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Sympathy For Blago

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Balladeer
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25 posted 12-14-2008 10:01 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Grinch, Obama initially said that neither he or any members of his team had contact with Blago. That has now been amended to "contact but no attempt to influence."

I don't say that Obama was mixed up in it but Emanuel gave Blago the list of candidates Obama wanted so one may assume that he got that list from Obama, which would indicate Obama knew that Emanuel would be giving it to Blago, which makes the "no team contact" remark by Obama false.

As I said, Obama doesn't need this and should get it resolved as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be headed in that direction.....and I hope Emanuel isn't too fond of his head.

Pressure builds on Obama to release his Blagojevich contacts

In case you're wondering about that list President-elect Obama promised a few days ago to release in "a few days" detailing all of his office's contacts with accused Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich about the vacant U.S. Senate seat, the Republican National Committee would like to fan your doubts.

Saturday, as the governor met with a high-profile Chicago defense attorney, the RNC released a short videotape (see below) detailing some of Obama's connections to and statements about the governor, who is allegedly on FBI wiretaps trying to sell his nomination to the highest bidder.

Both Obama and U.S. Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald have said there's no evidence of the ex-senator's involvement in the alleged political auction. And Obama has denied speaking to the governor or his office on the Senate vacancy.

Democratic President-elect Barack Obama and Illinois fellow Democratic Governor Rod Blagojevich now accused of auctioning off Obama's vacant U.S. Senate seat in happier times

But the Chicago Tribune reported Saturday that Obama's new White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, did indeed have contacts with the governor's office, providing a list of replacement nominees acceptable to Obama and then later adding one more.

What's puzzled some people and raised suspicions among others is Emanuel's refusal to talk about it (reportedly physically pushing one reporter's tape recorder away and having a verbal altercation with another) and the delay on Obama's part in releasing the promised diary of contacts.
From a practical point of view, if everything is above board, what's to hide?

From a political communications and PR point of view, the atypically clumsy silence and delay creates doubts among even some Democrats, an information vacuum that opponents seek to fill with items like this video below and that has turned what could have been a one- or two-day state scandal story into nearly a week-long saga now involving a new national leader who promised to change the way the people's business is done.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-rahm-blag.html

Obama said Thursday he had never spoken to Blagojevich about the Senate vacancy and was "confident that no representatives" of his had engaged in any deal making over the seat with the governor or his team. He also pledged Thursday that in the "next few days," he would explain what contacts his staff may have had with the governor's office about the Senate vacancy.
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-usrahm145965069dec14,0,445084.story
Grinch
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26 posted 12-14-2008 10:20 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Obama initially said that neither he or any members of his team had contact with Blago.


Iíve read several reports where he said that he wasnít involved in any shady deals, and a few more where he said that he didnít believe that any of his staff were either, with a pledge to collate and release the details of all contacts. I havenít read any reports where he said that his staff had no contact at all but if he did indeed say that then Iíd have to agree with you, heís obviously an idiot and not fit to be President.

Denise
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27 posted 12-14-2008 12:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It seems that one of Obama's talents is creating information vacuums. It's becoming a theme.
moonbeam
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28 posted 12-14-2008 01:48 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Heh, I notice a recurring theme hereabouts too Denise
Huan Yi
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29 posted 12-14-2008 09:22 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Mike,

Obama's wife got a very nice raise
once he hit political big time.

That's the way it works here.
.
Balladeer
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30 posted 12-14-2008 09:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Blago's father-in-law was a big-time alderman and, as things go there, that means he's very well off and paved the way for his son-in-law.

We all know how things work there......knowing it, though, didn't keep one out of the Oval Office.
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31 posted 12-15-2008 03:40 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"At the direction of the President-elect, a review of Transition staff contacts with Governor Blagojevich and his office has been conducted and completed and is ready for release. That review affirmed the public statements of the President-elect that he had no contact with the governor or his staff, and that the President-elect's staff was not involved in inappropriate discussions with the governor or his staff over the selection of his successor as US Senator.

Also at the President-elect's direction, Gregory Graig, counsel to the Transition, has kept the US Attorney's office informed of this fact-gathering process in order to ensure our full cooperation with the investigation.

