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Passions in Poetry

"For God's sake, rescue them!"

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Huan Yi
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75 posted 01-09-2009 11:43 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“It would not be hard to get "several testimonies" stating that Jews eat barbequed Muslims for breakfast.”

I think it might be in
the Protocols of the Elders of Zion . . .


Also don’t forget:


“The anti-Semitic blood libel has appeared throughout the Muslim and Arab world with gruesome accounts and depictions of Jews murdering non-Jews and using their blood for ritual purposes.

An episode of the anti-Semitic television series, Ash Shatat (“The Diaspora”), shows a heinous dramatization of the killing of a Christian child by a rabbi and the use of his blood to make matzah. The program is a Syrian production and was first aired in October and November 2003 by the Lebanon-based satellite television network Al-Manar, which is owned by the terrorist organization Hezbollah. Al-Manar is widely available to viewers across the Muslim and Arab world and around the world. The closing credits of the programs give special thanks to various government ministries in Syria, including the security ministry, the culture ministry, the Damascus Police Command and the Department of Antiquities and Museums.

The Saudi government daily, Ar-Riyadh, ran a two-part article entitled “The Jewish Holiday of Purim” by Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma of King Faysal University in Al-Dammam, on March 10 and March 12, 2002 which claimed that Jews murder Muslim or Christian children and drain their blood to make pastries for the holiday of Purim."

  http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/E38717B3-A4A6-4D8A-8568-908A1 90645FD,213018C9-567C-418C-BDEA-1CBDA8F58810,frameless.htm

I've found this Purim recipe repeated elsewhere.

.
moonbeam
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76 posted 01-09-2009 01:23 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
No, what keeps conflicts alive for decades and centuries is the fact that no one fights to the finish. Israel was attacked by multiple countries and polished them off in less than a week.



Ahh yes, that would be the end all conflict with the "nuke, or as you so anaesthetically put it "polish off",  any part of the world that doesn't agree with us" syndrome.

If I didn't know you were joking and simply trying to pull chains, I'd be horrified.  As it is, it was a joke in rather bad taste given what this thread is about.
JenniferMaxwell
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77 posted 01-09-2009 02:37 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

John, as despicable as the article you quoted is, it pales in comparison to what’s been happening in Gaza since December 27th.  The blood of Palestinian children is running in the streets, there’s no safe haven for them anywhere in Gaza. I don’t know whether you’ve seen the videos and stills, but the devastation is so horrific, nothing can ever justify it. Israel has now started targeting journalists and blowing up tv stations, a contravention of international law, to prevent the world from seeing the bloodbath stemming from the ground invasion.

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (01-11-2009 10:10 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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78 posted 01-09-2009 03:11 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Guess you were right, Jeff, you just can’t trust all videos reflect the truth. IDF officers admit there was no gunfire from the Gaza school they shelled killing 40+ civilians, many of the children, and that the images they tried to pass off as being from that event were actually taken in 2007 when the school was abandoned. So explain to me again, why are we funding and supplying liars and war criminals?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html

Huan Yi
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79 posted 01-09-2009 03:12 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Israel has now started targeting journalists and blowing up tv stations"


To what purpose,
or are they just idiots
who want to show the world
how really bad they are?

.
moonbeam
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80 posted 01-09-2009 03:37 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

"Israel has now started targeting journalists and blowing up tv stations"


What purpose?
Presumably they are just idiots
who want to hide from the world
how really bad they are?
Huan Yi
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81 posted 01-09-2009 05:17 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Either way,
they're not that stupid.

.
JenniferMaxwell
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82 posted 01-09-2009 05:56 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Even though Israel knew the station's GPS coordinates and had given assurances it would not be attacked, Israeli troops hit the building with rocket fire, wounding two, and knocking out satellite transmission equipment on the roof. Very much like the school massacre, they knew the coordinates but fired on it anyway. There is no safe place in Gaza, it's a free fire zone.
Stephanos
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83 posted 01-09-2009 10:25 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
1.5 million inhabitants of Gaza were being starved, as the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food had found that acute malnutrition in Gaza was on the same scale as in the poorest nations in the southern Sahara, with more than half of all Palestinian families eating only one meal a day.

rocket firing was soon stopped and there was an increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel. Yet the increase was to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels.

I find it puzzling that food can't get in, but there's no end to the importation of rockets.  Seems like the Arab nations aren't really concerned about the people, else they would be importing humanitarian aid.  They thrive on the appearance of victimization by Israel, the proof being weaponry gets in in great quantities, but not food.

