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Sympathy For Blago

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Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
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Whoville


50 posted 12-20-2008 04:08 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
What am I asking for that is unconstitutional, Grinch?


The Constitution has within it a process to challenge a Presidents status, for some strange reason I donít quite understand you want Obama to short circuit the system just to satisfy your doubt - it doesnít work like that.

Your Constitution says that Congress will confirm his status when the votes of the electoral college are presented. Why not uphold that part of the Constitution Denise, instead of demanding the right to something that you arenít afforded under the Constitution. In fact why not wave your patriotic flag for Obama and his right to due process afforded him under the Constitution? Why not fight for his right NOT to present his birth certificate when itís his Constitutional right not to do so?

I donít think you really care about the Constitution Denise, if you did you wouldnít be demanding that someone give up their rights under it just to satisfy your curiosity.

Denise
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51 posted 12-20-2008 04:38 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

You are missing my point Grinch. I am saying that in light of all of the red flags about whether or not he is Constitutionally eligible, someone in authority should look into it and make a determination, using the process outlined in the Constitution, to insure that the Constitutional requirements are met. Is it not my Constitutional right to petition those in our government to investigate a possible violation of the Constitution when they are charged with upholding it? And Congress can confirm OR object to the Electoral College vote Grinch. They have that option. So my requesting them to investigate, and then object if they find evidence that he isn't qualified, is in no way a disrespect of the process.

Grinch
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52 posted 12-20-2008 05:39 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Iím not missing your point Denise I understand what youíre saying completely.

You want to force someone to do something he doesnít have to do.
You think itís a good idea to bypass the process laid out in the Constitution.
You want to take away somebodyís rights in the misguided belief that it somehow upholds your rights.
You want to uphold one part of the Constitution by tearing up another part.

Itís your constitutional right to petition your representative in government to challenge Obamaís status in writing when the first vote for him is cast by the electoral college, but thatís as far it goes Denise. You donít get to demand that someone looks at his birth certificate before then, or even after then. Nor can you force them to act outside the provisions of the constitution and do anything before the first vote is cast.

If you donít think Obama is a natural born citizen why not write to your representative and ask him\her to make a formal challenge. Iíd love to hear the response - my moneyís on a polite but definite no.

Denise
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53 posted 12-20-2008 08:24 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Grinch, our representatives are not a part of the Electoral College. It is a 3 step process:

1. The General Election
2. The Electoral College Vote
3. Ratification, in Congress, by our representatives, of the Electoral College Vote.

No, you have no idea what I am saying, in that you keep asserting the same things over and over again that I have already addressed. So I won't waste any more of my time or your time in the endeavor.

You would have lost your money, by the way.

Grinch
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54 posted 12-21-2008 05:46 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
No, you have no idea what I am saying, in that you keep asserting the same things over and over again that I have already addressed.


Pot - kettle - black?

As long as you keep asserting that Obama should show someone his birth certificate or that an investigation should take place Iíll keep reminding you that neither are part of the process as laid out in your Constitution.

One member of the Senate and one member of the house of Representatives need to present, in writing, a challenge to Obamaís status. My money is fairly safe Denise because nobody in their right mind is going to do that, for the simple reason that when the dust settles and the subsequent vote is counted their political career, and possibly their political party will be damaged beyond repair. The risks are too high and any possible benefits are way too small.

If Iím wrong you have my permission to tell me you told me so when Obama isnít inaugurated.

Denise
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55 posted 12-21-2008 10:59 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I didn't say that he wouldn't be inaugurated, Grinch. And I didn't say that anyone in Congress would actually cast a vote in objection. That wasn't what you said you would be willing to wager your money on though.

I still don't agree with your contention that petitioning our representatives to investigate and cast a vote in objection, if after they investigate they find he is not eligible, is unconstitutional. They are merely being petitioned to utilize the constitutional process. They couldn't cast a vote in objection on unsubstantiated rumors. They would have to have an investigation and any investigation into his citizenship status would of necessity require them to subpoena his birth documents and any other records that would shed light on that status, since it would be his citizenship status that is in question. I know most of them think they walk on water, but they aren't powerful enough to make a determination without an examination of the evidence, I wouldn't think!

But I do agree that's not likey to happen. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen, though.

Grinch
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56 posted 12-21-2008 11:22 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
That wasn't what you said you would be willing to wager your money on though.


I think youíll find that this is what I said:
quote:
why not write to your representative and ask him\her to make a formal challenge. Iíd love to hear the response - my moneyís on a polite but definite no.


My moneyís safe unless you can find a representative stupid enough to make a formal challenge.

Denise
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57 posted 12-21-2008 11:29 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Your money is not safe since I did not get a polite or definite no! Politicians, more often than not, tend to say one thing and then do as they please.
Grinch
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58 posted 12-21-2008 12:23 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


So you got a yes!

Which idiot did you write to?

Denise
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59 posted 12-21-2008 01:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I didn't say I got a yes either, Grinch. I got a letter from one of them thanking me for my concerns, as he is always appreciative of hearing the concerns of his constituents and to take their concerns under advisement. Right to the trash can, I'm sure!

From the other two I never heard anything, not even an acknowledgement of receipt of my letter. A fine example of representative government at its finest!

