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Why?

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Denise
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0 posted 04-04-2009 11:14 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Why would the leader of the free world bow to a tyrant, the king of Saudi Arabia? If he is just in awe of royalty, why did a handshake suffice for the Queen of England? And why did this not warrant even a mention in the MSM?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=93696
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1 posted 04-04-2009 11:55 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Bow, handshake, nod, wink or high-five - who cares - as long as he doesnít poke them in the eye, head-butt them or punch them to the ground any greeting is fine by me.

I think this was a case of overcorrection.

After meeting the queen he was probably politely told that the correct greeting when meeting royalty was to bow so the next royal he met got the full Monty. A minor deviation from protocol and etiquette if you ask me, like using the wrong fork for the fish course - hardly an international incident.

Denise
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2 posted 04-04-2009 12:51 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

My understanding from what I have read, Grinch, is that the protocol for greeting royalty, unless you are a subject of that monarch, is a handshake. Only subjects bow or curtsy.
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3 posted 04-04-2009 01:36 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Protocol schmotocol.

This is the 21st century not the 16th, nobodyís going to invade Prussia or Sudan because some bloke bowed when he shouldíve shook hands.

The old protocols donít mean that much today, getting them a bit wrong isnít the end of the world, or a matter of life and death like it once was and I think thatís a good thing.

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4 posted 04-04-2009 02:36 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think it may have to do with the weight of the kind of culture or simply how ceremonious the actual moment was.  If it was a looser moment with the queen, why would you expect that he should be as strict about his manner of greeting, as he was before the king of Saudia Arabia, where perhaps it was a bit more ceremonious at the moment?  In any case, it is not right to imply some kind of disrespect to one just because the greeting wasn't the same as with the other.  Both were expressions of grace and respect.

Denise
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5 posted 04-04-2009 03:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I never said it was a matter of life and death or that invasion of another country might possibly result, Grinch. And the protocols, though they may be old, are still relevant in the 21st Century, as can be ascertained from their respective websites.  

It was just prior to a meeting of the G20, Ess, not a ceremonial event. No other head of state in attendance bowed to any other head of state.
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6 posted 04-04-2009 04:21 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Iím not sure what point youíre trying to make Denise.

Am I missing something?

.
Denise
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7 posted 04-04-2009 05:45 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I simply would like to know why he did it.
Grinch
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8 posted 04-04-2009 06:01 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Sorry Denise, I canít help you there, the best I can offer is a guess.

Ringo
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9 posted 04-04-2009 06:03 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

This is going to cause quite the storm amongst the middle American and Concervative types, is it not?
You know... those of us who hopelessly cling to our guns and religion?

Of course, I am not going to be the one to call him all of the names and say things like calling him worthless, because then people on here who feel freedom of speech is good only for those who use their speech will get off the topic and attack me.
So, whatever you feel is what you wanbt to say, I probably agree.

  

But this one goes to eleven...
http://www.hubpages.com/profile/RingoShort

Sunshine
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10 posted 04-04-2009 06:50 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Denise, hon, he's young. He's inexperienced. He's...our President.

Right now, I'm even more hapless at explaining the  experience of his presidency.

Balladeer
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11 posted 04-04-2009 07:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree with the balderdash part of it, although it seems that, in royal and high-classed circles, it is still regarded as fairly important, unbelieveable as it may sound. I was reading an article of why some members of the "upper class" in England were loathe to accept Diana as anything other than a commoner because of certain words she used, which EVERYONE who fits into the high society class knows that such things are clear no-no's. The article gave examples of the 'miscues' and I remember reading them and saying "huh? What's the big deal??" I guess for some folks it still is...
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12 posted 04-04-2009 07:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

In the book I want to write someday, entitled, "Everything you need to know has Been on Star Trek", there was an episode where captain Picard was chosen to arbitrate peace with a planet, which had been at war for centuries. Other mediators had tried before but failed because the rulers of the planet had one primary rule - the arbitrator had to greet them formerly in their native tongue without making an error. Since their language was very difficult to pronounce, everyone who tried had failed. Jean Luc did it successfully and they welcomed him to the planet to negotiate peace. One sound, one syllable incorrectly spoken would have resulted in disapproval.

