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Confused

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Tim
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0 posted 04-08-2009 08:38 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I understand that liberal politicians are all intellectuals, including President Obabama.
I also understand that Republican politicians are dimwitted, especially President Bush.
I even understand that since I come from a red state (Kansas) and am generally considered to be a moderate Republican that voted for President Bush, I am an ignorant, right-wing, evangelical neocon.

The question I have is why I always get the impression that liberals are trying to test my credulity?

When President Obama bowed to the Saudi King, the mainstream media ignored the event and instead focussed on Mrs. Obama touching the Queen.

If anything was said, it was that the President did not bow, he was picking something off the floor.

Give me a break.

I will give the President the fact than since he had a father of the Muslim faith and spent a significant portion of his childhood in Indonesia, he instinctively bowed, much as an excommunicated cradle Catholic might instinctively kneel before the Pope.  
No, I am not saying he is Muslim, but subconsciously, because of his upbringing, he acted as he had been taught in his childhood.
The only other logical reason is he did so on purpose, which to me shows a certain lack of intellect.

Politics is as much perception as reality.  The Arab world is certainly aware the President bowed to the Saudi King and takes it as a sign of subservience.  Any politician would be aware of that result.

I can shrug it off as a beginner's faux pas and still trying to get one's feet under themself, although a pretty stupid one.

Now, after the story didn't die, and even a liberal commentator has made mention of the bow, the White House comes out and says the bow did not take place.  Give me a break and don't insult what little intelligence I have as a red-stater.

Euphamism may well have to be redefined as Obamaism.  We don't have the war on terror anymore or terrorists.  And now we have the President making a mistake and instead of saying, "my bad," that it never took place.

We are beyond testing credulity and now are
insulting my limited intelligence.  Every day I am more amazed.

[This message has been edited by Tim (04-08-2009 10:59 PM).]

serenity blaze
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1 posted 04-08-2009 09:11 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I dunno Tim.

I doubt I would have bowed...but maybe he was trying to follow protocol?

<--that's as close as I get.



But perhaps he was in a no-win situation--sorta like G.W. serving hotdogs to Muslim leaders? *helpless shrug*

The best intentions, yanno.

I just dunno...
Balladeer
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2 posted 04-08-2009 11:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Tim, Democrats denying what is on video is nothing new. The press covering their back is nothing new, either...so what surprises you? That they think everyone is stupid? That shouldn't surprise you, either.
Stephanos
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3 posted 04-08-2009 11:40 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

hardly a political liberal myself, I think trying to make an issue of Obama bowing is trivial.  To paraphrase Karen, offering a ham sandwich to an Orthodox Jew can be done with complete sincerity, just be more Kosher next time and don't do it again.


Stephen
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4 posted 04-08-2009 11:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Whether the bow is trivial or not, the white house saying it didn't happen if it is actually on video as happening is not trivial...it is a symptom of a much deeper illness.
serenity blaze
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5 posted 04-08-2009 11:56 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Um..

can I have an AP reference on any/all of the above?

(Support the Associated Press)

Denise
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6 posted 04-09-2009 12:30 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Our eyes must have been lying to us, Tim. I can think of no other explanation. Unless it's those crazy. right-wing, red state, tin-foil hat wearing, clinging to their guns and religion, typical white folk conspiracy nuts, brainwashing us into seeing things that didn't actually happen. That has to be the answer. Obama would certainly never lie, obfuscate or equivocate!
  
Obama: Dang those TV crews for having the audacity to film me in a compromising position. You said you had everything under control, Rham. Give me a smoke. And dang those miscreants who uploaded it to the internet for everyone to see, confusing the masses with their misrepresentations of something that never even happened. I never bowed to anyone! Dang those arrogant, dismissive, divisive, derisive descendents of Indian-killing, slave-owning revolutionary ingrates!

I declare from now on that the uncensored use of the internet is a security risk to me..er, I mean to the country. Take care of it, Rham. Just use that blueprint China gave us last month. Yeah, that's it over there that I scribbled on the back of that, what is that piece of paper called again? Oh yeah, the Constitution, yeah, you got it. And you know how I like to keep score (wink wink) (har har) (cough cough), give me a smoke, just ask those Blue Dog Democrats who buckled under my persuasive Chicago charm the other day (ha ha). That was priceless! Unlike my budget, (ha ha). So start taking names and addresses, you know, like we did at AIG. That was a good test drive, but it's high time we put those National Security kids to work too. They don't think they're getting health care and college for free, do they?

serenity blaze
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7 posted 04-09-2009 12:44 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Denise?

