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Passions in Poetry

Look out, Dr. Pepper!

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Denise
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25 posted 06-21-2009 10:53 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

“You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet”

by Bob Pappas

As one who was exposed to totalitarian government at an early age, who observed up close and personal the ravages of Hitler’s socialism throughout Europe, who has both relatives and friends who escaped the clutches of the USSR’s Stalin and Romania’s Ceauºescu, I developed an early and abiding aversion, no, antipathy toward totalitarian socialism/communism. Incidentally, excessive government control in whatever its form, whether it is excessive taxes, which Obama is cooking up, or laws that restrict what one can do with one’s private property, which Obama is cooking up, is totalitarian socialism/communism.
http://gulf1.typepad.com/gulf1cpappas/2009/05/index.html


Here's a suggestion, Grinch: Have the government stop spending what it doesn't have and can't afford.

Balladeer
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26 posted 06-21-2009 10:56 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What actions? Causing people, even middle class, to wind up with less money under him by raising the prices on the products they buy, while claiming that he is not cutting their taxes because it is not an "income" tax raise. However the money goes out of my pocket, be it directly from my income or from tax increases on the products I buy, the bottom line is that I wind up with less, based on his decisions.

What should he do? Stop spending money he doesn't have and stop wasting money he does spend. Go after the government excesses instead of Coke. Stop his ridiculous pork projects instead of Sprite. Stop funneling millions to his pals at Acorn. There are billions being wasted by the government. Give some thought to eliminating that, instead. He would save a lot more money by doing that than by going after the pause that refreshes. Take some of that stimulus money - you know, that wonderful thing that had to be passed immediately to save the United States from disaster, that thing which Obama claimed would cut unemployment to no more than 8% by summer with it's shovel-ready jobs, that thing in which Obama has used only 5% of since it's passage? No, he prefers to just go after products use instead, while proclaiming (with your help) he is not raising their taxes.

What should he do? Stop acting like a kid in the candy store with unlimited pockets. Stop plunging deeper into the record deficit he has orchestrated. Stop being a community organizer and start being a president.
Denise
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27 posted 06-21-2009 11:07 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Now that would be refreshing!
Essorant
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28 posted 06-21-2009 11:52 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

This looks like just another attempt to try to make Obama and his administration look harsh and unruly by trying to magnify something unextreme into looking as if it is extreme.  
Denise
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29 posted 06-21-2009 12:01 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

According to this study, perhaps those in power should try to find a way to tax the skinny folks in our society.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.c7aaeb7940626693fa418a1eab2291f6.81&show_article=1


There is nothing that this administration and Congress are currently doing that could be considered unextreme, at least by American standards, Ess. They are attempting to turn our country upside down.

Grinch
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30 posted 06-21-2009 12:59 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Here's a suggestion, Grinch: Have the government stop spending what it doesn't have and can't afford.


The Government.

Thank you. For a minute there with Mike ranting on about Obama doing this and Obama doing that I got the distinct impression that everyone had forgotten that Obama can’t unilaterally do anything without the backing of the people via the elected government.



quote:
Have the government stop spending what it doesn't have and can't afford


That would have been a fine idea if it had been instigated before the recent financial collapse. Successive governments have ignored the fact that, on paper, your country has been bankrupt for years due to excessive spending. Unfortunately in the midst of a recession it’s not such a fine idea. Cutting government spending at a time when only the government is spending is a recipe for disaster. The downward spiral of mass unemployment leading to subsequent consumer spending reductions and company failures that would inevitably follow would cause the American economy to implode.

I’m all for reducing government spending but not at a time when it would be tantamount to economic suicide.

.
Ron
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31 posted 06-21-2009 01:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

There's a lot I don't like about this administration. A whole lot. Taxing non-essential consumables probably isn't going to be anywhere near the top of the list, though.

At least we haven't started any new wars lately? Think how much money we're saving on that alone!
Huan Yi
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32 posted 06-21-2009 02:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Would diet soft drinks
with zero calories be included?
If yes, why?

.

Denise
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33 posted 06-21-2009 03:20 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

By government I meant Obama and his majority in Congress who are running roughshod over our economy, exercising no restraint or common sense and only deepening our deficits, tripling in 4 months the deficit for which they are still bashing Bush. I think cutting off all funds to ACORN would be a start back toward fiscal sanity that shouldn't add much to the unemployment lines.

I think his policies will endanger more than enjoyment of some non-essentials, Ron. Some folks won't be able to afford home heating oil this coming winter, especially if cap and trade goes through, or if inflation is more severe than anticipated. Use of airconditioning may also have to be severely restricted if electicity prices go through the roof. They are both essentials for me. I still remember freezing and sweating and sitting in long rationed gas lines under Jimmy Carter. I can't do that again. I don't have the same stamina as I did when I was in my twenties.

Probably John, since artificial sweeteners aren't supposed to be good for you either.

Huan Yi
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34 posted 06-21-2009 04:31 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"aren't supposed to be good for you either."


By that logic, what is not subject?
Breathing after all adds to global warming . . .

And an estate tax taxes you for being dead.

.
Local Rebel
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35 posted 06-21-2009 05:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

By that logic, what is not subject?
Breathing after all adds to global warming . . .

And an estate tax taxes you for being dead.



Breathing merely returns carbon-dioxide to the atmosphere that was there to begin with -- so, no -- it doesn't contribute to climate change... it is the dredging up of hydrocarbons in the form of petroleum and coal and the burning of same that increases the carbon-dioxide level of the air -- from sources of carbon that have long been sequestered.

And, estate taxes don't tax you for being dead -- they tax your heirs for (unearned)income.
Huan Yi
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36 posted 06-21-2009 05:19 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"And, estate taxes don't tax you for being dead -- they tax your heirs for (unearned)income. "


Which would not happen if you weren't   . . .