Stephen
JenniferMaxwell
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84 posted 01-09-2009 10:40 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Food and humanitarian aid was indeed available, and in vast quantities, but delivery into Gaza was blocked by Israel. During the time of the most recent truce, when there were no rockets being fired, Israel allowed only 15% - 25% of regular food and humanitarian aid deliveries through the gates. Part of that truce agreement was that Israel would restore deliveries to normal levels. They didn't. They failed to live up to their part of the truce agreement.

Now there are an estimated 750,000 Palestinians without running water let alone food. Being a nurse, I'm sure you're more than aware of how long a person can live without water and the consequences of drinking contaminated water. Also, the sanitation facilities are failing due to the lack of electricity. Israel is creating a breeding ground for disease and epidemics that will kill many who manage to survive the slaughter, children and the infirm first.

"The United Nations suspended aid on Friday after a clearly designated UN truck carrying aid was shelled, despite it having received a clearance from the Israeli army. The driver of the truck was killed in the attack while another UN worker was wounded. The incident was one of a number of attacks by the Israeli army involving UN personnel and facilities that have occurred since the current offensive began." http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/2411cd3571b4f088/id/451846/cs/1/

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (01-09-2009 11:12 PM).]

Stephanos
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85 posted 01-09-2009 11:45 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Jennifer,

It is a sad plight.  I'm just noting that the Arab nations smuggle much weaponry through the tunnels under the Gaza-Egyptian border, but no humanitarian aid?

Stephen    
JenniferMaxwell
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86 posted 01-10-2009 12:03 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Think about it, there are 1.5 million people in Gaza. Most of them aren't militants. Food and aid was being smuggled in through the tunnels, but not nearly enough to meet the need caused by the blockade. It's pretty hard to feed 1.5 million people when you have to carry sacks of rice and grain on your back. Israel has blown up those tunnels now and restricted aid deliveries to three hours a day. Hungry people have become starving people and most of the world turns a blind eye to what can justifiably be called, collective punishment.

I saw a someone in the Tel Aviv protest march carrying a sign that said something like, the way to eliminate Hamas is to give the people of Gaza hope. There is no hope when you're imprisoned and being slowly starved to death.



threadbear
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87 posted 01-10-2009 12:10 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Naw.....in military parliance it's called:

cutting off supply lines

and it's been done for thousands of years by every army.  It's the most common military strategy out there.

You can exclaim: humanitarian this and that, but it's a war strategy that focuses on ending things quicker rather than longer.  
JenniferMaxwell
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88 posted 01-10-2009 12:17 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

So starving civilians is ok with you, Jeff? This is not a case of cutting off military supply lines, Israel is denying the whole population of Gaza the basic necessities of life.
Huan Yi
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89 posted 01-10-2009 12:26 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"So starving civilians is ok with you, Jeff?"

Keep in mind these civilians
voted Hamas, (an organization that has
but one purpose; the annihilation
of Israel), into power.   What’s happening
on the East Bank; nothing.

.
threadbear
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90 posted 01-10-2009 12:43 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Jennifer, oh heck now, human suffering on any level is NEVER ok with me.  I HATE war.  I'm a peacenik at heart.  I'll proudly wear a peace symbol, and do on shirts occasionally.  IF peace is possible ... that's the big question.  
  
    I hate war, ... but I understand it.  What's distasteful is an 'unnecessary war.'  Yeah, before you say it: Iraq, i.e.    Surely, if the United States has learned anything from the Bush years, we have learned what a 'rush to judgement' can lead to.  I believe that's the big lesson of the Bush years.  Learn it, memorize it, live it.  

  One thing is for sure:  Hamas shouldn't have started a war if they weren't prepared for it, and obviously they weren't.  They're paying a horrible price for not planning ahead.  Hamas is firing guns blindly at the Israeli's and then asking, later, too late, (something like this):
"Hey, Ahmed, what will we do if it actually HITS somebody?"
"We'll worry about that later, Abdullah.  
  Keep firing!"

Here's the real option, Jennifer:  either let the supply line cutting have its effect, OR watch the war triple in length.  In terms of human suffering which is better?  To be honest, I'm not sure myself.  

JenniferMaxwell
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91 posted 01-10-2009 01:03 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The US voted in Bush for a second term after he started a war that killed 100,000 or so people in Iraq, so that gives the Iraqis the right to blow up civilians in the US?

There was no freedom for the people of Gaza before Hamas, their every move was restricted and controlled by the Israelis. Hamas offered them hope, and actually managed to deliver on it in the form of public services, until the Israelis, backed by the US, decided the way to eliminate Hamas was to turn the population of Gaza against Hamas by tightening the blockade. That's collective punishment, it's illegal under international law, and a war crime when you're the occupying power as Isreal undeniably is.
JenniferMaxwell
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92 posted 01-10-2009 01:11 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Here's a clue, Hamas didn't start this war. By their own admission, Israel started planning this war six months ago during the time of the truce and after Hamas had stopped firing rockets.

