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Look out, Dr. Pepper!

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Balladeer
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0 posted 06-19-2009 08:39 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


House eyes new taxes as senators pare health bill
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090619/ap_on_go_co/us_health_overhaul_79

WASHINGTON Ė Early work on the ambitious health care overhaul the Obama administration is seeking has exposed the kinds of in-house fights that typify just how hard it will be to get meaningful legislation this year. Case in point: A proposal to help bankroll universal health coverage with a dime-a-can increase in the price of soft drinks.

House Democrats have lots of potential targets for higher taxes as they aim to expand health care coverage to reach the roughly 50 million that experts say are uninsured.

Also under consideration are higher alcohol taxes, increases to the Medicare payroll tax and a value-added tax, a sort of national sales tax, of up to 1.5 percent or more.



I was positive I heard Obama say no new taxes on the middle class. Chalk up another campaign lie to the growing list...

SEA
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1 posted 06-19-2009 10:48 AM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I think tax on soda isn't that bad. It's not like it's good for you.
Ron
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2 posted 06-19-2009 12:46 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Taxes on alcohol should be increased by a factor of at least ten. A hundred wouldn't be too much.

While we're at it, let's legalize a few other drugs and tax them, too.


Huan Yi
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3 posted 06-19-2009 03:43 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Why not a BMI tax?

.

Sunshine
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4 posted 06-19-2009 07:48 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
While we're at it, let's legalize a few other drugs and tax them, too.

Will that stop the influx of illegal drugs, Ron? I hope so.

I really do.

But for some reason, I don't think it will.

I want it to. I really do.

I mean, aren't there tax stamps already for marijuana? Yep. Are they ignored? Double yep.

I remember my ex going to the next state to get cigs cheaper than he could get them in the state we lived in - because there were no [or less] taxes in that state at the time we lived in that area.

What prevents certain states from skirting the laws? New laws? Of course! That must be it. A law is in effect. We don't like it. Pass a new law.

What needs to be done if we are going to set a new law in place is that we need 80% out of 100% of legitimate voters to concur. If we have less than that, than the vote fails, but can be brought forward again. Some people are on vacation, and haven't read their paper, or haven't turned on the local news. We had a reform going in my home town not long ago that most were against, in the beginning. It was brought up for vote a 2nd, then a 3rd time. On the 4th try, it passed. In this case, it was folks simply being tired of the city pushing this down our throat. I voted all four times, and I voted against it.

What was it? A new water park. In the middle of the midwest. They [the City] are telling us to monitor our water accordingly in keeping our gardens nice and our lawns pretty. Ok. But they're going to tax us on a water system that will evaporate more water than the city can supplement on a daily basis to the whole of the community on a good old 110 degree day?

Again, I voted against it on all counts. Pull out the sprinkler, do your lawn good, and give the kids a chill down time.

No...we have to be taxed, and then pay for the "luxury".

Poop.

Ringo
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5 posted 06-19-2009 07:56 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
Why not a BMI tax?

I can barely afford the taxes I pay, now, and you wish to tax me ever expanding backside???
And I thought you were a nice guy!!!!



For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Balladeer
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6 posted 06-19-2009 08:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Gotta have a fat tax for sure....so much for each pound overweight. A Twinkie tax should be a given.

let's just have the government determine everything that's bad for us and tax us accordingly...that should solve everything.
Sunshine
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7 posted 06-19-2009 08:27 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

What, no SPAM tax?

Essorant
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8 posted 06-20-2009 01:33 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think it makes sense.  Consider how many people buy soda.  A dime is not going to put out those people.  But a dime multiplied to the numbers and frequencies that so many people buy soda shall make a helpful heap of money for a good cause.

Mysteria
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9 posted 06-20-2009 01:54 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Well if it will slow down the Mountain Dew being consumed in the Appalachians by those folks I have to tell you I think I approve.  Then again, I don't drink pop.   

I am used to everything being taxed where I live so I guess that I just tend to shrug when a new one comes my way, as I figure there is a deficit in something I enjoy the use of, and sure enough, it usually is.  
Ringo
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10 posted 06-20-2009 01:44 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
But a dime multiplied to the numbers and frequencies that so many people buy soda shall make a helpful heap of money for a good cause.

Unfortunately, the "good cause" is going to be the spending of more money than the government takes in... you know, as well as the rest of us, that the administration is not going to take all of that money and use it to pay down the added debt that they incurred... they are going to do what EVERY administration has done: "Look, Ma... we gots more cash to play with... what can we spend it on, now????"