In the course of those discussions, the US Attorney's office requested the public release of the Transition review be deferred until the week of December 22, in order not to impede their investigation of the governor. The Transition has agreed to this revised timetable for release."

Balladeer
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32 posted 12-15-2008 07:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Excellent. It is also customary to include a link when quoting news items.
Huan Yi
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33 posted 12-15-2008 08:13 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Rod Blagojevich expressed his initial
priority as taking some of the financial
pressure off of his family . . .

Remember the Clintons left the Presidency
basically broke because of legal expenses.

Yes, Rod was stupid, but evil?

I wonder if some can imagine what lenghts
some men are willing to go to to preserve
a certain lifestyle for their families. . .

I know of one, who failing,
took his own life.

In Japan, so many middle managers,
(not able to face the sense of disgrace,
after losing their jobs, finding no other),
killed themeselves that it lowered the numbers
for life expectancy for the entire nation.

It's easy to be brave
when th only one to suffer
the cost is yourself.  It's
different when the cost threatens
your family.  More than one despot
has understood and used that. . .

.
.
JenniferMaxwell
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34 posted 12-15-2008 08:19 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Perhaps, Balladeer, I was just paraphasing something I heard on Good Morning America.

Denise
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35 posted 12-15-2008 08:37 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

But didn't someone have to be in discussion with Blagojevich, Jennifer, for the presentation of the acceptable list from Obama by one of his staff, and then for Blagojevich to explode with anger on tape at Obama for being told by that person that nothing but appreciation would be forthcoming for a selection from that list?  It seems logical to assume that Blajojevich requested something in exchange for considering someone from Obama's list in order to be told that nothing but appreciation would be given.

It may not have been an inappropriate discussion on the part of the staff member, but certainly on Blogojevich's part, which makes it an inappropriate and an illegal discussion that should have been reported to the authorities by that staff person. Maybe the staff person did report it. At least I hope so.
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36 posted 12-16-2008 02:36 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




Dear Mike,

           Thank you for your open-minded thoughts about Obama at this point.  It's good to see you putting politics aside and crossing your fingers.  I too am crossing my fingers and hoping things will go well in this potentially difficult transition, and it's good to see you at your most generous here.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
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37 posted 12-16-2008 11:32 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

My mistake, Jennifer. Normally, quotation marks used denote a quotation. Thanks for clearing it up.

Thanks, Bob. The well-being of the country has always been my top concern, as I know it has yours, also.
Huan Yi
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38 posted 12-17-2008 08:28 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"New York Assemblyman N. Nick Perry, the House Democratic whip, called Kennedy a "neatly packaged" candidate for the governor, who could bring in cash . . .

Perry said Kennedy would also be "tremendously helpful" to Paterson  . . ."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/17/kennedy-kicks-senate-campaign-upstate-new    -york/


.
Bob K
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39 posted 12-17-2008 09:43 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Denise,

          Having spoken with you before about Senator Obama's history, I know that we have discussed the matter of hospital confidentiality. Thus I was startled to find this statement under your signature earlier in this thread:

quote:

It's astonishing that no hospital in Hawaii is clamoring to claim to be the birthplace of the first African-American President in U.S. history! It boggles the mind!



     You were aware at that time that any hospital that revealed content of hospital records was open to lawsuit for violation of Federal Law.  I've generally given the credit to the mothers, myself, and thought the hospitals were sort of secondary.  Hospitals that release medical records are still open to lawsuit, near as I can understand it.

     I have been following your interesting discussion of Senator Obama's birth, and trying my best to stay out of it, respectfully.  When you express shock that there is no hospital in Hawaii willing to breach medical ethics to help you make a rhetorical point, I believe you undermine your creditability.

     I suspect you could give me lessons in the details of HIPAA regulations.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven

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40 posted 12-18-2008 12:06 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't know, Bob, I thought births were a matter of public record and not a confidential medical detail or condition covered under HIPPA laws. But I could be wrong.