But you lose by virtue of the fact that I did not receive a 'polite but definite no' from any of them. Now how much money did I win?
Grinch
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60 posted 12-21-2008 01:39 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I got a letter from one of them thanking me for my concerns, as he is always appreciative of hearing the concerns of his constituents and to take their concerns under advisement.


Sounds fairly polite to me.

quote:
Right to the trash can, I'm sure!


And if thatís not a definite no Iíll eat hay with a donkey!

Denise
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61 posted 12-21-2008 02:44 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Polite, yes, a definite no, no, not according to the letter itself, which is what you had wagered on. (I am a literalist, if you haven't discovered that yet!)

And I can only assume that it went straight to the trash can. I have no way of confirming that.

So start munching away!
Grinch
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62 posted 12-21-2008 03:34 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I have no way of confirming that


Are you sure.


Denise
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63 posted 12-21-2008 04:41 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yep!
Bob K
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64 posted 12-22-2008 04:11 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Denise,

           If there is a legal challenge, Obama will reply.  If not. you should pardon me, but  he should not respond beyond what he has done.  It is one thing to cooperate, it's another to make yourself a target and to cooperate in the process.  I haven't seen any evidence that anything he might do would stem your hostility toward the man, nor the hostility of those who seem to enjoy bringing these sorts of charges.  This sort of thing is what he will have to face throughout his administration, and it will skip about from one set of accusations to another, predictably.  Right wing rage will not abate.

     The smartest thing that Obama can do is hire a terrific team of lawyers, and have them deliver the absolute minimum satisfaction to any of these attempts at character assassination as it it possible to give.  I don't mean he should engage in Schadenfreude at the discomfort of those who try to attack him, merely that he treat it as part of doing Presidential business.

     About policy, he should be absolutely transparent.  Heaven knows he'll have trouble enough with that, what with folks on both the left and the right having legitimate bones to pick with his policy and procedure decisions.  He has a history of infuriating the left as well as the right going back to his days running the Law Review at Harvard, and with his request for the California Minister who helped Proposition 8 repeal gay marriage out here to give an invocation (at his swearing in?  at some other important event?) he's already managed to upset some of his gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered allies.

     Republican lite, in some ways, but I think a decent enough guy, even if you don't.

     As for the New Zealand quotes, I find the photo-copies  poorly reproduced on the internet to be slightly unconvincing in and of themselves.  Beyond that, I've seem mistakes made in high school newspapers and in The New York Times about details like that, and so have you.  Also, Obama ran as a democrat in that election, in case it slipped your notice, and to imagine that he was a secret member of another Party at the same time leads us right back into the Communist witch-hunting that  darn near destroyed the Republican party for fifteen years in presidential Politics and much longer in Congressional politics.  If you really want to go there, fine.  I think it hurts the Republicans far worse than it does Obama, though, because it sounds very much like Joe McCarthy looking for secret fellow travelers.

     I'm a Democrat myself, and much of The New Party platform as I saw it  quoted seemed pretty sensible to me.  As does Bernie Sanders, for that matter.  Obama's interests seem much further to the right to me.  Nowhere near your neck of the woods, mind you, or Mike's, but actually closer to the center of things.

Good luck, though, Denise.  And I was happy to hear you'd had some time with the grandkids, and that you'd had the energy to keep up with them at least cameo appearance style.

All my best, Bob Kaven
Denise
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65 posted 12-22-2008 09:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Obama has always struck me as someone with something to hide from the very beginning. And his actions in response to the natural born question, sparked after his grandmother and half-sister and half-brother in Kenya said he was born in Kenya, have only increased my distrust of him as an open and above-board person. If they were fibbing out of a sense of pride, and created a tempest in a teapot, then he could have easily nipped it in the bud by producing evidence to the contrary.

He doesn't have to hire lawyers if the issue does proceed to a legal challenge. He already has hired them, three law firms worth of them.

I was never taken in by his smooth rhetoric, in which he said absolutely nothing, that caused the masses to swoon and journalists to get either tingling feelings up their leg, or to confess with wide-eyed awe that they found it hard to remain objective in his presence.

Due to a practice known as Fusion, Obama ran as a Democrat and as a New Party candidate and garnered the votes from both that enabled him to beat his opponent. The practice is now against the law in most states, including Illinois, but still allowed in a few.

I am not hostile to the man. I just don't trust him. And I don't agree with a single policy that he has advocated so far, and I will stand against and speak out against policies that he advances with which I disagree, as I'm sure most conservatives will do. I wouldn't characterize that as attacking the man, though, just his policies.

And thank you, Bob. Yes, I had a wonderful time with the grandkids. And on Christmas I will get to see all of them! Controlled chaos is a good description of our holiday gatherings!  
Huan Yi
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Waukegan


66 posted 12-31-2008 12:09 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-burris-31-dec31,0,1367315.column


Well, 2009 will start out entertaining . . .

.

Denise
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67 posted 12-31-2008 06:56 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It sure looks that way!
Huan Yi
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Waukegan


68 posted 01-29-2009 08:15 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


So now
he's gone

And who then
will remember him
absent bored media
after


.
Balladeer
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69 posted 01-30-2009 12:52 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

He may show up on Jeopardy one day, John
 
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