For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

Balladeer
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11 posted 06-20-2009 04:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, a  dime won't hurt those people. Neither would 20 cents, probably. Why not make it 20 cents then? And 20 on potato chips, 20 on popcorn, 20 on anything that contains sugar, 20 on anything labeled snack food, 20 on hamburgers, 20 on fries, 20 on and on and on....

There is no way that you are so naiive to believe that a dime on sodas will be the end result. It's just a beginner, a feeler to see if the public will stand for it, something to expand on.

...and what about that 1.5% bump on the value added tax, whatever that is?

Ringo is right. That "march of dimes" will just be more money for this administration to go through. Just think of how many trips to New York and broadway shows it will pay for.
Denise
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12 posted 06-20-2009 06:28 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

So much for not a single dime of a tax increase on those making less than $250,00 (or $200,000, or 150,000, depending on the particular pre-election speech).

"Let me make this perfectly CLEAR, those making less than ____ (whatever amount, fill in the blank) will not see ONE DIME in tax increases under my plan."

He put the lie to that less than 3 months after being sworn in with the tobacco and alcohol federal tax increase. And now he is looking for additional taxes on tobacco, alcohol, food and drink containing sugar and also salty foods. And now there's talk of taxing the health benefits of those who receive them from their employers, not to mention the Value Added Tax (a new Federal Sales Tax, estimates ranging from 1.5% to 3.5%) in addition to all the other taxes.

These poor excuses for human beings in Washington won't be happy until they have reduced us all to slaves of the government. But maybe that's a good thing. We might not mind so much when the bureaucrats deny us life saving care for one reason or another (age, weight, smoking history, etc.) under their nationalized health care plan (from which the elite in government will be exempt). Life won't seem much worth the living anyway when all we do is work and give the government most of our money, in exchange for a substandard quality of life.

And now Barney Frank is pushing to legalize marijuana. Maybe so that the government has something new to tax.

Grinch
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quote:
So much for not a single dime of a tax increase on those making less than $250,00


Obama said he wouldnít increase income tax (hence the emphasis on the income amount).

Unless you get paid in soft drinks how exactly is putting a tax on a consumable an increase in income tax?

.
Ron
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14 posted 06-20-2009 06:57 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
It's just a beginner, a feeler to see if the public will stand for it, something to expand on.

You talking about the Sixteenth Amendment of 1913, Mike?

quote:
He put the lie to that less than 3 months after being sworn in with the tobacco and alcohol federal tax increase.

One shouldn't confuse direct and indirect taxes, Denise. Direct taxes are limited to taxes on people and property. All other taxes are commonly referred to as indirect taxes, because they tax an event, rather than a person or property. You don't want to pay the tax? Avoid the event.

The best tax laws, I think, reward behaviors we want to encourage (giving to charity or trading in a gas guzzler) and punish behaviors we want to discourage (tobacco and drugs like alcohol).
Balladeer
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15 posted 06-20-2009 08:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, there you have it. The government should dictate what is bad for us and tax us accordingly....long live Big Brother.

Grinch, it's all semantics and word play. No, I am not paid in soda but I use what I am paid to buy soda, as well as the other things that Obama will raise taxes on. My income will be used to buy gas, too, although I am not paid in gas. It's all Obama double-talk. Translated, it says, "I won't tax your income. I'll just tax what you buy with that income." Either way, the consumer is left with less money than before. You  want to point out that Obama only said "income tax" in an effort to support him? Go ahead. What is important to the taxpayers is how much they will be left with in their pay after Obama's tax increases over what they were left with before. You need to do better than that....
Denise
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16 posted 06-20-2009 08:14 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Of course he was talking about income taxes, Grinch. That's all he talked about. He emphasized that as if that were the only thing that folks had to be concerned about. I knew what was coming, though (just as Mr. Transparency knew what he was planning), even if those with stars in their eyes didn't. If something exists, a Democrat will try to find a way to tax it, especially socialist, progressive Democrats, who think they know how to make better use of your money than you do.

True Ron, but there are only so many things that you can try to avoid purchasing in order to retain a little more of your money, especially if that cap and trade legislation gets passed, not to mention the coming inflation. Then everything we buy will cost more. And in any event, our quality of life goes down. If we don't buy something that we always did before we feel deprived, or if we continue to buy some thngs that we always did before, we have less money, can't buy other things that we always bought before and feel deprived. And all this angst so that corrupt politicians can have more money to throw away in a quest for redistribution of wealth.