In any event I don't think there would be a lawsuit from Obama if one of the hospitals claimed the distinction of being his birthplace. He might even offer to pay for the plaque if they wanted to erect one in honor of the event!
Bob K
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41 posted 12-18-2008 01:17 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Denise,

          Have hospitals released that information about [i]anybody[i] on their own post HIPAA?  If I want a copy of my birth certificate, I must write to the appropriate county agency and send money.  The county doesn't release the data on it's own because it feels like it, even if it is public information.  Some certificates list the Hospital, some don't.  The "public record" you mention suggests that the custodian of the information is not the hospital ó which, as you know, is forbidden from disclosing patient information on penalty of prosecution ó but the government, which has disclosed the information it has, at the request of Senator Obama.

     The fact that somebody has been a patient in a specific hospital or under care of a specific practitioner for whatever reason is confidential unless appropriate legal steps are taken.  I cannot even say that somebody has been in therapy with me without a signed release of information form sitting in front of me or included in the person's case file.  

     In Obama's case, the Birth certificate was released by Obama and was examined by independent fact checkers.  It was also examined by the people who employed the gentleman who authored a book airing charges about Senator Obama's birth and other charges, a Mr. Jerome Corsi, I believe his name was; and Mr. Corsi's publishers found the birth certificate authentic as well.  I will try to get the reference for you.

     It goes without saying that they kept their acknowledgements as limited as humanly possible, but I find that understandable.  I was happy to see that they were gracious enough to acknowledge an error, and hope that I am as gracious with my own.

  If the suit goes forward and isn't thrown out of court, then it will go through whatever testing needs to be done in the future.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven

The reference I mentioned above:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214


     You'll note that the World Net Daily folks attribute the non-release of primary hospital data to Hawaii State Law, while I attributed it to HIPAA.  In either case, however, the legal barrier is there.  Faulting the Hospitals would be unfair.


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42 posted 12-18-2008 04:36 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Bob, two different documents are being talked about. No one has seen the Certificate of Birth that has the hospital and doctor's signature. What has supposedly been seen and verified by factcheck is the Certification of Live Birth.

If HIPPA prevents the hospital from even announcing a birth from 47 years ago, that's fine. I didn't think the law went that far. I still think it's strange that even Obama hasn't disclosed where he was born. We will soon have a President whose place of birth is a State Secret! That gives me the creeps!
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43 posted 12-18-2008 11:15 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


Dear Denise,

           Show me an example of these easily acquired and apparently legal public source documents from Hawaii that you are talking about from anybody since Senator Obama's birth so that I might understand what I should be looking for when I see it, please, Denise.  I know what Senator Obama's Birth Certificate looks like because it looks like mine.  Were somebody to ask me to produce something more complex, I'd have no idea where to look, and would have no need to do so, since  that particular document has been sufficient for all my needs, including passport.  

     I can understand why you might wish to see a person's regular documentation to be clear about citizenship before voting for them as President.  This was not your intention, however, since you did not wish to vote for the man as President.  You were a clear supporter of Senator McCain, whomever you actually voted for.  You tried to reduce the chances of other people voting for Senator Obama by putting forward an argument discounting his legitimacy.  Even now that he has won the Presidency, you try to find a way to prevent him from taking office.

     Ordinary documentation is not enough for you.  You require special documentation be presented under extraordinary circumstances to extraordinary authority, which may or may not satisfy you.  The actual circumstance under which the actual facts will be settled are unlikely, I suspect, to meet with your conditions.  

     I can't ask you to give up your quest for justice.  While we differ in our choice of windmills, we seem to share a fondness for jousting.  I guess I have to encourage you in it, though I disagree with the target here, and wish you the best of luck in a task that I find personally wrongheaded.  Your Grandkids must be seriously lucky.  I can't imagine you would devote attention like this to politics without lavishing ten times that amount on them.

Yours in utter puzzlement, Bob Kaven
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44 posted 12-18-2008 11:55 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I will be seeing the little buggers tomorrow night actually! I don't live as close to them as I did a few months back, but when I get to spend time with them it's wonderful!

