrats' bill would provide for "maintaining, collecting and presenting federal data on race and ethnicity," in order to "facilitate and coordinate identification and monitoring … of health disparities to inform program and policy efforts to reduce such disparities." We've seen these efforts before in the context of employment and education. Their end result is always a form of bean-counting that leads to racial quotas — which is bad medicine and won't improve health care for anyone. “


http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/chavez072409.php3?printer_friendly
.
Balladeer
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16 posted 07-27-2009 04:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Essorant, I have no idea where your comment comes from. You completely ignored the report, the testimony of the officer and the witnesses at the scene and come up with your own scenario. Yes, police officers have better things to do. Yes, the professor showed his I.D., AFTER berating the officer, AFTER screaming racial prejudice, AFTER threatening the officer with repercussions and AFTER demanding that the officer show his own credentials, which he did. It could have ended right there. When the officer went to leave, Gates followed him, continuing to throw out insults and accusations. When the officer left the house enroute to his car, Gates CONTINUED to follow him with the same insulting rhetoric and, after several attempts by the officer to warn him to stop _ which he ignored - he was placed under arrest. Your comment makes it look like the officer just felt like arresting him for no reason when the fact is that he showed more restraint than many others would. Don't police officers have better things to do? Yes, I can assure you they do.

The point that you all don't seem to be able to grasp is that this was NOT a racial situation. The neighbor called the police because two men were doing something to a door to try to gain access to the house. She did NOT mention they were black because they had their backs to her. The police responded, which is what they are supposed to do. Where's the racial part? After the officer confronted the two, Gates claimed he lived there and the officer asked for identification. Is there a problem there? Should the officer have not asked for I.D.? Anyone, even a burglar, could say "I live here", no? It was a reasonable request. At THAT point it became a racial situation with Gates screaming racial prejudice and refusing to promptly show his credentials. Then it became a bigger racial situation with Obama weighing in and talking about how racial profiling is a national problem and we should consider this a teaching moment. Good God in Heaven!!!!!! Those two "good friends" made it a racial situation! I can't believe you, or anyone else, cannot recognize that...

The lady who originally called it in has had to hire a lawyer. She has received hate mail, people screaming at her, calling her a "race-baiter" and being toasted on the internet with insults and threats.....and she did not even report the possible intruders were black! We have a mob mentality going on  here and Gates, along with Obama's help, created it. You want to complain about the officer? Be my guest....
Huan Yi
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17 posted 07-27-2009 06:48 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Maybe the black cop should have
asked the questions, taken the abuse
and made the arrest . . . or would
that make him Uncle Tom?  Let's wait
for the tapes and transcripts.  Or is
no one interested in what really happened?

.
Bob K
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18 posted 07-27-2009 07:06 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Jewish_World_Review

     The fact that a quotation appears as a Jewish publication says nothing about its politics.  Christian publications run a political gamut as well.  The politics in this Jewish publication are proclaimed by the publisher to be conservative; list of folks who publish the more secular articles there support him.  They include Rush Limbaugh's brother, Laura Schlesinger (sp?), Bill O'Reilley and much of the regular right wing wrecking crew.

     This article, suggested by Huan Yi, is a rehash of the regular right wing thinking on the issue.

     Having done their best to get rid of as much advantage as might be given to minorities, especially blacks, over the last administration, the gusto with which they seek to maintain and consolidate their gains seems understandable  If not affirmative action, however, which action?  Otherwise, it seems that the country is welching on a debt that needs redress.  Nobody is asking majority Americans to put on chains or accept whippings here, though apparently many on the right have difficulty telling the difference in accepting giving a little extra for a while to those whom we've stolen a great deal for centuries.

     This seems somewhat blind.
Huan Yi
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19 posted 07-27-2009 08:16 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Otherwise, it seems that the country is welching on a debt that needs redress"


300,000 plus "white" Northern boys and men died
in bringing death to 250,000 plus "white" Southern
boys and men to begin with . . .
Seems to me debt paid.