Once again, what's being cut isn't military supply lines, it's food and humanitarian aid to the civilian population, and that's a war crime.
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93 posted 01-10-2009 01:20 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Look...it's all based on military strategy, and Israel probably has the best strategic commanders around.  As you can imagine, they are constantly challenged, and up to date.  

I told you i studied Israel, and one thing they do effectively is, in order,
1a) strike early, strike hard before enemy gets setup (some call them 'pre-emp' strikes
1) tear up the opposition with an airstrike
2) make them fight on as many sides as possible, creating a box.
3) cut off re-supply lines
4) cut off retreat lines
5) systematically root out all insurgents sector by sector, then securing the sector.
6) gradually, very gradually, back out while leaving behind 'protectors' in the old war zones.  They're not like SS, but they do check random credentials constantly, and within seconds of finding insurgent, a half of a dozen vehicles will converge to diffuse the situation.  
7) and lastly, they DO prosecute their captives as 'terrorists' and not 'criminals'

What they are doing is NO war crime.  Geez.  ONLY if Israel refuses to medically treat their HOSTAGES only, would that be a war crime.   They don't control the city- that's ludicrous, Jennifer, to even suggest that during conflict, they are responsible for getting aid to their enemies on the OTHER side of the lines.  
---------------------------------------------------
Now that you bring it up, let's look at the list of what constitutes a war crime.  The term is bandied about haphazardly, and I think it's time we review exactly what is involved in a War Crime:

War crimes are defined in the statute that established the International Criminal Court, which includes:

Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, such as:
Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health
Torture or inhumane treatment
Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property
Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power
Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial
Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer
Taking hostages

The following acts as part of an international conflict:
Directing attacks against civilians
Directing attacks against humanitarian workers or UN peacekeepers
Killing a surrendered combatant
Misusing a flag of truce
Settlement of occupied territory
Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory
Using poison weapons
Using civilians as shields
Using child soldiers


[This message has been edited by threadbear (01-10-2009 04:47 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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94 posted 01-10-2009 01:31 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You forgot a few things on your first list like blowing up safe houses, medical centers, aid lorries, schools, paramedics, children, women, power plants and other assorted war crimes.

Good night, Jeff, wouldn't want to take you away from polishing up your peace sign.

PS - I remember Lebanon

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95 posted 01-10-2009 01:37 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Well, have a good evening, Jennifer.

I'll be vegging out on football tomorrow.  
Oh, by the way, my better half has started calling Barrack H. Obama:

Bahama!  LOL   love it!    (hehe, sorry...had to share that with ya!)
moonbeam
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96 posted 01-10-2009 04:12 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Stephen and Huan, you seem to have problem distinguishing the Palestinian Stephen and Huans from Hamas.  

The "Arab nations" didn't choose to smuggle arms in preference to food, Hamas did.  Using wide all-embracing statements like "Arab nations" is precisely the sort of rhetoric that feeds hate and negative nationalistic thinking at the expense of the love that an individual ordinary Israeli feels for an individual ordinary Palestinian.  

And yes, Hamas (a killing organisation) was voted in by ordinary people.  Sections of America and the western media would love to portray that as the evil Arab Nations voting in an appropriately evil government.  If you have the sense to dismiss that as bullshit, maybe you then have the sense to go on and ask what the real reasons were.
Huan Yi
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97 posted 01-10-2009 05:24 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“There was no freedom for the people of Gaza before Hamas”

Now that’s an interesting idea compared to:


““We hope that Hamas keeps on inventing new ways of killing the people so the rest of the world knows the truth and the reality of Hamas and how vicious they really are," said Rami, 35.””


Fatah, Hamas Battle in Gaza Threatens Government
All Things Considered, June 12, 2007

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10988462


"and ask what the real reasons were"

Maybe it was:

""the reality of Hamas and how vicious they really are,""

.
Stephanos
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98 posted 01-10-2009 07:46 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Moonbeam,

I'm not also so dense as to not know that many of the more "legitimate" governments of the middle east support terror against Israel.  Israel is not a welcome nation in the MidEast, period.

It may be rhetorical, but it happens to be true.

And I don't think bombing schools et al (as horrible as that situation is) violates the Geneva Convention if military aggression is being executed from these places.  As someone else pointed out, such is perfectly in line with the approach of Hamas / Hezbolah.


Stephen
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99 posted 01-10-2009 08:13 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

It just astounds me how many folks on the Left still stick up for the Palestinians.

[This message has been edited by threadbear (01-10-2009 09:15 PM).]

 
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