Star Trek....the voice of our time!!!
Denise
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13 posted 04-04-2009 11:38 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'll refrain from name calling Ringo, but I must admit my tongue hurts from biting it so much!  

I wish I could believe that it was due to his lack of experience, Karilea. But I tend to think he is a shrewd politician who knows exactly what he is doing at all times.

Balderdash! That's always been one of my favorite expressions, Michael! All I can say is "beam me up, Scottie!" I feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone or some other kind of alternative universe in the past few months and I don't see it getting any better any time soon. 2010 and 2012 can't come soon enough for me.

Bob K
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14 posted 04-05-2009 12:31 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Denise,

          I understand that you generally don't like Obama.  I have no idea what advice he was given by his protocol folks.  I have no idea if the "unmistakable bow" photographed in the American Thinker is in fact an unmistakable bow or something else.  I am actually waiting to be upset.  I wasn't particularly upset when President Bush was photographed literally holding hands and kissing the same guy because that was the local custom.  Whatever my feelings about President Bush, and they were generally not good, I felt that he had a right to make his own decisions about these things.  I have the same basic notion about President Obama.  I'm in fact actually concerned about the guy's policy decisions, just as I was about Bush's.

     In the meantime, I'm not sure that I feel trusting about American Thinker as a trustworthy source until I have a look at two of their recent articles, "In Defense of Discrimination" and "The Soros Doctrine in Obama Foreign Policy."  I look forward to reading them myself, but to me they sound as though the site is somewhat other than objective, and may even have some points to make at the expense of the truth.  Maybe not, of course, but the objectivity seems questionable.  And what, for heaven's sake is "The Soros Doctrine?"

Sincerely, Bob Kaven

moonbeam
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15 posted 04-05-2009 03:57 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
cling to our guns and religion

Says it all really, doesn't it.

..............

I agree Denise, in Obama's case (as in many others) age in years has nothing to do with experience or how savvy he is.  He may be "young" but he's very smart, very aware.  You are very lucky to have him.
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16 posted 04-05-2009 07:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

We would be happy to share our luck with you, moonbeam. Actually, we will when his policies begin affecting your domicile...which they will.
Denise
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17 posted 04-05-2009 07:42 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

You don't have to rely on the American Thinker's photos, Bob. There is also a video taken by a television crew, probably a local British crew, taken of the meet 'n' greet prior to the G20.

Yeah, I remember all that hubbub when Bush was holding the arm/hand of the king when they were walking on the ranch during a visit. The press couldn't get enough of it. Bush's people said he was just helping the king traverse some unsteady terrain. It sounded plausible to me. But whatever, at least it wasn't a sign of submission as is a bow.

I wish he were yours too, moonbeam. But as Michael says, our luck will soon make its way to you.
Bob K
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18 posted 04-05-2009 03:59 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Denise,

           Didn't look that way to me.  It looked like the customary arabic hand-holding between men, which is fine with me.  It's a matter of custom and nothing else.  The kissing is also an arab custom, which is fine with me.  In both cases Bush had a right to determine his own approach to protocol, though his public relations seemed pretty lame.  Hand in hand is not how you help someone over rough ground; there's not enough support, and you can't get your back into it if there's actually a need, can you?

     And what is the nice part of discrimination, anyway?  And the Soros doctrine, What might that be?  This [i]American Thinker[i] sounds like a real non mainstream media winner alright.

     If you're upset about Saudi Arabia, and I do think you have every right in the world to be upset about Saudi Arabia for many reasons, including the form of government you mentioned and the way they treat women, which I suspect might be as upsetting to you as much as it is to me, how about some thoughts about what sort of policy the U.S. should follow in relationship to that country?  And toward the middle east in general.

     Bush, I believe, muffed his relationship with the Saudis, and Obama may be in danger of doing the same, though not by bowing.  You may not have noticed, but after all this time in Iraq, we have managed to keep Iraqi oil off the market.  Remember how the early war predictions said that we'd be paid back by the flood of Iraqi oil let loose on the market?  No Iraqi oil, and it's probably the second largest reserve of oil in the world.  Kept off the market while oil prices here went through the roof, money went into the pockets of oil companies and OPEC, with the Saudis at the head.