.
Yoinn
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20 posted 07-27-2009 08:16 PM       View Profile for Yoinn   Email Yoinn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Yoinn's Home Page   View IP for Yoinn

I don't usually involve myself here in the Ally or discussion forum, choosing to focus on poetry but this one kinda sets heavy on me. Maybe I can bring a little bit of experience from the law enforcement field to the conversation. It wasn't police work but the training is comparable.
  When a officer first arrives on a scene he  takes certain steps that are governed by his training and experience. After making a quick note of his surroundings he:
1) Find the Danger if it's not apparent
2) Rate the danger and who is threatend
   rating danger involves certain questions. Are there Weapons? How many people are there, both victims and suspects and bystanders.
3) BRING THE DANGER UNDER CONTROL ( this includes people who are not in control of their emotions)
From what i have read the Cambridge officers did everything by the book and when the investagation turned up that there was no B&E going on. It should have ended there. The Harvard Professor CHOSE to not let it end there and the officers were forced to CONTROL the DANGER that was present. What danger can a middle aged professor pose you ask?...Plenty is my answer. Irate people who are not in control are unpredictable. If you have ever faced a irate crowd that was whipped up by one person screaming, and I have, you know the danger it poses. The professor was arrested because he would not control himself after being told by the officers many times to do so. It had nothing to do with RACE. And I agree with Balladeer on that.
    Was the presdent wrong with his stupid statement? yes he was. He's new and he will learn to hide his true feelings like Bush if you give him a little more time. ( hey at least he speaks in complete sentences. something we haven't had in the white house in many moons ) There are much worse things crawling around in the underbelly of the white house than racial profiling.
My 2cents and there won't be anymore lol

Just reworked my old poetry page. Check it out before geocities takes it down. Yoin

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


21 posted 07-28-2009 10:41 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Huan Yi,

                     The Emancipation Proclamation was signed late in the war. As far as Lincoln was concerned, slavery was not the issue of the civil war, as I understand it; keeping the union intact was, and he was willing to do whatever it took, pretty much to ensure that happened.  He was, as I understand it, against slavery, and took his opportunity when he could.  There was an enormous amount of public opinion in the north against the war being fought on the issue of slavery, the New York draft riots being but a single example of its expression.

     The efforts of the civil war were quickly smothered during the reconstruction, with the imposition of the Jim Crow laws. with lynchings and with similar expressions of anti-black rage on the part of the southern states.  The northern states were not very welcoming of those blacks that came north.  If the congress had thought that the Northern casualties were payment, I doubt that the whole "40 acres and a mule" reparations bill would have ever passed.  Not that it was ever actually acted upon.

     If the racism that had resulted in the actual physical bondage of the blacks in America had ended in 1865, you might even have something of a case.  There was blood on the streets in the 1960s, a hundred years later, when some of the freedoms that had apparently been won for blacks during the civil war were actually sought.  There were still folks with serious spelling issues wearing white sheets in Ohio when I was a kid.  The blacks all kept to their side of town, and I'm ashamed today to remember some of the ideas I thought and grew up with.

     We owed the Blacks then and we owe them today, not only what happened before 1865, but what's gone on since.  For the stolen families and education and wages and dignity and skills that they should have had an equal chance at earning with the same hard work that the rest of us put in for them.

     And of the dead of the civil war, I wonder how many of them were black?  And of the blacks who wanted to fight, how many were permitted to go?

     I think your answer here is too quick, and misses too many salient points, some of which I've tried to raise in response.

     Thoughts?

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


22 posted 07-29-2009 09:47 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

The police acted stupidly.

Gates acted stupidly.

Gee, how hard is that to figure out?

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


23 posted 07-29-2009 11:00 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree....how dare they respond to a burglary call? What were they thinking????????????
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


24 posted 07-29-2009 02:04 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


" The Emancipation Proclamation was signed late in the war."

After Antietam which was something of a
Union victory which his advisors said
was necessary not to make the proclamation
look like a loser's last cry.  The war then
went on for another two and a half
very bloody years.


"As far as Lincoln was concerned, slavery was not the issue of the civil war,"

Nonsense.  He was very mindful that if
he was too open he could lose a good
part of the Union army, including officers,
in the bargain.  It was his anti-slavery
position that caused the Southern states
to start seceding from the union shortly after
his election in the first place.

.

 
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