Is that you?

I've never known you to be deliberately offensive...but let me adjust the atennae on my cone shaped tin foil hat and see if I am getting total clearance on that.

*meep*

nope, that's not quite it...

I am kidding.

I hope you are too.   ?

c'mon...he can't be that scary...can he?

I'm back to ask..what IS the proper protocol of two heads of state greeting one another?

anybody know?
serenity blaze
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8 posted 04-09-2009 04:27 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I heart BobK.

You understand that everything that G.W.Bush did is now total complicity with Obama?

(It's all the 'pubs have to go on... )

It doesn't matter that Obama inherited a job from Hell.

(I love the fact that he seldom brings that up in conversation.)

But then, he hasn't been answering my texts lately...y'think he's like...busy?

*guffaw*
Tim
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9 posted 04-09-2009 08:35 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Why deny something that is trivial?  Especially when it so obviously happened?

As I indicated, politics is largely a matter of perception.

I think one ought to be concerned how the North Koreans, Iranians, and radical Muslims perceive our President.

I hope my perceptions of President Obama are in error, because if not, we are facing some rough inflationary times ahead and difficult times internationally.  
Bob K
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10 posted 04-09-2009 11:16 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     There may be some question of the nature of the tough times ahead, Tim.  I doubt that there's much question that they will come, economic or geopolitical or both.  Whether The President bows or holds hands isn't going to make any difference.  I think it has more to do with OPEC, with whether we do anything to fund alternate power resources and get away from oil and whether we can control our own domestic costs.  Not to mention about half a dozen other issues.

     I think it's important to get our civil liberties back in shape, get the balance of powers back in shape, and get the bill of rights back in place.  I think these are valid Republican issues as much as they are valid Democratic issues.  I'm not certain that there's much disagreement between Americans about this, although the rhetoric seems divisive.
Bob K
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11 posted 04-09-2009 11:32 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     There may be some question of the nature of the tough times ahead, Tim.  I doubt that there's much question that they will come, economic or geopolitical or both.  Whether The President bows or holds hands isn't going to make any difference.  I think it has more to do with OPEC, with whether we do anything to fund alternate power resources and get away from oil and whether we can control our own domestic costs.  Not to mention about half a dozen other issues.

     I think it's important to get our civil liberties back in shape, get the balance of powers back in shape, and get the bill of rights back in place.  I think these are valid Republican issues as much as they are valid Democratic issues.  I'm not certain that there's much disagreement between Americans about this, although the rhetoric seems divisive.

     I agree that the thing is trivial.  I saw stills.  I haven't been keeping up with the reporting, so I don't know the facts.  Evidently there are folks around who don't think it's trivial and who are happy to occupy themselves with this sort of stuff.  At least they seem to have found the depth of material that engages them, and they seem to feel that the way a leader deals with this sort of stuff determines whether countries rise and fall.  Myself, I'd rather look at economic and geopolitical policy

[This message has been edited by Ron (04-09-2009 11:53 AM).]

Denise
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12 posted 04-09-2009 11:49 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hey Karen, from what I have read, the protocol between heads of state is a handshake. Only subjects of a monarch are to bow or curtsy to them.

Was I offensive? Offensive to whom, and which parts? I thought I was just doing a little political satire, and quite a bit of it in Obama's own words!
Tim
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13 posted 04-09-2009 01:39 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I agree, the actions of this administration as far as amassing power in the executive branch ought to be of grave concern for Republicans and Democrats alike.

The coming inflation ought to concern everyone and Carter II diplomacy ought to at least cause minimal thought on both sides of the political spectrum as to what awaits us on the horizon.
Balladeer
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14 posted 04-09-2009 02:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Denise, your political satire is brilliant
Denise
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15 posted 04-09-2009 02:37 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks, Mike!
Bob K
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16 posted 04-09-2009 06:31 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike and Denise,

                            You might find this link of passing interest:
http://my.opera.com/lounge/forums/topic.dml?id=69951

Sincerely,

Bob Kaven
Denise
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17 posted 04-09-2009 06:41 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I guess I'll have to settle for sarcasm then, Bob!
Balladeer
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18 posted 04-09-2009 09:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Very passing, Bob. Actually, Don Rickles was always a personal hero of mine. The fact that he was so famous and made millions at his craft means others felt the same way
Sunshine
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19 posted 04-09-2009 10:56 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Tim,

I'm as confused as you are. I get emails, right and left, figuratively and politically speaking, that show pictures and photos and videos of various connections, reconnections, interconnections and sub-leased connections.