     I don't recall Bush raising any big fuss, but then we don't know if President Obama will either, and what the policy is going to be like there.

     Perhaps you might consider that this bowing brouhaha is a sideshow to distract us from the real issues over there about how we're going to deal with oil and energy policy?
You might have something that will break your financial back to worry about.  Mismanagement of the Saudis has already gone a long way in that direction so far, and continued mismanagement of the Saudis will probably not get us out of the energy bind we're in any more quickly.  The faster we're off oil, the better.

     Hope everything's going splendidly with the grandkids.  My wife and I are having a crop of grand-nephews and nieces show up and they are heart-meltingly wonderful.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
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19 posted 04-05-2009 04:32 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Actually Mike Mr Brown claims that he was the one who started Obama on this track - after all it's him (Brown) who is busy saving the world.  Don't worry, we are being subjected to the same poker game that you are, but perhaps we don't have as much to lose .

Denise
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20 posted 04-05-2009 05:10 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I saw all the grandkids earlier today and all are doing fine, Bob. Thanks for the well wishes. And I'm glad that you are enjoying your crop of little ones!

The American Thinker and their views on anything have nothing to do with my bringing this link here. Nor do the policies of Saudi Arabia, nor the oil situation. I wanted to show the video of Obama bowing to the Saudi king. In my opinion that is a sign of submission and not something that one head of state ever does to another. He is smart enough to know that. My question remains, why would he do something like that? And I don't agree with your assessment that there is a bruhaha about it going on. The MSM hasn't uttered a peep. Most Americans still don't even know it happened. Only a couple of alternative news organizations on the web reported it. The kind of news organizations that maybe Obama would one day like to declare a cyber threat to national security? He'd certainly have the authority to do so if that current bill is passed with its vague language.

Moonbeam, maybe since Obama declared the EU the leader of the free world during his townhall in France (I wonder how many Americans heard that?), and said Americans had been arrogant, dismissive and even derisive in their attitudes toward Europe, maybe Brown is the real leader of the free world!
Grinch
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21 posted 04-05-2009 06:53 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
The kind of news organizations that maybe Obama would one day like to declare a cyber threat to national security? He'd certainly have the authority to do so if that current bill is passed with its vague language.


Actually that isnít correct Denise, heíd have the ability to authorise the isolation of a government or critical infrastructure system or network that had been compromised by a cyber attack. The proposed bill is pretty clear on that point, you posted the relevant section in the other thread.

The President -
(2) may declare a cybersecurity emergency and
order the limitation or shutdown of Internet traffic
to and from any compromised Federal government
or United States critical infrastructure information
system or network;

Bob K
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22 posted 04-05-2009 09:46 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Denise,

          I read this as a sign of deference rather than submission.  I would bow to quite a few people as a sign of deference, and have.  If they think that it is submission, they are mistaken, and I think they would know that.  

     Given the facts of the current oil situation, and the way that we are pretty much at the mercy of the oil companies and of OPEC and of Saudi Arabia in so many ways, I'd be willing to hear a case they we are in fact subservient and that we may be fooling ourselves.  In which case, neither your dislike for the facts nor mine are very much to the point, and we've just fought a war to keep Iraqi oil off the market, to keep oil scarce, to keep OPEC and the Saudis in an obscene position of power.  This is no doubt somehow the fault of the Democrats.

     Myself, I think there is something to be said for the scenario I painted in the paragraph just above, albeit somewhat exaggerated. Alas, not so exaggerated as I would hope it might be.

     Do you know anything about Prince Bandar, sometimes jokingly called Bandar Bush?  

moonbeam
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23 posted 04-06-2009 03:41 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
maybe Brown is the real leader of the free world!

If you are right Denise then you really have something to be worried about!
Denise
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24 posted 04-07-2009 04:07 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The wording is too vague, Grinch, and gives too much authority into the hands of one man with no checks and balances. Does your U.K. version give such authority to the Prime Minister?

It's a shame that the politicians in Washington keep us dependent on foreign oil, Bob. It certainly doesn't have to be that way.

I think I may have heard the name of the Prince, but I'm not familiar with him.
 
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