No matter the form of tax, they are taking more of our money and diminishing our quality of life, to one degree or another.

During the primaries, Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee were bashed for their Federal Sales Tax plans. Those in power seem to love the idea now. Only Paul and Huckabee wanted to repeal the income tax first and then institute a sales tax instead. The Democrats now want both. Imagine that.
Local Rebel
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17 posted 06-20-2009 11:07 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

The failure here is to do the math.

What is the cost of doing nothing?

How much is saved by doing something?

If doing something requires that I pay 10 cents more for a soda so that I can save a dollar in health care costs -- then I haven't seen a tax 'increase'.

The current health-care system -- the one that puts an insurance company accountant between me and my doctor -- costs premiums that are shared in most cases by employers and employees.  If those costs decrease then that is not a tax 'increase' -- it is a premium decrease.
Ron
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18 posted 06-20-2009 11:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Well, there you have it. The government should dictate what is bad for us and tax us accordingly....long live Big Brother.

Ain't what I said. Nor does it follow from what I said or the examples I gave.

Let's reword your statement slightly, Mike.

The government should dictate what is bad for society and tax us accordingly. Promoting the good of society, after all, is THE principle role of government, don't you think?


Denise
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19 posted 06-21-2009 02:08 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't recall the government ever doing anything with the result being money saved, LR. They can hype that as their aim, and can even say that is the result, but it's just never realized. For every dollar they say they "save" us somewhere, they just turn around and spend ten somewhere else, and then say they have to raise taxes again.

Our government should not dictate anything, Ron. And I think that in promoting the general welfare, it must find a way to do so that doesn't negate its responsibility to protect our liberty. We are not slaves, subjects or children. We are sovereign citizens, capable of making our own decisions and living with the natural consequences, whatever they may be.
Ron
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20 posted 06-21-2009 03:03 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Our government should not dictate anything, Ron.

Right. You mean it shouldn't pass any laws?

Honestly, I personally wish it would dictate a lot less than it does, Denise. I'm not, however, quite ready for anarchy. I don't think you are, either.

quote:
We are sovereign citizens, capable of making our own decisions and living with the natural consequences, whatever they may be.

I absolutely agree, Denise.

The problem is that I often have to live with those consequences, too, because most of those sovereign citizens start yelling for lots of government assistance as soon as they screw up their lives badly enough. Worse than what I pay out of my pocket, though, is the physical danger to life and limb every time a drunk crawls behind the wheel of a car or a druggie takes a few drive-by shots at a neighbor.

People who want absolute liberty need to move out of MY society. 'Cause their liberty is infringing on mine.
Grinch
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21 posted 06-21-2009 06:05 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Grinch, it's all semantics and word play.


I agree Mike but you still insist on doing it.



quote:
You  want to point out that Obama only said "income tax" in an effort to support him?


If you mean that I want to point out the truth in an effort to show that your allegation that he lied with regard to raising taxes holds no water then yes. He was talking about income tax, If heíd said ďnobody will pay more tax of any kindĒ youíd have been right to call him a liar and heíd have been an ignoramus, he didnít, you arenít and he isnít.

quote:
You need to do better than that


Why?

You and Denise have already admitted that Obama was talking about not raising income tax. If thatís the case he didnít lie and your allegation that he did is obviously incorrect. Thatís all I wanted to point out Ė job done as far as Iím concerned.

Balladeer
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22 posted 06-21-2009 08:49 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Sounds good to me, grinch. If you are content with your explanation, then so am I because you have shown how far one will go to excuse Obama's actions, whatever they may be. The readers of this thread, few as they may be, will judge whose assessment is more accurate in their view.
Denise
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23 posted 06-21-2009 09:13 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'm not talking about anarchy, Ron. I'm talking about the liberty to make legal choices in our lives without interference and extortion by political hacks who want to fund their pet projects at our expense thereby diminishing our standard of living.
Grinch
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24 posted 06-21-2009 10:05 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
because you have shown how far one will go to excuse Obama's actions


What actions Mike? It canít be his lying about tax increases Ė weíve already established you made all that up.

Do you mean putting a dime a can tax on soft drinks? I think itís a good idea, you have to raise tax from somewhere so taxing unhealthy consumables seems as good a way as any to me. Then again I havenít heard any alternative suggestions, what do you suggest?


.
 
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