You can go to the State of Hawaii website for a clarification of the two differnt documents, and the differences, and even why one is preferable (or even sometimes required in some instances) to the other under certain circumstances.

Have no fear Bob. Your man will be sworn in, qualified or not! I am not able to determine the outcome of an election, much less an inauguration!

Don't mind me. I'm just a bit quirky in that I think we should abide by our Constitution, and with so much mounting evidence that casts doubt that Obama is a natural born citizen, I just think he owes it to the Constitution, that he will be swearing to uphold, and to the citizens, to show that he actually is qualified. And as I said before, I'm not asking him to show ME anything. Just show somebody in authority the official Hawaiin vault copy of his birth certificate that lists the hospital and has the doctor's signature.

[This message has been edited by Denise (12-19-2008 12:01 AM).]

Denise
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45 posted 12-20-2008 10:29 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I had a great time with my grandkids last night! We played Go Fish, Twister (Abigail wisely designated me to be in charge of spinning the wheel!), played with Emily's doll house, colored in their Christmas coloring books and watched iCarly on TV! They cried, literally, in protest, when it was time for bed.

And then I went home and passed out! An 18-hour day is a bit taxing, and more so the older I get!  
Grinch
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46 posted 12-20-2008 12:55 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Don't mind me. I'm just a bit quirky in that I think we should abide by our Constitution


Nowhere in your Constitution does it say that a President elect must present his birth certificate, it says he must be a natural born citizen and then lays out the procedure for challenging his status if it's in doubt. You keep banging on about abiding by the Constitution while at the same time demanding that everyone should ignore it - which do you want Denise?

Denise
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47 posted 12-20-2008 01:15 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'm not suggesting anyone ignore it, Grinch.

What I am asking, in light of all the circumstancial evidence that Obama may not be qualified under the Constitution, is that one of the controlling legal authorities, and at this stage it looks like that would be Congress, look into the matter to resolve the doubt, which in this case would involve them requesting a look at his birth certificate, and any other documents that would shed light on the question of his eligibility. How else would they resolve that doubt? Then, after they have done that, they could go forward and either ratify the Electoral College vote, or raise an objection to ratification, based on the outcome of their investigation. I don't see how my requesting that is advocating ignoring the Constitutional process. I am actually requesting that the Constitutional process be followed.
Grinch
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48 posted 12-20-2008 01:42 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I am actually requesting that the Constitutional process be followed.


The Constitutional process to challenge Obamaís citizenship at this point in time is for two members of Congress to present a written challenge to the first electoral college vote in favour of Obama. At that point Congress will install Biden as President then retire to consider the challenge. There is nothing in your Constitution that demands that they consider a birth certificate as evidence either way or that the President elect must present one.

quote:
which in this case would involve them requesting a look at his birth certificate, and any other documents that would shed light on the question of his eligibility. How else would they resolve that doubt?


If it ever gets that far theyíll interpret the Constitution and make their own minds up, and then it will probably be challenged and put before the Supreme Court whoíll do the same.

Remember McCain? His birth certificate proved that through a technicality he wasnít a natural born citizen but they ignored the certificate and interpreted the Constitution and confirmed that he was eligible. Why shouldnít the same rule apply to Obama or is it only applicable to Republicans, would you be demanding that the letter of law laid out in the constitution be upheld if McCain was the President elect?

Youíre asking for something that isnít in the Constitution Denise while waving a patriotic flag and claiming that anything less would be unconstitutional, which seems a bit hypocritical from where Iím sitting.


Denise
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49 posted 12-20-2008 03:40 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

What am I asking for that is unconstitutional, Grinch? I'm asking those who have sworn to uphold the Constitution to do so. I can't for the life of me see how that makes me hypocritical.

When they 'retire to consider the challenge', wouldn't it be prudent that they review his documentation in order to make an informed decision? It isn't within their scope to interpret the Constitution. That rests with the Supreme Court.

It has been argued by some that McCain was actually natural born in that both his parents were U.S. citizens at his birth and that he was born on a military base, which is considered U.S. soil. But, if his candidacy were challenged on that issue I wouldn't have a problem with letting the process go forward for a Constitutional challenge on the issue.

 
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