Some show for, against, leaning, leaving...

In like for a friend, I would say, leave a link?

But on the other hand, maybe you can't choose which link?



I'm really trying to give Our President a chance...

and right now, I'll really try more, as I'm one of the chosen for the new changes.

You see, my position was recently downsized as was another six [as of the moment] in my office, in the education category.

Do you think the legal arena will take me back?

Better question: do I want to go into that arena, again?

Tim
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20 posted 04-09-2009 11:25 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Sunshine,

Nothing wrong in being confused, in fact it is the ones who are not confused you have to be concerned about.  Sometimes you have to ignore links and rely on what is in your own harddrive.

I am personally one of those who thinks government works best when no one party or branch of government has the power to do things without a few roadblocks, deadends, and compromises thrown in their way.  You need to question whoever is in power or you are looking for some unfortunate results.

You will be an asset to whatever field you choose, just choose the one that allows to go home each night wanting to go back the next day.
Bob K
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21 posted 04-10-2009 01:53 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I like what Tim just said.  Sign me up for that.
moonbeam
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22 posted 04-10-2009 04:58 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I'm confused too Tim.  You start out by quite rightly ridiculing a few silly stereotypes, but then immediately go on to demonstrate how such stereotyping is fuelled.  

Good grief, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things whether and why he bowed?  Why shouldn't the spontaneous and generous gesture of Michelle take precedence over mere protocol?  He did it subconsciously because he's a Muslim!?

He did it no doubt because he is a polite person.

And what really bothers me is all the fuss that certain sections of the US have made about this.  

This concern about showing subservience.  Gawd almighty, what's wrong with a bit of humility?  Have you no idea how much damage the US does to itself by its perceived determination not ever to be wrong or humble?  Have you any idea how much stronger and more generous your country looks when its leader does shows some humility and understanding of other cultures?  It's precisely when a country (or person) resorts to the "I'm never wrong" scenario that it betrays its weakness.  

The fact is that the US is heading the same way as all empires, as we in the UK did a century ago:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0408/p09s01-coop.html

Obama knows perfectly well that America's superpower status is waning fast, and he is a wise enough and big enough person, to be able to lead you out of superiority into parity, or yes, even subservience, without losing more than you need to.  Just be very thankful you have him as your leader at what will no doubt be one of the most challenging times so far in your short history.
Balladeer
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23 posted 04-10-2009 08:36 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Good grief, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things whether and why he bowed?  

Actually, moonbeam, it probably doesn't matter. The fact that the white house would literally backtrack and lie about it happening does. First, if it is no big deal, why would they feel thay have to do that? Second, why would they put themselves in a position to show everyone they ARE liars, trying to cover up, over such a non-issue? Were they too dumb or too rushed to do damage control to remember it was all on tape? None of that shows a lot of intelligence from people who claim to be able to run banks, car dealerships and universal health care. It's more like Hillary claiming to be under fire leaving the helicopter, forgetting that it was all on tape showing the opposite, causing her to claim she was "confused" or Gore claiming to meet with the Mayor of Miami over school issues, forgetting that he really hadn't until the Mayor stated it or Kerry recounting that "one night he would never forget for the rest of his life", until records showed he was in a different country at the time, which caused him to claim he was "confused".  Their actions are pure democratic knee-jerking and that is something that DOES matter.

Just be very thankful you have him as your leader at what will no doubt be one of the most challenging times so far in your short history.

The time is much more challenging BECAUSE we have him as our leader.....history will be the final judge on that.

Actuall, I could care less about "superpower status". Let it wane, disappear or take a hike, for all I care. I'm not concerned about "the sun never setting" on the American empire. I would actually prefer to let the rest of the world go it's own way and just concentrate on our own country. Of course, all of the countries who rely on our handouts, charity and support may not want to go along with that. They would prefer to give us the finger with one hand and have the other hand out, palm up.
Midnitesun
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24 posted 04-10-2009 08:55 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

There is a huge difference between gestures of SUBSERVIENCE and RESPECT.
Protocol issues are not always so clear cut as you might imagine. I made the same error when in the ME years ago, offering a 'curtsy' bow to royalty, partly because everyone else was doing it, even the Swiss and Dutch friends I was traveling with.
There are so many REAL issues out there, it surprises me how many people focus on nits.
 
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