.




Balladeer
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37 posted 06-21-2009 07:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

taxing your heirs for unearned income....love it. I must suppose the government earned it more than the family who inherits. Makes me wonder how all those women get divorce settlements and alimony from all of that (unearned) money their ex-husbands made.
Local Rebel
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38 posted 06-21-2009 08:37 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Mike, when you're in a hole -- stop digging.  

John, of course one's benefactor has to be dead in order to inherit -- but then of course the estate tax only kicks in at over 3 million dollars -- so it never really effects most people -- and the ones who were effected by it just put the money into trusts to keep from paying it.  So, it was mostly an irrelevant football that sounded real good during elections...

Death Tax --  no!  no!

The humanity.
Balladeer
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39 posted 06-21-2009 08:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

But I have to keep digging because it can get really deep in here at times
Ron
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40 posted 06-21-2009 10:54 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

A death tax actually makes a lot of sense. Under a pure laissez faire system of capitalism, where assets pass through the generations unimpeded, sooner or later one man would end up owning everything there was to own.
sandgrain
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41 posted 06-21-2009 11:38 PM       View Profile for sandgrain   Email sandgrain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sandgrain

If government can tell big corporations their CEOs can no longer get mega millions, why can't they stop drug manufacturers from charging outrageous prices here, while charging other countries much less?

Very little is said about the horrendous amount of drugs sold to Mexico that come back here in illegal use.

Imagine how reformed healthcare would be if the drug company charges were curtailed and they had to quit advertising.

Rae
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42 posted 06-22-2009 06:29 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

I don't recall the government ever doing anything with the result being money saved, LR. They can hype that as their aim, and can even say that is the result, but it's just never realized. For every dollar they say they "save" us somewhere, they just turn around and spend ten somewhere else, and then say they have to raise taxes again.



Hmmm...

the Postal Service
Amtrak
TVA
oh..
And... of course
Medicare.

I could go on -- but it really wouldn't matter.
Denise
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43 posted 06-22-2009 07:42 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What's your point, L.R.? These things have saved us money?
Local Rebel
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44 posted 06-22-2009 03:01 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Can you think of a cheaper way to send a letter Denise?

Do the commuters who rely on Amtrak every day have a better alternative?  Obviously not -- or else they would use it.

Would the South have been electrified without the TVA?  Nope.  It was too cost prohibitive for private enterprise due to the sparse population.  But -- it not only saved money but it opened the door to development.

Medicare delivers benefits to it's insured at far under the rate of private insurance cost structures --

So, yep.  That's what I'm saying.

And while we're talking about paving the way to progress -- let's not leave out the Federal Highway system -- you know -- that huge subsidy that enabled the automobile industry (and every other industry) to flourish int the 20th Century.

I have occasionally used the 80/90 toll road in Indiana -- the one that Republican Governor Mitch Daniels decided to privatize and lease out to a foreign concern for some quick cash -- since going private a few years ago the tolls have almost doubled.

Is there waste fraud and abuse in government? You bet -- but it's still one of the most cost-effective tools around.
Denise
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45 posted 06-22-2009 07:30 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

None of it saves us money, L.R. It all comes out of our pockets.
Local Rebel
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46 posted 06-22-2009 09:33 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

By your standard then Denise -- we can phrase your premise a little differently --

Commerce doesn't save us any money -- it comes out of our pockets.

Mail doesn't save us any money -- it comes out of our pockets -- unless we need to send a letter or a parcel from point A to point B.  In which case we can either take it there ourselves at our own expense -- or we can buy a stamp -- it saves us money.

Highways don't save us money -- they come out of our pockets -- unless we need to move from point A to point B -- in which case we can walk at the expense of the time we could have been making money instead of walking -- or we can travel over paved roads -- they save us money.

Unless you plan on a subsistence living off of the land with no trade whatsoever -- then in order to get the things you need and want -- you're going to have to spend some money -- in which case there are some economies of scope and/or scale that are simply best suited to government and some services that simply don't work in private hands.  It not only saves us money -- it enriches us.
Denise
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47 posted 06-22-2009 10:45 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Of course we have to spend money to do what needs to be done. My point is that government takeovers and subsidizing doesn't save us money. It always costs us in the end, much more than they said it would in the beginning. Subsidizing Amtrak was supposed to be a temporary situation, for instance. We're still subsidizing it.  
rwood
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48 posted 06-23-2009 08:26 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I'm not surprised. We started out with Tea and now we're back 'round to it.

I still feel the parties are equally defunct when it comes to proper funding and spending.

The dems tax everything under the sun and will probably figure out a way to extra-tax the sunlight~

And the reps write blank checks in the dark without a clue who they hand them to.

We need a "Pale Rider."

or maybe Batman. lol

Bob K
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49 posted 06-23-2009 10:19 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Which are the situations and conditions you think the government should get out of, specifically.  

     I think the words "all", 'every," "no," "none" and the like might be avoided if at all possible for the sake of clarity, though that's a suggestion.

     I find discussions of this sort get very general very quickly, as I'm afraid we may be seeing here.  This will still happen if we stay specific, I'm afraid, be we may be able to to continue longer and learn more from each other for a greater length of time before we all begin to look like cartoon images of Bill the Cat.  

     Maybe then we can press RESET and start again — a suggestion, at least.

     Also a proposition as a kick off place for discussion, should people find it interesting.


Pro and Con:
    [bold] The marketplace is a useful regulator, but should not be the sole regulator of an economy.  The marketplace as regulator may be nothing more than a way of talking about 19th Century Social Darwinism as though it weren't   a discredited way of looking at the world.
[/bold]
 
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